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Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

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    #1562
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    kr7 wrote: »
    From my point of view, I'd support a tax similar to a 'council tax' like they have in the UK.

    I will not support, nor will not pay a property tax that discriminates against people who bought / are paying for their own homes and not expecting the state to provide a home for them.

    My ideals are different from yours I presume.

    I think that's clear at this stage. I've already outlined why I believe property owners should pay proportionally more than non-property owners. The only thing I would say that someone who doesn't own a house isn't automatically expecting the state to provide a home for them.


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    #1563
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    I think that's clear at this stage. I've already outlined why I believe property owners should pay proportionally more than non-property owners. The only thing I would say that someone who doesn't own a house isn't automatically expecting the state to provide a home for them.

    Pity that, I thought we were getting somewhere.
    We'll agree to disagree.

    At least your being constructive and honest about it.:)


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    #1564
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,933 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    The Commission on Taxation Report (which I think I mentioned in another thread) recommended it and its findings are what convinced me of its benefits. Chapter six is worth a read.

    For me it it broadens the tax base, makes our tax revenues more stable by moving away from reliance on stamp duty, and is less likely to distort the labour market. It'll probably have the bonus effect of rooting out some more landlord types and getting them into the tax net.

    I've no idea what the crack will be with farmers. My understanding is that it's a tax on houses, not land.

    Thanks. I'll read that.


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    #1565
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    I think that's clear at this stage. I've already outlined why I believe property owners should pay proportionally more than non-property owners. The only thing I would say that someone who doesn't own a house isn't automatically expecting the state to provide a home for them.

    So, what do you say to house/property owners, who were scammed when some planners decided to rezone property on flood plains. Do you send the hhc reminder letters out to them in the good weather or wait until they are up to their necks clearing the water from their homes. Now, I would be interested in the answer to this, as this has happened to a good friend of mine and I'd just like to keep him up to date when I am speaking to him tomorrow.


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    #1566
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    Report in todays sunday business post-they re considering 25 different property tax bands.
    It has been reported the Government is considering having as many as 25 different property tax bands.

    According to the Sunday Business Post, Ministers would like to introduce an extensive sliding scale based on the value of the property.

    It is proposed that these 25 different bands will be based on €25,000 increments.

    For example, one band could be between €350,000 and €375,000, with the next band rising to €400,000.

    It is estimated the new property tax, which will replace the household charge next year, could cost homeowners between €300 and €500 a year with higher bills for more valuable properties

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sbp-govt-considering-25-different-property-tax-bands-561891.html


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    #1567
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Am Chile wrote: »
    Report in todays sunday business post-they re considering 25 different property tax bands.



    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sbp-govt-considering-25-different-property-tax-bands-561891.html

    Another clusterfuck in the making...


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    #1568
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Am Chile wrote: »
    Report in todays sunday business post-they re considering 25 different property tax bands.



    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sbp-govt-considering-25-different-property-tax-bands-561891.html

    Can't see it myself - the bands are too narrow to allow for proper self assessment (especially if its a house rather than a site valuation).
    It is estimated the new property tax, which will replace the household charge next year, could cost homeowners between €300 and €500 a year with higher bills for more valuable properties

    €300 to €500? What happened to the €1000 that people here were banging on about?


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    #1569
    steve9859
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭steve9859


    mikom wrote: »
    Another clusterfuck in the making...

    Except on thing I am happier about is that the amounts they are talking about are fairly modest at €300 to €500 for normal as opposed to 'high value' properties (whatever high value means). That is a amount that can be passed on to tenants fairly painlessly (as tax shound be based on residency, as in the UK, not ownership)


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    #1570
    ART6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭ART6


    The question for me is who values the property? I have just had mine professionally valued for a different reason, but will they accept that or will they appoint valuers like they did in the UK? If the latter then it's a safe bet that the valuations will be on the high side as they were there. It will, of course, be possible to appeal -- to the people who did the valuation in the first place.

    Alternatively, will they accept the owner's valuation? If so, mine's worth thirty five cents!

    And, of course, we can rely upon the statement of minister Noonan that the charges will "Be modest." can't we? After all, the ministers in this government are noted for their truthfulness. I cannot believe that anyone in their right mind will expect that once they have got away with this fraudulent charge they will be able to resist annual increases. Personally I am with "Big Phil" Hogan. Why should anyone pay for services they don't receive? Oh, of course, that was in someone else's country, wasn't it?


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    #1571
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    ART6 wrote: »
    The question for me is who values the property?

    Personally I am with "Big Phil" Hogan. Why should anyone pay for services they don't receive? Oh, of course, that was in someone else's country, wasn't it?

    Well, well......
    The Institute of Professional Auctioneers and Valuers (IPAV)

    Hogan, Phil - MIPAV (HON)

    http://www.ipav.ie/Members/search_member.aspx?Region=Co.%20Kilkenny


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    #1572
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    There is a self assessment valuation bill going through the motions in the seanad,seems like they re gettting ready for the property tax, anyone interested in seeing it's content click on the following links- I have read some of it, very long reading.

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=21705&&CatID=59

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/bills28/bills/2012/7512/a7512s.pdf


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    #1573
    galwayrush
    Registered Users Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    I guess the Government needs it to pay the extra money needed for breaking the salary caps they were suppost to enforce...


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    #1574
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    ART6 wrote: »
    The question for me is who values the property?

    Most likely self assesment (dispite mikom's attempt to muddy the waters).


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    #1575
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    dvpower wrote: »
    Most likely self assesment (dispite mikom's attempt to muddy the waters).

    With no spot checks ever............


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    #1576
    Avatarr
    Registered Users Posts: 150 ✭✭Avatarr


    All, I haven't paid household charge (small personal protest) does anybody have an upto date figure for non compliance.

    Is there any other non payers out there and are you planning on paying or going the distance.


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    #1577
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    mikom wrote: »
    With no spot checks ever............

    They'll likely use the new House Price Database for matching, due to be published in September.
    The bill allows for 'Revision Officers' to revise self assesments that are out of sync.


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    #1578
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    Won't be paying regardless what the cost is.

    I won't bail out bankers.


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    #1579
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Avatarr wrote: »
    All, I haven't paid household charge (small personal protest) does anybody have an upto date figure for non compliance.

    Is there any other non payers out there and are you planning on paying or going the distance.

    Have a read back over the numerous threads on this subject Avatarr.
    There are tonnes of objectors on these boards holding out.


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    #1580
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,933 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Avatarr wrote: »
    All, I haven't paid household charge (small personal protest) does anybody have an upto date figure for non compliance.

    Is there any other non payers out there and are you planning on paying or going the distance.

    About 900,000 at a rough guess, maybe more.


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    #1581
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Avatarr wrote: »
    All, I haven't paid household charge (small personal protest) does anybody have an upto date figure for non compliance.
    Are you looking for actual official figures or some of the artist's impressions you often get around here?

    The latest number I've seen for people who've paid is 967,937, so if you accept the official figure of 1.6m for the total # of eligible households then that's just under 40% non compliance.
    Obviously, you can use other figures to make that number look however you want it.


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    #1582
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    Who would believe any figures bandied around by this or any other government?
    They have been so accurate in the past, haven't they?

    I'd reckon maybe around 50% have registered at present, that's probably as accurate as a report in the Irish times anyway.

    We'll see next year how many will pay the actual tax though, having someone's details and getting them to part with a few hundred or even a thousand euro are two different things.


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    #1583
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    Has anyone seen or does anyone know somebody who got one of these letters they've sent out?
    More lies I'd reckon, from a government that has lost the trust of a lot of people.


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    #1584
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    kr7 wrote: »
    Has anyone seen or does anyone know somebody who got one of these letters they've sent out?
    More lies I'd reckon, from a government that has lost the trust of a lot of people.

    I haven,t gotten any letter, neither has anyone I know received a letter either.


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    #1585
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    Avatarr wrote: »
    All, I haven't paid household charge (small personal protest) does anybody have an upto date figure for non compliance.

    Is there any other non payers out there and are you planning on paying or going the distance.

    Welcome to the good side Avatarr,
    I haven't registered and I haven't paid, I won't be paying either.

    There's a hell of a lot who won't be paying either.
    Your in good company so don't be bullied by the pro-taxers on here.

    They have an agenda their working to and many of them are FG apologists so expect some flak.


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    #1586
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    Am Chile wrote: »
    I haven,t gotten any letter, neither has anyone I know received a letter either.

    Wouldn't you think even one person on here would know of someone who got one?


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    #1587
    hellyeah
    Registered Users Posts: 459 ✭✭hellyeah


    kr7 wrote: »
    Has anyone seen or does anyone know somebody who got one of these letters they've sent out?
    More lies I'd reckon, from a government that has lost the trust of a lot of people.


    I did not pay, plus parents and brother. We all live in private estates ( seperate addreses of course), and have recieved squat.:D
    By law of average one of us should have received if you were to believe the media. More lies from government me thinks.


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    #1588
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    kr7 wrote: »
    Wouldn't you think even one person on here would know of someone who got one?

    Yes you would.
    So why haven't we seen even a scan of one?

    I know upwards of 100 people who I have regular contact with that I know have not paid.
    I have only got to ask about 80% of them have they received this "famous" letter.
    All I asked had had replied that they and their friends had not got any.


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    #1589
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    mikom wrote: »
    Yes you would.
    So why haven't we seen even a scan of one?

    Tell you what, if they send me the second letter, 'a strongly worded letter' I'll have to pay up!


    NOT:D


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    #1590
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    mikom wrote: »
    Yes you would.
    So why haven't we seen even a scan of one?

    Household-Letter-375x500.jpg


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    #1591
    Avatarr
    Registered Users Posts: 150 ✭✭Avatarr


    kr7 wrote: »
    Who would believe any figures bandied around by this or any other government?
    They have been so accurate in the past, haven't they?

    I'd reckon maybe around 50% have registered at present, that's probably as accurate as a report in the Irish times anyway.

    We'll see next year how many will pay the actual tax though, having someone's details and getting them to part with a few hundred or even a thousand euro are two different things.

    Gov will learn from this years mistake (only mistake they will learn from, unfortunately) I would be shocked if its not taken directly, for example paye or social welfare.


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