7 month old wont sleep

killiank

Hi, sorry for another baby wont sleep thread but hopefully someone may be able to help/advise us as we are finding it very tough. Our little boy is nearly 7 months old & can be the happiest smiliest baby you have ever seen. That is unless you try to put him to bed. Now he will normally go to sleep after 20 minutes or so of crying but the longest he sleeps is for 2.5 - 3 hours. Recently though he has been waking up crying many many times. One night this week he woke up 11 times (I think) from 7.30pm going to bed to 7am in the morning. The longest he has ever done is 5 hours which he did only once. A really good night for us to put him to bed at 7.30 with a wake up crying around 1, then again at 3 & then 5. Sometimes he will go back to sleep quite quickly but recently he could be awake for 30 - 45 mins before going back to sleep.
We moved him on to solids about a month & a half ago & were told this would make a big difference. Sometimes when he wakes he is hungry & we feed him but its not as if he will take anymore before he goes to bed.
He will only go to sleep if he is on his side (he turns himself in the grow bag) but when he turns back onto his back during the night I think this is what causes him to wake up.
If anyone has any idea we would greatly appreciate them. Is there such thing as a sleep doctor? Has anyone been? Or do we jsut have a baby that wont sleep & we just have to put up with it.
Thanks
Killian

pwurple

11 times is a lot alright. That's hard going.

I think we need more details to see if we can spot anything.
-What is he doing sleep-wise during the day? Does he nap at all? If so, for how long and how often?

-When he wakes up, what do you do to settle him to sleep again?

-When you say he goes to sleep after 20 mins of crying, what is his bedtime routine normally?

-Does he have any problems with his food, like tummy aches do you think?

killiank

Hi Pwurple & thanks for your response.

Normally he will get up at 7, nap for 45 mins in the morning at 9. 2 hours in the afternoon from 12 to 2. & 20 mins in the evening around 4.30. Goes to bed around 7. Sometimes when it's a bad night he will sleep longer in the morning.

When he wakes we will generally try rub his back, turn him on his side, give him the soother. Sometimes he is just too cranky & may need to be fed - last resort.

Bedtime routine is around 7 we will give him a bottle with 7/8 ozs. He will drink 4/5 downstairs then we change his nappy, bring him up to bedroom & try the last few ozs. Obviously we will try to get burps up & then we put him down to bed. Rarely will he just go to sleep then. He will cry & we will try to pacify him. Once the crying has stopped we leave him in the room on his own & hope he drops off.

I dont think he has any problems with his food in that he eats very well & the problems just start when we put him to bed.

Thanks again,

wmpdd3

How does he sleep when you put him down for naps? Do you just put him in his cot and he nods off? Does he cry for 20 mins this time too? If he sleeps no problem for this nap, then this is what you might have to copy for his night time naps.

Out of all the sleep books I read, they all seem to say, just get your baby sleeping whatever way possible first, then train them to sleep the way you want them to.

Some people would say cut out the 4:30 nap as its too close to bedtime, but mine slept better the more sleep they got during the day! Also 7 months is really early for only 2 naps per day. My girl used to sleep about every 3 hours, for an hour at that age.

pwurple

Hmm. 3 naps seem ok for that age anyway. Myabe the 2 hour nap is a bit long in the middle of the day if he is having trouble settling later. You could try to shorten that nap down to 1.5 hours mins, or even 1hr over time. and bring the 4:30 nap back to 4. He may not actually be tired enough at seven pm. If he isn't sleepy, does keeping him up 20 mins later make any difference?

I would adjust the routine at bedtime slightly. Try nappy change first, then full feed in a darkened room (in a chair by his cot is handy). Winding and cuddles until he is calm and very sleepy, then put him in the cot. The nappy change mid feed might be waking him up a bit.

about the very unsettled nights. Is he in teething pain? That can affect them more at night because they have nothing to distract them from it. Does calpol or baby neurofen make any difference if you have tried them?

Could be a growth spurt or some thirst as well if feeding settles him. Smetimes they just want more food for a few days, and then settle back a bit.

killiank

wmpdd3 wrote: »

How does he sleep when you put him down for naps? Do you just put him in his cot and he nods off? Does he cry for 20 mins this time too? If he sleeps no problem for this nap, then this is what you might have to copy for his night time naps.

Out of all the sleep books I read, they all seem to say, just get your baby sleeping whatever way possible first, then train them to sleep the way you want them to.

Some people would say cut out the 4:30 nap as its too close to bedtime, but mine slept better the more sleep they got during the day! Also 7 months is really early for only 2 naps per day. My girl used to sleep about every 3 hours, for an hour at that age.

Hi Wmpdd.
Thanks for your reply. Generally he will be hard to get down for his naps during the day also. I guess the biggest problem is that he wakes up so frequently so if he is having a 2 hour nap its not a major problem if he wakes after an hour & a half. But during the night that is a problem. Last night he woke on the hour every hour from about 2am.
In relation to the late nap at 4.30 if he doesn't get that he gets very cranky & is even harder to get to sleep initially.

killiank

pwurple wrote: »

Hmm. 3 naps seem ok for that age anyway. Myabe the 2 hour nap is a bit long in the middle of the day if he is having trouble settling later. You could try to shorten that nap down to 1.5 hours mins, or even 1hr over time. and bring the 4:30 nap back to 4. He may not actually be tired enough at seven pm. If he isn't sleepy, does keeping him up 20 mins later make any difference?

I would adjust the routine at bedtime slightly. Try nappy change first, then full feed in a darkened room (in a chair by his cot is handy). Winding and cuddles until he is calm and very sleepy, then put him in the cot. The nappy change mid feed might be waking him up a bit.

about the very unsettled nights. Is he in teething pain? That can affect them more at night because they have nothing to distract them from it. Does calpol or baby neurofen make any difference if you have tried them?

Could be a growth spurt or some thirst as well if feeding settles him. Smetimes they just want more food for a few days, and then settle back a bit.

Hi Pwurple
I guess we can try to reduce the 2 hour nap but he tends to be very cranky if he doesnt get it. Also by 7/7.30 in the evening (to us anyway) he seems like he is ready to sleep & is rubbing his eyes etc but once he hits the cot thats when the fun starts. I dont know if he is having teething pain. we have thought for a long time now that he is teething but as yet no sign of any teeth. We've tried both calpol & nurofen & even lately a suppository. Offhand one works better than the other (between calpol & nurofen) but I cant remember which one. The suppository is the best but we are conscious of giving him too much stuff that he comes to expect it. Doctor has checked him & says he will grow out of it......

Thank you for your advice. We will try the whole feed in the room & see if it makes a difference.

littlemissfixit

I wouldn't cut the napping either, my one always slept better when she had good sleep during the day. She only started sleeping through the night at about 6 months (last dream feed BF between 10-11, up around 7). Its also soon after that I noticed that she was a lot more aware of what was going on, and obviously could play on it to get what she wanted, so its also then I started to let her settle herself, because I knew she knew I was there for her so no insecurity, but that she needed to get to sleep.
If you know there is nothing wrong healthwise, teeth, tommy, etc. You can try, I think consitancy is the key, no picking up, no interaction, just soothing presence of mum or dad. I would stay by the cot, never picking her up and just rubbing her down, then moved outside the room, going back in at regularly longer intervals (5min, then 10, etc.). It took very long at the start and its nothing short of heartbreaking, but most important you know they know you are there, and falling asleep is a skill they have to learn and the more fuss made around them, the more fuss they will need to get there.
If you know she can last the night without feeding, then there is no reason for feeding her. If she expects a feed, or to be picked up, or whatever else it is she gets in the end, she will probably cry until she gets it.
Cant remember if it took a week or 2 weeks, but she has slept sound 7 to 7 and now 7h30 to 8 ever since.

Best of luck!

Ellsbells

Does he have silent reflux? This causes them to wake frequently.

Moonbeam

He might be hungry or uncomfortable.
Have you tried putting a pillow under the top of his mattress sothat he is slightly elevated?
Have you tried a warm bath before bed?
Have you tried having naps and bed time in 2 different places? Eg pram and bed?

killiank

Ellsbells wrote: »

Does he have silent reflux? This causes them to wake frequently.

Hi Ellsbells,
We were at the doctors recently & my wife asked him if it was possible that he had silent reflux but the doctor didnt seem to think so. He said that even if he did it would be something he would just grow out of. I think we may need to look at it again.

killiank

Moonbeam wrote: »

He might be hungry or uncomfortable.
Have you tried putting a pillow under the top of his mattress sothat he is slightly elevated?
Have you tried a warm bath before bed?
Have you tried having naps and bed time in 2 different places? Eg pram and bed?

HI Moonbeam & thanks for your reply.
In terms of being hungry I dont think that is the case. He could drink a full bottle & wake every hour after it just as likely if he didnt have any food.
Previously we used to have the pillow under the mattress but we dont anymore - im not sure why.
He would probably have a bath every second nigh before we start the final feed.
No we have not tried having naps & bed time in different places. We will see if it makes a difference.

wmpdd3

You could try a sachet of galvascon in his last bottle one night, if that makes a difference, then you know he's got a sore tummy.

implausible

Two suggestions: a dodie and a sleep positioner.

He may be waking for comfort, not food and the dodie might give him this. You mention that he wakes when he goes over onto his back. Could you put something in the cot that would keep him in the side position?

wmpdd3

I used to have a rolled up cellular blanket st my daughters back. I was told by phn that was ok but you have to make your own mind.

red fraggle

we went through a month or more of E waking every night for 2 hours! i would feed her, didnt work, rock her didnt work. so we cut out fruit as the last meal and it worked wonders. it was giving her pains at night the poor thing. now at nearly 7 months we are reintroducing it slowly starting with pears, melon etc. also i gave her chamomile tea about an hour or half an hour before bed. it is a calming and relaxing tea so it helped settle her and also settled her tummy.

this was what our problem was and how we fixed it. ya never know! also we moved her to her own room and we dont wake each other up and she sleeps all night!:D

goodluck with it;)

dublinlady

I don't have much in line of advise as been going they this with my 24 week old since 15 weeks. But the soother thing is tricky - last night she woke every hr from 12am looking to have it put back in... She would go straight back asleep then. I was so tired that at 3 , I just brought her in to my bed until 7.30 feed where I can just pop it in practically in my sleep..... I hate this! I'm wondering if there's a substitute to a soother which requires no skill to ye and is easy for her to find during night. She def seems to stir and need something to soothe herself with - I think it's in relation to rolling also! The only times she wakes fully are when she rolls into her tummy and can't get back - but we just put a couple of Muslims under one side of he mattress d d that seemed to stop her doing that ( she always just rolls to the left!!!!!) The soother thing is truly driving me demented... Contemplating taking ur off her for naps altogether but don't want her not to have a substitute as sge'll be upset.. have held a little toy blanky thing with her for last few times putting her down but she shows no interest and cries until sge gets her soother!
Anyway just saying be careful introducing a soother... Can lead to just as much waking!!!

implausible

dublinlady wrote: »

we just put a couple of Muslims under one side of he mattress d d that seemed to stop her doing that

That's a bit drastic! Do they not mind???:D:D:D

dublinlady

implausible wrote: »

dublinlady wrote: »

we just put a couple of Muslims under one side of he mattress d d that seemed to stop her doing that

That's a bit drastic! Do they not mind???:D:D:D

Haha! Bloody predictive text on phone!!!!!! Mind you if any couple of ppl regardless or religion race or age want to come to tilt the mattress for herself so i can get a giod nite sleep I'd really appreciate it...

killiank

Thanks everyone for the advise. Just a quick update - we went to the doctor on Friday & he pretty much said that all babies wake up during the night but that some go back to sleep without making a fuss & others expect to be attended to each time they wake.

So he told us we need to work on managing his expectations so that he doesnt think that when he cries we will come running - which was the case.
Also told us to rule out feeding him during the night.

So friday night was the first night that we started the new routine. When he wakes we simply walk to the door so that he knows we are there but we dont pick him up or talk to him. It took about 45 mins of crying before he eventually went to sleep but when he did he slept for longer than normal. Very hard to ignore the crying but we think we are making progress anyway.

wmpdd3

I'm so glad it s working for you, but I have to say you're a better woman than me. I couldn't do that.

I remember trying to do it with my 10 month old brother.

It is great though when you have a night time process that works. When baby knows what's happening and when and knows, its night time, I need to stay asleep. Its so funny seeing 10 month olds realise its morning time when they wake up!

Makes things so much easier when you have 2 babies!!

killiank

wmpdd3 wrote: »

I'm so glad it s working for you, but I have to say you're a better woman than me. I couldn't do that.

!

I doubt it. I'm the Dad

dublinlady

Killiank
Have acread of my soother thread - similar story with similar outcome!!
http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056713671?page=2#post_79999909

liliq

killiank wrote: »

So he told us we need to work on managing his expectations so that he doesnt think that when he cries we will come running - which was the case.
Also told us to rule out feeding him during the night.

So friday night was the first night that we started the new routine. When he wakes we simply walk to the door so that he knows we are there but we dont pick him up or talk to him. It took about 45 mins of crying before he eventually went to sleep but when he did he slept for longer than normal. Very hard to ignore the crying but we think we are making progress anyway.

I'll probably be shot for this going against "medical advice", and I don't mean it as a personal attack or anything like, but your son is 7 months old. He doesn't have expectations- he has needs that are ingrained biologically.
As an adult- you have expectations on how you think he should sleep, because we're under the impression that a "good" baby sleeps 12 hours straight a night from 6 months onwards, and any time after that they're "manipulating" you. BS.

There's a lot of information out there on damage that can be caused by leaving a child to cry- which can happen regardless of whether they know you're there or not. Might be worth reading and making sure you're happy with those potential risks.

littlemissfixit

I am not a fan of the cry it out method as such, but at same time learning how to fall asleep is an important skill for children and you are the teacher, so the same way as if you let them cry desperately until they are exhausted and fall asleep doesnt sound to me like a very appropriate lesson, neither is rocking them to sleep (or whatever else) indefinately.
I think every parent get to know their child and will instinctively know how to teach them this skill, maybe with a few trial/errors along the way, but will get there in the end.
I noticed a change in my daughter, i think it was around the 6 month mark, where she was very aware of what was going on, and became very bad at bedtime, so I knew she didnt need to be picked up, or fed, she wasnt ill, so I gave her some reassurance but not the attention she was trying to get and it took only a couple of days before bedtime was a kiss and cuddle and sleep until feed time.
My son is 2 months, and the poor thing needs to cry for 5 min to fall asleep during the day, every time. Makes no difference if he is picked up, rocked, etc. He will still cry is 5 min and then be out for 45 min. At night he only wakes for feeds, so I follow his cues not the clock, he can sometimes do 6hrs, cometimes only 3 at most...I dont expect him at that age to have the exact same appetite and sleepiness every night.

They are all different and one day will be different from the next!

killiank

liliq wrote: »

I'll probably be shot for this going against "medical advice", and I don't mean it as a personal attack or anything like, but your son is 7 months old. He doesn't have expectations- he has needs that are ingrained biologically.
As an adult- you have expectations on how you think he should sleep, because we're under the impression that a "good" baby sleeps 12 hours straight a night from 6 months onwards, and any time after that they're "manipulating" you. BS.

There's a lot of information out there on damage that can be caused by leaving a child to cry- which can happen regardless of whether they know you're there or not. Might be worth reading and making sure you're happy with those potential risks.

Hi Liliq, Thanks for your reply. We were very against the idea of going this route (& I know my wife isnt 100% in favour either) but when you havent slept for more than 3 hours in 7 months & the doctor is telling you to do this then you will consider it. I've read a few articles with quick google searches there that stress risks & thanks for highlighting this. I dont expect him to sleep for 12 hours but more than 2 would be nice. This is not something that we will persist with for more than a few more days.

killiank

dublinlady wrote: »

Killiank
Have acread of my soother thread - similar story with similar outcome!!
http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056713671?page=2#post_79999909

Thanks I had a read of it. We did try this method from the baby whisperer but perhaps we didnt see it through as it seemed to backfire. I think it was the same book now.

liliq

killiank wrote: »

Hi Liliq, Thanks for your reply. We were very against the idea of going this route (& I know my wife isnt 100% in favour either) but when you havent slept for more than 3 hours in 7 months & the doctor is telling you to do this then you will consider it. I've read a few articles with quick google searches there that stress risks & thanks for highlighting this. I dont expect him to sleep for 12 hours but more than 2 would be nice. This is not something that we will persist with for more than a few more days.

Would you consider cosleeping? I know a lot of people don't like the idea, but I feel your pain. My 10.5 month old still wakes around 2 hourly (I've stopped looking at the clock), but when I'm already right beside him he just snuggles in and goes back to sleep so it's fairly painless.
I'm not 100% but from what I gather this is safest if your wife is breastfeeding.
A lot of people have said to me that I'm spoiling him and I'll never get him out of our bed... :rolleyes: ... but he's already showing signs of independance, so I don't think it will be too much of a problem.

I've also heard good things about Elizabeth Pantleys No Cry Sleep Solution. As far as I know it's worded for breastfeeders, but is easily translate.

Hope you get some decent zzzz's soon.

Redpunto

Hiya

Sorry have no remedy for you but youre not alone - my 14 month old still wont sleep - at the moment hes teething so past week its nearly been every hour and bfore that I was lucky to get 3 hrs sleep. i havent slept more than 3 hours in a row I think since hes been born!!

If its any consolation - you'll have the opposite problem when babes is a teenager

How Strange

killiank wrote: »

So he told us we need to work on managing his expectations so that he doesnt think that when he cries we will come running - which was the case. .

This makes me feel so sad and angry that a doctor could say this about a 7 month old baby.
Probably the only expectations your son has right now are that his mammy and daddy will keep him safe, will always be there for him and they will feed him when he he's hungry.

I'm not denying that you and your wife are exhausted and desperate, lack of sleep is a form of torture, but this is appalling, out dated, dangerous advice.

Hannibal Smith

*walks in with Target on her head*

Fan of the crying it out method here *waves* and it worked wonders for us. I now have 2 kids who go asleep anywhere at 7pm.

All babies are different and some babies fight sleep every step of the way. My first it didn't really involve crying it out because he didn't fight sleep so much. But the second guy oh my god! From the day he was born he has fought sleep, no matter how exhausted he is.

No matter if you held him, fed him, soothed him, wind him down...absolutely nothing worked. So I had to really kick in the cry it out method. I don't mean let him get hysterical, would go in and resettle before it got to that stage. But at the end of the day I had another kid to look after so I had to do something. I wanted my kids to be able to get them to sleep by themselves and get there as soon as possible.

Of course babies have expectations at 7months. You try get them in a buggy or car seat when they don't want to, they will fight you every step of the way...try feeding them something they don't like, they'll let you know. At 7 months my fella got into a fight with his one year old cousin over a car, and don't even get me started on how he's wound up his older brother.

With some babies it has nothing to do with wanting you, but everything to do with not wanting to go to sleep. Like I said you could cuddle my fella all night and he still wouldn't go asleep, and he has me right there! As I said my little one was terrible at naps and night time...but now is a dream.

it sounds like you've tried everything op, so why not give it a go. I'm not a fan of co-sleeping, what happens when you move them to their own bed and they're running around at night thinking your bed is fair game! Lol