Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

alastair

Am Chile wrote: »

no country has ever taxed itself out of recession.

Estonia seems to have. A mix of cuts and tax hikes have improved their economy considerably.

http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.ie/2012/06/austerity-done-right-part-1.html

alastair

Dub XV wrote: »

Sorry I was being sarcastic.

There are some here that will discount it simply because it's in the Indo, when it suits of course.

The 'Sindo' - the 'Indo' has a modicum of credibility left. The Sindo? Not so much.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

How much do you suggest they should be paid? It's all well and good pointing at the headline salary - but maybe it's value for money?

Belfast City Council:

Alastair, you seem well able to compare the UK with Ireland when your comparing the top brasses salary's and also when comparing what their council tax costs them.

Why then don't you compare the services people receive for their council taxes?

noodler

People still misunderstanding the purpose of budget adjustments?

Nobody is under the illusion it helps economic growth.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

Alastair, you seem well able to compare the UK with Ireland when your comparing the top brasses salary's and also when comparing what their council tax costs them.

Why then don't you compare the services people receive for their council taxes?

It's simple enough surely?

UK council charges are higher, and offer more services for more money. Provide Irish local authorities with the sort of funding UK local authorities get, and you could have your bins collected by them once again. Until then - it's not going to happen.

The task of running a city - be it Belfast or Cork - is fairly comparable - so you can use it as a worthwhile comparison, salary-wise.

darkhorse

alastair wrote: »

People's life savings were wiped out in Iceland

Just to answer this post, a lot of people's life savings were wiped out in Ireland as well. So I will say to you, alastair, for the third time on this thread
I CAN'T AFFORD IT

Now, please just read my post carefully, and think about it this time, before you come back with a silly post.

alastair

darkhorse wrote: »

alastair wrote: »

People's life savings were wiped out in Iceland

Just to answer this post, a lot of people's life savings were wiped out in Ireland as well.

Not on the back of the bank bailout they weren't. On average the Icelandic people lost two thirds of their savings more or less instantly on their response to their banking crisis.

alastair

darkhorse wrote: »

So I will say to you, alastair, for the third time on this thread
I CAN'T AFFORD IT

And that's why you advocate a rise in income taxes instead? I'm struggling to spot the logic in your stated position.

darkhorse

alastair wrote: »

And that's why you advocate a rise in income taxes instead? I'm struggling to spot the logic in your stated position.

O.K., struggle. Goodnight.

alastair

darkhorse wrote: »

O.K., struggle. Goodnight.

As I suspected - just bluster.

gerryo777

alastair wrote: »

It's simple enough surely?

UK council charges are higher, and offer more services for more money. Provide Irish local authorities with the sort of funding UK local authorities get, and you could have your bins collected by them once again. Until then - it's not going to happen.

The task of running a city - be it Belfast or Cork - is fairly comparable - so you can use it as a worthwhile comparison, salary-wise.

What we'll get is the higher property tax rate when it's brought in, less services and still be paying the myriad of stealth taxes we have here.

Oh yea, we'll still be paying €50 to visit a GP and then pay for any medication needed.
We'll still be paying for refuse collection.
We'll still be paying for school books,transport and meals.

We'll still have county managers, indeed in cork and Dublin, city managers and county managers on the wage of presidents and prime ministers of other country's, plus their allowances,

From a previous post;


A Manager may claim up to 7.5% of their salary in substitution of motor mileage rates contained in the travel and subsistence circulars, where a local authority considers that those allowances do not adequately recompense the Manager for the extent to which their car is used for official business.

A Manager or Assistant Manager may claim an allowance in respect of individual or casual entertainment expenses incurred by them in relation to development functions and public relations associated therewith. The level of allowance corresponds to the number of Assistant Managers and is contained in the following table.

Table
County or City Manager Up to €2,095
Manager and one Assistant Manager Up to €3,683
Manager and two or more Assistant Managers Up to €5,270
Manager and three or more Assistant Managers Up to €6,858

County and City Managers with designated responsibility for a Regional Authority may claim an allowance of €5,662 per annum in respect of these responsibilities.

An Irish answer to an Irish problem.

Take all the specific taxes they have in other countries, mix them all together without corresponding cuts in general taxation and justify them by saying 'well, they have them in other countries'.

Taxes and austerity, it's working so well in getting Ireland and the rest of europe out of recession, isn't it?

kr7

alastair wrote: »

You'd have been happy for your bank to go bust?

Yep, I never kept my savings in any of the Irish banks and didn't have much dealings with Irish banks.
Thank God.

alastair

gerryo777 wrote: »

What we'll get is the higher property tax rate when it's brought in, less services and still be paying the myriad of stealth taxes we have here.

No-one has suggested we'll have to pay UK Council Charge level property taxes.

gerryo777 wrote: »

We'll still have county managers, indeed in cork and Dublin, city managers and county managers on the wage of presidents and prime ministers of other country's, plus their allowances,

We'll still be paying people similar salaries to those they would earn elsewhere? Why pick out county managers for special attention?

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

Yep, I never kept my savings in any of the Irish banks and didn't have much dealings with Irish banks.
Thank God.

Glad to see that self-serving attitude is consistent.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

Glad to see that self-serving attitude is consistent.

Much like having a vested interest in more taxes to make sure there's no cuts in funding to the agencies you get your work from, eh Alastair.....

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

Much like having a vested interest in more taxes to make sure there's no cuts in funding to the agencies you get your work from, eh Alastair.....

Your supposed 'vested interests' nonsense is rather undermined by the fact that; A. I don't oppose cuts in the public sector, B. Property taxes don't actually go to any of the state-funded agencies amongst my client list, and finally; C. The real 'vested interest' for me would be to follow your self-serving position - that the tax increase burden should be extended to non-property owners, thereby reducing my burden.

But then logic or accuracy aren't exactly watchwords in your position so far.

Dub XV

After your endless pontificating Alastair......................


I'm still not convinced.

gerryo777

alastair wrote: »

We'll still be paying people similar salaries to those they would earn elsewhere? Why pick out county managers for special attention?

When it suits your agenda you always compare us to 'elsewhere'. Funny that.

Any council, PS or CS worker should not be paid more than €80-€100k in my opinion.
They're being paid from the public purse remember.

Isn't it amazing that benchmarking was great during the boom, but now, almost 5 years into a recession PS workers are still getting pay rises and are paid on average 40% odd more than similar workers in the private sector?

BTW, county managers were meant to be at the head of the councils, the same councils who encouraged a building boom by rezoning lands 'willy nilly', took the development fees for their vanity projects and high wages and allowed development on flood plains and outside small villages all over Ireland.
They've done a great job altogether, haven't they?

alastair

gerryo777 wrote: »

When it suits your agenda you always compare us to 'elsewhere'. Funny that.

What would you have us compared to then?

alastair

Dub XV wrote: »

After your endless pontificating Alastair......................


I'm still not convinced.

Ah well. But you'll still have to pay, if liable.

kr7

alastair wrote: »

Your supposed 'vested interests' nonsense is rather undermined by the fact that; A. I don't oppose cuts in the public sector, B. Property taxes don't actually go to any of the state-funded agencies amongst my client list, and finally; C. The real 'vested interest' for me would be to follow your self-serving position - that the tax increase burden should be extended to non-property owners, thereby reducing my burden.

But then logic or accuracy aren't exactly watchwords in your position so far.

For a man who doesn't oppose cuts in the PS, you spend a lot of your time defending and questioning why they should have their wages cut.

I think any property tax should be extended to everyone who avails of the services that the LA's provide, yes.

It's still in your interest to keep the taxes coming though, you may not get work off the LA's but you wouldn't want any other agencies cut if the LA's need more funding from central funds.

gerryo777

alastair wrote: »

What would you have us compared to then?

I'd like to think that we wouldn't compare ourselves to anywhere and that we could manage our own finances properly without having to copy anywhere else.

Not lightly though if past experience is anything to go by.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

For a man who doesn't oppose cuts in the PS, you spend a lot of your time defending and questioning why they should have their wages cut.

I'm just not one for knee-jerk venting. I don't know if county managers offer value for money - so I'm not going to pretend otherwise. Their salary scale seems in tune with extra-national salaries for the same job.

kr7 wrote: »

I think any property tax should be extended to everyone who avails of the services that the LA's provide, yes.

Despite not owning said property. Check.

kr7 wrote: »

It's still in your interest to keep the taxes coming though, you may not get work off the LA's but you wouldn't want any other agencies cut if the LA's need more funding from central funds.

Local authority funding from central funds has already been cut - that train has left the station. As I say - your stated position would be the genuinely self-serving one for me to take. And yet I haven't. Kinda strange for someone accused of 'vested interests', eh?

alastair

gerryo777 wrote: »

I'd like to think that we wouldn't compare ourselves to anywhere

That's handy. Ignorance is bliss?

gerryo777

alastair wrote: »

That's handy. Ignorance is bliss?

That's handy, using the bit of my post that suits your agenda.

You seem to be very good at that.

donalg1

kr7 wrote: »

For a man who doesn't oppose cuts in the PS, you spend a lot of your time defending and questioning why they should have their wages cut.

I think any property tax should be extended to everyone who avails of the services that the LA's provide, yes.

It's still in your interest to keep the taxes coming though, you may not get work off the LA's but you wouldn't want any other agencies cut if the LA's need more funding from central funds.

Thats fair enough and I do agree with you about everyone paying to a certain extent, it is most definitely unfair that those using local services arent always liable for paying for them. Yet the unfairness has existed pretty much forever, its only now that people seem to have a problem with it for some reason which I have still to figure out.

However, this is a property tax and household charge so those that own property pay the property tax.

You said you have a small business, well arent you a little concerned that the LA will increase your rates next year as a result of the non payment of the HHC by 40% of the population?

alastair

gerryo777 wrote: »

That's handy, using the bit of my post that suits your agenda.

Eh? It's your argument - if it looks kinda stupid on reflection - it's not my fault.

alastair

donalg1 wrote: »

Thats fair enough and I do agree with you about everyone paying to a certain extent, it is most definitely unfair that those using local services arent liable for paying for them

Except that they are liable - just not for a property tax portion, if they don't own property.

kr7

donalg1 wrote: »

Thats fair enough and I do agree with you about everyone paying to a certain extent, it is most definitely unfair that those using local services arent always liable for paying for them. Yet the unfairness has existed pretty much forever, its only now that people seem to have a problem with it for some reason which I have still to figure out.

However, this is a property tax and household charge so those that own property pay the property tax.

You said you have a small business, well arent you a little concerned that the LA will increase your rates next year as a result of the non payment of the HHC by 40% of the population?

I work from home donal.

As I've said, I'll pay a charge similar to a 'council tax'.
I won't be paying an extra property tax that only owners have to pay while vast numbers of people don't pay any extra for their local services.

alastair

kr7 wrote: »

As I've said, I'll pay a charge similar to a 'council tax'.
I won't be paying an extra property tax that only owners have to pay

Well - actually you will. Plus penalties of course.