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Rape Victim facing fine for naming victims

245

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Whereas if you drink so much that you black out, you are absolved of all responsibility?
    Makes the attacker even worse IMO - if the subject of their attack is that vulnerable (male or female).

    But if she broke the law, she broke the law - even if it's felt the law's an ass.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,670 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    So you think she has to accept a potion of the blame for being sexually assaulted, having it photographed, and passed around?

    Is that what you're saying?

    Nope.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    If there was rape, I agree. There is responsibility to not get hammered drunk though and black out. As I said before, if you don't want embarrassing pictures of yoruself passed out at parties on the internet, there is an easy way around that, and that's not blaming. That's just advising responsibilty.

    This isn't about embarrassing pictures of her blacked out, this is embarrassing pictures of her getting sexually assaulted....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombi!


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Nope.

    So what does being passed out and taken advantage of have to do with any kind of "blame" on the victim?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    I'd need a specific case, (not denying it). In any case, people are goign to blame in a case like this. Just to be clear, though, this is more a case of me trying to find out what they actually did. Information is vague at best.



    wasn't attacking your or anything was just... puzzled :)

    iirc the footballer rape story of a few months ago where a footballer and a friend brought some drunk girl back to their hotel room and let somebody else have sex with her.. i dunno, dont remember much about it.. I just remember the 5000 page after hours thread and the war of words therein.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    Once they plead guilty and the court case has finished it should be up to her to tell who she likes!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,670 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    humbert wrote: »
    This isn't about embarrassing pictures of her blacked out, this is embarrassing pictures of her getting sexually assaulted....

    ... again, if so (and i would agree with you if that's the case) then why aren't this guys getting a much stiffer penalty?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,012 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Once they plead guilty and the court case has finished it should be up to her to tell who she likes!

    Case aint finished though


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Lets be clear about one thing.

    Name of victims and of the guilty are ordered to be kept out of the press sometimes so that:

    (a) a victim who wishes not to be exposed, is not done so and

    (b) so that a victim might not be exposed (even locally within her living neighbourhood) by the further the naming of the culprits whom also might be previously well known, often in small communities, much equally known.

    People in communities are at times able to put two and two together and often work out who a victim was (then gossip/bitch?) by just knowing who the culprits was in possible other cases.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    The teens are to be sentenced next month, and the judge could reject or modify the terms of the proposed agreement.

    Read more: http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/national/savannah-dietrich-kentucky-teen-faces-charge-for-naming-attackers-on-twitter#ixzz21ToSPLn5


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    humbert wrote: »
    It was established from the outset that she broke the law?

    If a judge court ordered that all names were to remain confidential, then yes, sadly she did break the law.
    Thats always been the case when it comes to defying any judges court orders.

    Was she morally justified, maybe so!
    Was she legally justified in this case? It looks not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,670 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    So what does being passed out and taken advantage of have to do with any kind of "blame" on the victim?

    Put it this way:

    Supposing you go to a party, get pissed, black out. A photo of you shows up on the internet the next day, your boss sees it, fires you. Who's fault is it?

    Supposing you go to a party, get drunk, black out at the wheel of a car and drive it into a bus full of kids. Are you responsible?

    People use the "I was drunk" excuse far too much. not sayign this was the case here, but do people force drink down teenager's troaths at parties these days?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭Killer Wench


    titan18 wrote: »
    They haven't been sentenced yet. They pled guilty to first-degree sexual abuse and misdemeanor voyeurism. I presume they had to cos of evidence and they hope to get off with a smaller punishment. As it's still an ongoing case, the judge rightly told the girl to not speak about it, and as it's a juvenile case, it holds more weight.

    The girl says she can't say what the plea deal punishment was because of a court order it seems, but decided to break the other aspects of that order.

    That's all I can gather about it so far.

    I forget the exact number but it is roughly 90% of all criminal cases end with a plea agreement. The judge still holds the power to accept or reject the agreement at this point. The point is that she really jumped the gun and went outside of court to "seek justice" when the wheels of justice had not fully stopped.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    ... again, if so (and i would agree with you if that's the case) then why aren't this guys getting a much stiffer penalty?

    I don't know but they have been found guilty of a crime of a sexual nature.

    I don't know what acts occurred but blacking out at a house party in no way makes you responsible for a couple of guys sexually molesting you in any way, at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,670 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    wasn't attacking your or anything was just... puzzled :)

    iirc the footballer rape story of a few months ago where a footballer and a friend brought some drunk girl back to their hotel room and let somebody else have sex with her.. i dunno, dont remember much about it.. I just remember the 5000 page after hours thread and the war of words therein.

    Yeah, I know, just a pit puzzled here too. This is AH, and you remember me specifcially for blaming?!

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭mauzo


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Put it this way:

    Supposing you go to a party, get pissed, black out. A photo of you shows up on the internet the next day, your boss sees it, fires you. Who's fault is it?

    Supposing you go to a party, get drunk, black out at the wheel of a car and drive it into a bus full of kids. Are you responsible?

    People use the "I was drunk" excuse far too much. not sayign this was the case here, but do people force drink down teenager's troaths at parties these days?

    Eh sorry I think youre missing the point.

    Getting drunk, passing out and BEING SEXUALLY ASSAULTED is entirely different to what youre talking about!!!!!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭Killer Wench


    Once they plead guilty and the court case has finished it should be up to her to tell who she likes!

    The point is that the case wasn't finished. The plea agreement hadn't been accepted or rejected by the judge.

    He could have said: "Oh hell noes, y'all. This sh*t is too lenient!" but she took the power away from the court to make that decision.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombi!


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Put it this way:

    Supposing you go to a party, get pissed, black out. A photo of you shows up on the internet the next day, your boss sees it, fires you. Who's fault is it?

    Supposing you go to a party, get drunk, black out at the wheel of a car and drive it into a bus full of kids. Are you responsible?

    People use the "I was drunk" excuse far too much. not sayign this was the case here, but do people force drink down teenager's troaths at parties these days?

    If the photo was of me passed out, my own fault.
    If the photo was of me after some people drew me or something, they're at fault, not me.

    Is it the girl's fault she passed out? More than likely, yes.
    Is it her fault in any way someone else took advantage? No, of course not.

    Considering there were two guys, I'd wager they're both at fault.

    Most notably is because they already plead guilty. Hopefully the judge won't take into account that he was "her fault" the two guys assaulted her.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,012 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    I forget the exact number but it is roughly 90% of all criminal cases end with a plea agreement. The judge still holds the power to accept or reject the agreement at this point. The point is that she really jumped the gun and went outside of court to "seek justice" when the wheels of justice had not fully stopped.

    Yup, seems that way from the information provided about it. Seems like a stupid person to do it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,670 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    syndeyfife wrote: »
    Eh sorry I think youre missing the point.



    Getting drunk, passing out and BEING SEXUALLY ASSAULTED is entirely different to what youre talking about!!!!!!!

    We're not talking the responsibility of a person who gets drunk and passes out...?

    There's two issues here, I've dealt with the first.

    Or, to take your line, are you sayign that PEOPLE GEETING BLACKOUT DRUNK shhould have a get out of jail free card for whatever happens next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    EDIT - see Brutal Deluxe's post above.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭mauzo


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    We're not talking the responsibility of a person who gets drunk and passes out...?

    There's two issues here, I've dealt with the first.

    Or, to take your line, are you sayign that PEOPLE GEETING BLACKOUT DRUNK shhould have a get out of jail free card for whatever happens next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    So youre saying that if you pass out youre fair game for anything?!?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,012 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    We're not talking the responsibility of a person who gets drunk and passes out...?

    There's two issues here, I've dealt with the first.

    Or, to take your line, are you sayign that PEOPLE GEETING BLACKOUT DRUNK shhould have a get out of jail free card for whatever happens next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Nah, only if they get raped it seems.


  • Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭PrincessLola


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    We're not talking the responsibility of a person who gets drunk and passes out...?

    What is going on? Are we still talking about a sexual assault, right?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭Killer Wench


    Keep in mind, that each of the 50 states has its own statutes and within those statutes, it will define the offense in question. This case took place in Kentucky and this is how sexual abuse in the first degree is defined:

    http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/510-00/110.PDF


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,670 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    syndeyfife wrote: »
    So youre saying that if you pass out youre fair game for anything?!?

    Any chance you could not begin your posts with "so youre saying"[sic]?

    My post reads as it was posted. It was very clear. Don't intentionally misconstrue it.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭PrincessLola


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Any chance you could not begin your posts with "so youre saying"[sic]?

    My post reads as it was posted. It was very clear. Don't intentionally misconstrue it.

    But it is not very clear. Its *sounds* like you're saying the victim is at fault for passing out?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 169 ✭✭childsplay


    I just don't think it's right that anybody should post photographs of anybody else anywhere without that persons permission.

    If I want my photo on, say, F. book, I can put it there myself. Also, there's the issue of my right to privacy. If I do go out, have a few too many, do something stupid then why does anybody have the right to put images of me up in the public domain.

    Posting photos of me in a vulnerable state is even worse. Help me, don't humiliate me further.

    Posting images of me being assaulted, that's a massive no no.

    I agree that being drunk is no excuse for a lot of things. People need to learn to take personal responsibility. However, being drunk doesn't make it okay for somebody to hurt, assault and injure me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 169 ✭✭childsplay


    I just don't think it's right that anybody should post photographs of anybody else anywhere without that persons permission.

    If I want my photo on, say, F. book, I can put it there myself. Also, there's the issue of my right to privacy. If I do go out, have a few too many, do something stupid then why does anybody have the right to put images of me up in the public domain.

    Posting photos of me in a vulnerable state is even worse. Help me, don't humiliate me further.

    Posting images of me being assaulted, that's a massive no no.

    I agree that being drunk is no excuse for a lot of things. People need to learn to take personal responsibility. However, being drunk doesn't make it okay for somebody to hurt, assault and injure me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Or, to take your line, are you sayign that PEOPLE GEETING BLACKOUT DRUNK shhould have a get out of jail free card for whatever happens next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

    They're not 'in prison' in the first place so why would they need a 'get out of jail free card'?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    Keep in mind, that each of the 50 states has its own statutes and within those statutes, it will define the offense in question. This case took place in Kentucky and this is how sexual abuse in the first degree is defined:

    http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/510-00/110.PDF

    That seems to be a mandatory prison sentence?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,670 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    But it is not very clear. Its *sounds* like you're saying the victim is at fault for passing out?

    It is. I asked a very simple question, not specific to this case: should someone who blacks out drunk not have to bear the consequences? I really, really, can not make it clearer than that and I really really can not see who people think this is absolving the two men! Unless this is what you WANT to read.
    They're not 'in prison' in the first place so why would they need a 'get out of jail free card'?

    Rhetorical question. See above.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭Killer Wench


    humbert wrote: »
    That seems to be a mandatory prison sentence?

    510.110 Sexual abuse in the first degree.
    (1) A person is guilty of sexual abuse in the first degree when:
    (a) He or she subjects another person to sexual contact by forcible compulsion; or
    (b) He or she subjects another person to sexual contact who is incapable of consent because he or she:
    1. Is physically helpless;
    2. Is less than twelve (12) years old; or
    3. Is mentally incapacitated; or


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    I think this thread is going way off track.

    The fact is that she went against the judges orders.
    Thats why she is now being held accountable.

    * I support her right to see that her attackers are exposed.
    * I support her right to freedom of expression.
    * I support her right to see that she gain some dignity back and that the culprits are held to full account of their actions.
    * I don't support her right though to break the law in this case - a law that is often there lets not forget, to also protect other victims - and defy a judge before he can even complete his job, with the guilty, as in this case.

    Had she exposed their names when the case was over - I'd stand behind her and defend her wholeheartedly under the circumstances, surrounding her particular case.

    As it is, she did herself no favours sadly by 'jumping the gun'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    510.110 Sexual abuse in the first degree.
    (1) A person is guilty of sexual abuse in the first degree when:
    (a) He or she subjects another person to sexual contact by forcible compulsion; or
    (b) He or she subjects another person to sexual contact who is incapable of consent because he or she:
    1. Is physically helpless;
    2. Is less than twelve (12) years old; or
    3. Is mentally incapacitated; or

    I read the pdf but it ends by saying that it is a 'Class D felony' and after googling that it seems to demand 3/5 - ~10 years in gaol, depending on which site you read (presume it varies by state).

    That is hardly a slap on the wrist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 169 ✭✭childsplay


    Ikky Poo2, are you trying to point out that being drunk is something that people can choose to become or not? If I choose to get drunk then THAT'S my own business and if I do something dumb as a result, I am ultimately responsible for my own actions. However, being drunk shouldn't make me a target or excuse others from causing me harm.
    That's what I am getting from your posts anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    humbert wrote: »
    That seems to be a mandatory prison sentence?


    From what I gather it's a class D felony, hence the punishment would be:


    Class D Felony Sentences

    The sentence for Class D felony offenses is determined by the court but will not less than two years or be more than 7 years. The minimum and maximum sentence for felony offenses can be enhanced for any crime of a violent nature or one with aggravated circumstances, and reduced for mitigating circumstances. When determining a sentence the court takes into account the nature of the crime and the character and history of the offender. Juvenile offenders face up to four years imprisonment for Class D felonies


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭Killer Wench


    And if the judge accepts the plea agreement, this is what they will have to deal with:

    http://www.kentuckystatepolice.org/sor.htm


    http://kspsor.state.ky.us/


    Go ahead and plug in a city on the search.


  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Voyeurism as part of the main charge? Really doesn't sound like she was raped. Stupid drunk photos with hands on tits or something which they put online.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Giselle


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    It is. I asked a very simple question, not specific to this case: should someone who blacks out drunk not have to bear the consequences?.

    The consequences of what?

    Does a person who's blacked out drunk not have a right NOT to be assaulted?

    Or does the fact that they're drunk mean there's some sort of contributory negligence on their part? How does being drunk make you responsible for the actions of your assailants?

    I don't see how being victimised while incapacitated makes you responsible for anything.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    Voyeurism as part of the main charge? Really doesn't sound like she was raped. Stupid drunk photos with hands on tits or something which they put online.
    They don't just pick the best one and ignore the rest.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    And if the judge accepts the plea agreement, this is what they will have to deal with:

    http://www.kentuckystatepolice.org/sor.htm


    http://kspsor.state.ky.us/


    Go ahead and plug in a city on the search.
    Neither will load for me. Perhaps restricted to the US? (I do have shit internet though)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭Killer Wench


    Voyeurism as part of the main charge? Really doesn't sound like she was raped. Stupid drunk photos with hands on tits or something which they put online.

    She may have been raped. This is a plea agreement between the prosecutor and the defendants. It is a negotiation. Sometimes guilty people can negotiate for a lesser charge, and other times non-guilty people agree to charges because they have the impression it would be a better deal than going to trial and facing the maximum.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 169 ✭✭childsplay


    Voyeurism as part of the main charge? Really doesn't sound like she was raped. Stupid drunk photos with hands on tits or something which they put online.

    What's stupid about that? Nobody has a right to put their hands on another person without permission. That's what made me so mad earlier. This idea that it's okay to touch another person sexually and that's okay. IT'S SO NOT OKAY. That and the fact that men SEEM to be excused for this type of behaviour while girls are labelled with not so nice names forever afterwards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭Killer Wench


    humbert wrote: »
    Neither will load for me. Perhaps restricted to the US? (I do have shit internet though)

    It may be. There is also a national sex offender registry. Google and see if that can be accessed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    humbert wrote: »
    Neither will load for me. Perhaps restricted to the US? (I do have shit internet though)

    They won't open for me either:mad:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,670 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    childsplay wrote: »
    Ikky Poo2, are you trying to point out that being drunk is something that people can choose to become or not? If I choose to get drunk then THAT'S my own business and if I do something dumb as a result, I am ultimately responsible for my own actions. However, being drunk shouldn't make me a target or excuse others from causing me harm.
    That's what I am getting from your posts anyway.

    I did also mention blacking out. Getting drunk is one thing as long as you remain repsonsible and to self-aware. No, being drunk shouldn't make you a target, but it sometimes does. That's my point. And if being a target is a possibility, why would you continue to get drunk?
    Giselle wrote: »
    The consequences of what?

    Does a person who's blacked out drunk not have a right NOT to be assaulted?

    Or does the fact that they're drunk mean there's some sort of contributory negligence on their part? How does being drunk make you responsible for the actions of your assailants?

    I don't see how being victimised while incapacitated makes you responsible for anything.

    Jesus Christ, when the **** did I say any of this? FOR THE LAST TIME - BRING DRUNK DOES NOT MAKE YOU THE GUILTY PARTY! I NEVER SAID IT DID. NOR DOES IT ABSOLVE YOU OF ALL RESPONSBIILTY FOR WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.

    You can be the victim and still be partly responsible. Actions have consequences. And, just to be clear, becaue you seem to like misreading things, this is NOT me givign to okay to rape. (Because someone is going to ask, "oh, so, Ikky Poo2, you're saign it's okay to rape people who have passed out at parties?" in a minute.)

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭PrincessLola


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

    Jesus Christ, when the **** did I say any of this? FOR THE LAST TIME - BRING DRUNK DOES NOT MAKE YOU THE GUILTY PARTY! I NEVER SAID IT DID. NOR DOES IT ABSOLVE YOU OF ALL RESPONSBIILTY!

    No. Just no.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,670 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    No. Just no.

    So you'r sayign beign drunk DOES make you the guilty party?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭Killer Wench


    Boombastic wrote: »
    They won't open for me either:mad:

    I'll explain what it is.

    You go to the search, plug in your city or county, and a list of registered sex offenders pop up. It will include their name and known aliases, their picture, their address, their date of birth, their height, their race, their registration status, their crime, and the age of their victims.

    Depending on the crime or jurisdiction, it could be a lifetime registration or a limited time on the registry. I think for their crime, they would face 20 years of being on the registry. And if you are on this list:

    "KRS 17.545 prohibits registered sex offenders from living near schools, daycare facilities and publicly owned playgrounds. These offenders are prohibited from living within 1,000 feet of a high school, middle school, elementary school, preschool, publicly owned playground, or licensed day care facility. The measurement is taken in a straight line from the nearest property line of the school to the nearest property line of the registrant's place of residence. This restriction does not apply to a youthful offender probated or paroled during his or her minority or while enrolled in an elementary or a secondary education program. However, once the youthful offender registrant attains the age of majority (18 years old) and is no longer a student in an elementary or secondary education program he or she is subject to the residence restriction at that point."

    So, when they reach their 30s, they could still be on this list. If they have children, they will not be able to live within 1,000 feet of a high school, middle school, etc.; is this still a slap on the wrist?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombi!


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    I NEVER SAID IT DID. NOR DOES IT ABSOLVE YOU OF ALL RESPONSBIILTY FOR WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.

    You can be the victim and still be partly responsible. Actions have consequences. And, just to be clear, becaue you seem to like misreading things, this is NOT me givign to okay to rape. (Because someone is going to ask, "oh, so, Ikky Poo2, you're saign it's okay to rape people who have passed out at parties?" in a minute.)

    Okay so how is being drunk and crashing a car become anywhere near "being drunk, passed out and having two people violate you"?


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