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Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

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    #2432
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Bebo stunnah wrote: »
    I had been saving up for the last few years with the hope of buying a property here at some point, I'm feeling lucky now that I didn't!

    Bit putting the yearly cost of having the privilege of owning a property in this lovely country and pricing it at the same value as once off payment for a one way ticket somewhere else in the world that you can guarantee better weather is the real smart move. Just watch people lining up to pay!

    You'll probably get better weather - but you'll still be stung for property taxes. We're kind of an abherration in not levying a property tax or rates.


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    #2433
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    dvpower wrote: »
    So, back to your allegations of corruption and criminality?
    James Reilly? You got your wires crossed on that one.
    Fidelma from Galway? Fare evader and motor tax evader. Check.
    Hogan? You're backtracking on your claim that he didn't pay his taxes. Is he otherwise corrupt or criminal?
    Kenny? Is he corrupt or criminal?
    Anyone else?



    Hogan didn't have to declare his Portugese apartment either:
    Minister for the Environment Phil Hogan does not list his much-publicised apartment in Portugal but he is not required to declare the possession of a holiday home for personal use.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0404/1224314347526.html

    But that's all pretty much besides the point. Hogan/Reilly/Kenny could be the world's worst gangsters going, but that still leaves an obligation on the rest of us to A. Obey the law, and B. Deal with the deficit problem. Pointing to the failings of those who've been unlucky enough to carry the political can for the moment doesn't provide any sort of amnesty. Even if it feels great.


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    #2434
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    noodler wrote: »
    I have to intervene again.

    INTEREST-ONLY....NOT INTEREST-FREE.

    It simply means the bank or society is happy for the customer to only pay back the interest portion of the loan first.

    Yes indeed. And only given to some people if they're close to the Bank manager.
    Fingers made this available for two of Hogan's mortgages with very little paperwork involved.
    I couldn't get one of those and neither could 99% of the population i'd imagine.

    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/nationwides-soft-loan-to-hogan-3161567.html

    There is a story going that Hogan also got the first ten years interest free.


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    #2435
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Yes indeed. And only given to some people if they're close to the Bank manager.
    The Irish Mortgage Corporation said that there would have been many landlords who would have purchased investment property at the height of the boom and would have taken out interest-only loans on the mortgage.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/landlords-face-losing-interest-only-mortgages-118137.html


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    #2436
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Yes indeed. And only given to some people if they're close to the Bank manager.
    Fingers made this available for two of Hogan's mortgages with very little paperwork involved.
    I couldn't get one of those and neither could 99% of the population i'd imagine.

    Nothing unusual about Interest Only mortgages at all.
    Last year Morgan Kelly calculated that "two-thirds of investor loans were interest-only"

    What paperwork was missing by the way?


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    #2437
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    There is a story going that Hogan also got the first ten years interest free.
    Did you make up that story?


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    #2438
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    Red_Wake wrote: »
    Why do you post smilies instead of discussing an issue which you claim to care about? Surely your views would be better represented through a solid argument backed up by facts than by pretending to be sarcastic or trolling when you're challenged?

    Genuine question, as you seem to avoid debate, which while a common thing even on discussion forums, is a bit difficult for me to understand.

    Seems to me that the pro-taxers here are not interested in debating any way to get the deficit down.

    All we get are the 'we have to have a property tax, and it has to be more than the HHC cost'.

    You people are not here to debate anything, you're here to continually insist that a property tax is the only way.

    With one particular poster it's just question after question after question, never capable of answering any questions put though.

    You people also seem to think that it's proper and fair to only tax 'owners' for local services provided and it's fine that private renters and LA tenants continue to be carried by the rest of us.

    If any of you want to have a decent debate then lets have one and stop picking fights about bu11****e.


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    #2439
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    kr7 wrote: »
    You people also seem to think that it's proper and fair to only tax 'owners' for local services provided

    That's 'only' taxing owners on their property - as everyone continues to contribute to local services through every other tax. And, of course, local authority renters pay rent towards the additional services they receive.


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    #2440
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    kr7 wrote: »
    Seems to me that the pro-taxers here are not interested in debating any way to get the deficit down.

    This is progress. Only a few short weeks ago it was hard to find anyone who would admit there was a deficit problem at all - it was all going to pay bondholders.

    Anyway, about that deficit; I propose a 3:1 ratio of spending cuts to tax rises. What ratio would you suggest? (more than 3:1, I presume , as you aren't pro-tax)


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    #2441
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    One poster there, I won't name names, but since 12.57 today, 33 questions and not 1 answer, is this debating?


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    #2442
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    alastair wrote: »
    That's 'only' taxing owners on their property - as everyone continues to contribute to local services through every other tax. And, of course, local authority renters pay rent towards the additional services they receive.

    No comment!


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    #2443
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    kr7 wrote: »
    One poster there, I won't name names, but since 12.57 today, 33 questions and not 1 answer, is this debating?
    Where any of the questions in relation to the property tax?
    Where they asked by someone who made serious accusations about criminality and corruption and was then trying desperately to deflect?


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    #2444
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    kr7 wrote: »
    One poster there, I won't name names, but since 12.57 today, 33 questions and not 1 answer, is this debating?

    I'm guessing these would be paddy147's questions about his fantasy tax-evading ministers etc? If the mystery 'debate evader' is dvpower - I'd repeat my suggestion to him - the ignore button gets you past the need to engage with fiction enthusiasts.


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    #2445
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alastair wrote: »
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/landlords-face-losing-interest-only-mortgages-118137.html




    http://cormaclucey.blogspot.ie/2012/07/the-strange-silence-over-phil-hogans.html

    I am going to use this bit when they come looking for the Property Tax
    “my personal circumstances don’t allow that at the moment”

    I think BocktheRobber sums it all up
    http://bocktherobber.com/2012/07/minister-phil-hogans-soft-loan-from-michael-fingleton/


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    #2446
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    dvpower wrote: »
    This is progress. Only a few short weeks ago it was hard to find anyone who would admit there was a deficit problem at all - it was all going to pay bondholders.

    Anyway, about that deficit; I propose a 3:1 ratio of spending cuts to tax rises. What ratio would you suggest? (more than 3:1, I presume , as you aren't pro-tax)

    I propose that we go back to our european overlords and tell them that the current way of tackling our problems is counter-productive and is causing more problems than it's solving.

    Anyone who can't see that or admit to it is in denial.

    I've also listed what I think should be done to some way address the deficit earlier, some real proposals and not just vague suggestions of ratios etc.

    I propose that maybe you should do the same (excluding this immoral property tax) just to see if your able to be in any way constructive.


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    #2447
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    http://cormaclucey.blogspot.ie/2012/07/the-strange-silence-over-phil-hogans.html

    I am going to use this bit when they come looking for the Property Tax
    “my personal circumstances don’t allow that at the moment”

    The property tax isn't a voluntary arrangement - otherwise you could take Hogan's position.


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    #2448
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    alastair wrote: »
    I'm guessing these would be paddy147's questions about his fantasy tax-evading ministers etc? If the mystery 'debate evader' is dvpower - I'd repeat my suggestion to him - the ignore button gets you past the need to engage with fiction enthusiasts.

    Dv could have, but chose not to, show Paddy where he was wrong.
    Hardly adds to the quality of the thread, does it.


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    #2449
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    kr7 wrote: »
    I propose that maybe you should do the same (excluding this immoral property tax) just to see if your able to be in any way constructive.

    In a thread about the property tax!! I think you might be in the wrong place.

    Anyway, what ratio of spending cuts to tax rises did you propose?


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    #2450
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    kr7 wrote: »
    I propose that we go back to our european overlords and tell them that the current way of tackling our problems is counter-productive and is causing more problems than it's solving.

    Anyone who can't see that or admit to it is in denial.

    Your plan as outlined just juggles additional taxation onto renters and corporations (who are our only current source of economic growth). I'd love to hear how you reckon that's going to solve any problems.


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    #2451
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    kr7 wrote: »
    Dv could have, but chose not to, show Paddy where he was wrong.
    Hardly adds to the quality of the thread, does it.

    You could have jumped in and enlightened him (paddy147) at any point.


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    #2452
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    dvpower wrote: »
    In a thread about the property tax!! I think you might be in the wrong place.

    Anyway, what ratio of spending cuts to tax rises did you propose?

    Actually it's a thread about being able to afford a property tax.

    Nice the way you ignored the rest of my post there as you always do.

    Deflect a bit more if you like.

    Apart from bland ratios have you no specific proposals apart from a property tax?


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    #2453
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    dvpower wrote: »
    Did you make up that story?

    No but i heard that and maybe someone mentioned here helped him out with his repayments -
    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/brendan-oconnor-theres-big-phil-in-the-middle-of-things-again-3067579.html


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    #2454
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    alastair wrote: »
    Your plan as outlined just juggles additional taxation onto renters and corporations (who are our only current source of economic growth). I'd love to hear how you reckon that's going to solve any problems.

    Renters are a source of economic growth?


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    #2455
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    kr7 wrote: »
    Dv could have, but chose not to, show Paddy where he was wrong.
    Hardly adds to the quality of the thread, does it.
    I suspect Paddy knew well where he was wrong. Even if he didn't, he should probably think before he spews false allegations of criminality about named individuals.

    There are a lot of lazy allegations and even lazier innuendo thrown about here - that's whats destroying the quality of the thread (such that it is), not my challenging it.


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    #2456
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    alastair wrote: »
    You could have jumped in and enlightened him (paddy147) at any point.

    I did, if you bother to read through the thread.


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    #2457
    drdeadlift
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,189 ✭✭✭drdeadlift


    Seriously you lads can do some serious arguing.


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    #2458
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    dvpower wrote: »
    I suspect Paddy knew well where he was wrong. Even if he didn't, he should probably think before he spews false allegations of criminality about named individuals.

    There are a lot of lazy allegations and even lazier innuendo thrown about here - that's whats destroying the quality of the thread (such that it is), not my challenging it.

    No proposals then apart from a property tax then.
    That's ok then, at least we know where we stand.


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    #2459
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    kr7 wrote: »
    I did, if you bother to read through the thread.

    It clearly was too little too late.


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    #2460
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    kr7 wrote: »
    Renters are a source of economic growth?

    of course they are......if they don't pay their share....they grow economically....

    home owners are in deeper recession....


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    #2461
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    No but i heard that and maybe someone mentioned here helped him out with his repayments -
    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/brendan-oconnor-theres-big-phil-in-the-middle-of-things-again-3067579.html
    Spit it out lad - did he get an interest free mortgage or not? If he didn't get an interest free mortgage, but someone helped him with his repayments, can you give us the name?

    More baseless innuendo.:mad:


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