Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

Options
1…8182848687…107

Comments

  • Options
    #2492
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    kr7 wrote: »
    Do you not think it's something to do with the cost of all these extra taxes, VAT etc have on people?

    Which is why property taxation makes more sense than additional income taxation.


  • Options
    #2493
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    alastair wrote: »
    Given their complete irrelevence - even if true (which is pretty damn far from likely) - I'd say they're a major red herring.

    There's a lot of them about...... on both sides.


  • Options
    #2494
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Hogan is likely to be in serious negative equity.

    Hogan is sitting at a cabinet table and deciding on issues relating to debt defaulters in this country.

    Hogan is likely to be obliged to avail of some sort of debt management/forgiveness measures himself once his impossibly high interest-only mortgage runs out in a few years' time.

    Hogan is therefore likely to be a generous benficiary of debt-forgiveness measures he himself, as a Cabinet Minister, can decide on.
    That cannot be right.

    Negative equity has precious little to do with debt forgiveness. Neither have anything to do with property taxation.


  • Options
    #2495
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alastair wrote: »
    Negative equity has precious little to do with debt forgiveness. Neither have anything to do with property taxation.

    It has everything to do with being a cabinet minister and availing of the measures you decide to grant yourself. "Do yourself a favour" politics ruined this country.


  • Options
    #2496
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    It has everything to do with being a cabinet minister and availing of the measures you decide to grant yourself.

    The imaginary ones you're projecting from the future? Anything to do with property tax? If not - let's return to reality.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2497
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alastair wrote: »
    The imaginary ones you're projecting from the future? Anything to do with property tax? If not - let's return to reality.

    He is now a vested interest no matter what you say though.


  • Options
    #2498
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    alastair wrote: »
    Which is why property taxation makes more sense than additional income taxation.

    Say, for instance I was getting work done on my home ok.

    The builder says it'll cost €20k.
    Of that €20k VAT is 13.5% or about €2,400.
    The builder says to me 'you can pay me €20k or €17,600 cash.

    I think, mmmmm, that's €2,400 in my pocket and with that I could pay 3 or 4 years of this proposed property tax.

    Makes it a very simple decision.

    It may be wrong and even illegal to do it but I can almost guarantee you that most people would.

    NB, just using a building contractor as an example, but it can apply to everything.
    Sorry to all building contractors who read this.


  • Options
    #2499
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    There was plenty of innuendo about Bertie too and while not proved we all know there was no smoke without fire. I believe that there are plenty of Berties in politics. How did he pay mortgages of that size on his wages?

    This kind of smearing is pretty disgusting tbh.
    You're not even good at it.


  • Options
    #2500
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    dvpower wrote: »
    This kind of smearing is pretty disgusting tbh.
    You're not even good at it.

    And yet again you are not answering the question -
    How is he able to finance his mortgages on his wages?


  • Options
    #2501
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    He is now a vested interest no matter what you say though.

    If you say so - now can we get back to property taxation? Let's pretend it was introduced before Hogan was minister for anything, by a completeley different government, with the oversight of a couple of heavy hitters who were lending us enough dosh to keep the country going, and now we've a major deficit problem to tackle. I know it's a scenario that doesn't really invoilve Hogan's mortgage dealings at it's centre, but it's what we're actually faced with.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2502
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Hogan is therefore likely to be a generous benficiary of debt-forgiveness measures he himself, as a Cabinet Minister, can decide on.
    That cannot be right.
    You just can't help yourself. :mad: What debt forgiveness is Hogan going to get?


  • Options
    #2503
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    And yet again you are not answering the question -
    How is he able to finance his mortgages on his wages?
    How much is his mortgage? How much is his income?

    And what exactly are you trying to insinuate?


  • Options
    #2504
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    dvpower wrote: »
    This kind of smearing is pretty disgusting tbh.
    You're not even good at it.

    The people who 'smear' politicians are the politicians themselves.

    It's not 'joe soap' who gives them a bad name, it's themselves, by their actions in office.
    I refer you to the obscene way 'special advisors' are paid over and above what was agreed.

    They are, to my mind, parasites. From the leader of the country to the councillors in the local authorities.

    It's up to them to change that perception.


  • Options
    #2505
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    kr7 wrote: »
    Say, for instance I was getting work done on my home ok.

    The builder says it'll cost €20k.
    Of that €20k VAT is 13.5% or about €2,400.
    The builder says to me 'you can pay me €20k or €17,600 cash.

    I think, mmmmm, that's €2,400 in my pocket and with that I could pay for a foreign holiday.

    Makes it a very simple decision.

    It may be wrong and even illegal to do it but I can almost guarantee you that most people would.

    NB, just using a building contractor as an example, but it can apply to everything.
    Sorry to all building contractors who read this.
    Hey look. It works without a property tax too.


  • Options
    #2506
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    dvpower wrote: »
    How much is his mortgage? How much is his income?

    And what exactly are you trying to insinuate?

    How do you pay loans of 900k to 1.2 m on a wage of 80/90k ?
    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/nationwides-soft-loan-to-hogan-3161567.html


  • Options
    #2507
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    kr7 wrote: »
    I refer you to the obscene way 'special advisors' are paid over and above what was agreed.
    I thought they were hired at a level linked to a particular civil service grade and the pay rise they got was an increment normally applying to that grade.

    I don't think anyone at that level should be getting increments at the moment, but I don't think its accurate to say that they are being paid over what was agreed.


  • Options
    #2508
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    How do you pay loans of 900k to 1.2 m on a wage of 80/90k ?
    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/nationwides-soft-loan-to-hogan-3161567.html
    I don't know. How are you suggesting he managed it?


  • Options
    #2509
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    How do you pay loans of 900k to 1.2 m on a wage of 80/90k ?
    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/nationwides-soft-loan-to-hogan-3161567.html

    Well - he sold a house for a half million or thereabouts - meaning his mortgage is now substantially reduced from one he (clearly) couldn't afford to keep up.


  • Options
    #2510
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    dvpower wrote: »
    I don't know. How are you suggesting he managed it?

    It is not possible to service those loans on that wage.
    Fine Gael should be asking that very same question but are not.
    Is it any wonder people are suspicious and have little faith in politics and the party that promised to make everything transparent.


  • Options
    #2511
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    It is not possible to service those loans on that wage.

    Isn't and wasn't - which is why he had to sell once the era of flipping property for profit went pop. He's not exactly alone in that regard. Now - back to property taxation...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2512
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alastair wrote: »
    Isn't and wasn't - which is why he had to sell once the era of flipping property for profit went pop. He's not exactly alone in that regard. Now - back to property taxation...

    And how did he manage before he finally "sold" it ? And how did he get loans of that size on his wages?
    Question is still not answered.


  • Options
    #2513
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    And how did he manage before he finally "sold" it ? And how did he get loans of that size on his wages?
    Question is still not answered.

    The answer is probably much the same as every other ill-advised mortgage issued during the boom. He leveraged the equity in his existing property, and took advantage of a low interest lending environment. No great mystery there - unless you ignore the many others who borrowed beyond their means.


  • Options
    #2514
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    dvpower wrote: »
    Hey look. It works without a property tax too.

    Why do you guys always change my posts to suit your own agenda?
    It's very immature.


  • Options
    #2515
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    dvpower wrote: »
    I thought they were hired at a level linked to a particular civil service grade and the pay rise they got was an increment normally applying to that grade.

    I don't think anyone at that level should be getting increments at the moment, but I don't think its accurate to say that they are being paid over what was agreed.

    Once again ignoring the rest of my post to suit your position.


  • Options
    #2516
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alastair wrote: »
    The answer is probably much the same as every other ill-advised mortgage issued during the boom. He leveraged the equity in his existing property, and took advantage of a low interest lending environment. No great mystery there - unless you ignore the many others who borrowed beyond their means.

    Not befitting a Govt Minister at all. Too many unanswered questions around his dealings.


  • Options
    #2517
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Not befitting a Govt Minister at all. Too many unanswered questions around his dealings.

    not fit for purpose......comes to mind....

    certainly not fit to make decisions that affect peoples lives....


  • Options
    #2518
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    dvpower wrote: »
    I know, he was getting cash digouts under the table to help him with his payments.


    FYPing isn't very clever is it dv.
    So let's not start.


  • Options
    #2519
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    kr7 wrote: »
    Why do you guys always change my posts to suit your own agenda?
    It's very immature.
    I know. It must be difficult when you find out that your post didn't demonstrate the point you thought it did.


  • Options
    #2520
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    kr7 wrote: »

    You people also seem to think that it's proper and fair to only tax 'owners' for local services provided and it's fine that private renters and LA tenants continue to be carried by the rest of us.

    Don't know why private renters are an issue, they'll pay it through a rent increase or the landlord will pay it.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2521
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    kr7 wrote: »
    No proposals then apart from a property tax then.
    kr7 wrote: »
    You won't get any answers regarding how much the cuts should bring in and how much new taxes should bring in from some posters here.

    Not true. I cannot recall any “pro-taxer” arguing that cuts in public spending, and big ones, are essential. No one is seriously arguing against this. The discussion is really about whether higher taxes should play some part in digging us out of the hole we are in.

    As to your solution, you think the people that should bear the enormous burden for dealing with our massive deficit, in summary are:

    1. Those less well of that you (SW recipients, lower earners)
    kr7 wrote: »
    I'd propose a cut in welfare across the board of 5%,
    a charge to be levied on private renters and LA tenants of €300 PA, (if we also have to have a property tax)

    And
    2. Those better of that you (higher earners, public sector workers)
    kr7 wrote: »
    a 3% raise in the higher rate of tax,
    a new tax band targeting those on over €100k,

    cut completely children's allowance for any household bringing in over €100k, a 50% cut in same for any household bringing in between €70-€100k,
    a 5% increase in corporate tax (still keeps us at a fairly modest rate).

    Then, the elephant in the room (public sector) will have to be tackled.

    Now the everyone should pay but me, “I’m all right Jack” attitude is understandable up to a point. I think all of us would prefer if there was a solution that didn’t affect us personally. But that simply won’t be possible. Ordinary, modest earners (and a sizable number of public sector workers ARE exactly this), will have to make massive sacrifices, the deficit is simply too big to exclude them.

    Many of the measures you mentioned above will have to be taken, and will be taken. But taxes for “ordinary workers” will also be part of the mix


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement