Stephen Ireland / Irish Squad (apologies in advance)

Rebelbrowser

I know, I know, but....

...can anyone cast any further light as to why he wasn't in the squad v Serbia?

Is he or isn't he now deigning to play for Ireland? Has he clarified this? Did Trap ask? I know many will say he shouldn't play for Ireland ever again / until he apologises but God we need his quality in midfield. I'm surprised this has been such a low key issue since the Serbia squad announcement. Given the age of Duff etc he's now probably our only top class player - like him or not.

Any info greatly appreciated as I haven't seen anything in the papers really. The one question put to Trap on it seems to have received a one line nonsensical response about James McCarthy (but you can have more than 1 midfielder in your squad as far as I'm aware and good and all as Paul Green is.....) and about never saying never...blah, blah, blah (but if not now, when?) but that's about it.

Anyone?

cson

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

Given the age of Duff etc he's now probably our only top class player - like him or not.

That got an actual LOL out of me.

He's been phoning it in ever since he left City.

Pudsy33

McCarthy, Hoolahan and Pilkington are performing consistently better then him in the premiership.

stovelid

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day we will be free of Stephen Ireland.

This is our hope. This is the faith that I go back to the soccer forum with.

I have a dream today. that news of an Ireland squad will not lead to tedious discussions about some traitorous slaphead that can't even stand out in a piss poor Villa team.

Brothers and sisters - with this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope.

With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our forum into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood.

With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free of Stephen Fucking Ireland day.

This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning.

Let freedom ring from the match threads!

Let freedom ring from the gossip threads!

Let freedom ring!

Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!

Hallelujah.

Rebelbrowser

I don't agree Ireland isn't playing well enough to get into the Ireland squad and I do genuinely think he is top class. But, parking that, if the reason he wasn't in the Serbia squad is because he's not good enough / not playing well enough then at least that's a reason - for better or worse. But is that the reason? Methinks not and Trap didn't give it as the reason.

Helix

cson wrote: »

That got an actual LOL out of me.

He's been phoning it in ever since he left City.

No he hasn't. He's been excellent for villa since he got his act together. He's now one if villas hardest workers in the pitch. He tracks back, does the unglamorous stuff, tackles well and gives everything for his teammates.

He'll be a massive player this coming season

Helix

stovelid wrote: »

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day we will be free of Stephen Ireland.

This is our hope. This is the faith that I go back to the soccer forum with.

I have a dream today. that news of an Ireland squad will not lead to tedious discussions about some traitorous slaphead that can't even stand out in a piss poor Villa team.

Brothers and sisters - with this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope.

With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our forum into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood.

With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free of Stephen Fucking Ireland day.

This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning.

Let freedom ring from the match threads!

Let freedom ring from the gossip threads!

Let freedom ring!

Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!

Hallelujah.

Winning player if the year for the club doesn't make him stand out no? That post will look very silly in a few months

_blank_

Helix wrote: »

No he hasn't. He's been excellent for villa since he got his act together. He's now one if villas hardest workers in the pitch. He tracks back, does the unglamorous stuff, tackles well and gives everything for his teammates.

He'll be a massive player this coming season

Stop going against the agenda with your well informed opinions of someone who watches Stephen Ireland week in week out.

LuckyLloyd

His ability has never been the issue

_blank_

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

His ability has never been the issue

More than one person in this thread thinks it is though.

cgpg5

Pudsy33 wrote: »

McCarthy, Hoolahan and Pilkington are performing consistently better then him in the premiership.

Are they? Thought Ireland had a very good season

Helix

cgpg5 wrote: »

Are they? Thought Ireland had a very good season

He certainly did. He'll ram those words down a lot of throats next season when he's deployed properly in a system that doesn't call on him to be a workhorse, although he did a mighty fine job in that role last season when he worked his way back into the team. I suspect last season will ultimately turn out to have been very good for him in his development as a player. He's a totally different proposition now. Much harder working than he ever was and still a few steps ahead of everyone else on the pitch. If Paul lambert builds the team around him with al Ahmedi behind him he's gonna be a monster this season with Darren bent to feed

crazydaize

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

Given the age of Duff etc he's now probably our only top class player - like him or not.

cson wrote: »

That got an actual LOL out of me.

It was a good one alright!

Pudsy33 wrote: »

McCarthy, Hoolahan and Pilkington are performing consistently better then him in the premiership.

Agreed on these 2.

stovelid wrote: »

can't even stand out in a piss poor Villa team

Agreed here too. Except their own fans thought differently

Helix

crazydaize wrote: »

Agreed here too. Except their own fans thought differently

Perhaps coz villa fans see him every week and don't have the nonsensical agenda against the guy that plenty here seem to. Ireland won player of the year for a reason

Francie Barrett

Do we really need this thread?

Father Damo

In the words of Diamond Joe Quimby, I am flip flopping.

Severely.

Despite numerous hate filled diatribes by me against S Ireland, I do not care any more tbh, if we have a manager prepared to select Green and McShane in a squad, I say that a treacherous little rat like S Ireland is a better call to fill up the numbers and keep the two stooges out of the squad.

Before last summer I would not have said it but times are different now. I would have Johnny Adair and Ian Paisley on the team if it meant no room for McShane and Green. Calling them for the friendly is my last piece of patience gone, Trap has to go if he is going to maintain this nonsense for the qualifiers.

crazydaize

Helix wrote: »

Perhaps coz villa fans see him every week and don't have the nonsensical agenda against the guy that plenty here seem to. Ireland won player of the year for a reason

They applauded his efforts and gave him an award. That was nice of them.

Don't mix up people having an agenda against him with people just not thinking he's good enough to play for Ireland. When he left the Irish squad a few years ago there was always a lot of people who wanted him back (not just fans of the club that he played for at the time). But because of his club form nobody really cares for that now.

Helix

Ireland is far and away the best Irish midfielder of his generation. He's light years ahead of anyone else in the squad. As a villa fan with no interest in international football I'd be delighted if he never had another injury risk international sortie again for as long as he remains at the club

Mr.Nice Guy

I watch Ireland closely as I've always admired his ability and how anyone can think he has been playing poorly I do not know. Maybe the loss of Bent and the fact Villa struggled to score goals as a result of that injury is a problem in people's perceptions. Ireland was regularly carving up good chances for Villa that a Bent-type player would have stuck away. I think I'm also right in saying Bent praised his performances. Ireland is still the best Irish player in his position.

Helix

Correct, bent is always full of praise for him and I'm excited by the prospect of them building up a great understanding

Helix

Helix wrote: »

No he hasn't. He's been excellent for villa since he got his act together. He's now one if villas hardest workers in the pitch. He tracks back, does the unglamorous stuff, tackles well and gives everything for his teammates.

He'll be a massive player this coming season

Excellent for Villa he aint been. He has just been a little better than than average stuff he delivered in previous seasons. Done nothing to warrant inclusion in the Irish Squad and until he makes an apology to the squad and a public apology then would not want him near the squad. He can't pick and choose when he wants to play for us. If he does come back it will be more for his benefit than for ours.

bullpost

Between rigorous workouts with a ninth dan japanese martial artist, the re-upholstering of his car fleet and the latest photoshoot for Howya magazine , the lad just doesnt have time to think about playing international football.

Xavi6

sReq | uTeK

Helix wrote: »

No he hasn't. He's been excellent for villa since he got his act together. He's now one if villas hardest workers in the pitch. He tracks back, does the unglamorous stuff, tackles well and gives everything for his teammates.

He'll be a massive player this coming season

Exactly, people don't watch villa, they might see highlights on MOTD and see villa losing and Ireland doing nothing much in a 5 min clip.

He won the fans player of the year and has been top top class this season for them, without doubt one of their stand out performers.

He should be in the ireland squad

cgpg5

How people can think he's not good enough for Ireland is laughable. Ye watched us in the Euro's correct? He is our best CM option available to us no question. Personally I'd like the idea of him occupying a 3-man midfield

noodler

Why on earth would he be in the squad?

Do you know if he has made any attempt to build bridges with the current management or expressed an unequivocal desire to return?

Do his performances even merit a return?

Strange topic.

Melion

So the one Villa fan on the thread who watches him every week says he was head and shoulders above most other Villa players yet people who see 2 minutes of Villa on the premiership highlights are arguing with him saying he was crap, this forum boggles my mind sometimes.

noodler

Melion wrote: »

So the one Villa fan on the thread who watches him every week says he was head and shoulders above most other Villa players yet people who see 2 minutes of Villa on the premiership highlights are arguing with him saying he was crap, this forum boggles my mind sometimes.

I for one will take Helix's views on board.

At the very least I feel he can give an honest apprisal of his own team.

However,a number of other aspects need to be taken into consideration:

1) How long has he been playing well for? What kind of run of form is he on exactly?

2) What does being "head and shoulders" above everyone else in a (last season anyway) poor Villa side tell us? I ask this legitimately - was he really that good or was he really only that good by comparison?

3) Does his newfound run of form mean he should take the place of someone who has performed well under Trap and without causing any internal problems? Andrews, Whelan, Fahey and McCarthy are all ahead in the pecking order at the moment and will be difficult to dislodge even if Ireland is outperforming all of them this season.

(I know someone will make the Green point but I don't think Green will have any place once all the above midfielders are back fit).

These probably aren't the important questions though - his technical ability relative to that of Ireland's pool of midfielders was never really in question.
His desire to play for his country (and ability to eat humble pie if required) are the main issues.

GavRedKing

Xavi6 wrote: »

LuckyLloyd

Melion wrote: »

So the one Villa fan on the thread who watches him every week says he was head and shoulders above most other Villa players yet people who see 2 minutes of Villa on the premiership highlights are arguing with him saying he was crap, this forum boggles my mind sometimes.

So a number of fans on this board who have been keeping up with football the past few years point out that his non selection has nothing whatsoever to do with ability / form (past and present), yet people eager to flex their knowledge on the fortunes of Aston Villa are repeating in a haughty fashion how good he was last season and how well he could do this year as if it is relevant to the issue at hand. This forum boggles my mind sometimes.

LuckyLloyd

My position on Stephen Ireland has never changed - he should not be allowed back into any Irish squad (friendly or no) until he has publically apologised and kissed the ring. If he isn't willing to do that he can piss off - no matter how lacking the options provided by those currently interested in playing for the country amount to.

Real simple stuff.

v3ttel

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

he's now probably our only top class player - like him or not.

Phrases like "top class" get bandied about all the time now for any sort of reasonably talented player. They are meaningless these days. Cesc Fabregas is genuinely top class. Ireland is no where near his level.

Better than what we have been picking, yes.

Great for Villa, yes.

Top class, definitely not.

Aenaes

People are arguing if he's not been playing well, just average? Fine by me, because average would still earn him a place in the squad.

A public apology is nonsense. There's only one person Ireland needs to get in touch with and that's Trappatoni. Apologise to him, convince him he wants to play, whatever needs to be done.

I really hope he's thinking hard about it now though. Either come out and commit himself or retire from international football because this thing needed to be put to bed long ago.

Seaneh

Xavi6 wrote: »

The lad drives his birds car to training once and people still use it as a stick to beat him with?

jethro081

Seaneh wrote: »

The lad drives his birds car to training once and people still use it as a stick to beat him with?

sorry, have you not seen how hilarious that picture is?

i mean

is your sight broken?

i for one welcome any posting of that picture, cos it is fantastically funny.

killwill

Seaneh wrote: »

The lad drives his birds car to training once and people still use it as a stick to beat him with?

Could he not have got a taxi instead?
Or cycles?
Crawled?

Rebelbrowser

As the person who started the thread it was the exact reason for his non inclusion in the squad that interested me. I didn't think it could be ability or form (he's doing as well as the competition at very least) and assumed it could only be that he still doesn't want to play or he isn't welcome to play. In relation to the former I thought he had (in his own typically bizarre, muddled way) indicated that he did want to return and in relation to the latter I mistook Trap's name checking of him pre and post Euros as evidence that this wasn't the case.

I'm still none the wiser to be honest as to wherein lies the truth but having read this thread at least none of the rest of ye know either! I suspect the bottom line is that he isn't Trap's kind of player and Trap is thus happy out not to be seen to have to pick him. If Ireland clarified clearly for once and for all that he does want to play then life would get more difficult for Trap. The footballing case for excluding Ireland is pretty flimsy at this stage. I personally see no other basis on which to judge the case for his return but I can respect the views of those who feel differently.

noodler

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

I'm still none the wiser to be honest as to wherein lies the truth but having read this thread at least none of the rest of ye know either! I suspect the bottom line is that he isn't Trap's kind of player and Trap is thus happy out not to be seen to have to pick him.

I reject this assertion anyway.

Trap has spent far too much time talking about Ireland for me to believe he didn't want him at one stage at the very least.

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

If Ireland clarified clearly for once and for all that he does want to play then life would get more difficult for Trap.

If he clarified and then apologised to Trap, the management and maybe even the other playes. Apologising to the players may be harsh to some of you but they were breaking their hump for Trap the last 4 years and Ireland was busy saying how much of a pain internationals are etc.

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

The footballing case for excluding Ireland is pretty flimsy at this stage. I personally see no other basis on which to judge the case for his return but I can respect the views of those who feel differently.

The footballing case for Andy Reid at the time of his exclusion in 2008 was pretty difficult for me to accept as well but there you go.


Bottom line is Ireland has to prove he wants to come back and he hasn't done this to anyone's satisfaction yet (at least as far as I can see).

Silentcorner

Bottom line is Ireland has to prove he wants to come back and he hasn't done this to anyone's satisfaction yet (at least as far as I can see).[/QUOTE]


The problem is some people seem to want to see him on his hands and knees, begging, he has stated publicly that he would like to come back one day, after that what more does he need to do, do people actually believe that he will pull the same stunts again, he was young, silly, what is done is done, we ALL should move on

The question is is he good enough for Ireland, look at his international stats, look at what we have, in my opinion he is plenty good enough, not world class but plenty good enough.

The only reason he would not be in the squad is that our manager has a rigid system that doesn't require a man of his talents, if that is the case...here comes another DOUR qualifying campaign, followed by a disaster of some sorts

Or maybe Ireland didn't want a call up, in that case lets just move on

noodler

Silentcorner wrote: »

The problem is some people seem to want to see him on his hands and knees, begging,

Nope - it really isn't.

Silentcorner

noodler wrote: »

Nope - it really isn't.

OK so what do you mean when you say he hasn't proved that he wants to come back to people's satisfaction?

noodler

Silentcorner wrote: »

OK so what do you mean when you say he hasn't proved that he wants to come back to people's satisfaction?

I meant it as it sounded.

He has made a number of contradictory statements about coming back over the past 2 or three years.

Silentcorner

noodler wrote: »

I meant it as it sounded.

He has made a number of contradictory statements about coming back over the past 2 or three years.

I'm sure you meant it as it sounded but I was referring to people who want a public apology or kissing the ring, what is people's satisfaction.

If he wants to play I say play him, its not like club football where he can be sold, if the euro's have taught us anything surely we can't turn our backs on his quality

He has stated only last June that he would like to return, what does he have to do?

noodler

Silentcorner wrote: »

I'm sure you meant it as it sounded but I was referring to people who want a public apology or kissing the ring, what is people's satisfaction.

Lets stick with the apology for a minute.

He definitely owes Stan an apology and arguably the players from that squad in 08. He arguably owes the FAI an apology for the scandal he brought on the country as well. Now, I say that whilst being extremely sympathetic of what happened to his girlfriend at the time.

Moving onto his comments since Trap took over - I personally consider it poor form for someone to say publicly say they don't like playing for their country or it is too much hassle or whatever. But hey, fine, thats just me and Ireland shouldn't have to apologise to Trap, the management or the players that made the sacirifices because of what I consider an affront.



However, the players who did work their collective asses off over the last four years to grind out those two play-off spots and ultimately qualification deserve an apology along with Trap and Co. It is not on for someone to question the importance, passion for wearing the jersey and then to stroll back into the squad like nothing happened. I also believe (IIRC) that he actually failed to respond to Trap on a number of occasions (I'd have to double check that though).

Does it have to be public? I don't know. I would like to hear he had apologised to everyone involved but I don't necssarily need him to address it to the fans although some might disagree again here.

Silentcorner wrote: »

If he wants to play I say play him, its not like club football where he can be sold, if the euro's have taught us anything surely we can't turn our backs on his quality

As I said, its not as simple as that.

He wants to play now but what if he decides halfway through a campaign or maybe during a double header that he wants out? Think of the disruption it would cause? The national headlines when the team is trying to prepare? No, as I said, he needs to convince us or at least convince Trap.

If the Euros (or the last campaign) taught us anything its that we put ourselves in with a real chance of qualification without him (not that I favour this, ideally).

Silentcorner wrote: »

He has stated only last June that he would like to return, what does he have to do?

Apologise and convince Trap (and possibly) the other players of his sincerity.

Helix

for the record too, he's never actually said he wanted to return

he's been saying the same thing he's always been saying

Helix

for the record too, he's never actually said he wanted to return

he's been saying the same thing he's always been saying

Silentcorner

noodler wrote: »

Lets stick with the apology for a minute.

He definitely owes Stan an apology and arguably the players from that squad in 08. He arguably owes the FAI an apology for the scandal he brought on the country as well. Now, I say that whilst being extremely sympathetic of what happened to his girlfriend at the time.

Moving onto his comments since Trap took over - I personally consider it poor form for someone to say publicly say they don't like playing for their country or it is too much hassle or whatever. But hey, fine, thats just me and Ireland shouldn't have to apologise to Trap, the management or the players that made the sacirifices because of what I consider an affront.



However, the players who did work their collective asses off over the last four years to grind out those two play-off spots and ultimately qualification deserve an apology along with Trap and Co. It is not on for someone to question the importance, passion for wearing the jersey and then to stroll back into the squad like nothing happened. I also believe (IIRC) that he actually failed to respond to Trap on a number of occasions (I'd have to double check that though).

Does it have to be public? I don't know. I would like to hear he had apologised to everyone involved but I don't necssarily need him to address it to the fans although some might disagree again here.



As I said, its not as simple as that.

He wants to play now but what if he decides halfway through a campaign or maybe during a double header that he wants out? Think of the disruption it would cause? The national headlines when the team is trying to prepare? No, as I said, he needs to convince us or at least convince Trap.

If the Euros (or the last campaign) taught us anything its that we put ourselves in with a real chance of qualification without him (not that I favour this, ideally).




Apologise and convince Trap (and possibly) the other players of his sincerity.

We'll just have to agree to disagree

I believe that the management involved ( both Stan and FAI ) have to take some responsibility, thats why there are in management,( and paid accordingly ) surely there were some signs the guy wasn't happy, however mad that might sound, spotting issues early is a managerial trait that means problems can be nipped in the bud, I am merely speculating of course but to follow on if Trap feels Ireland is good enough then he should be using his managerial ability to coax him back, but as I have already said I feel Ireland, like McCarthy and Reid before him simply doesn't tick the right boxes, if this is the case then I despair

noodler

Silentcorner wrote: »

We'll just have to agree to disagree

I believe that the management involved ( both Stan and FAI ) have to take some responsibility, thats why there are in management,( and paid accordingly ) surely there were some signs the guy wasn't happy, however mad that might sound, spotting issues early is a managerial trait that means problems can be nipped in the bud,

That is complete horse****. It doesn't even make sense.

Stan can be blamed for alot of things but he had nothing to do with Stephen Ireland telling a lie about his Granny dieing ffs.

Silentcorner

noodler wrote: »

That is complete horse****. It doesn't even make sense.

Stan can be blamed for alot of things but he had nothing to do with Stephen Ireland telling a lie about his Granny dieing ffs.

Ah this is getting boring...

Where did I say Stan is to blame for the lies he told about his granny

How does it not make sense

Am I suggesting someone apologise to Ireland....no

I made a point that it is highly probable there were visible issues with Stephen Ireland before this incident ( he did mention problems with the FAI before ) and I blame Stan for not handling the player well....this is what management involves...this is why you get paid...not just to take the glory if it comes your way but to take responsibility for the issues not handled well, I specifically mentioned both stan and FAI, I don't for a second believe Ireland is easy to handle, but if you have played football at any level you will understand the dressing room is full of personalities, and a good manager can foresee issues that most others can't...

I am aware that not every one will agree with my opinion, but there is no need to insult that opinion, I don't agree with yours but you'll see I have managed to remain respectful.

noodler

Silentcorner wrote: »

Ah this is getting boring...

Where did I say Stan is to blame for the lies he told about his granny

How does it not make sense

Am I suggesting someone apologise to Ireland....no

I made a point that it is highly probable there were visible issues with Stephen Ireland before this incident ( he did mention problems with the FAI before ) and I blame Stan for not handling the player well....this is what management involves...this is why you get paid...not just to take the glory if it comes your way but to take responsibility for the issues not handled well, I specifically mentioned both stan and FAI, I don't for a second believe Ireland is easy to handle, but if you have played football at any level you will understand the dressing room is full of personalities, and a good manager can foresee issues that most others can't...

I am aware that not every one will agree with my opinion, but there is no need to insult that opinion, I don't agree with yours but you'll see I have managed to remain respectful.

The motto is attack the post - not the poster so fair enough.


But any attempt to deflect responsibility from Ireland for his Granny fib onto anybody but himself because you think

it is highly probable there were visible issues with Stephen Ireland before this incident

is sheer fantasy.

Are you saying Staunton should have seen his girlfriend's miscarraige coming? That he should have realised Ireland was prone to making up excuses?

I mean Jesus Christ - I am all for outside the box thinking but there is no need to make up a theory to defend him for the lie.

Silentcorner

noodler wrote: »

The motto is attack the post - not the poster so fair enough.


But any attempt to deflect responsibility from Ireland for his Granny fib onto anybody but himself because you think is sheer fantasy.

I'm honestly not attempting to do that

Are you saying Staunton should have seen his girlfriend's miscarraige coming? That he should have realised Ireland was prone to making up excuses?

I am not suggesting that
I also don't believe that because of his girlfriends miscarriage he made a decision never to play football for his country again( that simply doesn't make sense)
I am suggesting that for whatever reason he wasn't settled into the squad as well as he might have been, and was perhaps looking for a way out
In that case Stan and FAI should have spotted this sooner, and if they didn't, as cruel as it may sound, they need to take part responsibility

I mean Jesus Christ - I am all for outside the box thinking but there is no need to make up a theory to defend him for the lie.

He did mention that he never found playing with ROI an enjoyable experience even as a schoolboy, why would that be the case, I have played in squads where I witnessed players almost bullying other players, it happens, did it happen here, as I pointed out I am speculating, but there has to be a reason he left, and then never came back...

We are obviously on different wave lengths on this one, I am more critical of the management structure, the reason being, I believe that it suits Trap not to have to consider him, believe me if trap wanted him there he would be there, the best managers in the world are more often than not excellent man managers