So.. I have paid 100 euro for property tax

T-rev

Enda and his corrupt cronies can travel half way across the planet to kiss my hairy a$$ before I will give them any sort of property tax.

Once again the people of Ireland have to pay for the mistakes, greed, and incompetence of our governments, financial institutions and construction tycoons.

It'll be a long time before I return home I would say.

Ireland needs some young and progressive politicians, not these old f**king traditional parties with their outdated policies, constant corruption and lies.

Its a shame. Ireland really had so much going for it back when things were good but trust the government to **** everything up. Everything.

scholar007

Marcin_diy wrote: »

I have paid 100 euro for property tax. Now almost half a year later 500.000 households still didn't pay it. What is government doing to get these money? is there any justice, or am I just stupid and officials won't bother to collect rest of money?

I don't know if you are stupid but I don't agree with this tax especially when Fine Gael senators "neglect" to tax their merc!

alastair

scholar007 wrote: »

I don't know if you are stupid but I don't agree with this tax especially when Fine Gael senators "neglect" to tax their merc!

I guess by that logic, you won't be bothering with motor tax, planning permission or tickets for your train journeys from now on either? :rolleyes:

Cienciano

My mate works for the council and he has to have an email signature telling people to pay the property tax with a link to the website with the irish translation. I asked him if he paid it, he said no and he's not going to!

alastair

Cienciano wrote: »

My mate works for the council and he has to have an email signature telling people to pay the property tax with a link to the website with the irish translation. I asked him if he paid it, he said no and he's not going to!

Another late penalty contributor then.

hawkelady

Has anyone received the warning letters the gov were talking about issuing ???

Ghandee

hawkelady wrote: »

Has anyone received the warning letters the gov were talking about issuing ???

Well apparently, 100,000 letters were sent out, but nobody seems to know anyone who actually received one.

(which i find odd)

Imagine that. :pac:

Cienciano

hawkelady wrote: »

Has anyone received the warning letters the gov were talking about issuing ???

Not me, nor anyone I know.

scholar007

hawkelady wrote: »

Has anyone received the warning letters the gov were talking about issuing ???

No actually I haven't - thats gas isn't it? 100,000 letters lost in the post or maybe the posties out of a spirit of fairness to their fellow men and wimmin mislaid them

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

Well apparently, 100,000 letters were sent out, but nobody seems to know anyone who actually received one.

(which i find odd)

Imagine that. :pac:

Do you know the 100,000 people they were sent to?

People have posted on boards that they had received the letter. That would suggest that letters are being sent out alright.

later12

hawkelady wrote: »

Has anyone received the warning letters the gov were talking about issuing ???

No. First I've heard of it.

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

Do you know the 100,000 people they were sent to?

People have posted on boards that they had received the letter. That would suggest that letters are being sent out alright.

Yes.

hiram

Ghandee wrote: »

alastair wrote: »

Do you know the 100,000 people they were sent to?

People have posted on boards that they had received the letter. That would suggest that letters are being sent out alright.

Yes.

To date, none of the 34 people in my circle of friends who haven't paid has recieved a threatening letter. Also, has anyone noticed the increasing acceptance across the media that the HC has been a failure.

alastair

hiram wrote: »

To date, none of the 34 people in my circle of friends who haven't paid has recieved a threatening letter.

The reminder letter you mean? Well - that accounts for 0.0001% of the potential recipients.

hiram wrote: »

Also, has anyone noticed the increasing acceptance across the media that the HC has been a failure.

Not really - the collection mechanisms, penalties, and information provision were criticised from the beginning - but the levying of the tax continues apace, and we're seemingly on target for the rollout of banded property taxes next year.

hiram

alastair wrote: »

hiram wrote: »

To date, none of the 34 people in my circle of friends who haven't paid has recieved a threatening letter.

The reminder letter you mean? Well - that accounts for 0.0001% of the potential recipients.

hiram wrote: »

Also, has anyone noticed the increasing acceptance across the media that the HC has been a failure.

Not really - the collection mechanisms, penalties, and information provision were criticised from the beginning - but the levying of the tax continues apace, and we're seemingly on target for the rollout of banded property taxes next year.

What do you mean WE. Freudian slip eh?

scholar007

alastair wrote: »

The reminder letter you mean? Well - that accounts for 0.0001% of the potential recipients.


Not really - the collection mechanisms, penalties, and information provision were criticised from the beginning - but the levying of the tax continues apace, and we're seemingly on target for the rollout of banded property taxes next year.

"We" can be on target all they want, I don't have it to give. I wonder should I try and reserve a space now in the joy training unit with Sean junior.

alastair

hiram wrote: »

What do you mean WE. Freudian slip eh?

Yeah - you've discovered my true identity as Revenue Overlord of FG or whatever. :rolleyes:

Monty Burnz

Ghost Buster wrote: »

The Govt need money because of fu*k ups made by their fellow politicians and because of greedy and possibly illegal self serving crap by bankers.

That would be fu*k ups made by politicians chosen by the likes of many of those bleating here about the unfairness of it all. Now a new mob is trying to manage the mess left behind and they carry the can for Fianna Failure.

Well played, Fianna Failure. The clowns will be voting for you again shortly.

alastair

scholar007 wrote: »

"We" can be on target all they want, I don't have it to give.

You don't? What were you going to use to buy that fishing boat then?

Geuze

Most analysts agree that a property tax has many advantages over other types of tax.

Here is a discussion of a Site Value Tax by Ronan Lyons of www.daft.ie

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2012/02/10/would-you-rather-tax-gardens-or-jobs-the-site-value-tax-debate/

Here is his full report on a possible SVT:

http://smarttaxes.org/report/


More on SVT here:

http://smarttaxes.org/category/site-value-tax/

Geuze

Ronan Lyons presented his proposal for a SVT at a conference in Jan 2012. See here:

http://www.ucd.ie/geary/newsevents/ieconf/


Here is the pdf of the conference presentation:

http://www.ucd.ie/geary/static/podcasts/ieconf/presentations/RonanLyons.pdf

Geuze

http://colmrapple.com/?p=171

In last Sunday's Daily Mail, Colm Rapple called for a particular version of a property tax. See above.

It's a tax on the imputed rental income from a house. It existed until 1969 in Ireland.

I still have to tease out the pros and cons of a SVT vs an imputed rental income tax.

V_Moth

alastair wrote: »

Yeah - you've discovered my true identity as Revenue Overlord of FG or whatever. :rolleyes:

The passive-aggression is strong in this one...

scholar007

alastair wrote: »

You don't? What were you going to use to buy that fishing boat then?

It sank because I steered it onto rocks much like the economy!

alastair

scholar007 wrote: »

It sank because I steered it onto rocks much like the economy!

Hmm.

Fulton Crown

crazy cabbage wrote: »

I know no one that will admit to paying it...

As my granddad said, If you aren't happy with a service/product would you pay for it? Apply the same to the country...

Being charged to live in your house. Not a fear of it. I will live in a tent if i have to

Your Gran daddy is talking bulldust pal....You are being taxed to provide services to your house and your family.

All these "won't pay merchants"...dear oh dear...niver realised there were so many stoopid people in the country.....although given the politicians we elect I should have guessed....

hawkelady

Fulton Crown wrote: »

crazy cabbage wrote: »

I know no one that will admit to paying it...

As my granddad said, If you aren't happy with a service/product would you pay for it? Apply the same to the country...

Being charged to live in your house. Not a fear of it. I will live in a tent if i have to

Your Gran daddy is talking bulldust pal....You are being taxed to provide services to your house and your family.

All these "won't pay merchants"...dear oh dear...niver realised there were so many stoopid people in the country.....although given the politicians we elect I should have guessed....

Wow, 800,000 stoopid( it's spelt stupid btw) people!! Put your monocle back on your mush there pal!!!!

alastair

hawkelady wrote: »

Wow, 800,000 stoopid( it's spelt stupid btw) people!! Put your monocle back on your mush there pal!!!!

More like 600,000 still to pay.

Fulton Crown

hawkelady wrote: »

Wow, 800,000 stoopid( it's spelt stupid btw) people!! Put your monocle back on your mush there pal!!!!

Sounds like your getting a little nervous my fine friend !

Wait till the first letters start ploppin thru the doors.....crumble time for a lot of the spongers in the opinion of this poster......:pac:

later12

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Your Gran daddy is talking bulldust pal....You are being taxed to provide services to your house and your family.

Not everybody can avail of these services, and go to expensive lengths to provide them for themselves. They are being asked to pay too.

tayto lover

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Your Gran daddy is talking bulldust pal....You are being taxed to provide services to your house and your family.

All these "won't pay merchants"...dear oh dear...niver realised there were so many stoopid people in the country.....although given the politicians we elect I should have guessed....

and even more sheeple. I am beginning to think that Enda carried many of you around in his womb before the multiple birth. You guys seem to get your rocks off on this kind of stuff. Talk about party faithful, it's getting embarrassing now.

K3lso

Where have Fine Gael and Labour got off on the fact or come to the conclusion that it is neither a) not criminal and b) immoral to enforce legislation where they possess the power to chuck someone out of their own home if they don't pay the 'rent', just as a landlord throws out a troublesome tenant.

Is private property not absolute in this country anymore? Since when did Enda Kenny change his mind. I seem to recall in 1994 when he stated that a property tax is immoral. How times have changed. For those defending these household charges and property taxes on the case that we will get further services - my thought is that I'll have whatever you're smoking....

What services exactly? We're not getting any services. And even if we were promised more, who the in hell told Fine Gael or Labour that we even wanted their sub par crummy services? This, of course is just another ploy...another in a long list I might add to bleed the taxpayer dry while they can keep going to the bank...

I'm sickened at Fine Gael having been a former member. I haven't renewed my membership as I suspect a lot haven't either. We really do need more options in the country but it seems that when someone has the motivation to get something together, they're ridiculed. Sad state of affairs...

If a general election was called tomorrow, the people of this country would complain all day long but at the same time...the next Dail would be no different than this one. You've got to laugh, the old phrase shines through...the people get the government they deserve.

melekalikimaka

K3lso wrote: »

Is private property not absolute in this country anymore? Since when did Enda Kenny change his mind. I seem to recall in 1994 when he stated that a property tax is immoral. How times have changed. For those defending these household charges and property taxes on the case that we will get further services - my thought is that I'll have whatever you're smoking....

define private property, that by definition would be a gray area in ireland full stop

Ghandee

melekalikimaka wrote: »

define private property, that by definition would be a gray area in ireland full stop

The rest of the post not worthy of discussing?

Is the indefensible, err.... Indefensible?

bgrizzley

alastair wrote: »

Not really - the collection mechanisms, penalties, and information provision were criticised from the beginning - but the levying of the tax continues apace, and we're seemingly on target for the rollout of banded property taxes next year.

i do believe on target may have been 97% compliance at this stage. where ye at? 50% maybe.

if FG were Robin Hood they would have hit an elephant in Zimbabwe...:P
(Maybe...)

melekalikimaka

Ghandee wrote: »

The rest of the post not worthy of discussing?

Is the indefensible, err.... Indefensible?

yeah he stated sarcastically 'how things have changed', sadly he answered his own question

Ghandee

melekalikimaka wrote: »

yeah he stated sarcastically 'how things have changed', sadly he answered his own question

Things haven't really changed though.

Half the country paid (half of them because they were either cajoled into it, or were hoodwinked by the paltry €100 this year)

The other half did not, and will not, pay or be fooled.




They can't enforce an unenforceable tax on a population who clearly won't pay it.


Ooh, and about the 50/50 statistics (if you believe the govt) watch them turn to 90% non compliance when folk see the real bail out charge rise to hundreds/thousands next year.

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

They can't enforce an unenforceable tax on a population who clearly won't pay it.

Two mistakes there. It is obviously enforceable. It will be paid - with late penalties in a lot of cases.

alastair

K3lso wrote: »

What services exactly? We're not getting any services.

Oh yes you are. Check your local authority website for an overview.

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

Two mistakes there. It is obviously enforceable. It will be paid - with late penalties in a lot of cases.

I'm just going by the facts we have right now.

1, No one will be jailed for non payment (according to Govt)
2, No one will lose house for non payment (according to Govt)
3, Any attachments placed on property, cap at twelve years (different Govt will scrap it by then)

Revenue may get involved next year (sign of the HHC failing inho) but, only if they get from source (which the unions wont agree with) have they any chance of collecting it.

Even if that happens, a lot of people may choose to go Self employed, or some might even give up work altogether.

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Revenue may get involved next year (sign of the HHC failing inho) but, only if they get from source (which the unions wont agree with) have they any chance of collecting it.

The Revenue are getting it next year. That decision was made at Cabinet.
The Revenue unions (CPSU, PSEU) have said nothing about standing in the way of any means of collection. To do so would be crazy for them as it would put at risk the CPA.

Ghandee wrote: »

Even if that happens, a lot of people may choose to go Self employed, or some might even give up work altogether.

wtf?

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

wtf?

Seriously.


Some people really cannot afford to pay this eaxtra tax DV, and if its deducted from source, could make all the difference in deciding if working for 25-30k a year pre tax, V's the Welfare lifestyle is worth it.

Its been discussed numerous times here, how some work 40+ hrs a week, yet have no extra disposable income come Monday morning.

Compare that to someone on the dole (as in using the dole and welfare as an occupation choice) who can lie in bed until midday, go to the bookies, pub, buy fags etc etc etc, chipper that evening, the n repeat Monday morning.

It is a reality. Seriously.

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Some people really cannot afford to pay this eaxtra tax DV, and if its deducted from source, could make all the difference in deciding if working for 25-30k a year pre tax, V's the Welfare lifestyle is worth it.

Its been discussed numerous times here, how some work 40+ hrs a week, yet have no extra disposable income come Monday morning.

If its deducted at source (I only ever expect this to happen for people who refuse to pay), then that source can be earnings or social welfare payments.

If there are exceptions or reliefs then they should apply to people on low incomes as well as people on the dole. We haven't seen the shape of them yet, but I'd hope they have a sliding scale and that even people on the dole would pay some property tax.

Ghandee wrote: »

Compare that to someone on the dole (as in using the dole and welfare as an occupation choice) who can lie in bed until midday, go to the bookies, pub, buy fags etc etc etc, chipper that evening, the n repeat Monday morning.

It is a reality. Seriously.

You have a cartoonish view of people who are on the dole that isn't shared by the vast bulk of people who are on the dole.

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

Seriously.


Some people really cannot afford to pay this eaxtra tax DV, and if its deducted from source, could make all the difference in deciding if working for 25-30k a year pre tax, V's the Welfare lifestyle is worth it.

Its been discussed numerous times here, how some work 40+ hrs a week, yet have no extra disposable income come Monday morning.

Compare that to someone on the dole (as in using the dole and welfare as an occupation choice) who can lie in bed until midday, go to the bookies, pub, buy fags etc etc etc, chipper that evening, the n repeat Monday morning.

It is a reality. Seriously.

Guff of the highest order.

In relation to the affordability of any tax increases - How many times have you been shown the relative taxation burdens that apply accross europe? Are we so special that we can't manage to get on with the level of personal taxation that applies in, say Germany? Sure - some people are in a fix financially, but the bigger picture still applies - we simply are not paying our way in this country with the levels of taxation applied. The only way forward is a mixture of long term loans, cuts in wsate, cuts in the sorts of services we should expect, and yes, increased taxation. There's no growth potential to be found in increasing our deficit - because we simply can't increase our deficit - no-one will give us the money. Other options? A return to the punt and massive devaluation. I know which route seems the safer to me.

No-one is going to be swayed over to the wonderful world of social welfare (really!?) with this property tax. No-one with an ounce of sense anyway.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

You have a cartoonish view of people who are on the dole that isn't shared by the vast bulk of people who are on the dole.

No I do not.

I specifically said people who choose the dole as an occupation, some folk out there know how to work the system.

Others on the dole, wish they weren't on it, and some would even work for free to get off the dole, and get back into some kind of employment routine.

There is a big difference in the two.

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

No I do not.

I specifically said people who choose the dole as an occupation, some folk out there know how to work the system.

Others on the dole, wish they weren't on it, and some would even work for free to get off the dole, and get back into some kind of employment routine.

There is a big difference in the two.

So we're agreed then. We should make concessions for people who would choose the dole to avoid paying Property Tax (if they exist).

Fulton Crown

later12 wrote: »

Not everybody can avail of these services, and go to expensive lengths to provide them for themselves. They are being asked to pay too.

Water
Fire Brigade
Refuse Collection
Roads
Community Centres
Street Lighting
Drainage
Road Sineage /markings.
Planning

later12

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Water
Fire Brigade
Refuse Collection
Roads
Community Centres
Street Lighting
Drainage
Road Sineage /markings.
Planning

Fire Brigade - already said in our own case we put out our own chimney fires like most people I know, but fair enough that's one
Refuse Collection - like many other families, we live too far off the beaten track to have access to public waste collections
Roads - that has nothing to do with household charge, that's what motor taxation is for
Community Centres - what's that? Never heard of the council paying for them.
Street Lighting - again, n/a to rural folk
Drainage - definitely n/a to rural folk!
Road Sineage /markings. - yep, that's fair enough
Planning - eh? this is not a free service, you pay per use.

I'm not saying rural people get no use out of the council, but it really is extremely limited to stuff like fire brigades and Yield signs.

All I'm saying is that there should be some recognition of that.

If one's property's value is not enhanced by way of access to the main public utilities & public facilities, then a lesser fee should be payable.

OU812

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Water

Soon metered & no problem with that

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Fire Brigade

already charge per call out

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Refuse Collection

already charge per lift

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Roads

Motor tax

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Community Centres

none around here (Dublin)

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Street Lighting

already pay tax

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Drainage

Ditto

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Road Sineage /markings.

Motor tax

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Planning

Brown envelopes ?

Anyway, most of that comes out of existing taxes. They're diverting a percentage of that fund to pay for banking debts & expect us to pony up to replace it. Not going to happen.

As for the overspend, well lets see some severe cutbacks in wastage & salary first, then we can look at plugging the gap.

I have a friend who's a courier, he was called to the office of the taoiseach last week to bring a padded envelope to the finance department office. There's a call out fee, a waiting time fee & delivery fee. Total charge was €23. They're in the same building !!! Was there nobody who could walk up the corridor/street & deliver it ? This goes on all the time.

Another mate who drives a taxi, called to the DOF, pickup going to mount street lower (across the green). 30 minute wait & 5 minute journey, charge was €40, beautiful day, no rain. Walk would have been 15 minutes tops.

Lets cut the waste out.

Fulton Crown

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Water
Fire Brigade
Refuse Collection
Roads
Community Centres
Street Lighting
Drainage
Road Sineage /markings.
Planning

Fire Brigade - Call out charge does not fund the service.
Roads - who cuts the hedges trims the verges ?
Community Centres - Most at least part funded by Local Authority.
Street Lighting - Repair and maintenence.
Drainage - who repairs storm damage etc.
Planning - Looks after OVERALL planning.

Some really naive posters here...yes waste should be cut out but....