Kilkenny Skatepark Campaign.

Einhard

I think a skate park would be a great idea. I also think a 50 000 seater stadium would be a lovely idea. Unfortunately, I live in the real world and logical considerations such as cost and sustainability come into it. Now, obviously, a 50 000 seater stadium would be ridiculous in Kilkenny. A skate park though, might not be such an unfeasible idea. But because nobody has produced any facts or figures for it, an informed opinion cannot be formed.

I think it's frankly shocking that a campaign that, apparently, has been running for 20 years hasn't done this research. Or worse, has done research and not released it. How much would a skate park cost for starters? How on earth can people seek support for such a project, and yet not give accurate figurs for construction and maintenance. I wouldn't buy a Mars bar without knowng the cost- yet I'm expected to buy a skate park in absolute ignorance?

Also, how many people would use it? Surely, after two decades, the campaign must have detailed figures for this? yet nothing about it. We're assured that a good few people would use it, and this figure would increase in time. But it's all conjecture. There are no decent figures. Actually, there are no figures full stop. The skate park could be a tremendous success, attracting thousands of people. Or it could attract nobody and become a total white elephant, draining local coffers. But we can't know because there's no data.

Finally, there's the fact that this campaign have apparently done no fundraising of their own. A few years ago, a group decided that Kilkenny needed a hospice. Rather than just sit around and make videos, they set up a committee and did a load of fundraising. I've partaken in several quizes and events for the Susie Long Hospice. Yet I've never heard about a fundraiser for this cause. And before people claim that young people can't organise such things, I've been to the Kilkenny Roller Hockey quizes which were all organised by youths.

All in all, I have to say that this campaign seems quite shambolic. I mean that with the best intentions. If people want a skatepark, they need to organise effectively. I'd happily support the project if the questions I ask were answered to my satisfaction. But the campaign seems all noise and little or no action, offering little and criticising as old fogiesanyone who doesn't fall in alongside them. I can't support something abot which I know nothing. The fact that we're little closer to a skate park after 20 years of campaigning is an inditment not of Kilkenny society, r local authorities, but rather of the the people behind the campaign.

foxcoverteddy

Cabaal if I could shake your hand I would, that last post was just what we needed, with Einhard we might well achieve a valid discussion and perhaps a result, in due course.
The one thing that bother's me is the jobs, you and everyone else should be aware part time work is premium at the moment, shops are not hiring youngster's.
Yes the money will have to come from parents, naturally, so we need a committee to get this off the ground, for the fund raising and obtaining some relevent figures.
If we can obtain data of similar projects in the UK, perhaps the councils will give the info as to costing and usage.
We also want details on what we expect our skatepark to be, is it just skates or include BMXer's.
Will it be open to all, or run by the council or what.
Insurance is a problem, not unless you enter at your own risk.
Are we then ignoring cyclists?
We will need some info who is interested in the project.
So I am not all hot air and pie in the sky, I still think the ring road is rubbish.
Look forward to some action. Foxy

S28382

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

Cabaal if I could shake your hand I would, that last post was just what we needed, with Einhard we might well achieve a valid discussion and perhaps a result, in due course.
The one thing that bother's me is the jobs, you and everyone else should be aware part time work is premium at the moment, shops are not hiring youngster's.
Yes the money will have to come from parents, naturally, so we need a committee to get this off the ground, for the fund raising and obtaining some relevent figures.
If we can obtain data of similar projects in the UK, perhaps the councils will give the info as to costing and usage.
We also want details on what we expect our skatepark to be, is it just skates or include BMXer's.
Will it be open to all, or run by the council or what.
Insurance is a problem, not unless you enter at your own risk.
Are we then ignoring cyclists?
We will need some info who is interested in the project.
So I am not all hot air and pie in the sky, I still think the ring road is rubbish.
Look forward to some action. Foxy

Foxy you need to suit up and join a political party. With all of these suggestions you have and your positive and in some way disillusioned suggestions you would make a fantastic public representative. Foxy i admire your want for better things for KK but i think you are all talk or in this case type and i dont think you would actually do a thing yourself to even help the skateboarders get their skatepark. I know for a fact that the skatepark in Waterford is only used by a handful of people a very very small number so building one in KK would be crazy.

I do think it is a good idea to have something for them but given that there is more pressing things that KK needs i dont think it will ever be built. Im just happy that they have put footpaths on the rest of the outer ring road so now i can bring my boys on a cycle without fear of them being run over by a car.

foxcoverteddy

s28382
is that a fact about waterford having a ready made park for the lads, if so then it would a waste of time going down that road, rather akin to the hand ball alley's.
However we are left with cyclist's, if they are putting in cycle paths, so well and good, why not make the surface smooth so the skateboarder's can also get some mileage out of them.
College road seems to be the ultimate disaster where cycles and pedestrians are sharing virtually the same piece of tarmac.
There are those who enjoy walking either for fun or the health benefits, do they have to make way for the cyclists and skateboarders.
We have walkers and traffic mixed in Callan, there is no footpath, just a yellow line, not that a footpath will help that much but we might be able to use it for skateboarding etc.
Any facts you can come up with re skateboarding would be welcome, I am not one to flog a dead horse as they say.
As for political parties, I have very little faith in the current situation that we can produce people of the right calibre to run our super country.
We have seen and it is still prevelent, greed, the noses are in the trough as much as before.
The old values have been replaced, perhaps honesty and integrity never existed.
Local politics is perhaps as bad as what we have in the Dail.
But as always thank you for your input, though I await your further post's which could well determine whether we close the thread.
Equally anyone who can contribute to this please do so.
Thanks.

frankie2shoes

It seems to me that skateboarding is more than just a sport and more of a cultural thing. Its more about hanging out with your friends than practicing tricks all day long. With this in mind, would it not be more favourable to find a central spot in the city, with a smooth surface and a few small ramps, rails and what-not, than a full blown skate park? If this was to prove popular then the next step would be to campaign for a full size park. It would be far easier to sell this idea to the council than what you are proposing (and you could raise the money yourself a lot easier too as the cost would be significantly lower) And how many young people are gonna go all the way out to hebron to hang out when half their friends are in town. promoting a safe social area for our kids to hang out and be the frustrated teenagers we all once were is important and I for one would support any well thought proposal that enhances kilkenny for our youth.

foxcoverteddy

Yes you are right, on all counts, you are reading where the thread is going, whilst everyones comments add something to the campaign.
The Hebron or anything outside the inner city would not really be appropriate, I personally think the mayors walk would be ideal.
No no the people should not pay, if they want a park let them get some cash together, oop's why can't it be a public ammenity.
The biggest problem is that older people have forgotten their youth and are approaching the campaign from maybe a down to eartrh point.
If we had the resemblence of a decen t city transport system maybe away from the centre might be an answer, we haven't got sod all.
You might get we didn't have one when we were young, ah times have changed, you let the businessmen of such respectability plunder the coffers.
Frankie2shoes well said.

Cabaal

frankie2shoes wrote: »

It seems to me that skateboarding is more than just a sport and more of a cultural thing. Its more about hanging out with your friends than practicing tricks all day long. With this in mind, would it not be more favourable to find a central spot in the city, with a smooth surface and a few small ramps, rails and what-not, than a full blown skate park? If this was to prove popular then the next step would be to campaign for a full size park. It would be far easier to sell this idea to the council than what you are proposing (and you could raise the money yourself a lot easier too as the cost would be significantly lower)

And how many young people are gonna go all the way out to hebron to hang out when half their friends are in town. promoting a safe social area for our kids to hang out and be the frustrated teenagers we all once were is important and I for one would support any well thought proposal that enhances kilkenny for our youth.

I'd have to agree here, its not just a sport thing it is certainly a social thing and thats clear as day when you see the teenagers hanging around.

Due to this the Hebron won't properly work, sure land would be cheaper etc but its too far away from the city centre, shops etc

The most suitable place I can think of is the castle park but I'd see hopes of it being built in the park as slim or none because it would involved the approval of the OPW.....though perhaps if they were approached with a very well thought out plan it may help their case.

As for the suggestion by foxcoverteddy that a better public transport system would enable the skate park to be located away from the centre, this is nonsense. Waterford has a far superior transport system and still the teenagers wouldn't go out the Cork road.

At times they still won't even bother going to the people's park either and thats not very far from city centre,

foxcoverteddy

Okay where are some more youngster's to post, parent's get your skateboarding off spring to post, don't worry about the old foggies, they try to be helpful. Come on if you want action go for it, sit in Market Cross with a petition or Market Yard do something.
Though the Boards tend to be older people..

S28382

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

Okay where are some more youngster's to post, parent's get your skateboarding off spring to post, don't worry about the old foggies, they try to be helpful. Come on if you want action go for it, sit in Market Cross with a petition or Market Yard do something.
Though the Boards tend to be older people..

They might do it if you do it. They aint no point in preaching to the choir if you aint gonna sing yourself, and by the way im 30 im certainly no old foggie.

mickgreene

Hi there, my name is Mick Greene and I have been working with and for the skaters in Kilkenny for the last few years. There has been a desire for a skatepark in kilkenny for approx 20 years but it is not entirely true to say that the campaign has been ongoing for 20 years. This was first proposed officially to the Mayor 13 years ago. In all cases, the campaign has been centred around putting pressume on the local authorities to provide the facility.

In my opinion, there are several factors that have prevented this project from reaching completion. Firstly, the main users are young adults who (a) don't have a vote and (b) are generally not allowed to control such a campaign and all that it entails such as fundraising, PR, etc. Secondly, there are several reasons why the young people loose interest in the campaign - lack of delivery, leaving kilkenny for college, starting work, etc. For this reason there is a big turnover in the local skate community. Finally, once this project entered the political arena it meant that party members lined up behind their whip to support or oppose it depending on which voter base they were trying to appeal to. This has resulted in painstakingly slow progress in the efforst to provide this as a public amenity.

This current "campaign" is different and that is why I am confident that we will finally get action this time. I have been working with this group for the last few years and I have worked hard to empower these young people to make decisions for themselves. Key groups like Kilkenny360 and Urban Sports Kilkenny have joined forces to give the campaign a real depth of resource. The group recognises that it can no longer work as a pressure group but as a club in its own right - one that will become self funding through fundraising, sponsorship, etc.

Regardless of whether you feel that public money should be spent on this project or not, no-one can deny the merits of young people to take part in an active and sociable sport. Many of the points/suggestions made on this thread have been assessed and worked through previously but there are some excellent new suggestions being made. I would strongly encourage the people who have taken the time to contribute to this discussion to make the next step and join our group in realising our ambition of providing a safe, secure, all-weather facility for our young people to play & socialise. Feel free to contact me on greenemedia@gmail.com if you want to actively support us.

Doff

Where would you ideally like to situate it?

mahamageehad

mickgreene wrote: »

Hi there, my name is Mick Greene and I have been working with and for the skaters in Kilkenny for the last few years. There has been a desire for a skatepark in kilkenny for approx 20 years but it is not entirely true to say that the campaign has been ongoing for 20 years. This was first proposed officially to the Mayor 13 years ago. In all cases, the campaign has been centred around putting pressume on the local authorities to provide the facility.

In my opinion, there are several factors that have prevented this project from reaching completion. Firstly, the main users are young adults who (a) don't have a vote and (b) are generally not allowed to control such a campaign and all that it entails such as fundraising, PR, etc. Secondly, there are several reasons why the young people loose interest in the campaign - lack of delivery, leaving kilkenny for college, starting work, etc. For this reason there is a big turnover in the local skate community. Finally, once this project entered the political arena it meant that party members lined up behind their whip to support or oppose it depending on which voter base they were trying to appeal to. This has resulted in painstakingly slow progress in the efforst to provide this as a public amenity.

This current "campaign" is different and that is why I am confident that we will finally get action this time. I have been working with this group for the last few years and I have worked hard to empower these young people to make decisions for themselves. Key groups like Kilkenny360 and Urban Sports Kilkenny have joined forces to give the campaign a real depth of resource. The group recognises that it can no longer work as a pressure group but as a club in its own right - one that will become self funding through fundraising, sponsorship, etc.

Regardless of whether you feel that public money should be spent on this project or not, no-one can deny the merits of young people to take part in an active and sociable sport. Many of the points/suggestions made on this thread have been assessed and worked through previously but there are some excellent new suggestions being made. I would strongly encourage the people who have taken the time to contribute to this discussion to make the next step and join our group in realising our ambition of providing a safe, secure, all-weather facility for our young people to play & socialise. Feel free to contact me on greenemedia@gmail.com if you want to actively support us.

Is there any actual fundraising going on or is it expected that the council will fund everything?

The Asset

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

Sorry to say you won't succeed if you don't shout and make a noise, come on skateboarder's, parents all those in favour, it could be a long job, make your views known, use the Boards, tell friends, mum and dad, sister's uncles etc.
You want a decent place, lets do it, see the money wasted on the ring road and the cobbles in Keiron St and even worse up to the castle.
A skatepark for 2013, what about a cycle track in the park.
Sitting on the backside will not do it.

HON teddy boy ahahahaha i hate skaters but shur few naggins be grand lad who is to say there wont be a skate park for 2013 ? well i dont really give a dam

mickgreene

Doff wrote: »

Where would you ideally like to situate it?

We would like to situate it as centrally as possible but in reality we are looking to the industrial parks. Hebron Industrial estate is no further to travel to than O'Loughlins so it would be an option.

Mahamageehad - we are looking to fund this directly ourselves and we have started fundraising. The fundraising drive will really kick off over the coming months so we would appreciate any contribution you would be willing to make.

The Asset - I won't ask why you don't like skaters but in reality that's not important. Whats important is that we continue to support young people who want to engage in sports.

Davaeo09

mickgreene wrote: »

We would like to situate it as centrally as possible but in reality we are looking to the industrial parks. Hebron Industrial estate is no further to travel to than O'Loughlins so it would be an option.

Mahamageehad - we are looking to fund this directly ourselves and we have started fundraising. The fundraising drive will really kick off over the coming months so we would appreciate any contribution you would be willing to make.

The Asset - I won't ask why you don't like skaters but in reality that's not important. Whats important is that we continue to support young people who want to engage in sports.

Looking forward to hearing more about this in the coming weeks/months. Keep us updated please.

Wimbago

Wasn't the outside park 1st proposed to be in the small green across from the current cinema/Fair Green?

Don't think it's been mentioned yet but surely insurance is the biggest obstacle to something being created by the council/in a public area? There's no getting away from it but there'd be plenty of broken bones over a couple of years of having a skate park (broken ribs as a young skater back this up!). If it's a public facility I'm sure the council would be the ones getting the heat every time some ends up doing some damage to themselves?

Doff

Wimbago wrote: »

Wasn't the outside park 1st proposed to be in the small green across from the current cinema/Fair Green?

Don't think it's been mentioned yet but surely insurance is the biggest obstacle to something being created by the council/in a public area? There's no getting away from it but there'd be plenty of broken bones over a couple of years of having a skate park (broken ribs as a young skater back this up!). If it's a public facility I'm sure the council would be the ones getting the heat every time some ends up doing some damage to themselves?

Don't allow them in without proper protective gear and injuries are at the skaters risk. Better that than having them hop there head in front of all the tourists on the parade. If you get your leg broke playing on the astro in the loretto or watershed they will help you whatever way they can, but its not their fault.

Davaeo09

A helmet should be mandatory and wrist/knee/elbow pads should be worn by all under 16 y/o's imo.. There will always be the one or two that need a warning but this was how it was run out in Kiltorcan and they had some big, big ramps. Never really heard anyone debate it either

Cabaal

Doff wrote: »

Don't allow them in without proper protective gear and injuries are at the skaters risk.

Problem is if you look for them to wear protective gear then they won't use it and then you've just built a very expensive bit of "modern art".

Doff

Cabaal wrote: »

Problem is if you look for them to wear protective gear then they won't use it and then you've just built a very expensive bit of "modern art".

Well if they won't compromise on it they don't deserve a skatepark imo. Safety will always be a big issue with this due to the nature of it. Of course things like this would have to be sorted before any plans are made though.

Captain Havoc

And how do you propose it would be monitored? Shall we pay someone to sit on a chair there and read a book all day? I don't suing Coillte every time I fall off my mountain bike in Ticknock nor do others.

Doff

Captain Havoc wrote: »

And how do you propose it would be monitored? Shall we pay someone to sit on a chair there and read a book all day? I don't suing Coillte every time I fall off my mountain bike in Ticknock nor do others.

Doesn't need to be, as long as they brought them in with them its there choice to use them or not and the park wouldn't be held liable. For what its worth there is plenty of people getting paid to sit and monitor cameras.

Wimbago

The only way a skate park will work is if not monitored (or required to be monitored) i.e. it doesn't require financial input of any sort to maintain after being built.

If there is a requirement for people to be one site from 9-9 or whatever it will never go ahead, either to collect or check membership or even to ensure safety measures are enforced.


Which comes back to my point, no one is going to want to be held liable for claims that will inevitably follow.

Not sure how much weight a 'users skate at own risk' signs has in passing the liability from a parks owner to the skaters themselves, but unless it can be 100% passed to the skaters the council will never have any input into it imo.


It'll really only ever work as a private venture but between rents in available premises in the city centre and the unlikelyhood of a skate park being financially viable, getting the money together for a private set-up might even be harder to do.

Captain Havoc

Wimbago wrote: »

Which comes back to my point, no one is going to want to be held liable for claims that will inevitably follow.

I don't think they are inevitable, as I previously said, Coillte don't have this problem with their mountain bike track which are equally if not more dangerous.

Wimbago

Maybe I'm thinking too much of an open plan, low maintenance concrete skate park as opposed to something similar to what was in Kiltorcan which is what I'd imagine skaters would be more interested in.

Cabaal

Wimbago wrote: »

Maybe I'm thinking too much of an open plan, low maintenance concrete skate park as opposed to something similar to what was in Kiltorcan which is what I'd imagine skaters would be more interested in.

Think what Waterford have in the People's Park, if you want anything more fancy then imho its a pipe dream.

They can be more interested in something else all they want but unless they they fund and cover ongoing costs its just not going to happen. Concrete park has a far bigger chance of happening

Davaeo09

Beggers can't be choosers. Cliche I know but I think skaters in Kilkenny would be happy with some sort of Skatepark and I imagine that if it came to being allowed to have a park or not that people would simply use the protective gear.

Kilkenny360

Ed Downey (Boardman) is embarking on a journey from the north-most tip of Ireland (Malin Head) to its most southerly point (Mizen Head).

Ed is aiming to roll the 412 miles in 7 days breaking the existing record of 11 days and raise money for the Kilkenny Skatepark Campaign.

http://www.boardman.ie/

S28382

Thats alot to be doing for a few slabs of smooth concrete

Captain Havoc

Kilkenny360 wrote: »

Ed Downey (Boardman) is embarking on a journey from the north-most tip of Ireland (Malin Head) to its most southerly point (Mizen Head).

Ed is aiming to roll the 412 miles in 7 days breaking the existing record of 11 days and raise money for the Kilkenny Skatepark Campaign.

http://www.boardman.ie/

Best of luck to him.