Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

Ghandee

K3lso wrote: »

Between all the talk of people being able to afford it or not, holidays, UPC, Sky and other claims - you're missing the fundamental point in all of this; nobody wants to pay it, and for what exactly? If I make a purchase, it has been voluntary as I assume I'm going to be in a better position utility wise than I was beforehand. The point being is that I made the choice independently to spend the fruits of my own labour. I couldn't give two shiny sh!ites if you were a multi-billionaire, I'd still defend you from paying this tax on your own privately owned property.

It seems that in Ireland that when the school teachers and secretaries over spend in the Dail or decide to bail out friends in high places, the unrestricted enjoyment of property ownership is no longer permitted, since government now has the power to tax, regulate, and inevitably even confiscate just about anything it pleases. Property is anything which is owned. Ownership is the right to possess, use, and/or dispose of anything to which one has a moral claim. No bureaucrat sitting in an office somewhere has a moral claim on my home.

For me, it's not about not being able to afford it. For me, I'm not paying rent on something that belongs to me because some idiot in an office somewhere thinks government incompetence somehow justifies his meddling in my private property.

Deserves to be quoted tbh.

Excellent post.

kr7

darkhorse wrote: »

He looks like Ken Dodd, who incidentally joked that he applied for a job in the tax revenue, as he would like to be closer to his money. Soon we will all be applying for a job in revenue.:):):)

I'd rather be a Ken Dodd than a faceless bureaucrat who will leave nothing as a legacy!

dxhound2005

K3lso wrote: »

Between all the talk of people being able to afford it or not, holidays, UPC, Sky and other claims - you're missing the fundamental point in all of this; nobody wants to pay it, and for what exactly? If I make a purchase, it has been voluntary as I assume I'm going to be in a better position utility wise than I was beforehand. The point being is that I made the choice independently to spend the fruits of my own labour. I couldn't give two shiny sh!ites if you were a multi-billionaire, I'd still defend you from paying this tax on your own privately owned property.

It seems that in Ireland that when the school teachers and secretaries over spend in the Dail or decide to bail out friends in high places, the unrestricted enjoyment of property ownership is no longer permitted, since government now has the power to tax, regulate, and inevitably even confiscate just about anything it pleases. Property is anything which is owned. Ownership is the right to possess, use, and/or dispose of anything to which one has a moral claim. No bureaucrat sitting in an office somewhere has a moral claim on my home.

For me, it's not about not being able to afford it. For me, I'm not paying rent on something that belongs to me because some idiot in an office somewhere thinks government incompetence somehow justifies his meddling in my private property.

The penalties in the Household Charge are less oppressive than those in some other countries where your house could be seized or you could be declared bankrupt for instance for not paying property tax on private homes. But it does include the provision that no transfer of property can take place until all outstanding payments are discharged so this is something which all defaulters will come up against in the long run.

bhamsteve

For me, this is exactly why were all fecked, and no amount of austerity, tax rises or belt tightening will get us out of this hole.

[A TOP tier of HSE managers will keep their lucrative salaries of up to €160,000 a year even if they lose their jobs in an upcoming reshuffle of senior management]

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hse-top-brass-to-keep-high-pay-after-jobs-cull-3136647.html

For as long as this kind of crap continues, I'd rather get locked up than hand over 1000euro i don't have.

K3lso

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The penalties in the Household Charge are less oppressive than those in some other countries where your house could be seized or you could be declared bankrupt for instance for not paying property tax on private homes. But it does include the provision that no transfer of property can take place until all outstanding payments are discharged so this is something which all defaulters will come up against in the long run.

What you have described, whether you realise it or not or whether you support it or not, is tyranny.

kr7

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The penalties in the Household Charge are less oppressive than those in some other countries where your house could be seized or you could be declared bankrupt for instance for not paying property tax on private homes. But it does include the provision that no transfer of property can take place until all outstanding payments are discharged so this is something which all defaulters will come up against in the long run.

What countries have the above mentioned penalties?

later12

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The penalties in the Household Charge are less oppressive than those in some other countries where your house could be seized or you could be declared bankrupt for instance for not paying property tax on private homes. But it does include the provision that no transfer of property can take place until all outstanding payments are discharged so this is something which all defaulters will come up against in the long run.

Hmm, I dunno dxhound. Some people hang onto their homes for generations; especially in the countryside. It's a very abstract threat for a lot of families..

alastair

K3lso wrote: »

For me, it's not about not being able to afford it. For me, I'm not paying rent on something that belongs to me because some idiot in an office somewhere thinks government incompetence somehow justifies his meddling in my private property.

Your car is just as private, your salary is just as hard earned from the fruits of your labour - and yet you pay taxes on those. There's nothing special about your house that would differentiate it in terms of taxation. Houses used to be liable for rates - same thing. Go anywhere else in the world and buy a house - pay property tax or rates. Government incompetence didn't create the deficit - although it certainly didn't do much to stop it - and the deficit is still real enough - even it's entirely someone elses' fault - no-one's going to carry the can except us. Sad but true.

kr7

bhamsteve wrote: »

For me, this is exactly why were all fecked, and no amount of austerity, tax rises or belt tightening will get us out of this hole.

[A TOP tier of HSE managers will keep their lucrative salaries of up to €160,000 a year even if they lose their jobs in an upcoming reshuffle of senior management]

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hse-top-brass-to-keep-high-pay-after-jobs-cull-3136647.html

For as long as this kind of crap continues, I'd rather get locked up than hand over 1000euro i don't have.

And we go to europe and ask them to 'give us a break'?

We will get no sympathy from the rest of europe when the officials we send to try and get a better deal for us are getting paid multiple times the salary's of the counterparts they're dealing with.

Laughable!

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The penalties in the Household Charge are less oppressive than those in some other countries where your house could be seized or you could be declared bankrupt for instance for not paying property tax on private homes. But it does include the provision that no transfer of property can take place until all outstanding payments are discharged so this is something which all defaulters will come up against in the long run.

kr7 wrote: »

What countries have the above mentioned penalties?

Here is one not too far away.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/what-happens-if-i-don-t-pay-my-rates

kr7

alastair wrote: »

Government incompetence didn't create the deficit

Are you serious?

kr7

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Here is one not too far away.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/what-happens-if-i-don-t-pay-my-rates

I thought you'd mention the UK alright.

Will you now show us what they get for their money in the UK compared to here?

Will you also show us who is liable to pay rates / council tax in the UK?

dxhound2005

later12 wrote: »

Hmm, I dunno dxhound. Some people hang onto their homes for generations; especially in the countryside. It's a very abstract threat for a lot of families..

There is a legal process in passing property between generations. The solicitors and executors are legally obliged to discharge the debt, otherwise title cannot be transferred.

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There is a legal process in passing property between generations. The solicitors and executors are legally obliged to discharge the debt, otherwise title cannot be transferred.

Anyone else read this with their nose in the air?

dxhound2005

kr7 wrote: »

I thought you'd mention the UK alright.

Will you now show us what they get for their money in the UK compared to here?

Will you also show us who is liable to pay rates / council tax in the UK?

Just as a comparison this year I am paying €280 for bins and €100 Household Charge. Nothing else. Average Council Tax in England is £1200 and they pay for water on top of that. I said before you can't lay down the conditions under which you pay a tax you are liable for even if it is a new one.

Am Chile

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There is a legal process in passing property between generations. The solicitors and executors are legally obliged to discharge the debt, otherwise title cannot be transferred.

Its odd you from time to time you keep posting the exact same info and every time you post it you always keep omiting the fact the household tax/charge can only be applied as a charge against a property for a period of 12 years-which its doubtful it will be still be around for 12 years.

kr7

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There is a legal process in passing property between generations. The solicitors and executors are legally obliged to discharge the debt, otherwise title cannot be transferred.

I'm 40 odd now and when I die, hopefully not for another 40 odd years, my house will go to my youngest.
She's 2 and a bit and she could live here for a long time before the property has to be transferred into her name.
So maybe in 70 or 80 years the transfer will have to be made.
By that stage, who knows what state the world will be in!

kr7

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Just as a comparison this year I am paying €280 for bins and €100 Household Charge. Nothing else. Average Council Tax in England is £1200 and they pay for water on top of that. I said before you can't lay down the conditions under which you pay a tax you are liable for even if it is a new one.

My bin collection costs about €540 per year. Haven't, nor won't pay a ground rent on my home.

Tell me now exactly what people in England get for their council tax compared to here?

dxhound2005

Am Chile wrote: »

Its odd you from time to time you keep posting the exact same info and every time you post it you always keep omiting the fact the household tax/charge can only be applied as a charge against a property for a period of 12 years-which its doubtful it will be still be around for 12 years.

That is selling a house and I read on the internet of at least one case already where a seller had to pay up to complete the sale.

In the case of death the liability passes to the executors after three months I think. Soliciitors cannot be complicit in tax avoidance otherwise they face penalties as well.

dxhound2005

kr7 wrote: »

My bin collection costs about €540 per year. Haven't, nor won't pay a ground rent on my home.

Tell me now exactly what people in England get for their council tax compared to here?

I don't know exactly.

halkar

I do not understand this tax. Mortgage holders are not house owners. Houses are owned by the banks. They should be the ones paying the property taxes until mortgages cleared and title deeds passed. There are many clauses in the mortgage applications remind you that you do not own the house until all of the loan is paid.

kr7

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I don't know exactly.

Shall we start with refuse collection, GP visits,prescription charges, school books, school transport and meals?

kr7

And, dx, can I also mention the fact that renters and LA tenants are also liable for council charges in the UK?

kr7

Can you see where I'm going with this?

darkhorse

halkar wrote: »

I do not understand this tax. Mortgage holders are not house owners. Houses are owned by the banks. They should be the ones paying the property taxes until mortgages cleared and title deeds passed. There are many clauses in the mortgage applications remind you that you do not own the house until all of the loan is paid.

At last. Thank you. I have been saying this all along.

later12

halkar wrote: »

I do not understand this tax. Mortgage holders are not house owners. Houses are owned by the banks. They should be the ones paying the property taxes until mortgages cleared and title deeds passed.

I don't think anyone ever said the tax is just for home owners.

It's for residing householders with a long term interest in the property - tenants with leases of 20+ years, for example, will have to pay the charge on the property they rent.

kr7

later12 wrote: »

I don't think anyone ever said the tax is just for home owners.

It's for residing householders with a long term interest in the property - tenants with leases of 20+ years, for example, will have to pay the charge on the property they rent.

That's news to me, but anyway,how many tenants have a 20+ years lease on the property they rent?
Why would someone with a 1 year lease not have an interest in the property they rent?

later12

kr7 wrote: »

That's news to me, but anyway,how many tenants have a 20+ years lease on the property they rent?
Why would someone with a 1 year lease not have an interest in the property they lease?

It's common enough in some cases. I know someone with a 99 year lease @ €1 per year, but it's related to his job.

I assume it's meant to cover that sort of scenario.

kr7

later12 wrote: »

It's common enough in some cases. I know someone with a 99 year lease @ €1 per year, but it's related to his job.

I assume it's meant to cover that sort of scenario.

But what's the difference? 20 years or 1 year, the money is needed for the services they use, no?

Am Chile

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That is selling a house and I read on the internet of at least one case already where a seller had to pay up to complete the sale.

In the case of death the liability passes to the executors after three months I think. Soliciitors cannot be complicit in tax avoidance otherwise they face penalties as well.

Because the first case you mentioned the seller is abviousily moving house and the tax is only in its first year or test year I should say-there is a lot of people who have intention of moving or transfering property for years to come-and once again to remind the charge is only applied for a period of 12 years.