Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

bhamsteve

dvpower wrote: »

That is a property, and an asset.

If it is viewed as an asset then the liabilities on it exceed the value, therefore it is worthless/ of negative value.
It was people viewing houses as assets and investment vehicles and the buy to let investments that lead to the housing bubble that has all but bankrupted this country.

Monty Burnz

bhamsteve wrote: »

I wouldn't be willing to bail you out, as I do not expect to be bailed out myself. But if they decided to bring out a 1000 euro a year flat rate tax for the privilege of owning your now worthless shares, I would say that would be taking the piss somewhat.

Is your house worthless? Are you not able to live in it now that it's in negative equity?

Monty Burnz

darkhorse wrote: »

I just want to say that I would deem that a rise in income tax across the board would, IMO, be the most fair and equitable system in raising money for the coffers. Thats my opinion.

The problem with that is that it acts as a disincentive to work, especially to the wealthier people who pay the highest rates, which has a disproportionately negative effect on ecomonic growth.

I personally think it would be the fairest method too, but this is one of those areas where you have a choice between being fair or being effective (where effectiveness implies a greater overall tax-take and a quicker recovery for all of us).

dvpower

bhamsteve wrote: »

If it is viewed as an asset then the liabilities on it exceed the value, therefore it is worthless/ of negative value.

The liabilities (a mortgage I presume) doesn't devalue the asset. If a hurricane comes along and knocks down the house, you lose the asset, but the liability remains with you.

bhamsteve wrote: »

It was people viewing houses as assets and investment vehicles and the buy to let investments that lead to the housing bubble that has all but bankrupted this country.

One can view their home as an asset without thinking of it as an investment vehicle.

alastair

bhamsteve wrote: »

Did I claim anyone was taking the piss with their analogy? It was the tax that I said would be a piss take, not the financial circumstances of another poster, I would not be that ignorant or crass.
True, I've no idea what the level of tax will be, I can only speculate like everyone else, but I fear that the 1000 euros mentioned will be likely.
I don't have a property, I have a house where I live. It is not part of a portfolio of assets.

I'm suggesting that you're taking the piss with your analogy.

Your house isn't worthless.
It'll be taxed on it's value - not on a flat basis.
It's a property - with a resale value.

bhamsteve

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Is your house worthless? Are you not able to live in it now that it's in negative equity?

It is a nice house where i enjoy to live and I would like to continue living, therefore it is far from worthless to me. On the other hand financially speaking it is a disaster and I would resent having to pay a percentage of it's supposed value each year for the privilege of paying the mortgage on it.
In my position I could default on mortgage, bankrupt myself rent the house next door, saving myself a couple of hundred a month. This is something I don't want to do but the property tax will push me that bit closer to doing out of necessity.
If in a few years the country has seen any kind of improvement, people are not stuck in a negative equity trap with poor work prospects, I would be all in favor of paying an affordable local tax in order to improve the local services, be it per household or a percentage or two on individuals and businesses income.

Monty Burnz

bhamsteve wrote: »

In my position I could default on mortgage, bankrupt myself rent the house next door, saving myself a couple of hundred a month.

Fair enough, but you'd still be paying the tax on the rented house - either directly, or as part of your rent via the landlord.

K3lso

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Probably more than just a thread in it, I would suggest...

We don't balance the books because we are taxing too little and paying out too much for services and social welfare. People don't seem to like the idea of cutting services and social welfare, the PS doesn't like the idea of cuts in their pay, and nobody likes paying extra tax. But some combination of all of the above are required. Isn't this true? (By the way, I agree that the government should be more aggressive in cutting pay and services - FG wanted more cuts, Labour wanted more tax increases)

I don't recall defending corporatism. But if you think that it's the bank bailouts that have us in the sh!t, then I think you know even less about capitalism than you seem to think I do.

I know that capitalism opposes the bailing out of losers. Capitalism is about profit and loss, and the latter part of that statement just so happens to be the most important. Because losses are what gets rid of bad companies - i.e - our banks. They should have been allowed to fail.

The bank bailouts are a big part of it no doubt about it but so is this mentality that nationalization is the answer for just about everything going under since 2008. I agree we need to balance the books (indeed, it should be the law), but raising taxes are not the way to go for economic reasons. We need the populace to keep their disposable income in their back pockets - I don't see what taking it away from them is going to achieve?

I'm on the side that believes we need less taxation and regulation but it's not just Labour asking for this. There exists a permanent government in this country - not the parties that happen to be voted in every five years. That permanent government as you've rightly pointed out is the public service. We have people in the public sector living the high life compared to their counter parts in other European countries. Their lavish lifestyles and annual salaries is fit for a king. These people have no desire for change because criminals with a monopoly never do.

The decision needs to be made to get these leeches out of the system altogether. It wouldn't have any kind of negative effect - they would simply stop living off what the productive private sector is producing and join constructive production. We need to get these people back into the private sector, this is a priority to cut huge swats of wasted money.

bhamsteve

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Fair enough, but you'd still be paying the tax on the rented house - either directly, or as part of your rent via the landlord.

I don't have a problem with paying more tax, if I could afford it, and it is part of a host of measures to get this country out of the hole it is currently in.
I do feel that everyone should feel the pain of this recession though, not just those at the bottom of the pile.

alastair

K3lso wrote: »

I know that capitalism opposes the bailing out of losers. Capitalism is about profit and loss, and the latter part of that statement just so happens to be the most important. Because losses are what gets rid of bad companies - i.e - our banks. They should have been allowed to fail.

The bank bailouts are a big part of it no doubt about it but so is this mentality that nationalization is the answer for just about everything going under since 2008. I agree we need to balance the books (indeed, it should be the law), but raising taxes are not the way to go for economic reasons. We need the populace to keep their disposable income in their back pockets - I don't see what taking it away from them is going to achieve?

I'm on the side that believes we need less taxation and regulation but it's not just Labour asking for this. There exists a permanent government in this country - not the parties that happen to be voted in every five years. That permanent government as you've rightly pointed out is the public service. We have people in the public sector living the high life compared to their counter parts in other European countries. Their lavish lifestyles and annual salaries is fit for a king. These people have no desire for change because criminals with a monopoly never do.

The decision needs to be made to get these leeches out of the system altogether. It wouldn't have any kind of negative effect - they would simply stop living off what the productive private sector is producing and join constructive production. We need to get these people back into the private sector, this is a priority to cut huge swats of wasted money.

Can you point to the formula that will allow us to balance our books, without increasing taxation (or lowering it!), in a context where we've run out of borrowing options? You've highlighted some public sector employees living the high life - are they your alternate source of the required funding?

Monty Burnz

bhamsteve wrote: »

I do feel that everyone should feel the pain of this recession though, not just those at the bottom of the pile.

I think every working person is suffering, and those conventionally thought of as the 'bottom of the pile' - the perma-unemployed, the pensioners - are the ones who have gotten away more or less completely untouched.

K3lso

bhamsteve wrote: »

I don't have a problem with paying more tax, if I could afford it, and it is part of a host of measures to get this country out of the hole it is currently in.
I do feel that everyone should feel the pain of this recession though, not just those at the bottom of the pile.

I'll ask you a question because I'm interested to know who exactly are referred to as at the "bottom of the pile" folk in the general population.

Those that work and are demanded to pay higher taxes? Or those that live off their neighbours and whinge when their neighbours have nothing left to give? Two completely different situations. One legitimate, the other immoral.

When you don't seek employment and are quite happy to live off productive people, I can't see how you can complain when production slows down. It's as if these people feel a sense of entitlement. Here's some solid policy for you - abolish the minimum wage and employment will sky rocket. Why? Because a minimum wage law brushes low skilled workers aside and thus, they're destined to live on the dole queues.

bhamsteve

dvpower wrote: »

The liabilities (a mortgage I presume) doesn't devalue the asset. If a hurricane comes along and knocks down the house, you lose the asset, but the liability remains with you.


One can view their home as an asset without thinking of it as an investment vehicle.

My knowledge of economics is not sufficient to get into an argument on the definition of assets, so i won't. I believe that this thread was started as a gauge of who can afford to this tax and i put forward the case of someone (myself) who can't afford it and sees it as unjust at this present time.

K3lso

alastair wrote: »

Can you point to the formula that will allow us to balance our books, without increasing taxation (or lowering it!), in a context where we've run out of borrowing options? You've highlighted some public sector employees living the high life - are they your alternate source of the required funding?

Well first of all, we need to cut welfare - we have one of the most lavish welfare programmes in the world and it's growing - it's the absolute killer to our numbers. Of course we don't need to approach this from an abolitionist view-point, there can be..perhaps even more welcomed gradualisation period where we can have a discussion on lowering payment by 20E weekly the longer you're on the dole, perhaps cutting off money to those convicted of crimes, exchanging cold hard cash for food coupons (which cannot be spent on cigs and alcohol - then you'd see sport). There are lots of ways to reduce welfare but it can only be reduced if we're willing to have a discussion on it.

Then we need to cut the public service. Sell off state assets and hand them over to private enterprise. Let the market sort this mess out.

alastair

K3lso wrote: »

Well first of all, we need to cut welfare - we have one of the most lavish welfare programmes in the world and it's growing - it's the absolute killer to our numbers. Of course we don't need to approach this from an abolitionist view-point, there can be..perhaps even more welcomed gradualisation period where we can have a discussion on lowering payment by 20E weekly the longer you're on the dole, perhaps cutting off money to those convicted of crimes, exchanging cold hard cash for food coupons (which cannot be spent on cigs and alcohol - then you'd see sport). There are lots of ways to reduce welfare but it can only be reduced if we're willing to have a discussion on it.

Then we need to cut the public service. Sell off state assets and hand them over to private enterprise. Let the market sort this mess out.

I'm not seeing savings in there that would come anywhere near bridging the deficit. Which state assets are you proposing selling off?

bhamsteve

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I think every working person is suffering, and those conventionally thought of as the 'bottom of the pile' - the perma-unemployed, the pensioners - are the ones who have gotten away more or less completely untouched.

I know where you're coming from but I don't think every working person is suffering equally. I cannot equate someone having to do without their annual skiing holiday with other people struggling to put food on the table. I think that those on high public sector wages have got away scott free, and those on excessively high private sector wages could put their hands in their pockets too.
I totally agree that the long term unemployed and pensioners have not come out of it too badly either, and they can no longer be viewed as the have-nots. FFS, if I could get rent paid and the dole for the whole family I'd be delighted.

tayto lover

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I think every working person is suffering, and those conventionally thought of as the 'bottom of the pile' - the perma-unemployed, the pensioners - are the ones who have gotten away more or less completely untouched.

The farmers also with all their European and Education grants which are not available to many.
Nobody has explained how their Property Tax is going to be assessed or are they due for yet another freebie.

I can see many a self-employed man taking cash-in-hand for jobs more often now as well to pay his Property Tax.

Uriel.

bhamsteve wrote: »

I know where you're coming from but I don't think every working person is suffering equally. I cannot equate someone having to do without their annual skiing holiday with other people struggling to put food on the table. I think that those on high public sector wages have got away scott free, and those on excessively high private sector wages could put their hands in their pockets too.
I totally agree that the long term unemployed and pensioners have not come out of it too badly either, and they can no longer be viewed as the have-nots. FFS, if I could get rent paid and the dole for the whole family I'd be delighted.

Yeah but maybe the person taking the annual skiing holiday has invested considerable years, time, energy and money in both their education, self development and created a decent life. They pay more tax than people "lower down the food chain" but this begrudgery attitude of anyone who has excelled or is successful is really grating. If a property tax is introduced on value based approach, then you would expect the "oober rich" who have bought/developed lavish properties or multiple properties will be paying a multiple of those with an average property

alastair

tayto lover wrote: »

Nobody has explained how their Property Tax is going to be assessed or are they due for yet another freebie.

It's a tax on residential property - they pay on exactly the same basis as everyone else.

bhamsteve

K3lso wrote: »

I'll ask you a question because I'm interested to know who exactly are referred to as at the "bottom of the pile" folk in the general population.

Those that work and are demanded to pay higher taxes? Or those that live off their neighbours and whinge when their neighbours have nothing left to give? Two completely different situations. One legitimate, the other immoral.

When you don't seek employment and are quite happy to live off productive people, I can't see how you can complain when production slows down. It's as if these people feel a sense of entitlement. Here's some solid policy for you - abolish the minimum wage and employment will sky rocket. Why? Because a minimum wage law brushes low skilled workers aside and thus, they're destined to live on the dole queues.

I'd say bottom of the pile are minimum wage earners/ part time workers who work out of pride.
I'd put the deliberate perma- unemployed up there with overpaid public servants as the most over privileged in that they take more out of society than they put back.
I'd describe well paid private sector employees as deserving of their wages, but also those that will have to take a hit on their quality of living for the next few years in order to solve this situation.
Abolish minimum wage and a significant portion of the population will be forced into depending on the state. It will also make Tesco that little bit more profitable. But hey, isn't that what jobs-bridge is all about.

K3lso

alastair wrote: »

I'm not seeing savings in there that would come anywhere near bridging the deficit. Which state assets are you proposing selling off?

Government owned land.

I'd abolish most of these too:

Agriculture, Fisheries and Food Sea Fisheries Protection Authority 2007
Arts, Sport and Tourism National Sports Campus Development Authority 2007
Communications, Energy & Natural
Resources
National Oil Reserves Agency 2007
TG4 2007
Enterprise, Trade and Employment High Level Group on Business Regulation 2007
Enterprise, Trade and Employment National Consumer Agency 2007
Enterprise, Trade and Employment National Employment Rights Authority 2007
Limerick Northside Regeneration Agency 2007
Transport and the Marine Railway Safety Advisory Council 2007
Foreign Affairs Hunger Task Force 2007
Arts, Sport and Tourism Abbey Theatre (Amharclann na Mainistreach) 2006
Arts, Sport and Tourism Crawford Gallery Cork 2006
Arts, Sport and Tourism Fáilte Ireland (National Tourism Development Authority) Community, Rural and Gaeltacht 2006
Dormant Accounts Board 2006
Communications, Energy & Natural resources 2006
Eirgrid 2006
Education and Sciences Education Finance Board 2006
Education and Sciences Grangegorman Development Agency 2006
Education and Sciences The Teaching Council 2006
Enterprise, Trade and Employment IAASA 2006
Health and Children Health Repayment Scheme Appeals Office 2006
Transport and the Marine Railway Safety Commission 2006
Transport and the Marine Integrated Ticketing Project Board 2006
Arts, Sport and Tourism Culture Ireland 2005
Arts, Sport and Tourism National Museum of Ireland 2005
Community, Rural and Gaeltacht 2006
Pobal 2005
Western Development Commission 2005
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Small Business Forum - Implementation Group 2005
Environment, Heritage and Local Governm,ent 2005
Affordable Homes Partnership 2005
Health and Children Health Service Executive 2005
Justice, Equality and Law Reform National Property Services Regulatory Authority 2005
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Commission for the Support of Victims of Crime 2005
Comhairle na Tuaithe 2004
Oifig Choimisinéir na d'Teangacha Oifigiúla 2004
Fóram na Gaeilge 2004
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Personal Injuries Assessment Board 2004
Environment, Heritage and Local Government
Private Residential Tenancies Board 2004
Health and Children National Haemophilia Council 2004
Health and Children National Treatment Purchase Fund 2004
Health and Children Irish Expert Body on Fluorides and Health 2004
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Private Security Authority 2004
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Independent Monitoring Commission 2004
Finance Credit Union Advisory Committee 2004
Finance Outside Appointments Board 2004
Finance Irish Financial Services Appeals Tribunal 2004
Finance Financial Services Ombudsman Council 2004
Finance Financial Services Consultative Consumer Panel 2004
Finance Financial Services Consultative Industry Panel 2004
Transport and the Marine Commission for Taxi Regulation 2004
Transport and the Marine Dublin Airport Authority 2004
Transport and the Marine Shannon Airport Authority 2004
Transport and the Marine Cork Airport Authority 2004
Regional Drugs Taskforces (10) 2003
Communications, Energy & Natural resources 2006
Digital Hub Development Agency 2003
Defence Civil Defence Board 2003
Education and Sciences National Council for Special Education 2003
Education and Sciences State Examinations Commission 2003
Foreign Affairs Development Education Advisory Committee 2003
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Remembrance Commission 2003
Finance Decentralisation Implementation Group 2003
Finance National Development Finance Agency 2003
Finance Central Bank and Financial Services Authority of Ireland 2003
Finance Irish Financial Services Regulatory Authority 2003
Social and Family Affairs Family Support Agency 2003
Transport and the Marine Advisory Council to the Commission for Taxi Regulation 2003
Social and Family Affairs Office of the Pensions Ombudsman 2003
Agriculture, Fisheries and Food Consumer Liaison Panel 2002
Agriculture, Fisheries and Food Farm Animal Welfare Advisory Council 2002
Communications, Energy & Natural 2002
Commission for Communications Regulation 2002
Communications, Energy & Natural resources 2002
Sustainable Energy Ireland 2002
Education and Sciences National Education Welfare Board 2002
Education and Sciences National Adult Learning Council 2002
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Irish Council for Bioethics 2002
Foreign Affairs Advisory Board for Irish Aid 2002
Health and Children Mental Health Commission 2002
Health and Children Office for Tobacco Control 2002
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Office of the Inspector of Prisons 2002
Finance Ordnance Survey Ireland 2002
Finance State Claims Agency Policy Committee 2002
Transport and the Marine The Marine Casualty Investigation Board 2002
Agriculture, Fisheries and Food RELAY 2001
Arts, Sport and Tourism Horse Racing Ireland 2001
National Monitoring Committee Overseeing the Operation of repid programme 2001
Education and Sciences Further Education and Training Awards Council 2001
Education and Sciences Higher Education and Training Awards Council 2001
Education and Sciences Irish Research Council for Science, Engineering and technology Education and Sciences National Qualifications Authority of Ireland 2001
Education and Sciences National Youth Work Advisory Council 2001
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Competition Law Review Group 2001
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Office of the Directors Corporate Enforcement 2001
Health and Children Crisis Pregnancy Agency 2001
Health and Children Dental Council 2001
Health and Children Health Insurance Authority 2001
Health and Children National Children's Advisory Council 2001
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Parole Board 2001
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Midlands Prison Visiting Committee 2001
Finance Committee for Performance Awards 2001
Finance National Pensions Reserve Commission 2001
Transport and the Marine Railway Procurement Agency 2001
Transport and the Marine Commission for Aviation Regulation 2001
Arts, Sport and Tourism Tourism Ireland (North/South Body) 2000
National Advisory Committee on Drugs 2000
National Salmon Commission 2000
Education and Sciences Irish Research Council for the Humanities and social sciences 2000
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Advisory Science Council 2000
Enterprise, Trade and Employment National Framework Committee for Work/Life Balance Enterprise, Trade and Employment Science Foundation Ireland 2000
Health and Children Pre Hospital Emergency Care Council 2000
Health and Children Food Safety Consultative Council 2000
Health and Children Scientific Committee of the Food Safety Authority 2000
Justice, Equality and Law Reform National Disability Authority 2000
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Internet Advisory Board 2000
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Office of the Refugee Applications Commissioner 2000
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Refugee Appeals Tribunal 2000
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Cloverhill Prison Visiting Committee 2000
Finance Public Services Benchmarking Body 2000
Social and Family Affairs Citizens Information Board 2000
Arts, Sport and Tourism Irish Sports Council 1999
Bord o Ulstér-Scotch 1999
Foras na Gaeilge 1999
Waterways Ireland 1999
Commission for Energy Regulation 1999
Communications, Energy & Natural Resources 1999
Mining Board 1999
Foyle, Carlingford and Irish Lights Commission 1999
Education and Sciences Integrated Ireland Language and Training Ltd 1999
Enterprise, Trade and Employment InterTrade Ireland 1999
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Skillsnet Limited 1999
Comhar Sustainable Development Council 1999
Environment, Heritage and Local Government 1999
Irish Water Safety 1999
National Traveller Accommodation Committee 1999
Health and Children Food Safety Authority of Ireland 1999
Health and Children Food Safety Promotion Board 1999
Health and Children Institute of Public Health 1999
Health and Children National Council for the Professional Development of Nursing and Midwifery 1999
Health and Children St Luke's Hospital Board 1999
Health and Children National Childcare Coordinating Committee 1999
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Equality Authority 1999
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Independent Monitoring Committee for Refugee Legal Services 1999
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Courts Services 1999
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Independent Commission for the Location of Victims Remains 1999
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Prisons Authority Interim Board 1999
Justice, Equality and Law Reform National Crime Council 1999
Finance Special EU Programmes Body 1999
Finance Civil Service Arbitration Board 1999
Agriculture, Fisheries and Food Aquaculture Licences Appeals 1998
Arts, Sport and Tourism Council of National Cultural Institutions 1998
Education and Sciences Tipperary Institute 1998
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Enterprise Ireland 1998

As well as abolishing the Department of Education and leave this to the market. In addition, HSE would have to go. Welfare is a massive dent on our budget...huge in fact - far bigger than you're letting on. It's needs to be tackled as well as the 750+ quangos.

tayto lover

alastair wrote: »

It's a tax on residential property - they pay on exactly the same basis as everyone else.

"Ronan Lyons’ report on Site Value Tax in Ireland. The report assesses the obstacles to implementing SVT in Ireland and how these can be overcome. It also assesses the revenue potential of the tax and the distribution of land values in Ireland."

If some of these boys get their way it won't be the same at all.

alastair

K3lso wrote: »

Government owned land.

I'd abolish most of these too:

Agriculture, Fisheries and Food Sea Fisheries Protection Authority 2007
Arts, Sport and Tourism National Sports Campus Development Authority 2007
Communications, Energy & Natural
Resources
National Oil Reserves Agency 2007
TG4 2007
Enterprise, Trade and Employment High Level Group on Business Regulation 2007
Enterprise, Trade and Employment National Consumer Agency 2007
Enterprise, Trade and Employment National Employment Rights Authority 2007
Limerick Northside Regeneration Agency 2007
Transport and the Marine Railway Safety Advisory Council 2007
Foreign Affairs Hunger Task Force 2007
Arts, Sport and Tourism Abbey Theatre (Amharclann na Mainistreach) 2006
Arts, Sport and Tourism Crawford Gallery Cork 2006
Arts, Sport and Tourism Fáilte Ireland (National Tourism Development Authority) Community, Rural and Gaeltacht 2006
Dormant Accounts Board 2006
Communications, Energy & Natural resources 2006
Eirgrid 2006
Education and Sciences Education Finance Board 2006
Education and Sciences Grangegorman Development Agency 2006
Education and Sciences The Teaching Council 2006
Enterprise, Trade and Employment IAASA 2006
Health and Children Health Repayment Scheme Appeals Office 2006
Transport and the Marine Railway Safety Commission 2006
Transport and the Marine Integrated Ticketing Project Board 2006
Arts, Sport and Tourism Culture Ireland 2005
Arts, Sport and Tourism National Museum of Ireland 2005
Community, Rural and Gaeltacht 2006
Pobal 2005
Western Development Commission 2005
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Small Business Forum - Implementation Group 2005
Environment, Heritage and Local Governm,ent 2005
Affordable Homes Partnership 2005
Health and Children Health Service Executive 2005
Justice, Equality and Law Reform National Property Services Regulatory Authority 2005
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Commission for the Support of Victims of Crime 2005
Comhairle na Tuaithe 2004
Oifig Choimisinéir na d'Teangacha Oifigiúla 2004
Fóram na Gaeilge 2004
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Personal Injuries Assessment Board 2004
Environment, Heritage and Local Government
Private Residential Tenancies Board 2004
Health and Children National Haemophilia Council 2004
Health and Children National Treatment Purchase Fund 2004
Health and Children Irish Expert Body on Fluorides and Health 2004
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Private Security Authority 2004
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Independent Monitoring Commission 2004
Finance Credit Union Advisory Committee 2004
Finance Outside Appointments Board 2004
Finance Irish Financial Services Appeals Tribunal 2004
Finance Financial Services Ombudsman Council 2004
Finance Financial Services Consultative Consumer Panel 2004
Finance Financial Services Consultative Industry Panel 2004
Transport and the Marine Commission for Taxi Regulation 2004
Transport and the Marine Dublin Airport Authority 2004
Transport and the Marine Shannon Airport Authority 2004
Transport and the Marine Cork Airport Authority 2004
Regional Drugs Taskforces (10) 2003
Communications, Energy & Natural resources 2006
Digital Hub Development Agency 2003
Defence Civil Defence Board 2003
Education and Sciences National Council for Special Education 2003
Education and Sciences State Examinations Commission 2003
Foreign Affairs Development Education Advisory Committee 2003
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Remembrance Commission 2003
Finance Decentralisation Implementation Group 2003
Finance National Development Finance Agency 2003
Finance Central Bank and Financial Services Authority of Ireland 2003
Finance Irish Financial Services Regulatory Authority 2003
Social and Family Affairs Family Support Agency 2003
Transport and the Marine Advisory Council to the Commission for Taxi Regulation 2003
Social and Family Affairs Office of the Pensions Ombudsman 2003
Agriculture, Fisheries and Food Consumer Liaison Panel 2002
Agriculture, Fisheries and Food Farm Animal Welfare Advisory Council 2002
Communications, Energy & Natural 2002
Commission for Communications Regulation 2002
Communications, Energy & Natural resources 2002
Sustainable Energy Ireland 2002
Education and Sciences National Education Welfare Board 2002
Education and Sciences National Adult Learning Council 2002
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Irish Council for Bioethics 2002
Foreign Affairs Advisory Board for Irish Aid 2002
Health and Children Mental Health Commission 2002
Health and Children Office for Tobacco Control 2002
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Office of the Inspector of Prisons 2002
Finance Ordnance Survey Ireland 2002
Finance State Claims Agency Policy Committee 2002
Transport and the Marine The Marine Casualty Investigation Board 2002
Agriculture, Fisheries and Food RELAY 2001
Arts, Sport and Tourism Horse Racing Ireland 2001
National Monitoring Committee Overseeing the Operation of repid programme 2001
Education and Sciences Further Education and Training Awards Council 2001
Education and Sciences Higher Education and Training Awards Council 2001
Education and Sciences Irish Research Council for Science, Engineering and technology Education and Sciences National Qualifications Authority of Ireland 2001
Education and Sciences National Youth Work Advisory Council 2001
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Competition Law Review Group 2001
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Office of the Directors Corporate Enforcement 2001
Health and Children Crisis Pregnancy Agency 2001
Health and Children Dental Council 2001
Health and Children Health Insurance Authority 2001
Health and Children National Children's Advisory Council 2001
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Parole Board 2001
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Midlands Prison Visiting Committee 2001
Finance Committee for Performance Awards 2001
Finance National Pensions Reserve Commission 2001
Transport and the Marine Railway Procurement Agency 2001
Transport and the Marine Commission for Aviation Regulation 2001
Arts, Sport and Tourism Tourism Ireland (North/South Body) 2000
National Advisory Committee on Drugs 2000
National Salmon Commission 2000
Education and Sciences Irish Research Council for the Humanities and social sciences 2000
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Advisory Science Council 2000
Enterprise, Trade and Employment National Framework Committee for Work/Life Balance Enterprise, Trade and Employment Science Foundation Ireland 2000
Health and Children Pre Hospital Emergency Care Council 2000
Health and Children Food Safety Consultative Council 2000
Health and Children Scientific Committee of the Food Safety Authority 2000
Justice, Equality and Law Reform National Disability Authority 2000
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Internet Advisory Board 2000
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Office of the Refugee Applications Commissioner 2000
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Refugee Appeals Tribunal 2000
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Cloverhill Prison Visiting Committee 2000
Finance Public Services Benchmarking Body 2000
Social and Family Affairs Citizens Information Board 2000
Arts, Sport and Tourism Irish Sports Council 1999
Bord o Ulstér-Scotch 1999
Foras na Gaeilge 1999
Waterways Ireland 1999
Commission for Energy Regulation 1999
Communications, Energy & Natural Resources 1999
Mining Board 1999
Foyle, Carlingford and Irish Lights Commission 1999
Education and Sciences Integrated Ireland Language and Training Ltd 1999
Enterprise, Trade and Employment InterTrade Ireland 1999
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Skillsnet Limited 1999
Comhar Sustainable Development Council 1999
Environment, Heritage and Local Government 1999
Irish Water Safety 1999
National Traveller Accommodation Committee 1999
Health and Children Food Safety Authority of Ireland 1999
Health and Children Food Safety Promotion Board 1999
Health and Children Institute of Public Health 1999
Health and Children National Council for the Professional Development of Nursing and Midwifery 1999
Health and Children St Luke's Hospital Board 1999
Health and Children National Childcare Coordinating Committee 1999
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Equality Authority 1999
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Independent Monitoring Committee for Refugee Legal Services 1999
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Courts Services 1999
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Independent Commission for the Location of Victims Remains 1999
Justice, Equality and Law Reform Prisons Authority Interim Board 1999
Justice, Equality and Law Reform National Crime Council 1999
Finance Special EU Programmes Body 1999
Finance Civil Service Arbitration Board 1999
Agriculture, Fisheries and Food Aquaculture Licences Appeals 1998
Arts, Sport and Tourism Council of National Cultural Institutions 1998
Education and Sciences Tipperary Institute 1998
Enterprise, Trade and Employment Enterprise Ireland 1998

As well as abolishing the Department of Education and leave this to the market. In addition, HSE would have to go. Welfare is a massive dent on our budget...huge in fact - far bigger than you're letting on. It's needs to be tackled.

Heh - best of luck with that. Lucky none of that list is doing anything essential eh? And an entirely free market education system? :rolleyes:

alastair

tayto lover wrote: »

"Ronan Lyons’ report on Site Value Tax in Ireland. The report assesses the obstacles to implementing SVT in Ireland and how these can be overcome. It also assesses the revenue potential of the tax and the distribution of land values in Ireland."

If some of these boys get their way it won't be the same at all.

You haven't read it, or if you have, you've managed to completely misunderstand it. There's nothing about exemptions for farmers. Not a jot.

K3lso

alastair wrote: »

Heh - best of luck with that. Lucky none of that list is doing anything essential eh? And an entirely free market education system? :rolleyes:

What quango is doing anything essential?

I would support a market based system in education. Why do you automatically think this is a government duty by default?

bhamsteve

Uriel. wrote: »

Yeah but maybe the person taking the annual skiing holiday has invested considerable years, time, energy and money in both their education, self development and created a decent life. They pay more tax than people "lower down the food chain" but this begrudgery attitude of anyone who has excelled or is successful is really grating. If a property tax is introduced on value based approach, then you would expect the "oober rich" who have bought/developed lavish properties or multiple properties will be paying a multiple of those with an average property

I don't begrudge anyone a good lifestyle, and would wish those who have lived a fortunate or productive life all the trappings of their success. The fact of the matter is that we now live in a bankrupt state and until the books are balanced the money has to come from somewhere, for the next few years at least.
One group of society cannot be expected to be struggling to feed/ clothe themselves while others are driving in their new 2012 BMWs. That is unless we follow the American free market economy model, and have such a disgraceful levels of economic inequality that borders on modern day slavery.

alastair

K3lso wrote: »

What quango is doing anything essential?

I would support a market based system in education. Why do you automatically think this is a government duty by default?

You've obviously no notion of a social contract. And nowhere (that's nowhere - even the most free-market driven nations) leaves education to the market.

mikom

bhamsteve wrote: »

That is unless we follow the American free market economy model, and have such a disgraceful levels of economic inequality that borders on modern day slavery.

That runway has been greased already with the "jobbridge" internships.

dvpower

K3lso wrote: »

What quango is doing anything essential?

I would support a market based system in education. Why do you automatically think this is a government duty by default?

There is no appetite in this country for a privatised education system. You need to come up with proposals that have some chance of being implemented.

Its all very well and good to list off 100 quangos and say you'd abolish most of them. Which of them and why? The fact that you just list them all off indicates that you haven't critically evaluated any of them.

dvpower

bhamsteve wrote: »

One group of society cannot be expected to be struggling to feed/ clothe themselves while others are driving in their new 2012 BMWs.

That's 2816 people. I think you need to lower the bar a bit.