Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

paddy147

K3lso wrote: »

It most certainly does not.

So thats around 2000 euro a year then,from 2014 (bin charges and then combined with water meter rates).:eek:

Holy fcuking jesus...this country is going to implode and the public will EXPLODE.:mad:





Im off out into my back garden to sew my magical beans and plant my money tree now.




Gas prices will go through the roof too (Bord Gais keeping on upping the price)...They are now seeking another 8% increase for next month,from the CER.

No doubt that the CER will grant it too..as they never ever say NO to Bord Gais.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

ABajaninCork

At least in the UK, the council tax DOES include bins (which are taken weekly!), Fire Brigade, LA and police as well as other things. We moan about paying it, but at least once it's paid all those expenses are taken care of.

Is it true that the property tax will cover NONE of these? In that case - **** 'em! Cheeky *******. Come the revolution!!

bhamsteve

darkhorse wrote: »

Politics=The only job in the world where one does not have to account to the people that is paying ones salary, also cannot be sacked by same paying people, until a certain term in office is reached. Just hope it aint too late at that stage.

Parasites are by definition tricky buggers to get rid of.

Monty Burnz

K3lso wrote: »

What necessary hard decisions?

Property tax. Balancing the books. That sort of thing. You know, governing.

K3lso wrote: »

We have a government that thinks the Seanie's of this world and other bankers are more important than the creation of a level playing field for everyone on this island. There doesn't need to be any hard decision...just logical one's. Thus far, we've seen none. From a moral standpoint as well as an economic one.

That's just rhetorical nonsense that means nothing. If there's an actual point in there, I can't see it. Would that be the Sean Fitzpatrick who has been bankrupted and charged with 16 legal offences?

K3lso wrote: »

They want to take more disposable cash out of the populations pockets and then wonder why the economy is slowing down? Who's giving Kenny economic advice? Mr. Bean?! Any thats just one's illogicality in a myriad of nonsense. The only people getting on seem to be government advisers....didn't FG give all theirs a promotion yesterday? lol...and then ask for a property tax to pay them. If it wasn't so serious, it would be funny..

So your solution is to take money from the magical money tree, like the socialist parties? Well it might work, I guess.

K3lso

paddy147 wrote: »

So thats around 2000 euro a year then,from 2014 (bin charges and then combined with water meter rates).

Holy fcuking jesus...this country is going to implode and the public will EXPLODE.

Im off out into my back garden to sew my magical beans and plant my money tree now.

Gas prices will go through ther roof too (Bord gais keeping on upping the price)...They are now seeking another 8% increase for next month,from the CER.

Anyone with a bit of serious cash laying around have already move it abroad or have insulated themselves already. The time to get out of here was years ago. They don't have to ask you for a property tax to rob you - all they have to do is turn on the printing presses.

paddy147

K3lso wrote: »

Anyone with a bit of serious cash laying around have already move it abroad or have insulated themselves already. The time to get out of here was years ago. They don't have to ask you for a property tax to rob you - all they have to do is turn on the printing presses.

Yeah.....a certain father and son team by the name of "Sean" by any chance??:rolleyes::mad:

Also dont forget Mr Fingleton and his son.:mad:

And David Drum too.:mad:

K3lso

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Property tax. Balancing the books. That sort of thing. You know, governing.

That's just rhetorical nonsense that means nothing. If there's an actual point in there, I can't see it. Would that be the Sean Fitzpatrick who has been bankrupted and charged with 16 legal offences?

So your solution is to take money from the magical money tree, like the socialist parties? Well it might work, I guess.

"Governing" ..ha, a thread worthy topic in and of itself.

We don't balance books and if we did, what on Earth would we be paying for to warrant the introduction of a property tax to balance the books with?! Don't you see the illogicality?

Secondly, if you're going to defend just about every government in the western world against corporatism then this conversation is over. Irish governments have long been in bed with the corporations. And I'm not sure what you mean by magic money tree...I'm a capitalist in every sense of the word. I'd hazard a guess and say you don't know what that means.

Monty Burnz

K3lso wrote: »

"Governing" ..ha, a thread worthy topic in and of itself.

Probably more than just a thread in it, I would suggest...

K3lso wrote: »

We don't balance books and if we did, what on Earth would we be paying for to warrant the introduction of a property tax to balance the books with?! Don't you see the illogicality?

We don't balance the books because we are taxing too little and paying out too much for services and social welfare. People don't seem to like the idea of cutting services and social welfare, the PS doesn't like the idea of cuts in their pay, and nobody likes paying extra tax. But some combination of all of the above are required. Isn't this true? (By the way, I agree that the government should be more aggressive in cutting pay and services - FG wanted more cuts, Labour wanted more tax increases)

K3lso wrote: »

Secondly, if you're going to defend just about every government in the western world against corporatism then this conversation is over. Irish governments have long been in bed with the corporations. And I'm not sure what you mean by magic money tree...I'm a capitalist in every sense of the word. I'd hazard a guess and say you don't know what that means.

I don't recall defending corporatism. But if you think that it's the bank bailouts that have us in the sh!t, then I think you know even less about capitalism than you seem to think I do.

bhamsteve

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I agree, but everybody wants the government to cut the pay or raise the taxes or cut the services of everybody else. And they all think they have common cause.

Irish people deserve the populist governments they've elected and led us to disaster, and now that we have a government that is actually making necessary hard decisions (but not enough of them, I agree) everybody moans.

I believe that everyone will have to contribute towards getting us out of this hole, but this is going to hit the low paid homeowner disproportionately. If the figures quoted are correct I will have approximately 0 euros a week after paying the mortgage, bills, petrol, the bare minimum of clothing etc and a nutritious but not luxurious trolley full of food sufficient to feed 3 people. I'm sure there are many people who are just about keeping their head above water at the moment who this is gonna cripple. This will result in more people becoming bankrupt and f'ing up the banks even more. At the same time Certain public servants are paid a multiple of the equivalent wages in other EU countries.
How much would a salary cap on public servants raise? or a 1% rise in corporation tax? Means testing child-benefit?

paddy147

bhamsteve wrote: »

I believe that everyone will have to contribute towards getting us out of this hole,?

Does that include these ministers advisors too??;)

I see Enda Kenny is giving them all a nice 3K salary increase for all their hard work in advizing all the minsiters how to blow tax payers money over and over and over again.:rolleyes::mad:

Monty Burnz

bhamsteve wrote: »

I believe that everyone will have to contribute towards getting us out of this hole, but this is going to hit the low paid homeowner disproportionately. If the figures quoted are correct I will have approximately 0 euros a week after paying the mortgage, bills, petrol, the bare minimum of clothing etc and a nutritious but not luxurious trolley full of food sufficient to feed 3 people. I'm sure there are many people who are just about keeping their head above water at the moment who this is gonna cripple. This will result in more people becoming bankrupt and f'ing up the banks even more. At the same time Certain public servants are paid a multiple of the equivalent wages in other EU countries.

The fact is that sometimes ordinary people will struggle, especially if they overpay for the biggest financial committment they will ever make (property). I'm sure I don't need to tell you about how as recently as the 70s and 80s people used to move into houses without so much as chairs to sit on, and furnished rooms one by one as they saved the money. I agree that our PS seems to be markedly overpaid, especially considering the state is essentially bankrupt.

bhamsteve wrote: »

How much would a salary cap on public servants raise? or a 1% rise in corporation tax? Means testing child-benefit?

All ideas worth exploring.

darkhorse

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Property tax. Balancing the books. That sort of thing. You know, governing.

That's just rhetorical nonsense that means nothing. If there's an actual point in there, I can't see it. Would that be the Sean Fitzpatrick who has been bankrupted and charged with 16 legal offences?

So your solution is to take money from the magical money tree, like the socialist parties? Well it might work, I guess.

Yeah, I dabbled in accountancy for 20 years and, ya know, I made the odd mistake, 3, maybe 4 pence in my career, but three and a half billion. Monty, balancing books, ?
As for the magical money tree, it seems to be ripe when they need to hand out rises in wages at the top.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Monty Burnz

darkhorse wrote: »

Yeah, I dabbled in accountancy for 20 years and, ya know, I made the odd mistake, 3, maybe 4 pence in my career, but three and a half billion. Monty, balancing books, ?

How do you mean? You lost me I'm afraid!

darkhorse wrote: »

As for the magical money tree, it seems to be ripe when they need to hand out rises in wages at the top.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

They do seem to have a genius for bad PR. But then everyone thought Fianna Failure were great as they marched the country to disaster in the 2000s. I suppose it's inevitable that the government that digs us out will be regarded as rubbish by the same public.

lugha

gerryo777 wrote: »

Regarding the subject matter (property tax) I believe that no one section of the population should be singled out for this type of tax.

Presumably you similarly object to income tax as only some sections of the population are singled out to pay it?

gerryo777 wrote: »

I cannot understand how the government are letting private renters and LA tenants off paying for the services provided.

And yet you are unable to tell us why this one concession to the lesser well off bugs you but the myriad of others that they receive in our welfare state leave you untroubled. Isn’t the whole concept of LA housing every bit as “discriminatory”?

gerryo777 wrote: »

Expect turbulent times between the government parties on the run in to the next general election.

Anybody who really understands how deep a hole we are in (and quite a few posters on the no side plainly do not!) would know that there will be seriously turbulent times in store for any government party, both with their coalition colleagues as well as the electorate, for the next 10-15 years or longer.

bhamsteve

Monty Burnz wrote: »

The fact is that sometimes ordinary people will struggle, especially if they overpay for the biggest financial commitment they will ever make (property). I'm sure I don't need to tell you about how as recently as the 70s and 80s people used to move into houses without so much as chairs to sit on, and furnished rooms one by one as they saved the money. I agree that our PS seems to be markedly overpaid, especially considering the state is essentially bankrupt.

All ideas worth exploring.

Overpaying for property was hard to avoid during a housing bubble, and is a mistake that a huge number of people made mainly due to bad timing, allowances should me made for this when deciding policy.
Expecting people to pay a large tax for the privilege of paying a mortgage on a house in negative equity is compounding peoples difficulties and making them more likely to walk away.
I don't think an entire generation will accept 20 years of austerity in order to maintain the lifestyles of the wealthy and those with the connections to find themselves in a well paid PS job. I certainly wont, life's too short for that.

bhamsteve

paddy147 wrote: »

Does that include these ministers advisors too??;)

I see Enda Kenny is giving them all a nice 3K salary increase for all their hard work in advizing all the minsiters how to blow tax payers money over and over and over again.:rolleyes::mad:

As I said before, Parasites, each and every one of them.

Monty Burnz

bhamsteve wrote: »

Overpaying for property was hard to avoid during a housing bubble, and is a mistake that a huge number of people made mainly due to bad timing, allowances should me made for this when deciding policy.

I invested in shares at a very bad time and lost a lot of money on them. They were to be my pension. Where's my bailout?

bhamsteve wrote: »

Expecting people to pay a large tax for the privilege of paying a mortgage on a house in negative equity is compounding peoples difficulties and making them more likely to walk away.

Let them walk away if they must, go bankrupt, and start again with a clean slate.

bhamsteve wrote: »

I don't think an entire generation will accept 20 years of austerity in order to maintain the lifestyles of the wealthy and those with the connections to find themselves in a well paid PS job. I certainly wont, life's too short for that.

Do you have a plan of action?

darkhorse

Monty Burnz wrote: »

How do you mean? You lost me I'm afraid!

They do seem to have a genius for bad PR. But then everyone thought Fianna Failure were great as they marched the country to disaster in the 2000s. I suppose it's inevitable that the government that digs us out will be regarded as rubbish by the same public.

I am merely answering your post. If I lost you in the process, there is not much I can do about that.
As regards them having a genius for bad PR, well, all I have to say about that is that they should just get rid of their present PR strategist. There can be no excuse for blatantly throwing away money in this, the worst economical time in the history of our once great country.:mad::mad:

paddy147

The chinese will come over and save us all........when they build "little big chinatown" just outside Athlone.:D

bhamsteve

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I invested in shares at a very bad time and lost a lot of money on them. They were to be my pension. Where's my bailout?

Let them walk away if they must, go bankrupt, and start again with a clean slate.

Do you have a plan of action?

I wouldn't be willing to bail you out, as I do not expect to be bailed out myself. But if they decided to bring out a 1000 euro a year flat rate tax for the privilege of owning your now worthless shares, I would say that would be taking the piss somewhat.

"Let them walk away if they must, go bankrupt, and start again with a clean slate."

That would be in mine, and a whole host of others best interest but to the detriment of society/ the economy as a whole. Out of a sense of duty I would rather knuckle down and try to get through this but I'm not a magician, I can't pull money out of my arse.

"Do you have a plan of action?

Tax those who can afford it.
Pay people what you can afford to pay them, if they don't like it, give the job to someone else.
Don't vote in the same shower of incompetent parasites again.
Seriously study the pros and cons of defaulting on public debt, leaving the euro.
Allow economists to manage the economy, not politicians who's main concern is staying in power.

darkhorse

I just want to say that I would deem that a rise in income tax across the board would, IMO, be the most fair and equitable system in raising money for the coffers. Thats my opinion.

bhamsteve

darkhorse wrote: »

I just want to say that I would deem that a rise in income tax across the board would, IMO, be the most fair and equitable system in raising money for the coffers. Thats my opinion.

I would agree that is an important part of the solution, but would have to include an equal rise in corporation tax, capital gains tax and public sector salary cap.

darkhorse

I better go to bed, people. My Mom dos'ent like me staying up too late. Night all.

alastair

Bullseye1 wrote: »

As a self proclaim tax dodger your the last person who should be questioning anyone on who has paid their taxes.

I'm not liable for any owed taxes whatsoever - 100% tax compliant in this jurisdiction and all others. Now - are you a current tax dodger?

alastair

darkhorse wrote: »

I just want to say that I would deem that a rise in income tax across the board would, IMO, be the most fair and equitable system in raising money for the coffers. Thats my opinion.

An income tax increase would impinge on job creation, exclude a significant proportion of wealth in the country, play into the hands of the black economy, and be more difficult to enforce. Diminishing returns on income tax is the norm - which is why everyone else in the world has figured out there's a sweet spot between income taxation and property taxation. The missing piece of the jigsaw here...?

alastair

bhamsteve wrote: »

I wouldn't be willing to bail you out, as I do not expect to be bailed out myself. But if they decided to bring out a 1000 euro a year flat rate tax for the privilege of owning your now worthless shares, I would say that would be taking the piss somewhat.

You've no idea what the property tax would be on your house. And it wouldn't be a flat tax - it will be linked to the value of your property - which is not actually 'worthless'. Who's taking the piss with their analogy?

alastair

tunedout wrote: »

no we fairly bad at enforcing every other tax ali boy!! I havent paid
My car tax in 4 months, the benefits of not paying outweigh the penalty for the moment. I dont pay vat on many products i should. Also my little bro earns 15k a year all of which is mine loool. Come, come, come ali boy, what does go on in thy mind.

Well - at least you're consistent in not paying your way - you must be very proud.

Bullseye1

Oh heaven four posts I don't have to read.

bhamsteve

alastair wrote: »

You've no idea what the property tax would be on your house. And it wouldn't be a flat tax - it will be linked to the value of your property - which is not actually 'worthless'. Who's taking the piss with their analogy?

Did I claim anyone was taking the piss with their analogy? It was the tax that I said would be a piss take, not the financial circumstances of another poster, I would not be that ignorant or crass.
True, I've no idea what the level of tax will be, I can only speculate like everyone else, but I fear that the 1000 euros mentioned will be likely.
I don't have a property, I have a house where I live. It is not part of a portfolio of assets.

dvpower

bhamsteve wrote: »

I don't have a property, I have a house where I live. It is not part of a portfolio of assets.

That is a property, and an asset.