Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

You'd think that, wouldn't you.

Most people recognise the dynamics involved in tax enforcement.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

Most people recognise the dynamics involved in tax enforcement.

Some people are prepared to go to prison for what they believe in.
They can't take money from me if it's not in the country and cannot be found.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

Some people are prepared to go to prison for what they believe in.
They can't take money from me if it's not in the country and cannot be found.

They've been doing fine to date. Hot air tbh.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

They've been doing fine to date. Hot air tbh.

Yea, hot air ok.
Enough said, see ya Ali.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

Yea, hot air ok.

Take care with your property tax haven!

lugha

kr7 wrote: »

I've told you 3 or 4 times now that I will pay a tax similar to the 'council tax' in the UK if the make everyone liable for it, including renters and LA tenants.

That's my position, it won't change.

I have been asking you to explain your inconsistent attitudes whereby you are outraged that some in our society have some entitlements that the better off do not get whilst simultaneously you are largely indifferent to the fact that some in our society have other entitlements that the better off do not get!

But I don’t think you can, so we’ll move on.

(BTW, the exclusion of LA tenants from the HHC was not a welfare concession. It would make little sense to include in a property tax register those that do not own property)

Mach Lei

I think the lets pay all the taxes they can think of brigade on this forum are seriously underestimating the anger they will provoke in people if they insist on continuing, some of the rumours regarding the next budget, travel passes and medical cards might be scrapped for old age pensioners, single parents allowance might be cut, then to top it all off a property tax

€1000 per house, if all of that comes to pass with the next budget don,t be surprised if the big numbers start taking to the streets.

alastair

Mach Lei wrote: »

I think the lets pay all the taxes they can think of brigade on this forum are seriously underestimating the anger they will provoke in people if they insist on continuing, some of the rumours regarding the next budget, travel passes and medical cards might be scrapped for old age pensioners, single parents allowance might be cut, then to top it all off a property tax

€1000 per house, if all of that comes to pass with the next budget don,t be surprised if the big numbers start taking to the streets.

Given the previous promises of 'massive' rallies coming from your group (Campaign Against the Household and Water Taxes) on a regular basis - and the consequent turnouts - I wouldn't get too excited about these 'big number' predictions.

lugha

Mach Lei wrote: »

I think the lets pay all the taxes they can think of brigade on this forum are seriously underestimating the anger they will provoke in people if they insist on continuing, some of the rumours regarding the next budget, travel passes and medical cards might be scrapped for old age pensioners, single parents allowance might be cut, then to top it all off a property tax

€1000 per house, if all of that comes to pass with the next budget don,t be surprised if the big numbers start taking to the streets.

Yes I think people might take to the streets and they could quite conceivably bring down the FG / Lab government before it sees out even one term. It could very well happen.

And when all the cheering and celebrating for sticking it to the man dies down we will have a new government (comprising God knows who!) who will be faced with exactly the same problems that the current crew have and will have little option but to inflict considerable pain, one way or another, on ordinary people to extract us from the mess we are in.

If you see an alternative then please tell us what it is.

Mach Lei

alastair wrote: »

Given the previous promises of 'massive' rallies coming from your group (Campaign Against the Household and Water Taxes) on a regular basis - and the consequent turnouts - I wouldn't get too excited about these 'big number' predictions.

You prob obviously weren,t there at the fine gael ard thies rally which was a lot more then 5,000 as reported by rte, however if medical cards/travel passes are removed from pensioners come next budget will give more people a reason to get angry to take to the streets, age action have already warned of a repeat of 2008 protests over the medical cards issue, the next budget will make more people angrier and it won,t just be over the property tax.

Mach Lei

lugha wrote: »

Yes I think people might take to the streets and they could quite conceivably bring down the FG / Lab government before it sees out even one term. It could very well happen.

And when all the cheering and celebrating for sticking it to the man dies down we will have a new government (comprising God knows who!) who will be faced with exactly the same problems that the current crew have and will have little option but to inflict considerable pain, one way or another, on ordinary people to extract us from the mess we are in.

If you see an alternative then please tell us what it is.

Having read through a good few pages on this forum, anytime some puts forward other/alternative suggestions how to raise money/cut spending/close the defict they are straight away shot down, but theres plenty of suggestions after being forward by people already on this thread and others.

alastair

Mach Lei wrote: »

You prob obviously weren,t there at the fine gael ard thies rally which was a lot more then 5,000 as reported by rte, however if medical cards/travel passes are removed from pensioners come next budget will give more people a reason to get angry to take to the streets, age action have already warned of a repeat of 2008 protests over the medical cards issue, the next budget will make more people angrier and it won,t just be over the property tax.

5,000 isn't particularly impressive for a national rally.

I'm sure pensioners will be out in real force again if there are moves on the medical card - but quite what that has to do with property tax, or your campaign, escapes me.

alastair

Mach Lei wrote: »

Having read through a good few pages on this forum, anytime some puts forward other/alternative suggestions how to raise money/cut spending/close the defict they are straight away shot down, but theres plenty of suggestions after being forward by people already on this thread and others.

There's a reason they're shot down. So nothing different to offer?

dvpower

Mach Lei wrote: »

Having read through a good few pages on this forum, anytime some puts forward other/alternative suggestions how to raise money/cut spending/close the defict they are straight away shot down, but theres plenty of suggestions after being forward by people already on this thread and others.

Regardless of any other good idea to bridge the deficit, the government simply have no choice but to introduce a property tax - it is a specific condition of the bailout.

kr7

Mach Lei wrote: »

You prob obviously weren,t there at the fine gael ard thies rally which was a lot more then 5,000 as reported by rte, however if medical cards/travel passes are removed from pensioners come next budget will give more people a reason to get angry to take to the streets, age action have already warned of a repeat of 2008 protests over the medical cards issue, the next budget will make more people angrier and it won,t just be over the property tax.

Maybe it'll take the 'grey army' to give this shower the kick up the arse they need just like they gave one to the last lot!

FG will try and bring in whatever they can for the next while, then when they get a beating in the local elections in 2014 and in the run in to the next general election they'll pull back from the brink like all political parties do here.

They'll do whatever it takes to get a second term......

lugha

Mach Lei wrote: »

Having read through a good few pages on this forum, anytime some puts forward other/alternative suggestions how to raise money/cut spending/close the defict they are straight away shot down, but theres plenty of suggestions after being forward by people already on this thread and others.

Nobody has offered any credible ideas as to how we might deal with our deficit that does not involve considerable hardship for ordinary people.

Some have offered plans that will protest some ordinary people but at the expense of others (typically private sector at the expense of the public sector or those made redundant)

Some have amusing notions that there is some way the rich can foot the bill (without a property tax mind!).

But a credible plan that won't impact on ordinary people? Nope. And they haven't suggested one because there isn't one.

kr7

dvpower wrote: »

Regardless of any other good idea to bridge the deficit, the government simply have no choice but to introduce a property tax - it is a specific condition of the bailout.

Ah yes, the bible according to the troika.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

There's a reason they're shot down. So nothing different to offer?

I'm back!
Have you anything different to offer Ali?

dvpower

kr7 wrote: »

FG will try and bring in whatever they can for the next while, then when they get a beating in the local elections in 2014 and in the run in to the next general election they'll pull back from the brink like all political parties do here.

Even in the unlikely event that this government got kicked out of office in the next election, what new formulation of parties do you envisage will rise to power and scrap the property tax after the next election?

dvpower

kr7 wrote: »

Ah yes, the bible according to the troika.

Exactly - now your getting it. The people who pay the piper get to call the tune.

lugha

kr7 wrote: »

Maybe it'll take the 'grey army' to give this shower the kick up the arse they need just like they gave one to the last lot!

Ah now you are only adding to the confusion!

You are greatly angst about the lesser well off getting some benefits from the state but you now appear to be cheer leading the "grey army" who successfully rebuffed government efforts to take a benefit of some of their number, who could easily afford to pay for it themselves?

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

I'm back!
Have you anything different to offer Ali?

I've managed to articulate my views ad nauseum - unlike our CAHWT friend.

alastair

dvpower wrote: »

Exactly - now your getting it. The people who pay the piper get to call the tune.

And even if they hadn't (which they did) - the merits of property taxation can be measured by the degree of it's application internationally.

kr7

lugha wrote: »

Nobody has offered any credible ideas as to how we might deal with our deficit that does not involve considerable hardship for ordinary people.

Some have offered plans that will protest some ordinary people but at the expense of others (typically private sector at the expense of the public sector or those made redundant)

Some have amusing notions that there is some way the rich can foot the bill (without a property tax mind!).

But a credible plan that won't impact on ordinary people? Nope. And they haven't suggested one because there isn't one.

So it's tax, tax and more tax (for middle Ireland) and cut, cut and more cuts (that'll mostly effect middle Ireland)?

Nothing to get people working again, remember the jobs strategy?, nothing to get a debt write down (to reduce our increasing interest bill), no burning the bondholders (we always pay our debts, even though their not ours) etc etc.

Although we do have the money for pay rises in the middle of a recession for our PS/CS, we do have money to overpay special advisors, we do have the money not to upset the CPA, we do have €22 billion a year for welfare etc etc.

There's something seriously wrong with this place when your better off on the dole in state provided housing than out working for a living.

I suppose bertie groomed a generation to expect that when he bought 3 elections on the way to destroying our economy.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

I've managed to articulate my only view ad nauseum - unlike our CAHWT friend.

Fixed that for you.;)

kr7

lugha wrote: »

Ah now you are only adding to the confusion!

You are greatly angst about the lesser well off getting some benefits from the state but you now appear to be cheer leading the "grey army" who successfully rebuffed government efforts to take a benefit of some of their number, who could easily afford to pay for it themselves?

If my posts confuse you so much why do you reply to them.

kr7

dvpower wrote: »

Even in the unlikely event that this government got kicked out of office in the next election, what new formulation of parties do you envisage will rise to power and scrap the property tax after the next election?

Always with the questions dv, never with the answers!:rolleyes:

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

we do have €22 billion a year for welfare etc etc.

Including those wealthy pensioner's medical cards don't forget!

kr7

Round and round in circles the thread goes.

Check out and unfollow methinks.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

Always with the questions dv, never with the answers!:rolleyes:

You've been presented with an answer - increased taxes, and cuts across the breadth of state and local authority services. You don't like them, but you've been presented with them nonetheless.