Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

kr7

darkhorse wrote: »

Must be really confusing for the people who are employed to distribute the money. All the billions, bailout money and money collected from taxes, thrown in a big hat. How do they know which money to take out for to pay for various items.

No, not really.

See we're not paying unsecured bondholders with 'our' money, we're paying them with 'our' money which we borrowed!

We just pay the interest with 'our' money, the lump sum is paid with 'our' money we borrow, got it?:D

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

Well the USC is taken from your income, which makes it an income tax.

A property tax is only for people with property, property they pay for with what remains of their income.

At the moment we have a charge, a registration fee if you like, that's all.

Select the bit which suits your agenda from the above.

None of it really matters tbh - income, property, consumption, capital asset, sales, motor - they are all taxes of one shade or another.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

No, not really.

See we're not paying unsecured bondholders with 'our' money, we're paying them with 'our' money which we borrowed!

We just pay the interest with 'our' money, the lump sum is paid with 'our' money we borrow, got it?:D

And outside the bank bailout overhead - the remaining 95% plus goes on other everyday state expenditure.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

Yep - governments elected by the people to run those nations. It's generally states that apply taxation in nations.

We didn't elect a government to strap €85 billion plus interest to our backs for the next 20 odd years to pay for their buddies in the banks fcuk up's.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

We didn't elect a government to strap €85 billion plus interest to our backs for the next 20 odd years to pay for their buddies in the banks fcuk up's.

We did - they were called Fianna Fail.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

And outside the bank bailout overhead - the remaining 95% plus goes on other everyday state expenditure.

And the supposed €100 million they've collected from this charge is what percentage of that?
Pissing into the ocean.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

And the supposed €100 million they've collected from this charge is what percentage of that?
Pissing into the ocean.

It makes quite a difference to the local authorities.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

We did - they were called Fianna Fail.

You may have.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

You may have.

Never voted FF in my life - but I'm not pretending enough didn't to allow them form a government and continue the policy platform that accentuated this mess. We the Irish electorate voted them in - no-one else.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

It makes quite a difference to the local authorities.

F**k them.

If this teaches them to get value from and to mind their money it'll be a good thing.

Maybe we'll see no more of the glass fronted cathedrals to power that they were so fond of building during the 'boom'.

Maybe they'll stop paying county managers more than the head of some states.

F**k them again!

They won't do that with my money.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

Never voted FF in my life - but I'm not pretending enough didn't to allow them form a government and continue the policy platform that accentuated this mess. We the Irish electorate voted them in - no-one else.

There should have been a referendum on the bank bailout then, indeed there should be a referendum on the continuation of the same bailout.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

F**k them.

If this teaches them to get value from and to mind their money it'll be a good thing.

Maybe we'll see no more of the glass fronted cathedrals to power that they were so fond of building during the 'boom'.

Maybe they'll stop paying county managers more than the head of some states.

F**k them again!

They won't do that with my money.

Exactly whose money do you think they're using at the moment?
The HHC is only a portion of their funding. And the only lesson that's going to be learned from withholding your tax is that the penalties mount, and going the court won't be much fun.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

There should have been a referendum on the bank bailout then, indeed there should be a referendum on the continuation of the same bailout.

Why? You think it would have been 1. Possible to delay a decision on, 2. Not an issue of standard governance competency, and 3. a much better situation if we had opted to let the banks fail?

Once we had committed to the bailout - we had to agree to the troika terms for lending us our bailout loan - which really left us with no choice in the matter.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

Exactly whose money do you think they're using at the moment?
The HHC is only a portion of their funding. And the only lesson that's going to be learned from withholding your tax is that the penalties mount, and going the court won't be much fun.

I know that but at least the row over this charge might focus a few minds.

Do you think we should hand over more money while county managers are paid such 'celtic tiger' money.

I won't.

Looking forward to the summons.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

Why? You think it would have been 1. Possible to delay a decision on, 2. Not an issue of standard governance competency, and 3. a much better situation if we had opted to let the banks fail?

Once we had committed to the bailout - we had to agree to the troika terms for lending us our bailout loan - which really left us with no choice in the matter.

Most of the banks have failed, and continue to fail. They should have been let go bust.
When politicians fcuk about with capitalism the results are there for all to see.

Political action at the head of europe is crippling the world economy.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

I know that but at least the row over this charge might focus a few minds.

Do you think we should hand over more money while county managers are paid such 'celtic tiger' money.

I won't.

Looking forward to the summons.

I don't have a clear grasp on whether county managers warrant their salary levels or not tbh. The mayor of Barcelona earns more than the Spanish Prime Minister too - and the financial state of of Catalonia isn't so hot either. Local authority funding has been cut back regardless of the transfer of some funding to property taxes - so whatever 'focusing of minds' you think will come of lowered budgets - it's already happening.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

Most of the banks have failed, and continue to fail. They should have been let go bust.

You'd have been happy for your bank to go bust?

tayto lover

alastair wrote: »

I don't have a clear grasp on whether county managers warrant their salary levels or not tbh. The mayor of Barcelona earns more than the Spanish Prime Minister too - and the financial state of of Catalonia isn't so hot either. Local authority funding has been cut back regardless of the transfer of some funding to property taxes - so whatever 'focusing of minds' you think will come of lowered budgets - it's already happening.

Fidelma Healy Eames obviously has long hard days working in the Seanad. She is now on a working "holiday" with the Voluntary Service Overseas (along with her husband because she might have felt lonely) in Africa. I like her quote --

".....She continued: "It's very hard work. You have two-and-a-half to three weeks' work in one week. We start at 8 in the morning and don't finish until 5 or 6. That's a lot more work than a day at home......."


http://www.independent.ie/national-n...n-3203574.html

Am Chile

alastair wrote: »

You'd have been happy for your bank to go bust?

Some people have often argued Ireland should of taken the Iceland approach regarding the banking crisis, others have dismissed taken such a approach-during the lisbon two referendum when Iceland was in crisis Iceland was held up in the Irish media and by those in favour of the lisbon treaty warning if we voted no a second time we would end up like Iceland-nearly three years after lisbon two' here,s what the view of the IMF on Icelands recovery.

Iceland
holds some key lessons for nations trying to survive bailouts after the island’s
approach to its rescue led to a “surprisingly” strong recovery, the
International Monetary Fund’s mission chief to the country said.


Iceland’s
commitment to its program, a decision to push
losses on to bondholders instead of taxpayers and the
safeguarding of a welfare system that shielded the unemployed from penury helped
propel the nation from collapse toward recovery, according to the
Washington-based fund.


“Iceland
has made significant achievements since the crisis,” Daria V. Zakharova, IMF
mission chief to the island, said in an interview. “We have a very positive
outlook on growth, especially for this year and next year because it appears to
us that the growth is broad based.”


Iceland refused to protect creditors in its
banks, which failed in 2008 after their debts bloated
to 10 times the size of the economy. The island’s subsequent decision to shield
itself from a capital outflow by restricting currency movements allowed the
government to ward off a speculative attack, cauterizing the economy’s
hemorrhaging. That helped the authorities focus on supporting households and
businesses.


“The
fact that Iceland managed to preserve the social welfare system in the face of a
very sizeable fiscal consolidation is one of the major achievements under the
program and of the Icelandic government,” Zakharova said. The program benefited
from “strong implementation, reflecting ownership on the part of the
authorities,” she said.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-08-12/imf-says-bailouts-iceland-style-hold-lessons-for-crisis-nations

The
lesson is clear: let the free market work as it is supposed to. Iceland has
experienced a “surprisingly strong” recovery from the global financial crisis,
according to the International Monetary Fund (IMF). The country’s economy is
expected to grow over the next two years, which is more than can be said for
most European economies that are still mired in debt.

As part of its recovery programme, Iceland refused to
protect its bank’s creditors, who had made bad
investment decisions. It also safeguarded its welfare system to ensure that its
unemployed received social support.

http://gulfnews.com/opinions/editorials/let-the-free-market-work-for-economic-recovery-1.1061935

mikemac1

Tipp North could afford to spend 27 million on a new HQ in Nenagh

No expense spared, a standard office building wasn't good enough for them
pics

Now maybe the money came from OPW, I don't have all the figures

But if Tipp North are short on cash now it's their own fault

And a few of them should stop taking their wives and husbands on junkets to Boston every March

kr7

mikemac1 wrote: »

Tipp North could afford to spend 27 million on a new HQ in Nenagh

No expense spared, a standard office building wasn't good enough for them
pics

Now maybe the money came from OPW, I don't have all the figures

But if Tipp North are short on cash now it's their own fault

And a few of them should stop taking their wives and husbands on junkets to Boston every March

As I've said, and excuse the term, fcuk them.

I hope their funding is cut from central funds and that more people don't pay the property tax when it's brought in.

They might learn to be a bit more more frugal with our money.

Cork county manager on €162,000 pa.
Cork city manager on €153,000 pa.
Dublin city manager on €189,000 pa.

And allowances on top,

There are a number of allowances available to County and City Managers.

County and City Managers may submit claims in respect of travel and subsistence expenses incurred as part of their official duties in accordance with the relevant travel and subsistence circulars. All local authorities are obliged to ensure that only essential travel is undertaken and that the number of employees going on any official journey is kept to an absolute minimum. Local authorities are also obliged to ensure that related expenditure is critically appraised and monitored.

A Manager may claim up to 7.5% of their salary in substitution of motor mileage rates contained in the travel and subsistence circulars, where a local authority considers that those allowances do not adequately recompense the Manager for the extent to which their car is used for official business.

A Manager or Assistant Manager may claim an allowance in respect of individual or casual entertainment expenses incurred by them in relation to development functions and public relations associated therewith. The level of allowance corresponds to the number of Assistant Managers and is contained in the following table.

Table
County or City Manager Up to €2,095
Manager and one Assistant Manager Up to €3,683
Manager and two or more Assistant Managers Up to €5,270
Manager and three or more Assistant Managers Up to €6,858

County and City Managers with designated responsibility for a Regional Authority may claim an allowance of €5,662 per annum in respect of these responsibilities.


Fcuk them!

bgrizzley

tayto lover wrote: »

Fidelma Healy Eames obviously has long hard days working in the Seanad. She is now on a working "holiday" with the Voluntary Service Overseas (along with her husband because she might have felt lonely) in Africa. I like her quote --

".....She continued: "It's very hard work. You have two-and-a-half to three weeks' work in one week. We start at 8 in the morning and don't finish until 5 or 6. That's a lot more work than a day at home......."


http://www.independent.ie/national-n...n-3203574.html

Lol, does this feckin eejit not know when to shut up and keep her head down.

Am Chile

Comments made by Joan Burton today.

Middle
Ireland' cannot take any more financial pain, Social Protection Minister Joan
Burton has admitted. Ms Burton conceded there is real concern at cabinet level
that further tax increases, pay cuts or household
charges would seriously
damage the economy.


"At
home the major Irish problem is low domestic demand, particularly in the retail
sector -- that needs to have its confidence boosted," she said.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/middle-ireland-cant-take-more-pain-says-joan-burton-3203546.html
Some common sense Joan, but its not just middle Ireland that can,t take any more finanicial pain, ordinary working class people can,t take any more pain either-here we have a government minister admitting further tax increases,further household tax increaes will damage the economy even more, as richard bruton said in opposition, no country has ever taxed itself out of recession.

Dub XV

Am Chile wrote: »

Comments made by Joan Burton today.


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/middle-ireland-cant-take-more-pain-says-joan-burton-3203546.html
Some common sense Joan, but its not just middle Ireland that can,t take any more finanicial pain, ordinary working class people can,t take any more pain either-here we have a government minister admitting further tax increases,further household tax increaes will damage the economy even more, as richard bruton said in opposition, no country has ever taxed itself out of recession.

Another Sindo rant, wha? :rolleyes:

alastair

tayto lover wrote: »

Fidelma Healy Eames obviously has long hard days working in the Seanad. [/url]

Well - no-one is working in the Seanad at the moment. They're on their summer break.

alastair

Am Chile wrote: »

Some people have often argued Ireland should of taken the Iceland approach regarding the banking crisis, others have dismissed taken such a approach-during the lisbon two referendum when Iceland was in crisis Iceland was held up in the Irish media and by those in favour of the lisbon treaty warning if we voted no a second time we would end up like Iceland-nearly three years after lisbon two' here,s what the view of the IMF on Icelands recovery.

People's life savings were wiped out in Iceland, and they had a currency they could devalue to begin with - and despite that:

Now, it's still possible to question the value of devaluation by comparing the Icelandic experience to that in Ireland; Iceland has not done substantially better than Ireland despite the fact that Ireland lacks a currency to depreciate.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2012/07/crisis-and-recovery

Am Chile

Dub XV wrote: »

Another Sindo rant, wha? :rolleyes:

No, comments made by Joan Burton stating her opinion further tax increases will damage the Economy-no country has ever taxed itself out of recession.

Dub XV

Am Chile wrote: »

No, comments made by Joan Burton stating her opinion further tax increases will damage the Economy-no country has ever taxed itself out of recession.

Sorry I was being sarcastic.

There are some here that will discount it simply because it's in the Indo, when it suits of course.

kr7

Am Chile wrote: »

No, comments made by Joan Burton stating her opinion further tax increases will damage the Economy-no country has ever taxed itself out of recession.

Our government's idea is to tax the country further into recession.
I think they're hoping someone will feel sorry for us.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

As I've said, and excuse the term, fcuk them.

I hope their funding is cut from central funds and that more people don't pay the property tax when it's brought in.

They might learn to be a bit more more frugal with our money.

Cork county manager on €162,000 pa.
Cork city manager on €153,000 pa.
Dublin city manager on €189,000 p.!

How much do you suggest they should be paid? It's all well and good pointing at the headline salary - but maybe it's value for money?

Belfast City Council:

Three council employees in Northern Ireland earned more than £100,000 in the past financial year.

The Town Hall Rich List, released by the right-wing Taxpayers’ Alliance claimed that three senior officers at Belfast City Council earned six-figure sums in 2008/2009.


Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/three-city-council-workers-with-sixfigure-pay-packets-14749881.html#ixzz241U8fH5N

The report revealed that 1,250 council workers earned six-figure sums across the UK, and 31 were paid more than the Prime Minister, Gordon Brown.

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/three-city-council-workers-with-sixfigure-pay-packets-14749881.html#ixzz241UWpqVg