Is moving to London or the UK really emigrating?

SharpshooterTom

getz wrote: »

funny enough when i am in ireland i find it very much like england,people are the same/language/pubs/fish and chips/same shops /street names and towns, mind you i live in the northwest of england

You could say that about other countries in Europe tbh, I just see Ireland and Britain as two seperate european nations like any other.

Kitty-kitty

Are you paying PAYE to the Irish government in your job? No? Then you're emigrating.

Procrastastudy

Kitty-kitty wrote: »

Are you paying PAYE to the Irish government in your job? No? Then you're emigrating.

Normally I'd agree but constitutionally speaking moving to the North isn't emigrating from the Irish standpoint.

Solair

Solair wrote: »

within the European Union, it's basically migration rather than emigration.
We're supposedly one big happy dysfunctional family of states.

Migration within the EU is supported, you've rights to do it, health, welfare and educational supports etc etc. The idea is that labour is mobile within the group of states. So in theory, if one is having a disastrous few years people can go where the jobs are.

That's what happens in the US between states too.

The UK is our closest neighbour and the ties are even tighter than the EU with much more rights for people moving between the two states.

It's reallymigration. Emigration to me is more dramatic andpermanent.

Life's short, Ireland is tiny and Europe is vast and on our doorstep and it's open to us.

I see absolutely nothing strange about taking whatever opportunities it throws your way!

You'd think all this, but Spain is making it incredibly difficult for other EU citizens to move there. It's normal to have to register as a resident in any EU country after 90 days, but to register in Spain, you now have to prove your monthly income, show employment contracts and take out health insurance. There isn't any health or welfare support for residents (obviously tourists are covered by the EHIC). I think they have a bloody nerve, considering how many Spaniards come to live here without doing any of that. I don't mind not being entitled to the dole over there, I wouldn't want to take it anyway, but I thought the entire point of the EU was being entitled to live where you wanted as an EU citizen. If I'm not making 'enough' (in their eyes) within 90 says, I have to go home. Irish people who come to the UK don't have any of this hassle, so there is quite a big difference in that way.

A Dub in Glasgo

Kallie Nutritious Lumberyard wrote: »

Irish people who come to the UK don't have any of this hassle, so there is quite a big difference in that way.

The reason for that is the Common Travel Area

YouTookMyName

Yep it is because the food in the UK is shíte and they all talk funny.

But i can get home for less than €60 return thanks to ryanair so it's not too bad.

Solair

You'd think all this, but Spain is making it incredibly difficult for other EU citizens to move there. It's normal to have to register as a resident in any EU country after 90 days, but to register in Spain, you now have to prove your monthly income, show employment contracts and take out health insurance. There isn't any health or welfare support for residents (obviously tourists are covered by the EHIC). I think they have a bloody nerve, considering how many Spaniards come to live here without doing any of that. I don't mind not being entitled to the dole over there, I wouldn't want to take it anyway, but I thought the entire point of the EU was being entitled to live where you wanted as an EU citizen. If I'm not making 'enough' (in their eyes) within 90 says, I have to go home. Irish people who come to the UK don't have any of this hassle, so there is quite a big difference in that way.

You don't anymore.
I registered there, it's an absolute pain in the rear end and the bureaucracy seems to be a throw back to the Franco era, but all that was needed was a passport and a Spanish address.

Their old scheme was deemed totally illegal by the EU.

They still have a ridiculous situation where you're issued with an ID number on a certificate with what translates as your foreigner ID number which in theory you should carry at all times.

Their old ID card scheme for non Spanish people was thrown out by the EU a few years ago as a breech of the freedom of movement rights.

Spain can be very odd about that kind of stuff. In a lot of ways it never really got over being a police state. It's still painfully bureaucratic.

being self employed in Spain was a total joke though. Monthly huge fees levied by the social insurance scheme regardless of your income and almost no social security provided in return. It's no wonder their unemployment rate is sky high. I've never encountered a taxation and bureaucratic system that was so anti enterprise.
They practically treat entrepreneurs like some kind of shady characters that need to be knocked into line for daring to do something different.

They also tie small startup businesses in more red tape than I've ever seen anywhere else. Endless audits, inspections etc etc

I love the Spanish people and lifestyles but, their government needs a huge wake up call. It's strangling its own economy in many respects. Maybe they need a good dose of the IMF.

While Ireland is far from perfect, dealing with state services here is a breath of fresh air in comparison. There's a sense that they usually want to help.

I also saw first hand that Spain had a huge black economy. The bureaucracy just picks off the low hanging fruit.

Most people's incomes didn't seem to match their lifestyles and almost everyone seemed to get a large % of their pay in cash.

I think we'll see really interesting stuff coming out of Spain if the troika does go in! It's no where near as well run as it likes to think it is.

fasttalkerchat

Kallie Nutritious Lumberyard wrote: »

You'd think all this, but Spain is making it incredibly difficult for other EU citizens to move there. It's normal to have to register as a resident in any EU country after 90 days, but to register in Spain, you now have to prove your monthly income, show employment contracts and take out health insurance. There isn't any health or welfare support for residents (obviously tourists are covered by the EHIC). I think they have a bloody nerve, considering how many Spaniards come to live here without doing any of that. I don't mind not being entitled to the dole over there, I wouldn't want to take it anyway, but I thought the entire point of the EU was being entitled to live where you wanted as an EU citizen. If I'm not making 'enough' (in their eyes) within 90 says, I have to go home. Irish people who come to the UK don't have any of this hassle, so there is quite a big difference in that way.

So just don't register

In Italy you have to pay a few hundred euro to register so no one does it and their government gets no tax money. Stupid system

golden lane

the language dsifference between england and ireland......makes it a foreign country....

robp

Kallie Nutritious Lumberyard wrote: »

You'd think all this, but Spain is making it incredibly difficult for other EU citizens to move there. It's normal to have to register as a resident in any EU country after 90 days, but to register in Spain, you now have to prove your monthly income, show employment contracts and take out health insurance. There isn't any health or welfare support for residents (obviously tourists are covered by the EHIC). I think they have a bloody nerve, considering how many Spaniards come to live here without doing any of that. I don't mind not being entitled to the dole over there, I wouldn't want to take it anyway, but I thought the entire point of the EU was being entitled to live where you wanted as an EU citizen. If I'm not making 'enough' (in their eyes) within 90 says, I have to go home. Irish people who come to the UK don't have any of this hassle, so there is quite a big difference in that way.

Britain has its own differences to Ireland. For instance the postgraduate funding system is set up to support UK residents only. Alot of other EU countries don't to this so immediately you have a barrier which discourages migration. Ireland doesn't do this, Germany doesn't etc. Irish people are too hung up on migrating to English speaking countries.

Eve_Dublin

Kallie Nutritious Lumberyard wrote: »

You'd think all this, but Spain is making it incredibly difficult for other EU citizens to move there. It's normal to have to register as a resident in any EU country after 90 days, but to register in Spain, you now have to prove your monthly income, show employment contracts and take out health insurance. There isn't any health or welfare support for residents (obviously tourists are covered by the EHIC). I think they have a bloody nerve, considering how many Spaniards come to live here without doing any of that. I don't mind not being entitled to the dole over there, I wouldn't want to take it anyway, but I thought the entire point of the EU was being entitled to live where you wanted as an EU citizen. If I'm not making 'enough' (in their eyes) within 90 says, I have to go home. Irish people who come to the UK don't have any of this hassle, so there is quite a big difference in that way.

I didn't have to do this here and neither did any of my other EU friends. I had to show proof of address to register (empadronarse). I needed my passport for Social Security number and the Social Security number plus ID and a Spanish address for my NIE number. I definitely didn't need private health insurance. I got my medical card last week and had to show my NIE, SS and passport for that but their were no problems. Perhaps they're more strict where you live?

Gott

n900guy wrote: »

That's not really emigrating then IMO. If that was the case, a few hundred thousand of the people living around Benelux are emigrating every day and then immigrating back.

Emigration in my opinion is when you are definitely not returning. What about a businessman working in Dubai for a few years? Emigrant? 6 months work experience in New York = emigrant?

Full of drama TBH. That Generation Emigration piece in the IT is painful to read. Why is it so important that people have that label when at the same time people from loads of countries move around all the time.

An Australian in London for 12 months or 2-3 years? An emigrant?

So why from Ireland?

The Old Media love easy tags that they can wheel out when they need convenient descriptions.

We're also, to my eternal chagrin, the 'Facebook Generation.'

Eve_Dublin

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

So just don't register

In Italy you have to pay a few hundred euro to register so no one does it and their government gets no tax money. Stupid system

From what I've heard, Italy sounds like a nightmare to move to. You're entitled to nothing, not even basic public healthcare even as an EU citizen.

fasttalkerchat

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

So just don't register

In Italy you have to pay a few hundred euro to register so no one does it and their government gets no tax money. Stupid system

You have to register. With the new system, your NIE cert expires after 3 months, so you'd be living/working illegally and would have to pay fines if caught.

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I didn't have to do this here and neither did any of my other EU friends. I had to show proof of address to register (empadronarse). I needed my passport for Social Security number and the Social Security number plus ID and a Spanish address for my NIE number. I definitely didn't need private health insurance. I got my medical card last week and had to show my NIE, SS and passport for that but their were no problems. Perhaps they're more strict where you live?

This is a new requirement, it was only brought in in April. Really annoying that I didn't manage to get over there before they brought it in. Now, you need to show your employment contract, proof of earnings and healthcare provisions. If they decide you don't meet the requirements, you have to leave. Ridiculous, IMO. It almost put me off going over altogether and I'm still in two minds whether it's worth staying longer than 3 months and having to register. It totally goes against the whole idea of the EU. If I'm not involved in criminal activities or a burden on the state, it is none of their god damn business how much I'm earning and how I'm supporting myself.

IrishAm

Kallie Nutritious Lumberyard wrote: »

You'd think all this, but Spain is making it incredibly difficult for other EU citizens to move there. It's normal to have to register as a resident in any EU country after 90 days, but to register in Spain, you now have to prove your monthly income, show employment contracts and take out health insurance. There isn't any health or welfare support for residents (obviously tourists are covered by the EHIC). I think they have a bloody nerve, considering how many Spaniards come to live here without doing any of that. I don't mind not being entitled to the dole over there, I wouldn't want to take it anyway, but I thought the entire point of the EU was being entitled to live where you wanted as an EU citizen. If I'm not making 'enough' (in their eyes) within 90 says, I have to go home. Irish people who come to the UK don't have any of this hassle, so there is quite a big difference in that way.

Its not just Spain. The Germans, Poles and a few other do it too.

Its acting the bollix and goes against the whole ethos of the EU. Someone will eventually take them to court over it.

IrishAm

IrishAm wrote: »

Its not just Spain. The Germans, Poles and a few other do it too.

Its acting the bollix and goes against the whole ethos of the EU. Someone will eventually take them to court over it.

I thought it was illegal as well but there's apparently some poxy loophole in the EU legislation which allows it to happen. I think that there should be a reciprocal agreement at the very least. Spaniards who come here should be subject to the same treatment we get there. It's incredibly unfair.

IrishAm

Kallie Nutritious Lumberyard wrote: »

I thought it was illegal as well but there's apparently some poxy loophole in the EU legislation which allows it to happen. I think that there should be a reciprocal agreement at the very least. Spaniards who come here should be subject to the same treatment we get there. It's incredibly unfair.

They are biting off their nose to spite their face. Think of all the EU students who flock to Spain every summer to spend a month or two working in bars, clubs and restaurants. If they made it easy for them to pick up a PPS numbers or the Spanish equivalent, they could get these people into the tax net. As it is, its difficult to obtain, especially if you are only there for a few months, so the employer pays them cash in hand instead.

Their loss.

And its not really a loophole;

All Union citizens have the right to enter another Member State by virtue of having an identity card or valid passport. Under no circumstances can an entry or exit visa be required. Where the citizens concerned do not have travel documents, the host Member State must afford them every reasonable means in obtaining the requisite documents or having them sent.

After 90 days;

either be engaged in economic activity (on an employed or self-employed basis);
or have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay. The Member States may not specify a minimum amount which they deem sufficient, but they must take account of personal circumstances;
or be following vocational training as a student and have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay;
or be a family member of a Union citizen who falls into one of the above categories.

We could do it too, if we so wished. Not the best idea in the world to be p*ssing off fellow EU citizens when our own are exercising their treaty rights regarding freedom of movement and when we are relying on bailouts. But we could do it.

SocSocPol

IrishAm wrote: »

They are biting off their nose to spite their face. Think of all the EU students who flock to Spain every summer to spend a month or two working in bars, clubs and restaurants. If they made it easy for them to pick up a PPS numbers or the Spanish equivalent, they could get these people into the tax net. As it is, its difficult to obtain, especially if you are only there for a few months, so the employer pays them cash in hand instead.

Their loss.

And its not really a loophole;



After 90 days;




We could do it too, if we so wished. Not the best idea in the world to be p*ssing off fellow EU citizens when our own are exercising their treaty rights regarding freedom of movement and when we are relying on bailouts. But we could do it.

You are right, unusual for us to be in agreement, but I am the first to admit when even an adversery is correct.

IrishAm

IrishAm wrote: »

They are biting off their nose to spite their face. Think of all the EU students who flock to Spain every summer to spend a month or two working in bars, clubs and restaurants. If they made it easy for them to pick up a PPS numbers or the Spanish equivalent, they could get these people into the tax net. As it is, its difficult to obtain, especially if you are only there for a few months, so the employer pays them cash in hand instead.

Their loss.

And its not really a loophole;



After 90 days;




We could do it too, if we so wished. Not the best idea in the world to be p*ssing off fellow EU citizens when our own are exercising their treaty rights regarding freedom of movement and when we are relying on bailouts. But we could do it.

Oh, I know everyone could do it. But really, no-one should be. It's just so frustrating that I want to go to Spain, teach people English, pay my taxes and contribute to the economy while taking NOTHING from them and they're making it so difficult. They are indeed cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Eve_Dublin

Kallie Nutritious Lumberyard wrote: »

You have to register. With the new system, your NIE cert expires after 3 months, so you'd be living/working illegally and would have to pay fines if caught.



This is a new requirement, it was only brought in in April. Really annoying that I didn't manage to get over there before they brought it in. Now, you need to show your employment contract, proof of earnings and healthcare provisions. If they decide you don't meet the requirements, you have to leave. Ridiculous, IMO. It almost put me off going over altogether and I'm still in two minds whether it's worth staying longer than 3 months and having to register. It totally goes against the whole idea of the EU. If I'm not involved in criminal activities or a burden on the state, it is none of their god damn business how much I'm earning and how I'm supporting myself.

Really????? I didn't know that. Yeah, I did all that business about 2 and a half years ago. Twas even a bit of a nightmare then as I didn't know what the fook I was doing.

And whenever I went for an interview, they asked me did I have all my papers in order....but if you can't get a job, how can you get your papers? Surely if I'm trying to get all the paper needed, I'll be paying taxes eventually, otherwise I'd work in the black market like the American teachers here. Makes zero sense. So much doesn't make any sense here...the bureaucracy is just ridiculous. Mind-boggling.

What annoys me is the fact that us European "Guiris" generally do pay our taxes into the system, which can't be said for many Spanish people. As an English teacher, I'm doing a job that the natives can't (at least at an advanced level). They're shooting themselves in the foot not letting us in. And as you said, the Spanish don't have to do the same here.

Actually I remember the first time I tried to register...had all my forms and the civil servant refused me as she said I forged my housemate's signatures. Ehhh...why would I do that? I'm an EU citizen and entitled to be here. I threw a hissy fit and told her I doubt the Spanish in my country are getting the same treatment.

That's the new government in action. Bunch of ****.

Eve_Dublin

Kallie Nutritious Lumberyard wrote: »

Oh, I know everyone could do it. But really, no-one should be. It's just so frustrating that I want to go to Spain, teach people English, pay my taxes and contribute to the economy while taking NOTHING from them and they're making it so difficult. They are indeed cutting off their nose to spite their face.

In fairness, I do avail of the healthcare here and I'm claiming the dole for a month as I've no classes. The woman said I was entitled to 8 months of dole but I'd rather work. I believe most of us would feel that way.

IrishAm

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

In fairness, I do avail of the healthcare here and I'm claiming the dole for a month as I've no classes. The woman said I was entitled to 8 months of dole but I'd rather work. I believe most of us would feel that way.

How long were you working there and why only 8 months dole?

Its a percentage of your previous income over there, isn't it?

Eve_Dublin

IrishAm wrote: »

How long were you working there and why only 8 months dole?

Its a percentage of your previous income over there, isn't it?

I've been working and paying taxes since November 2009. You get a percentage of what your income is, 80% I think, and you accumulate more months depending on how long you work. I don't really understand the system....it's very confusing. I don't work a full year here. Only about 8 months out of the year, maybe less, because of holidays.

IrishAm

Kallie Nutritious Lumberyard wrote: »

Oh, I know everyone could do it. But really, no-one should be. It's just so frustrating that I want to go to Spain, teach people English, pay my taxes and contribute to the economy while taking NOTHING from them and they're making it so difficult. They are indeed cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Send an email to the relevant Spanish authorities explaining your situation while outlining your complaints and cc your local Irish MEP.

Get someone who has some EU legal knowledge to help you with the email.

Solair

To get this thread back on track again.

Moving to the UK for an Irish citizen is extremely easy (as it is for a UK citizen moving to Ireland). You will be treated pretty much as a UK citizen when living there. You can vote in all elections and for almost everything you'll just be treated as a local.

It's beyond the normal intra-EU rights.

Eve_Dublin

I found getting my National Insurance so easy in the UK. The whole getting myself set up there was very easy and I'm sure speaking the lingo was a massive part of that. They make it very easy for you, or at least when I was there. We can vote there but I think that's about the only exception compared to other EU counties?

Eve_Dublin

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I found getting my National Insurance so easy in the UK. The whole getting myself set up there was very easy and I'm sure speaking the lingo was a massive part of that. They make it very easy for you, or at least when I was there. We can vote there but I think that's about the only exception compared to other EU counties?

I think the main one is that it just doesn't 'feel' as foreign. Not just because it's an English speaking country - the USA is also English speaking, yet to me it feels very foreign. The proximity of Ireland and the UK means that there's little to no culture shock, you can buy almost all the same products and most people will treat you like one of them. You can't say that for most other countries.

Is it emigrating if you go to the UK? Officially, yes, but my answer would be 'not really', not in terms of distance, culture shock etc. It's nothing compared to moving to the continent or further afield. I suppose it all comes down to what you're used to. If you've lived in the same area all your life, never left Ireland and see all your extended family regularly/live near them, then going to the UK would feel like emigrating. If you've lived in non-English speaking countries or somewhere like Australia, then it's just like going next door.

Cú Giobach

Kallie Nutritious Lumberyard wrote: »

I think the main one is that it just doesn't 'feel' as foreign. Not just because it's an English speaking country - the USA is also English speaking, yet to me it feels very foreign. The proximity of Ireland and the UK means that there's little to no culture shock, you can buy almost all the same products and most people will treat you like one of them. You can't say that for most other countries.

Is it emigrating if you go to the UK? Officially, yes, but my answer would be 'not really', not in terms of distance, culture shock etc. It's nothing compared to moving to the continent or further afield. I suppose it all comes down to what you're used to. If you've lived in the same area all your life, never left Ireland and see all your extended family regularly/live near them, then going to the UK would feel like emigrating. If you've lived in non-English speaking countries or somewhere like Australia, then it's just like going next door.

What about someone from Ireland who goes on a two week holiday to Australia every year for 20 years and then decides to move lock stock and barrel and emigrate there permanently, no culture shock, no getting used to anything new etc.....;)
Distance: Moving from Morocco to Spain?? They are closer together than Ireland and Britain.

Seanchai

LordSutch wrote: »

Is the UK so foreign to us?

Yes. Yes indeed.

'The sea oh the sea, is grá geal mo chroí, long may it reign between England and me. It's a sure guarantee that some hour we'll be free - ohhh thank God we're surrounded by waaater!"

Eve_Dublin

Don't you have family there though, Izzy Wizzy? I found it a fairly big culture shock when I moved there 8 years ago. I was living in the midlands of England in a massive Sikh community. My university was the most socially inclusive in the country and whites were the minority. It was also a poor city, the poverty I've never seen the likes of in Ireland and there was also massive problems with crime and prostitution in my estate. Not to say these problems don't exist in Dublin, they do of course but I've also lived in Coolock, a fairly rough area and I found this city much more "in your face". The accents, the attitude, the layout of the city, the buildings the beer they drank, the topic of conversation and often the humour were quite different.

Then I moved into the same area of London as my Irish friends, which was a massive Muslim area in the East of London. Never experienced such a culture shock in all my life (positive though!). I was in an area with only Bangladeshi restaurants, Bangladeshi clothes shops and I heard Bengali spoken wherever I went. London is one big massive culture shock if you get out of the immediate centre.

The cultural diversity of the UK is just massive. You adapt after a while but there's no comparison to Ireland on that front. Very few countries compare, actually.

Everyone's experiences differ but besides from the heat here in Spain, I found the transition much less of a shock to the system. At least in my experience. Plus Spain is only a 2 hour flight away.

SocSocPol

Seanchai wrote: »

Yes. Yes indeed.

'The sea oh the sea, is grá geal mo chroí, long may it reign between England and me. It's a sure guarantee that some hour we'll be free - ohhh thank God we're surrounded by waaater!"

As indeed would moving to Belfast or Londonderry from Dublin or Cork, after all the UK is the UK and it is just another forigen country.

Seanchai

SocSocPol wrote: »

As indeed would moving to Belfast or Londonderry from Dublin or Cork, after all the UK is the UK and it is just another forigen country.

Do you really think you're the first unionist on this site to come up with that troll sophism?

If the British state remains in the northeastern part of Ireland for a further 92 years (highly unlikely), it will still not make Derry foreign from Dungloe, or Belfast foreign from Ballymascanlan. No more than Dublin in 1920 was "foreign" to Dublin in 1923 simply because Dublin was no longer forced to be part of the British "UK" by 1923.

Solair

It's a bit like stepping through one of those Star Trek subspace anomalies .... Everything looks almost identical to home, then you start noticing that they use weird money, speak in funny accents and insist on measuring things in daft units from the middle ages and all while drinking beer at room temperature.

.... It's like the twilight zone I tell you!! You ask for a sliced pan and they send you to the kitchenware section of Tesco and if you say 'you're grand', they keep pouring!!

Cú Giobach

Cú Giobach wrote: »

What about someone from Ireland who goes on a two week holiday to Australia every year for 20 years and then decides to move lock stock and barrel and emigrate there permanently, no culture shock, no getting used to anything new etc.....;)
Distance: Moving from Morocco to Spain?? They are closer together than Ireland and Britain.

....which is why I said distance is only one of the factors.

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Don't you have family there though, Izzy Wizzy? I found it a fairly big culture shock when I moved there 8 years ago. I was living in the midlands of England in a massive Sikh community. My university was the most socially inclusive in the country and whites were the minority. It was also a poor city, the poverty I've never seen the likes of in Ireland and there was also massive problems with crime and prostitution in my estate. Not to say these problems don't exist in Dublin, they do of course but I've also lived in Coolock, a fairly rough area and I found this city much more "in your face". The accents, the attitude, the layout of the city, the buildings the beer they drank, the topic of conversation and often the humour were quite different.

Then I moved into the same area of London as my Irish friends, which was a massive Muslim area in the East of London. Never experienced such a culture shock in all my life (positive though!). I was in an area with only Bangladeshi restaurants, Bangladeshi clothes shops and I heard Bengali spoken wherever I went. London is one big massive culture shock if you get out of the immediate centre.

The cultural diversity of the UK is just massive. You adapt after a while but there's no comparison to Ireland on that front. Very few countries compare, actually.

Everyone's experiences differ but besides from the heat here in Spain, I found the transition much less of a shock to the system. At least in my experience. Plus Spain is only a 2 hour flight away.

Yes I do and I'd lived here before, but it was my boyfriend's first time in the UK when he moved over and he hasn't had any culture shock issues at all. He'd just come back from Asia, though, so compared to that, settling in in London was easy. Likewise, I'd been living on the continent, so when I came to London, it felt more like 'home' even though I'd never lived in such a huge city before.

Neither of us had much of an issue with the cultural diversity really. I went to quite an international school in Ireland, so had classmates from all over the world (including many Hindis, Sikhs and Muslims) and my boyfriend had worked in a Dublin hospital so he had mates from Nigeria, Thailand, the Philippines etc. I can see how someone from a very small or white place might be a bit shocked by all the different races and religions, but I got used to it very quickly. It sounds more like a socioeconomic issue in your case, though. I've never lived anywhere that poor - where I live in London is ethnically diverse but largely middle class.

Personally, I find the UK much more similar to Ireland than Spain is. Sense of humour is a big thing - I get on with people very well here and they 'get' my personality whereas in Spain, I find I have to change myself a lot. The food in the UK is almost the same as in Ireland, as is the weather etc....I always find walking out of the house into 30+ degree heat a massive shock in Spain for the first few days. A nice shock, but it takes some getting used to.

LordSutch

Serious question: I wonder is there any other archipelago (grouping of islands) on the earth where one part of one island regards the other parts of the grouping of islands to be foreign?

A Dub in Glasgo

I am sure the Portuguese view the Spanish as foreign, and the residents of Gibraltar view the Spanish as foreign

I am pretty sure the residents of the Falklands view the Argentinians as foreign

How about the Haitians, Domincans, Cubans, Jamacians and USA? they probably view each other as foreign.... or in your world, maybe not

LordSutch

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I am sure the Portuguese view the Spanish as foreign, and the residents of Gibraltar view the Spanish as foreign

I am pretty sure the residents of the Falklands view the Argentinians as foreign

How about the Haitians, Domincans, Cubans, Jamacians and USA? they probably view each other as foreign.... or in your world, maybe not

No no no, you're totally missing the point of my question in post #136.

fasttalkerchat

LordSutch wrote: »

No no no, you're totally missing the point of my question in post #136.

There would be more extremes than Ireland as has been mentioned. When we refer to a foreign holiday its safe to assume that we don't mean Blackpool.

A Dub in Glasgo

LordSutch wrote: »

No no no, you're totally missing the point of my question in post #136.

You mean the point of the Archipelgo? I answered that with the Greater Antilles. You could try the Lesser Antilles although you get the same answer.

How about the Malay Archipelgo if you don't fancy the Caribbean?

SharpshooterTom

UK and Ireland are two seperate nations. Get over it.

golden lane

how many french regard themselves as german....or spanish....

how many spanish, don't regard themselves as spanish...

how many belgiums regard themselves as french....

how many danes regard themselves as germans, and vice-versa...

how many people in countries around the world regard themselves as belonging to another nation.....????

Rebel Boy

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Technically yes. But you wouldn't call a trip to Liverpool a foreign holiday.

No you'd call that a trip to a prison camp :P

Cú Giobach

LordSutch wrote: »

Serious question: I wonder is there any other archipelago (grouping of islands) on the earth where one part of one island regards the other parts of the grouping of islands to be foreign?

Have a little glance at Indonesia and try to guess how many different ethnic groups live around that area.

Seanchai

LordSutch wrote: »

Serious question: I wonder is there any other archipelago (grouping of islands) on the earth where one part of one island regards the other parts of the grouping of islands to be foreign?

Ah, so all you Brits are now happy to be called Irish and to live in the "Irish Isles"?

Well done, LordSutch.

golden lane

Seanchai wrote: »

Ah, so all you Brits are now happy to be called Irish and to live in the "Irish Isles"?

Well done, LordSutch.

where are they then?........might have a holiday there...

SocSocPol

Seanchai wrote: »

Do you really think you're the first unionist on this site to come up with that troll sophism?

If the British state remains in the northeastern part of Ireland for a further 92 years (highly unlikely), it will still not make Derry foreign from Dungloe, or Belfast foreign from Ballymascanlan. No more than Dublin in 1920 was "foreign" to Dublin in 1923 simply because Dublin was no longer forced to be part of the British "UK" by 1923.

You are the very one one who said the UK was foriegn to us, well the UK is the UK, so live with it.

Border-Rat

golden lane wrote: »

how many french regard themselves as german....or spanish....

how many spanish, don't regard themselves as spanish...

how many belgiums regard themselves as french....

how many danes regard themselves as germans, and vice-versa...

how many people in countries around the world regard themselves as belonging to another nation.....????

Pining over former colonialists is a common post-colonial attribute of natives. Every young Independent Country has them. Not talking about Unionists either.

Solair

Seanchai wrote: »

Ah, so all you Brits are now happy to be called Irish and to live in the "Irish Isles"?

Well done, LordSutch.

To get a sense of how Irish people feel about the British Isles terminology, English people would need to imagine how it would feel if it were called the North West French Archipelago...

LordSutch

Seanchai wrote: »

Ah, so all you Brits are now happy to be called Irish and to live in the "Irish Isles"?

Well done, LordSutch.

Well done for what Seanchai? my question in post #136 or what?

parrai

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aikIr6p9Dtg