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Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

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    #2072
    bhamsteve
    Closed Accounts Posts: 451 ✭✭bhamsteve


    dvpower wrote: »
    That's 2816 people. I think you need to lower the bar a bit.

    Must just be a Leitrim thing then, the amount of 2012 cars, BMWs, Audis, Lexus included seems very high considering the state of the economy.


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    #2073
    tunedout
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 448 ✭✭tunedout


    ALI?


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    #2074
    tunedout
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 448 ✭✭tunedout


    alistair?


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    #2075
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    alastair wrote: »
    You're/we're not even paying once at the moment - hence the deficit.
    dvpower wrote: »
    I'm not sure what system they could come up with that would allow the rate of property tax to be tied to lower usage; it would seem to me to be impossible to implement. I guess you could have a lower rate for rural dwellers (which will likely be the case anyway, as its going to be valuation based), but that would be a very blunt instrument.

    In any case, even before the property tax, you were paying for local services via other forms of taxation, so even if they decided to fund the shortfall by, say, a rise in Income Tax, you'll end up paying it anyway.
    The property tax doesn't introduce any substantial additional inequity.

    Which one of the two should we believe.


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    #2076
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    darkhorse wrote: »
    Which one of the two should we believe.
    It might have been more accurate to say that services were being paid for effectively out of borrowings, a situation that is clearly untenable now.


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    #2077
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    darkhorse wrote: »
    Which one of the two should we believe.

    Both are true. We are paying for services, but what we are paying isn't covering the full cost of those services.

    Really - this is basic stuff.


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    #2078
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,927 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alastair wrote: »
    You haven't read it, or if you have, you've managed to completely misunderstand it. There's nothing about exemptions for farmers. Not a jot.

    There is no mention of farmers at all.


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    #2079
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    There is no mention of farmers at all.

    This report?.
    No mention of exemptions for farmers in there.


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    #2080
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    There is no mention of farmers at all.

    So why namecheck it in relation to your theory that farmers' houses would be treated differently to anyone else's when it comes to the property tax?

    Again - all residential property owners are liable.


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    #2081
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    bhamsteve wrote: »
    Must just be a Leitrim thing then, the amount of 2012 cars, BMWs, Audis, Lexus included seems very high considering the state of the economy.

    Since the motor tax changes, it's been a no-brainer to get yourself a 520D or similar if you need/want a fancy saloon. The rapid abandonment of big petrol engined yokes for oil burners has meant a bit of a distortion in what's selling most. Lots of discounted Renaults and diesel BMW's.


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    #2082
    tunedout
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 448 ✭✭tunedout


    Allo?


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    #2083
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    bhamsteve wrote: »
    I don't begrudge anyone a good lifestyle, and would wish those who have lived a fortunate or productive life all the trappings of their success. The fact of the matter is that we now live in a bankrupt state and until the books are balanced the money has to come from somewhere, for the next few years at least.
    One group of society cannot be expected to be struggling to feed/ clothe themselves while others are driving in their new 2012 BMWs. That is unless we follow the American free market economy model, and have such a disgraceful levels of economic inequality that borders on modern day slavery.

    Why shouldn't successful people drive "their new 2012 BMWs"? Are you saying that when we go bankrupt that we should turn into a communist state? Are you saying that X individual who earns say €0.5m salary should pay something like a 90% tax on all earnings over minimum wage?

    If you hit the high earners with crazy taxes, they will be gone and taking their experience, knowledge and spending power with them. Don't forget, the rich contribute most to State coffers.


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    #2084
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tunedout wrote: »
    ALI?
    tunedout wrote: »
    alistair?
    tunedout wrote: »
    Allo?

    If you're looking to meet someone, would you just send a PM or join a dating site.


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    #2085
    tunedout
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 448 ✭✭tunedout


    Al?


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    #2086
    K3lso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭K3lso


    alastair wrote: »
    You've obviously no notion of a social contract. And nowhere (that's nowhere - even the most free-market driven nations) leaves education to the market.
    dvpower wrote: »
    There is no appetite in this country for a privatised education system. You need to come up with proposals that have some chance of being implemented.

    Its all very well and good to list off 100 quangos and say you'd abolish most of them. Which of them and why? The fact that you just list them all off indicates that you haven't critically evaluated any of them.

    Firstly, I don't recall signing any "social contract", whatever that means...

    Secondly, there is no "God-given" right to the organisation of education and thus, no legislators have been thurst upon them any special dispensations from the sky either. It has always been our journey to take and discover what probable cheaper alternative works best to provide efficiency and performance - and to this end, there is no better means than the competitive process i.e - the market.

    I think we ultimately rest our opinions on a magnitude of issues with the mentality that "ah sure, it's always been this way...so I couldn't imagine it any other". Perhaps that's what it is - a lack of imagination, a lack of vision.
    And it exists in every industry across the board that we allow our government to get involved in. I can't give you all the answered now because the fact is that I just don't know. I don't know how to even contemplate the concept of the dynamism of the free market - millions of peoples contributing to a paiting.

    It's akin to wondering what the Wright Brothers did seconds after landing their aircraft for the first time by worrying themselves with questions about commercial airline industries, where investment will come from, what uniforms the airhostesses would wear, would food and films be available mid-flight, where would the tickets be produced and who would train the pilots. As you can imagine, this is all speculative just as we sit on the edge of privatisation. But what we can do is make some logical observations.

    The first would be that everything you've come to think of education would be thrown out the window. There would be a market not just for children and adults as there are now, but classes of mixed ages. There would be mixed schools and gender specific buildings, religious and non-religious, examination based and weekly apptitude schools, schools that followed different testing proceedures, no leaving cert, no junior cert, no government produced curriculum, charity schools, community schools, franchise schools, church schools, no system designed for unions but for parents among a host of others, schools that start at 9am - others that start at 9pm. The possibilities are endless if we allowed the market to take over.


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    #2087
    tunedout
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 448 ✭✭tunedout


    dvpower wrote: »
    If you're looking to meet someone, would you just send a PM or join a dating site.

    I not going paying my property tax. can you ask Al for me if it just or not if you meet him. tell him i say it's an unfair tax too.


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    #2088
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    One more for the ignore button.


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    #2089
    tunedout
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 448 ✭✭tunedout


    Allo?


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    #2090
    K3lso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭K3lso


    alastair wrote: »
    One more for the ignore button.

    You ignore people you don't agree with?


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    #2091
    tunedout
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 448 ✭✭tunedout


    K3lso wrote: »
    You ignore people you don't agree with?
    that's unjust :(


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    #2092
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    K3lso wrote: »
    You ignore people you don't agree with?

    If somebody was posting the sh1te quoted below in a debate/discussion with me on something, I'd be ignoring them to in fairness.

    tunedout wrote: »
    I not going paying my property tax. can you ask Al for me if it just or not if you meet him. tell him i say it's an unfair tax too.
    tunedout wrote: »
    Allo?
    tunedout wrote: »
    ALI?
    tunedout wrote: »
    alistair?
    tunedout wrote: »
    Allo?
    tunedout wrote: »
    Al?


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    #2093
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    If there was ever proof needed that Croke Park needs to be abolished it is Sligo County Councils budget deficit. They effectively can not reduce their wage bill and have too many staff being moved around different departments to try and find them work which doesn't exist.

    They badly need to cut their cloth to their income. And the government in bed with the unions is not going to help.


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    #2094
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    K3lso wrote: »
    Firstly, I don't recall signing any "social contract", whatever that means

    You were saying something about 'lack of imagination'?


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    #2095
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    They badly need to cut their cloth to their income.
    I'd imagine actually getting all their income would help matters too. Pity not everyone sees fit to pay their way.


  • Options
    #2096
    tunedout
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 448 ✭✭tunedout


    Ali boy?


  • Options
    #2097
    tunedout
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 448 ✭✭tunedout


    Uriel. wrote: »
    If somebody was posting the sh1te quoted below in a debate/discussion with me on something, I'd be ignoring them to in fairness.
    hey mate.





    noone aksed you.

    when we want a running commentary off you, we'll come for it.


  • Options
    #2098
    K3lso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭K3lso


    alastair wrote: »
    You were saying something about 'lack of imagination'?

    You need an imagination to predetermine the outcome or what possibilities would part take in a free and open economy. We cannot predict conclusively the needs of nearly 5 million people - but we do know what system is capable, more than capable of servicing every human desire.

    Contast that with what you have done. You haven't asked me to 'imagine' an invisible contract, you have demanded that I participate in a "social" agreement of some sort to which I have no interest in. They are two completely different things. I don't know how you've managed to compare them.


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    #2099
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    tunedout wrote: »
    hey mate.





    noone aksed you.

    when we want a running commentary off you, we'll come for it.
    :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #2100
    bhamsteve
    Closed Accounts Posts: 451 ✭✭bhamsteve


    Uriel. wrote: »
    Why shouldn't successful people drive "their new 2012 BMWs"? Are you saying that when we go bankrupt that we should turn into a communist state? Are you saying that X individual who earns say €0.5m salary should pay something like a 90% tax on all earnings over minimum wage?

    If you hit the high earners with crazy taxes, they will be gone and taking their experience, knowledge and spending power with them. Don't forget, the rich contribute most to State coffers.

    You are putting a lot of words into my mouth. I don't believe in hitting anyone with 90% tax, but their is a mid-ground. A couple more percent on the top rate of income tax wouldn't hurt anyone too much, and if they did leave the country as a result then so be it, I'm sure someone else could step into their shoes.
    I don't think there are many people with absolutely unique talents and abilities that warrant such obscene wages, especially not when paid for partly or fully out of the public purse (see Angela Kerins, hospital consultants earning 3 times their german counterparts).


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    #2101
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 50,630 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    tunedout wrote: »
    Ali? You there man?
    tunedout wrote: »
    ALI?
    tunedout wrote: »
    alistair?
    tunedout wrote: »
    Allo?
    tunedout wrote: »
    Al?
    tunedout wrote: »
    I not going paying my property tax. can you ask Al for me if it just or not if you meet him. tell him i say it's an unfair tax too.
    tunedout wrote: »
    Allo?
    tunedout wrote: »
    Ali boy?
    tunedout wrote: »
    hey mate.

    noone aksed you.

    when we want a running commentary off you, we'll come for it.

    Mod

    Don't post in this thread again


This discussion has been closed.
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