Some news re MK3'S

Oscar Bravo

www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=JUL366095

I guess it's no surprise that they'll be scrapped.

xtradel

Approximately 90 vehicles stabled in 4 locations around the country.

Do they even know how many they have??

Captain Chaos

xtradel wrote: »

Do they even know how many they have??

They may be keeping a few as backup for when the DDs sets have to get their mid life refurb.



Yeah right,:D

Itssoeasy

This is an example of IE been given far too much money and they seem to not have enough sense obviously.

Captain Chaos

Itssoeasy wrote: »

This is an example of IE been given far too much money and they seem to not have enough sense obviously.

Well the Mk3s had to go as they had to cut staff numbers. By getting rid of the Mk3s they removed the need for a train guard, the driver of the shunt release loco and a shunter to couple the loco up to the coaches at each end of the line.

But in saying all that, this is now the end of the best coaching stock to ever run in this country and will not be topped again. The 201s will be the last loco IE will ever operate. It's all railcars and MPVs for here on in once the tara traffic turns to road transport.

Itssoeasy

It amazes me and it has been said in this thread in that IR appear not to know how many mk3s they actually have. Surely IR have the ability to count ? 1...2...3...4....5 it's not rocket science.

end of the road

Captain Chaos wrote: »

By getting rid of the Mk3s they removed the need for a train guard, the driver of the shunt release loco and a shunter to couple the loco up to the coaches at each end of the line.

i thought they had dvts/control cars? that was supposed to remove swapping the loco at each end? forgive my ignorence but.
1. what are MPVs?
2. what do you mean by shunt release loco?

Cookie_Monster

Could be that they've offered first pick to the preservation societies so they do not know how many will need to be scrapped and how many will be taken?

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

2. what do you mean by shunt release loco?

In Heuston, when a train arrived in they had to:

uncouple the arriving loco (lets say a 201)
attach a pilot loco to the opposite side (lets say a 141)
pull the coaches out
release the 201
shunt the coaches back to the platform with the 141
uncouple the 141 and attach the original 201 again (or another from Inchicore)

Not an easy process but one which was undertaken many times every day.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Could be that they've offered first pick to the preservation societies so they do not know how many will need to be scrapped and how many will be taken?

Could the preservation societies take them on? Being air conditioned they're not exactly suited to occasional use. Plus they've probably got mushrooms growing in them at this stage!

Cookie_Monster

Karsini wrote: »

In Heuston, when a train arrived in they had to:

uncouple the arriving loco (lets say a 201)
attach a pilot loco to the opposite side (lets say a 141)
pull the coaches out
release the 201
shunt the coaches back to the platform with the 141
uncouple the 141 and attach the original 201 again (or another from Inchicore)

Not an easy process but one which was undertaken many times every day.

they just attacehd a 201 to the other end, hauled it off on the scheduled service and then cleared the initial 201 away once the train had left, certainly that what happened in later years

flyingsnail

Karsini wrote: »

.



Could the preservation societies take them on? Being air conditioned they're not exactly suited to occasional use. Plus they've probably got mushrooms growing in them at this stage!

They were withdraw as work came due so all that would have to be done before they could be put into use. And the fact that they are air braked would really limit their usability.

Cookie_Monster

end of the road wrote: »

1. what are MPVs?

this is an MPV, multi purpose vehicle

Captain Chaos

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

they just attacehd a 201 to the other end, hauled it off on the scheduled service and then cleared the initial 201 away once the train had left, certainly that what happened in later years

That was when the had plenty of 201s and 071s on hand after 2007/8.

On the summer beat seasons 2002-2006 it was a different story, every loco IE had was in use every day. Good times.

Captain Chaos

end of the road wrote: »

i thought they had dvts/control cars? that was supposed to remove swapping the loco at each end? forgive my ignorence but.

They had 5 Mk3 DVTs for push pull sets, one was always a maintenance spare. There were 11 regular Mk3 rakes in every day use and 2 back up rakes. Mk3 push pulls could not manage peak services on Cork or Galway routes as they could only operate as 6 car rakes including the DVT compared to 8 or 9 car rakes of standard Mk3s. They were good for other routes but were limited to 70mph when being pushed.

Sometimes they ended up with non PP capable 201s hauling them and the 201 would have to run around the set and haul it from the DVT end.

Captain Chaos

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Sometimes they ended up with non PP capable 201s hauling them and the 201 would have to run around the set and haul it from the DVT end.

I heard a story from a guy in IE that a non-PP 201 once ended up pushing a Mark 3 service from Limerick and it worked fine, but CTC weren't too pleased and ordered a run-around at Thurles.

I don't think he's the type to tell fibs but I do know the buffers on the non-PP 201s can't be retracted.

Maverick88

I'm surprised that no UK operators seemed to want to them.

Chiltern railways (from Marylebone) have just refurbed their MK3's with power doors and chemical retension toilets. If you type Chiltern railways Mk3's into Google images there's some shots of them.

They believe that the structure is good for at least another 10 years. What should be remembered is that these MK3's will be several years older than the IE fleet that's being scrapped/ left to rot until nothing else worth doing but scrapping

Captain Chaos

Karsini wrote: »

I heard a story from a guy in IE that a non-PP 201 once ended up pushing a Mark 3 service from Limerick and it worked fine, but CTC weren't too pleased and ordered a run-around at Thurles.

I don't think he's the type to tell fibs but I do know the buffers on the non-PP 201s can't be retracted.

Yep, I read that before on the IRN forums some years ago. Strange if true. About the buffers on the 201s, how the did the 121s manage with the PP sets?

Oscar Bravo

Spot on Captain Chaos,i remember on a few occassions a 201 hauling a p/p set ex WPT. 201+DVT+4 63XX.

YouTookMyName

Scrapping MK3's. Sad day.

Millem

Does anyone have an idea of what sort of outlay would be required to purchase a pp DVT ? I have a small hospitality business and would love to have a mk3 to use as a cafe / diner area

Millem

Millem wrote: »

Does anyone have an idea of what sort of outlay would be required to purchase a pp DVT ? I have a small hospitality business and would love to have a mk3 to use as a cafe / diner area

There's only two left, the other three were scrapped fairly quickly.

Millem

Karsini wrote: »

Millem wrote: »

Does anyone have an idea of what sort of outlay would be required to purchase a pp DVT ? I have a small hospitality business and would love to have a mk3 to use as a cafe / diner area

There's only two left, the other three were scrapped fairly quickly.

Thanks karsini, afaik 6101 and 6105 remain (the latter is at birth wall). I think 6103 was shot at / blown up as some sort of army exercise.

Anyone have any idea how much that hotel in naas paid for the international set carriages ?

Millem

*north wall. Damn predictive text !

Rud

Why weren't the push pull sets with the DVTs kept?If they can use the MK4s and DD sets which are all loco hauled,why weren't they told to keep these sets also rather than having money just thrown at them for the 22ks?

It's a sad time to see these fine,comfortable rakes just been done away with but as has been said many times,the state they are in,the way they have been left to rot away there wasn't much hope for them in the future

Being the age i am i only remember travelling on these and the MK2s and i always loved them,great memories.I would love to get my hands on one or two of the emergency exit layout signs that used to be inside at the exit doors,i can't find a picture of them.Does anyone know how i would go about getting some of these or have i to buy one whole coach to get my hands on them???

dowlingm

If the will was there, CAF could have been asked to build a follow-on order of DVTs with the Citygold cars fitted as transition vehicles to interface Mk4 and Mk3 power and control. Mk3s get a retention tank, wifi, pushpull wiring and an internal refurb. No release movements, no 75mph speed restrictions like the 6100s.

But Dick and Co wanted more Korean DMUs so that's that.

end of the road

dowlingm wrote: »

Dick and Co wanted more Korean DMUs so that's that.

did he not want the pension more? stored 201s 2700s and 8200s next for the brakers anyone?

Losty Dublin

Millem wrote: »

Does anyone have an idea of what sort of outlay would be required to purchase a pp DVT ? I have a small hospitality business and would love to have a mk3 to use as a cafe / diner area

Including the removal costs from specialist firms which you'd need to pick up, you are probably looking at a 5 figure sum. Don't forget, these are not wheelchair accessible, they will need to be refitted from top to bottom for electrics, fittings, plumbing etc and you'll need to prepart a bit of land to rehome it. It's a very big ask.

flyingsnail

Millem wrote: »

Does anyone have an idea of what sort of outlay would be required to purchase a pp DVT ? I have a small hospitality business and would love to have a mk3 to use as a cafe / diner area

I have no idea what you would pay but don’t forget delivery would not be included and you would probably be paying the likes of Allelys 5k to 6k to move it.

Captain Chaos

end of the road wrote: »

did he not want the pension more? stored 201s 2700s and 8200s next for the brakers anyone?

Well the 8200s were a mistake to begin with. Too small of a fleet to carry spares for, turned out to be lemons that even the Alstom engineers can't sort out. They should have been scrapped 4 years ago. Besides they had very bad ride quality, suffered from regular wheel flats and had terrible small hard plastic bucket seats.

CIE

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Well the 8200s were a mistake to begin with. Too small of a fleet to carry spares for, turned out to be lemons that even the Alstom engineers can't sort out. They should have been scrapped 4 years ago. Besides they had very bad ride quality, suffered from regular wheel flats and had terrible small hard plastic bucket seats.

Can't sort out, or won't? It's funny how this class amazingly did not have a warranty and was such a mess that Alstom suddenly didn't have spare parts for it. Sure, just scrap them; after all, taxpayer money and borrowed money can be conjured out of thin air...

L1011

Whoever did not reject the 8200s back to Alstom needs to be fired, then publically tarred and feathered.

davidlacey

MYOB wrote: »

Whoever did not reject the 8200s back to Alstom needs to be fired, then publically tarred and feathered.

Anyone hazard a guess of the last working of mark3s on regular service?

goingnowhere

Limerick Ennis

end of the road

was it the friday evening service to athlone like the last run of the mark 2s and cravens? while some long distance services had to put up with 28 and 29 k stock. oh well.

foggy_lad

davidlacey wrote: »

MYOB wrote: »

Whoever did not reject the 8200s back to Alstom needs to be fired, then publically tarred and feathered.

Anyone hazard a guess of the last working of mark3s on regular service?

Was it a carlow sh1tbox special? They used to swnd all the oldest rubbish down the line to carlow and Waterford. And bus eireann are still doing the same!

foggy_lad

foggy_lad wrote: »

Was it a carlow sh1tbox special? They used to swnd all the oldest rubbish down the line to carlow and Waterford. And bus eireann are still doing the same!

It was the IRRS WRC railtour on 24th April 2010 - the Limerick to Ennis section was operated as a revenue earning service.

Rud

davidlacey wrote: »

Anyone hazard a guess of the last working of mark3s on regular service?

As far as i remember the last non-railtour regular working of the mk3s by was either on the Dublin to Athlone or Dublin to Ballina route that worked on Fridays.I know this is very vague but that's all i can remember

EDIT actually i'm nearly sure it was the Friday only evening Dublin to Ballina train

yachtsman

Is'nt it ironic that Chiltern Trains, where the current CEO of IE was so reveered, is now the host to refurbished Mk3s. The IE CEO on the other hand will shortly depart IE with a golden legacy having removed Mk3s from our landscape, as well as practically all rail freight and loco hauled passenger services. We can thank him for reducing our once proud railway network to little more than a provincial slow tramline. At least the British people can thank their luck for had he stayed at Chiltern their railway network might have suffered a similar fate and they would'nt have Mk 3s today. He can't take all the praise though for our provincial tramline plastic services. He was aided and abetted by some of our own "enthusiastic" management who loved photographing our system before they destroyed it and then going on lecture tours crying crocodile tears on its demise. Iarnrod GUBU!

L1011

Did "Richard" Fearn work for Chiltern? Thought it was BR then Railtrack.

Definitely a case of following on the tradition of retiring to Sodor, sorry, Ireland of senior British railway staff.

davidlacey

MYOB wrote: »

Did "Richard" Fearn work for Chiltern? Thought it was BR then Railtrack.

Definitely a case of following on the tradition of retiring to Sodor, sorry, Ireland of senior British railway staff.

Who is technically in charge fearn or kenny?

L1011

davidlacey wrote: »

Who is technically in charge fearn or kenny?

Barry Kenny is PR, that's all.

dowlingm

MYOB wrote: »

Barry Kenny is PR, that's all.

hmm

Who is Keyser Soze? He is supposed to be Turkish. Some say his father was German. Nobody believed he was real. Nobody ever saw him or knew anybody that ever worked directly for him, but to hear Kobayashi tell it, anybody could have worked for Soze. You never knew. That was his power. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. And like that, poof. He's gone.

lord lucan

Rud wrote: »

I would love to get my hands on one or two of the emergency exit layout signs that used to be inside at the exit doors,i can't find a picture of them.Does anyone know how i would go about getting some of these or have i to buy one whole coach to get my hands on them???

Is it these ones?

Rud

lord lucan wrote: »

Is it these ones?

Yes that's the one.Any idea how i could purchase one of them before they scrap the MK3s or who to contact?

Judgement Day

Rud wrote: »

Yes that's the one.Any idea how i could purchase one of them before they scrap the MK3s or who to contact?

No chance - you will have to keep your ear to the ground and find out where, who and when they are being scrapped and make your own arrangements. Mine are already in train - sorry!

I managed to get one of the brake lever covers from 185 before she was scrapped. Might see if I can get the old route map from a Mark 3.

foggy_lad

Karsini wrote: »

I managed to get one of the brake lever covers from 185 before she was scrapped. Might see if I can get the old route map from a Mark 3.

Will that involve trespassing on the railway?

foggy_lad

foggy_lad wrote: »

Will that involve trespassing on the railway?

Not from me anyway, I wasn't the one who physically removed it.

Judgement Day

foggy_lad wrote: »

Will that involve trespassing on the railway?

Mine will - needs must when the devil drives.

071railfan

Just heard about the scrapping over on IRN. A very sad day for Irish railways.

I was just wondering if anyone has heard if any of the coaches are going to go to preservation groups. Jackie Whaaayyylan of the WRC has been taking alot of stuff of late such as a bubble cement wagon and a 4 wheel ballast wagon so one or two might end up there to be used on the proposed 1600mm line to kilkee. He has a few mk 2s that he plans to make into sort of hostel/camping units for visiting enthusiasts so a a mk 3 would be a nice addition. He could charge extra for the additional comfort!!!!

I really hope someone preserved a Mk3, preferably running - it would be a real shame if it were no longer possible to ride in a Mk 3 coach.

What is needed now is a good photo survey of a few of the better coaches. I wonder would IE agree to let one or two photographers access to Drogheada or Waterford for a day to survey the coaches?

After this, there really is very little left for enthusiasts in Ireland. Once the 071s go there will be nothing of note left. Mk 4s and ICRs are in no way interesting at all, not to me anyway.