Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

out da lough

donalg1 wrote: »

Please do go on as the above doesnt even begin to cover everyone in a fair way. And do the above groups cover all 4million or so people on this Island?

There are more than 4 million people on one of the countries on this island.

There are approximately 6 million people on this island.


The figures for the population of the Republic Of Ireland are compiled by the Central Statistics Office, whose CEO earned over €200,000 a year last year.

By the way, the CEO Of The National Roads Authority earned above the €200,000 public sector "salary cap" last year. By exactly how much his salary exceeded this cap is not disclosed.

Anyway, let's just say that he too earned more than the Prime Minister of Spain.

So we have multiple local authority county and city managers all allegedly looking after roads, and all earning more than the Prime Ministers of many European countries, PLUS a quango whose CEO earns more than any of them, plus a Department of Transport, plus a National Transport Authority, and rather than cut the costs and duplication of effort involved in all of these, the kneejerk reaction is to look for more taxes from people who cannot afford it.

And then when anyone objects, they are accused of going off on a "Sindo type rant," which is ironic, seeing as INM is now controlled by a tax exile!

alastair

golden lane wrote: »

i am not surprised at that.......an overbearing sense of righteousness.....all the time looking down on fellow citizens......

his sweeping grandious statements of overbearing tripe......have proven that he is a long time loser......

trying to display an education that is of no interest to odrinary people.........only shows a lack of respect to those people......i wonder where he learned that from.........

Ignore button for you my ranting friend. Bye!

Dub XV

tayto lover wrote: »

I feel for you. I suffered a wage cut too.
Have you seen the queues in the Hospital waiting-rooms though and the lack of smiles by the overwhelmed staff. I took my grandchild to Drogheda hospital last week and the place was mad. Was there for 5 hours. Not enough nurses working at all and i'd say some of the ones who were working were very close to breaking point. Many people i'd imagine would rather be on the dole than put themselves through that kind of torture. The cuts are in the wrong places.

I took my 5yo to Temple Street 2 months ago.

It was like a cattle market ( I have never been to a catlle market btw for some of the more pedantic posters). Some really ill children there. Out the door literally.

Reminded me of when I took my 14 yo there 6 years ago, or my 19yo when she was under the age of 2.

The shop has always been in ****e.

We have had a terrible Health Service long before the financial crisis would you not agree?

granturismo

The Indo post a sensationalist story, quoting a retired civil servant touting for business as a consultant - this needs a better source.

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

I'm guessing they're pensioners and therefore entitled to reductions that don't generally apply? Kinda pointless example in that case.

My mother is not yet 60.

My father 62

You can't back up your statement.

Dub XV

Also I couldnt care less if they smiled or not as long as they are capable of doing their jobs.

I admire these people. I don't think they decided on this career driven by money.

There are far easier ways to make it.

donalg1

out da lough wrote: »

There are more than 4 million people on one of the countries on this island.

There are approximately 6 million people on this island.


The figures for the population of the Republic Of Ireland are compiled by the Central Statistics Office, whose CEO earned over €200,000 a year last year.

By the way, the CEO Of The National Roads Authority earned above the €200,000 public sector "salary cap" last year. By exactly how much his salary exceeded this cap is not disclosed.

Anyway, let's just say that he too earned more than the Prime Minister of Spain.

So we have multiple local authority county and city managers all allegedly looking after roads, and all earning more than the Prime Ministers of many European countries, PLUS a quango whose CEO earns more than any of them, plus a Department of Transport, plus a National Transport Authority, and rather than cut the costs and duplication of effort involved in all of these, the kneejerk reaction is to look for more taxes from people who cannot afford it.

And then when anyone objects, they are accused of going off on a "Sindo type rant," which is ironic, seeing as INM is now controlled by a tax exile!

And where did you get your figure of 6million from I have never heard of this before, I was always under the impression our population was 3 - 4 million but never 6.

I agree with the rest of your post though as I have previously agreed with you when you mentioned the ridiculously high salaries of the top dogs.

alastair

out da lough wrote: »

And then when anyone objects, they are accused of going off on a "Sindo type rant,"

Nah - just the ones who actually engage in Sindo-style rants.

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

We could increase corporation tax by 3% and still be one of the lowest in europe.

We could take control of our fishing rights that were sold down the river when we joined the EU. Some commentators reckon this has cost Ireland close to €200 billion since we joined.

We could stop phil hogan spend massive amounts on foreign junkets.

Have you any ideas yourself or are you just cheerleading for this property tax?

I am here debating the pros and cons of a property tax thats all. You are claiming that it is not needed as it is unfair and that there are better ways to bridge the deficit that include everyone in a fair way I asked you what these may be, yet you havent come close to bridging the deficit, and you havent told me how you would do this in a fair way that includes everyone.

kr7

golden lane wrote: »

i am not surprised at that.......an overbearing sense of righteousness.....all the time looking down on fellow citizens......

his sweeping grandious statements of overbearing tripe......have proven that he is a long time loser......

trying to display an education that is of no interest to odrinary people.........only shows a lack of respect to those people......i wonder where he learned that from.........

The ignore button is a great thing.
Only problem with it is that when someone quotes a poster on the ignore list it can be seen in that post.

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

And where did you get your figure of 6million from I have never heard of this before, I was always under the impression our population was 3 - 4 million but never 6.

I agree with the rest of your post though as I have previously agreed with you when you mentioned the ridiculously high salaries of the top dogs.

He's taking into account the population of the 32 counties I presume,

Dub XV

alastair wrote: »

Ignore button for you my ranting friend. Bye!

Another petty post!


Just hit the fcuking button and be done with it.

It's like some badge of honour for you.

"How many posters have I ignored today?" "Ka chow" and then winks in the mirror!

Dub XV

alastair wrote: »

Nah - just the ones who actually engage in Sindo-style rants.

You think that's a put down, don't you

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

And where did you get your figure of 6million from I have never heard of this before, I was always under the impression our population was 3 - 4 million but never 6.

I agree with the rest of your post though as I have previously agreed with you when you mentioned the ridiculously high salaries of the top dogs.

4.58 million in the republic.

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

He's taking into account the population of the 32 counties I presume,

I figured as much, why he is doing so I dont know.

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

I am here debating the pros and cons of a property tax thats all. You are claiming that it is not needed as it is unfair and that there are better ways to bridge the deficit that include everyone in a fair way I asked you what these may be, yet you havent come close to bridging the deficit, and you havent told me how you would do this in a fair way that includes everyone.

Three times I've told you that a council tax would be fair, similar to the UK.

If you don't want to listen there's not much I can do.

The deficit will not be bridged in 1, 2 or even 3 years, it'll take time.

We have to borrow the money to cover the deficit until things improve.

This is the way of the world, every country borrows money from time to time, it's nothing new.

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

I figured as much, why he is doing so I dont know.

Think the point was that the bloated salary quoted would be bad enough even if it involved a 6 million population (of a country)

But its to cover a county with a half million residents.


Think that was the point.

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

My mother is not yet 60.

My father 62

You can't back up your statement.

My statement? I guess they live in a shoe then - whatever.

Here's the rates for NI for anyone who cares about the facts of the matter:http://www.dfpni.gov.uk/lps/index/property_rating/rates-calculator-2012-2013.htm

On a modest property of £150,000:

Antrim: £1117.8
Belfast: £1031.1
Derry: £1180.8
Newry: £1056.15
Ballymena: £1130.7
Omagh: £1132.8

etc.

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

Three times I've told you that a council tax would be fair, similar to the UK.

If you don't want to listen there's not much I can do.

The deficit will not be bridged in 1, 2 or even 3 years, it'll take time.

We have to borrow the money to cover the deficit until things improve.

This is the way of the world, every country borrows money from time to time, it's nothing new.

Ok I will break it down even simpler for you as you continue to miss the point.

Europe tells the Govt it wants €200 from them today.

The Govt doesnt have it so the Govt says to you I am going to tax you €200.

You pay the €200 to the Govt. they in turn give it to Europe.

End of Story.

However your way is:

Europe tells the Govt it wants €200 from them today.

The Govt doesnt have it so the Govt says to you I am going to tax you €200.

You pay the €200 to the Govt. they in turn give provide you with a service that costs them €200.

They give Europe €0. So the govt need to tax you again to get €200 for Europe.

Can you see the flaw in your idea?

out da lough

Population of Ireland is 4.6 million. Population of Northern Ireland is 1.8 million. Total 6.4 Million.

That figure surprised me too I must say.

But anyway. If we look at what we call "the budget" I tend to liken that to my weekly grocery budget.

Now, say my weekly grocery budget is €100. I cannot borrow any more money from the bank, because they are not giving out any money, and I do not have a credit card. So my total fixed budget is €100 for groceries for the week.

Now I can choose to go to Marks & Spencer and buy three ready meals for four which will cost me €100.

This will leave my family hungry but we will eat well and have little preparation time on Sunday Monday and Tuesday.

Or I can go to Aldi or Lidl and purchase groceries for the week for €100. OK, the costs will be lower but I may have to spend more time preparing the food and it won't have the Marks & Spencer brand attached to it.


In other words I spend my limited income in the most cost effective manner possible for my needs.

If the country was run in this manner, then I am sure that large savings could be made. For example, the Government has agreed to spend €29 Million on the Horse Racing Industry this year.

This to me, appears to be an obscene amount of money to spend on something that is already mainly benefiting high net worth individuals. I often wonder why the government feels the need to do this.

But then I see that last saturday night, the well known horse breeder and tax exile, JP McManus threw a party for 1,600 invited guests at his home (but not his domicile) in Co. Limerick.

Complimentary Dom Perignon was served, to all upon arrival. The cost of this is roughly €50 per bottle.

What has this got to do with anyone?

Well, one of the guests at this event where a tax exile poured champagne and fine food into those present all evening was none other than our current minister for finance, Michael Noonan, TD.


This function was held to celebrate the success of two racehorses: "Synchronised," and "Don't Push It."

I suppose €29 Million isn't much to spend when you consider the benefits that horses like this have brought to the country.


And anyway, I presume that when the Minister For Finance was being entertained last saturday night (in the company it must be said of Ex-Fianna Fáil Ministers Charlie McCreevey and Willie O' Dea, and Labour Party Mayor Of Limerick, Gerry "Ginger" McLoughlin, Independent TD Michael Lowry, and former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern), he was probably thinking about how to collect enough property taxes on people's homes to fund the €29 Million for the horse racing industry.

Still, I presume JP McManus had to pay the departure tax at the airport when he flew back to his tax exile residence in Geneva.

out da lough

donalg1 wrote: »

I figured as much, why he is doing so I dont know.

Simple.

You used the expression "on this island."

Micky Dolenz

Mod

This is the final warning, get personal and get thread banned at best.

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

My statement? I guess they live in a shoe then - whatever.

Here's the rates for NI for anyone who cares about the facts of the matter:http://www.dfpni.gov.uk/lps/index/property_rating/rates-calculator-2012-2013.htm

On a modest property of £150,000:

Antrim: £1117.8
Belfast: £1031.1
Derry: £1180.8
Newry: £1056.15
Ballymena: £1130.7
Omagh: £1132.8

etc.

No, not in a shoe.

Just a modest, 3 bed bungalow inn rural county Derry.

All examples you've given are for large Towns or cities.

donalg1

out da lough wrote: »

Simple.

You used the expression "on this island."

Nit picking phrases shows a lack of an answer carrying any substance.

And you know what I meant.

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

No, not in a shoe.

Just a modest, 3 bed bungalow inn rural county Derry.

All examples you've given are for large Towns or cities.

Okay nice rural county Derry property (Limavady) of £150,000...

£1174.5

Striking difference.

The examples I picked are cerainly not all urban.

Dub XV

donalg1 wrote: »

Do road tolls go to Local Authorities or the Private Company that built the road as part of a PPP contract?

Who cares. Alastair said there was no road tax?

What's your point?

Chips Lovell

I'd prefer to pay for waste and water separately rather than having them lumped into one tax. I'm a fan of the polluter pays principle. Getting people to pay for much of these services they use cuts down on waste.

alastair

Dub XV wrote: »

Who cares. Alastair said there was no road tax?

There's not.

out da lough

donalg1 wrote: »

Nit picking phrases shows a lack of an answer carrying any substance.

And you know what I meant.

Look.

I have no issue with you, or your opinion. I was merely clarifying that the population "of this island" is over 6 million.

This is quite important in my opinion. The reason I think it is important, is because if you add up the numbers of public represntatives, local authorities, urban and town councils, governments, "assemblies" and everything else, I feel strongly that there is a valid case to be made that there is too much resources being used on managing a population which is much smaller than other peninsulas, islands, countries, states, regions or whatever.

Specifically, there is a Cork County Manager, a Cork City Manager, a Lord Mayor of Cork, and a Mayor of County Cork.

I don't know what the Mayor of County Cork earns. But I do know that the Cork City Manager, the Cork County Manager, and the Lord Mayor of Cork are each on a package in excess of that of the Prime Minister of Spain.

Replicate this across the island/country/administrative region, and I think we are paying far too much on administration.

That was the crux of my proposition.

I apologise if you think I was nit picking.

donalg1

Dub XV wrote: »

Who cares. Alastair said there was no road tax?

What's your point?

You mentioned Road Tolls I was simply asking you if you knew where these go, because they dont go to the maintenance of roads.