Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

Uriel.

bhamsteve wrote: »

You are putting a lot of words into my mouth. I don't believe in hitting anyone with 90% tax, but their is a mid-ground. A couple more percent on the top rate of income tax wouldn't hurt anyone too much, and if they did leave the country as a result then so be it, I'm sure someone else could step into their shoes.
I don't think there are many people with absolutely unique talents and abilities that warrant such obscene wages, especially not when paid for partly or fully out of the public purse (see Angela Kerins, hospital consultants earning 3 times their german counterparts).

I didn't put any words into your mouth. I was simply asking questions to get a feel for the type of policy your believe should be in place.

When you say that someone will step into the shoes of people who leave the country due to tax changes, are you referring to solely the relatively few public service top earners, or are you talking about top earners in general?

bhamsteve

Uriel. wrote: »

I didn't put any words into your mouth. I was simply asking questions to get a feel for the type of policy your believe should be in place.

When you say that someone will step into the shoes of people who leave the country due to tax changes, are you referring to solely the relatively few public service top earners, or are you talking about top earners in general?

I very much doubt a couple of percentage raise in top rate income tax would cause a brain drain, but I'm not an expert in the area. You can't get away from the fact the the wages in Ireland for high earning professions are comparatively high, considering the state of the Irish economy.
I was referring to the public sector and semi-state in particular, but would include all high earners.

gerryo777

darkhorse wrote: »

Which one of the two should we believe.

Neither, the gruesome twosome have no ideas about anything.

Even today, every idea or suggestion put forward has been laughed at and mocked.

It must be a sad state of mind when everything put forward by different posters is automatically put down and that combined with a complete inability to think outside the box leads me to believe that it's just a load of trolling by two very sad people.

Move on guys, don't feed them.

alastair

gerryo777 wrote: »

Neither, the gruesome twosome have no ideas about anything.

Even today, every idea or suggestion put forward has been laughed at and mocked.

so, that's a second vote for a free market education system then?

dvpower

This is starting to look somewhat like an obsession. Aren't you just back from a ban for this kind of goading?

gerryo777 wrote: »

Neither, the gruesome twosome have no ideas about anything.

gerryo777 wrote: »

Move on guys, don't feed them.

gerryo777 wrote: »

Sometimes someone else will quote them and there words are there to be seen, you just have to try and ignore that too. DFTT and they go away.

gerryo777 wrote: »

Do you know the expression 'same sh1te, different day'?
That's the two lads for you.

No ideas about anything else, they just sit around smugly calling people 'tax defaulters'.

gerryo777 wrote: »

You'll get used to comical ali, his double standards are legendary!

gerryo777

alastair wrote: »

so, that's a second vote for a free market education system then?

I've said that I won't feed you, but you really should start a sentence with a capital letter.
Great education system ok.
Back to ignore.
LMAO

gerryo777

dvpower wrote: »

This is starting to look somewhat like an obsession. Aren't you just back from a ban for this kind of goading?

Your something to talk about obsession's. LOL.

Report me again why don't you? Your good at that.

I'd love to meet you face to face...

Back to ignore.

Mod: Banned.

dvpower

gerryo777 wrote: »

I'd love to meet you face to face...

This really is bizarre behavior.

alastair

gerryo777 wrote: »

I'd love to meet you face to face...

Young love blossoms.

KeithM89_old

gerryo777 wrote: »

I've said that I won't feed you, but you really should start a sentence with a capital letter.
Great education system ok.
Back to ignore.
LMAO

Banned.

kr7

Just checked in to have a look and on this page alone there's 2 posters banned and then thanked only by dvpower.
What's going on, can posters not disagree with dv without getting a ban?
It's getting to the stage where it's not worth posting anything in case dv reports it..

alastair

I'd imagine it's more to do with the implied threats of violence posted? Has anyone stopped you posting?

kr7

alastair wrote: »

I'd imagine it's more to do with the implied threats of violence posted? Has anyone stopped you posting?

No.
But I have been warned and it's only when the interaction is between me and you or dv.

Out of interest, where's the implied threat's of violence you speak of?

kr7

kr7 wrote: »

Just checked in to have a look and on this page alone there's 2 posters banned and then thanked only by dvpower.
What's going on, can posters not disagree with dv without getting a ban?
It's getting to the stage where it's not worth posting anything in case dv reports it..

kr7 wrote: »

No.
But I have been warned and it's only when the interaction is between me and you or dv.

Out of interest, where's the implied threat's of violence you speak of?

If you have an issue with a mod's decision take to pm, do not derail the thread any further

Dub XV

Anyway after all the derailing with comparisons with motor tax......

No I can't afford it.

dvpower

kr7 wrote: »

What's going on, can posters not disagree with dv without getting a ban?

Can we sticky this instruction? It might impose a bit of order around here. :eek:

kr7

dvpower wrote: »

Can we sticky this instruction? It might impose a bit of order around here. :eek:

dv, if you would engage properly with other posters and try not to wind people up all the time we might have a better, more interesting thread here.

There's no need for passive/aggressive type posts, they do nothing for your own credibility or this thread in general.

lugha

Dub XV wrote: »

No I can't afford it.

There will be many (the majority I would say) who can’t afford it or will struggle considerably to pay it, just as virtually everyone will struggle desperately as we try to to close a deficit which would require an additional tax contribution of the order of €10,000 per worker per year. This won’t of course all come from new taxes but it will, or the great bulk of it, will come from the people, one way or the other. Even the “excessive” likely rates being thrown around of €500 or even €1,000 will barely make a dent in our deficit.

And we have to address our deficit problem. It is not like a debt where we might hold on to some slim hope of a write off, or debt pooling or even default. Even if we were willing to pile up the problems for future generations by ignoring the deficit, no lender it prepared to afford us that option.

Again I say, there is a widespread failure to appreciate exactly how much trouble we are in and the massive sacrifices all manner of ordinary people will have to make to dig ourselves out of it.

dvpower

kr7 wrote: »

dv, if you would engage properly with other posters and try not to wind people up all the time we might have a better, more interesting thread here.

There's no need for passive/aggressive type posts, they do nothing for your own credibility or this thread in general.

I'm sorry

(aren't you just off a month long ban?)

kr7

dvpower wrote: »

I'm sorry

(aren't you just off a month long ban?)

4 days, that's all it was.

galwayrush

A property tax won't help us get us out of the mess we're in until we stop wasting money. Massive salaries/ pensions/ and various generous bonuses for the elite will eat up whatever gains this tax will bring.

kr7

lugha wrote: »

There will be many (the majority I would say) who can’t afford it or will struggle considerably to pay it, just as virtually everyone will struggle desperately as we try to to close a deficit which would require an additional tax contribution of the order of €10,000 per worker per year. This won’t of course all come from new taxes but it will, or the great bulk of it, will come from the people, one way or the other. Even the “excessive” likely rates being thrown around of €500 or even €1,000 will barely make a dent in our deficit.

And we have to address our deficit problem. It is not like a debt where we might hold on to some slim hope of a write off, or debt pooling or even default. Even if we were willing to pile up the problems for future generations by ignoring the deficit, no lender it prepared to afford us that option.

Again I say, there is a widespread failure to appreciate exactly how much trouble we are in and the massive sacrifices all manner of ordinary people will have to make to dig ourselves out of it.

I think everyone in the country is feeling the effects of the mess FF made of the country. (apart from enda's advisors, politicians in general, the upper echelance in the PS/CS and a few more like that).

Federalising the debt that most countries in europe are struggling under will have to happen, I don't know how that's going to work out but it'll have to be done.

The cost of all the cutbacks and tax hikes should be measured not just in monetary terms but in social terms as well.

We will end up with a more divided society than ever and we will reap the 'rewards' for that into the future.

We'll see then if the course of action taken now was worth it.

Ghandee

I'm trying to enjoy a beer tonight, just having a peek online.

I made a suggestion earlier about how the unions would object to any effort of revenue deducting at source.

This was dismissed immediately, reason being it would compromise the CPA.


Does that statement alone not show us on its own how ballsed up that is?

Eh, sorry lads, we can't upset every home owner in the land, we've to honour the CPA, after all.

Hello? Scrap it, then come back and ask everyone else to 'do their bit'?

dxhound2005

lugha wrote: »

There will be many (the majority I would say) who can’t afford it or will struggle considerably to pay it, just as virtually everyone will struggle desperately as we try to to close a deficit which would require an additional tax contribution of the order of €10,000 per worker per year. This won’t of course all come from new taxes but it will, or the great bulk of it, will come from the people, one way or the other. Even the “excessive” likely rates being thrown around of €500 or even €1,000 will barely make a dent in our deficit.

And we have to address our deficit problem. It is not like a debt where we might hold on to some slim hope of a write off, or debt pooling or even default. Even if we were willing to pile up the problems for future generations by ignoring the deficit, no lender it prepared to afford us that option.

Again I say, there is a widespread failure to appreciate exactly how much trouble we are in and the massive sacrifices all manner of ordinary people will have to make to dig ourselves out of it.

I don't think a majority of private property owners should have struggled to come up with €100 over the first three months of the year thus leaving themselves free of any further liabilites until next year. What the amount next year will be is speculation. There are approx 760,000 domestic mortgages in the country apparently, well less than half of the overall total of houses so that majority should have been in a position to pay. The majority of mortgages are not in arrears. There is high unemployment but still about 1.8 million people are at work about 1.5 million of them in the private sector.

Between Sky and UPC upwards of a million people are paying for TV which doesn't suggest that those families are struggling for money. €5 billion a year is spent on foreign holidays. The average household throws away €700 to €1000 a year (depends what source you read) in food which they buy and then don't eat. There is about €120 billion held in private savings accounts and the savings ratio is among the highest in Europe. About €100 million every quarter is recovered by the Revenue Commissioners from tax defaulters with bogus overseas accounts etc.

Taking the long view the country has had property tax for more years than not and its return after some years of absence will be something which people will get used to. No likely government that I can think of in the future will do away with it again.

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

There will be many (the majority I would say) who can’t afford it or will struggle considerably to pay it, just as virtually everyone will struggle desperately as we try to to close a deficit which would require an additional tax contribution of the order of €10,000 per worker per year. This won’t of course all come from new taxes but it will, or the great bulk of it, will come from the people, one way or the other. Even the “excessive” likely rates being thrown around of €500 or even €1,000 will barely make a dent in our deficit.

And we have to address our deficit problem. It is not like a debt where we might hold on to some slim hope of a write off, or debt pooling or even default. Even if we were willing to pile up the problems for future generations by ignoring the deficit, no lender it prepared to afford us that option.

Again I say, there is a widespread failure to appreciate exactly how much trouble we are in and the massive sacrifices all manner of ordinary people will have to make to dig ourselves out of it.

I get the feeling from several of your posts that you are, and have been talking to members here as if we are all imbeciles and we really hav'nt a clue about the failed economic state that our country is in, albeit maybe not for anyone that is in a position to procure rises in salary(its just tough that we were not all fortunate to end up in such positions).
Although you are right about the deficit, which I think the majority of us, if not all, know what state the country is in financially, the ordinary low paid workers do not have any more to give. Its just as simple as that, no matter what you, me or anybody say. I know I have nothing left to give.

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I don't think a majority of private property owners should have struggled to come up with €100 over the first three months of the year thus leaving themselves free of any further liabilites until next year. What the amount next year will be is speculation. There are approx 760,000 domestic mortgages in the country apparently, well less than half of the overall total of houses so that majority should have been in a position to pay. The majority of mortgages are not in arrears. There is high unemployment but still about 1.8 million people are at work about 1.5 million of them in the private sector.

Between Sky and UPC upwards of a million people are paying for TV which doesn't suggest that those families are struggling for money. €5 billion a year is spent on foreign holidays. The average household throws away €700 to €1000 a year (depends what source you read) in food which they buy and then don't eat. There is about €120 billion held in private savings accounts and the savings ratio is among the highest in Europe. About €100 million every quarter is recovered by the Revenue Commissioners from tax defaulters with bogus overseas accounts etc.

Taking the long view the country has had property tax for more years than not and its return after some years of absence will be something which people will get used to. No likely government that I can think of in the future will do away with it again.

Dx summary.


Sit at home, buy what you need from lidl (daily incase you waste) watch trivial shyte on rte or tv3 and pay up to the govt, whatever they demand. (after working your butt off all week)

In short, slavery or communism.

darkhorse

kr7 wrote: »

4 days, that's all it was.

And now that you're back, I'm gonna relax and have a few drinks.:):)

kr7

darkhorse wrote: »

And now that you're back, I'm gonna relax and have a few drinks.:):)

Me too.

Was looking online for something and I came across this.

http://www.harrowobserver.co.uk/west-london-news/local-harrow-news/2012/08/09/senior-council-staff-face-pay-cuts-116451-31577570/

How come this type of thing can't happen here, you know, cut the guys at the top and give a bit more to the people who need it and will spend it in the local economy.

Over here we just cut the masses to reward the parasites at the top.

NB, yer man in the photo looks a bit freaky......

K3lso

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Taking the long view the country has had property tax for more years than not and its return after some years of absence will be something which people will get used to. No likely government that I can think of in the future will do away with it again.

Between all the talk of people being able to afford it or not, holidays, UPC, Sky and other claims - you're missing the fundamental point in all of this; nobody wants to pay it, and for what exactly? If I make a purchase, it has been voluntary as I assume I'm going to be in a better position utility wise than I was beforehand. The point being is that I made the choice independently to spend the fruits of my own labour. I couldn't give two shiny sh!ites if you were a multi-billionaire, I'd still defend you from paying this tax on your own privately owned property.

It seems that in Ireland that when the school teachers and secretaries over spend in the Dail or decide to bail out friends in high places, the unrestricted enjoyment of property ownership is no longer permitted, since government now has the power to tax, regulate, and inevitably even confiscate just about anything it pleases. Property is anything which is owned. Ownership is the right to possess, use, and/or dispose of anything to which one has a moral claim. No bureaucrat sitting in an office somewhere has a moral claim on my home.

For me, it's not about not being able to afford it. For me, I'm not paying rent on something that belongs to me because some idiot in an office somewhere thinks government incompetence somehow justifies his meddling in my private property.

darkhorse

kr7 wrote: »

Me too.

Was looking online for something and I came across this.

http://www.harrowobserver.co.uk/west-london-news/local-harrow-news/2012/08/09/senior-council-staff-face-pay-cuts-116451-31577570/

How come this type of thing can't happen here, you know, cut the guys at the top and give a bit more to the people who need it and will spend it in the local economy.

Over here we just cut the masses to reward the parasites at the top.

NB, yer man in the photo looks a bit freaky......

He looks like Ken Dodd, who incidentally joked that he applied for a job in the tax revenue, as he would like to be closer to his money. Soon we will all be applying for a job in revenue.:):):)