Applauding at Mass

totus tuus

I've seen it happen fairly regularly in some churches, and I've been guilty of joining in sometimes! I'll not be doing it again, out of respect for the Divine Presence!

Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment.

Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, The Spirit of the Liturgy, 198.

http://cantuar.blogspot.ie/2012/07/clapping-in-liturgy-pope-benedict.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+taylormarshall+%28Canterbury+Tales+by+Taylor+Marshall%29&utm_content=FaceBook

Rasheed

Even at a wedding or something? Never thought about it to be honest, didn't know it was bad!

totus tuus

Rasheed wrote: »

Even at a wedding or something? Never thought about it to be honest, didn't know it was bad!

Never thought about it either, I wouldn't say it was 'bad' but rather inappropriate!

Rasheed

totus tuus wrote: »

Never thought about it either, I wouldn't say it was 'bad' but rather inappropriate!

Well thats fair enough. Was at a mass said by the bishop the other day and all applauded the singers which I thought was lovely. I dont know I think sometimes it helps to bring a bit of joy and excitment maybe. I understand the sombre mood and why we are there but maybe some occasions warrent it!

Snappy Smurf

The full quote is cool:

Dancing is not a form of expression for the Christian liturgy. In about the third century, there was an attempt in certain Gnostic-Docetic circles to introduce it into the liturgy. For these people, the Crucifixion was only an appearance. . . . Dancing could take the place of the liturgy of the Cross, because, after all, the Cross was only an appearance. The cultic dances of the different religions have different purposes - incantation, imitative magic, mystical ecstasy - none of which is compatible with the essential purpose of the liturgy as the "reasonable sacrifice". It is totally absurd to try to make the liturgy "attractive" by introducing dancing pantomimes (wherever possible performed by professional dance troupes), which frequently (and rightly, from the professionals' point of view) end with applause. Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly - it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.

http://www.rtforum.org/lt/lt92.html

Onesimus

What about King David who jumped and danced in front of the Ark?

and then when Immaculate St.Mary ( the ark of the new covenant ) came to Elizabeth St.John the Baptist jumped with Joy in Elizabeths womb at her presence.

I think that a dance that reflects joy about the presence of the Lord is fine. But it must be directed at the Lord Jesus. But applause? I agree, that is out the window. We must adore Christ Jesus only not each other.

Stuck Cone

Its as bad as those who clap when a plane lands!


You guys for real or is this a joke?

Snappy Smurf

Onesimus wrote: »

What about King David who jumped and danced in front of the Ark?

and then when Immaculate St.Mary ( the ark of the new covenant ) came to Elizabeth St.John the Baptist jumped with Joy in Elizabeths womb at her presence.

I think that a dance that reflects joy about the presence of the Lord is fine. But it must be directed at the Lord Jesus. But applause? I agree, that is out the window. We must adore Christ Jesus only not each other.

As Cardinal Ratzinger made clear, modern dancing has no place in the liturgy of the Roman Rite. Even the liturgical dancing in Africa is more of a rhythmic swaying procession than the kind of leotard-wearing gymnastics that one might see in liberal parishes in Ireland.

Cardinal Ratzinger wrote:

None of the Christian rites include dancing. What people call dancing in the Ethiopian rite or the Zairean [Congolese] form of the Roman liturgy is in fact a rhythmically ordered procession, very much in keeping with the dignity of the occasion. It provides an inner discipline and order for the various stages of the liturgy, bestowing on them beauty and, above all, making them worthy of God.

Rasheed

I have never seen dancing ,personally, at mass. At least I don't think so! Could anyone give a few examples?? Does a communion count?

Onesimus

Snappy Smurf wrote: »

As Cardinal Ratzinger made clear, modern dancing has no place in the liturgy of the Roman Rite. Even the liturgical dancing in Africa is more of a rhythmic swaying procession than the kind of leotard-wearing gymnastics that one might see in liberal parishes in Ireland.

Well it was not modern dancing I was referring to which is more suited for recreation. a dignified dance is what I'm talking about as his Eminence is referring to. But if dancing is not allowed then we must obey the local authority ( Bishop ) on that one.

Andrewf20

Just to share an experience - I was at a Sunday baptist ceremony in Clarksdale, Mississippi in an African American community a few years back, where clapping occurred along with mild swaying in the congregation to the energetic choir. (The choir even had a guy on drums behind the altar!)The place was buzzing with energy for the whole hour and there was alot of pastor - congregation interaction. For me it was the best personal experience of any religious ceremony I have ever been at - a great sense of community and togetherness along with the usual focus on biblical teachings.

In comparison, the Mass here for me lacked that spark.

totus tuus

Andrewf20 wrote: »

Just to share an experience - I was at a Sunday baptist ceremony in Clarksdale, Mississippi in an African American community a few years back, where clapping occurred along with mild swaying in the congregation to the energetic choir. (The choir even had a guy on drums behind the altar!)The place was buzzing with energy for the whole hour and there was alot of pastor - congregation interaction. For me it was the best personal experience of any religious ceremony I have ever been at - a great sense of community and togetherness along with the usual focus on biblical teachings.

In comparison, the Mass here for me lacked that spark.

You're comparing being entertained at a happy clappy service to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, where we kneel amid a multitude of Holy Angels who are present at the Most Adorable Sacrifice in reverential awe!! :eek:

Chucken

totus tuus wrote: »

You're comparing being entertained at a happy clappy service to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, where we kneel amid a multitude of Holy Angels who are present at the Most Adorable Sacrifice in reverential awe!! :eek:

Happy clappy :eek: Are those people not praising Jesus??????

Anyway:::: http://www.openbible.info/topics/praise_dancing

jank

totus tuus wrote: »

I've seen it happen fairly regularly in some churches, and I've been guilty of joining in sometimes! I'll not be doing it again, out of respect for the Divine Presence!



http://cantuar.blogspot.ie/2012/07/clapping-in-liturgy-pope-benedict.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+taylormarshall+%28Canterbury+Tales+by+Taylor+Marshall%29&utm_content=FaceBook

I am sorry but the Pope is a relic of the middle ages. He is way too conservative. Clap away Id say.

Rasheed

jank wrote: »

I am sorry but the Pope is a relic of the middle ages. He is way too conservative. Clap away Id say.

Yes, I'm swaying towards your view. Some celebrations warrent it, I don't see anything wrong with it.

totus tuus

jank wrote: »

I am sorry but the Pope is a relic of the middle ages. He is way too conservative. Clap away Id say.

The pope is Christ's represtative on earth as the lawful successor of St. Peter and visible head of the church, and the faithful are bound by divine obligation to obey him in regards to faith and morals. Last time I checked Benedict XVI was the the pope and not you, so your "Clap Away' comment is inapplicable!

doolox

...and the priest would always give us a mention at the end of mass during the parish announcements just before the concluding rite. A small polite applause would follow. This I believe appropriate but not in the main body of the Mass where the faithful should have their total concentration on the sacrifice being conducted.

It is a pity that most masses in Ireland appear to lack the joy that other nationalities seem to infuse in their religious services.

The church in the past emphasised duty and obligation over love and joy in the presence of God. Now we Irish see mass like a duty, something to be gone through and endured. Other nationalities and cultures seem to differ.

totus tuus

doolox wrote: »

...and the priest would always give us a mention at the end of mass during the parish announcements just before the concluding rite. A small polite applause would follow. This I believe appropriate but not in the main body of the Mass where the faithful should have their total concentration on the sacrifice being conducted.

It is a pity that most masses in Ireland appear to lack the joy that other nationalities seem to infuse in their religious services.

The church in the past emphasised duty and obligation over love and joy in the presence of God. Now we Irish see mass like a duty, something to be gone through and endured. Other nationalities and cultures seem to differ.

I tend to agree that many in Ireland see it as just a duty, some even leave before the final blessing in their haste to 'get it over with', or be the first to get to the car to get ahead of the traffic. I think it boils down to not really understanding the Sublime Sacrament that is the Mass.
We are to observe the Sabbath Day by hearing Mass, the love and joy one receives from the Mass depends on the devoutness of the individual imho!

Chucken

Chucken wrote: »

Happy clappy :eek: Are those people not praising Jesus??????

@ Totus tous. Are you not going to address this?

Onesimus

doolox wrote: »

...and the priest would always give us a mention at the end of mass during the parish announcements just before the concluding rite. A small polite applause would follow. This I believe appropriate but not in the main body of the Mass where the faithful should have their total concentration on the sacrifice being conducted.

It is a pity that most masses in Ireland appear to lack the joy that other nationalities seem to infuse in their religious services.

The church in the past emphasised duty and obligation over love and joy in the presence of God. Now we Irish see mass like a duty, something to be gone through and endured. Other nationalities and cultures seem to differ.

That is not joy. That is whats known as ''thrills of the flesh''. We don't go to Divine Liturgy to be entertained and treat it as a recreational event such as a stand up comedy show, dance or theatre. We go to worship and adore Christ.

St.Faustina, St.Catherine of Siena, the children of fatima and Medugorje; none of these Saints ( or walking saints in the case of Medjugorje ) had to ''dance'' or ''clap'' in order ''create'' some joy. And yet they experienced more joy than any of us at the Liturgy in their stillness.

I believe that dancing in the presence of the Lord ( a dignified dance that is ) is fine when done in a retreat setting but not at the sacrifice of the Mass.

Onesimus

Chucken wrote: »

@ Totus tous. Are you not going to address this?

Yes if it is directed at Jesus not at others.

totus tuus

Chucken wrote: »

@ Totus tous. Are you not going to address this?

Onesimus pretty much said it! However, happy clappy during the Litugy of the Mass is irreverent!

Rasheed

Yes I agree with the clapping during mass is not on, actually I've never seen that but surely when mass is over, to thank the servers/ priest/ choir or somebody that contributed to the mass is ok?

Chucken

totus tuus wrote: »

Onesimus pretty much said it! However, happy clappy during the Litugy of the Mass is irreverent!

..and I find it irreverent that you keep saying happy clappy.
I find it very sad that Catholics think there is only one way to praise Jesus, your way or the highway comes to mind.

Snappy Smurf

efb wrote: »

then god said to noah, were gonna build an arcy arcy!

Morbert

You guys are really over-thinking this.

totus tuus

Chucken wrote: »

..and I find it irreverent that you keep saying happy clappy.
I find it very sad that Catholics think there is only one way to praise Jesus, your way or the highway comes to mind.

.....whatever gave you that idea. I praise and thank God outside of Church! I find it sad that others think that Catholics think there is only one way to praise Jesus! The Pope said it's not appropriate during the Liturgy to be applauding etc. I wasn't the one who compared a service from another Country with the Mass. Catholics believe in the Divine Presence (Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity) being offered at the Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist, so you can see how we feel nothing compares to it. I apologise if I offended you, or others! End of discussion - Peace!!!

lmaopml

In my Parish there was a lady who sang 'Holy God we praise thy name' as the closing song not so long ago - It was odd that so many people just jumped out of their seats and headed for the door while she was singing..lol...blessed themselves and ran.....ha....it's not like she was out of key, she sang really well - It wasn't painful or anything and it only took a few moments.

The people who stayed firmly in their seats decided to give a small clap when she finished, it wasn't a 'happy clappy' ( hate that expression ) thing...it was simply acknowledging that they liked the choice of song and enjoyed singing along - and perhaps felt a wee bit bad about the 'Exodus'

Mass is not meant to be a 'show' we all know that, but it's nice to have a little manners too - nice to be nice and all that stuff.

Snappy Smurf

lmaopml wrote: »

In my Parish there was a lady who sang 'Holy God we praise thy name' as the closing song not so long ago - It was odd that so many people just jumped out of their seats and headed for the door while she was singing..lol...blessed themselves and ran.....ha....it's not like she was out of key, she sang really well - It wasn't painful or anything and it only took a few moments.

The people who stayed firmly in their seats decided to give a small clap when she finished, it wasn't a 'happy clappy' ( hate that expression ) thing...it was simply acknowledging that they liked the choice of song and enjoyed singing along - and perhaps felt a wee bit bad about the 'Exodus'

Mass is not meant to be a 'show' we all know that, but it's nice to have a little manners too - nice to be nice and all that stuff.

Nice is nice but in God's house, we adore God alone. If you want to clap a performance, do that at a concert. Clapping is so bad because it has nothing to do with worshiping God. It steals the glory for God and gives it to man. I've often been sad at what's happened - an otherwise reverent Mass and then a big round of applause at the end for the choir. That's just stealing all the grace from God and, thus removed from its rightful, ordered place, now worthless, dropping it on the self-satisfied choir. Choirs should be seen and not heard. You know they've done their job well when they remain out of sight, out of glory. They added to the divine worship and were all about ''He must increase, we must decrease''.

totus tuus

Snappy Smurf wrote: »

Nice is nice but in God's house, we adore God alone. If you want to clap a performance, do that at a concert. Clapping is so bad because it has nothing to do with worshiping God. It steals the glory for God and gives it to man. I've often been sad at what's happened - an otherwise reverent Mass and then a bit round of applause at the end for the choir. That's just stealing all the grace from God and, thus removed and worthless, dropping it on the self-satisfied choir. Choirs should be seen and not heard. You know they've done their job and yet remained out of sight, out of glory. They added to the divine worship and were all about ''He must increase, we must decrease'.

Exactly!!! The focus should be totally on God!

lmaopml

Snappy Smurf wrote: »

Nice is nice but in God's house, we adore God alone. If you want to clap a performance, do that at a concert. Clapping is so bad because it has nothing to do with worshiping God. It steals the glory for God and gives it to man. I've often been sad at what's happened - an otherwise reverent Mass and then a bit round of applause at the end for the choir. That's just stealing all the grace from God and, thus removed and worthless, dropping it on the self-satisfied choir. Choirs should be seen and not heard. You know they've done their job and yet remained out of sight, out of glory. They added to the divine worship and were all about ''He must increase, we must decrease'.

I take your point Snappy, it's not like as if in Ireland we go around back slapping and jumping over seats in order to take away from the Mass and the focal point of quietness..lol...Irish people are rather more demure at Mass, even to the point of keeping quiet and not singing praise sometimes, keeping quiet, and to ourselves is impressed on us for some very weird reason - but maybe one would have to have been there too Snappy to understand? I'm only relating a moment in time..

We 'collectively' were united in praise, and maybe did notice the few who ran...lol...but there is nothing wrong with that - it's a beautiful song no? - and we weren't clapping a 'person' but everybody I think was moved by well 'Holy God' and those lovely words of praise, especially after receiving the Eucharist - the Eucharist...beautiful!

I do agree however that sometimes when applaud is expected of the crowd it's probably not a good thing - but when it is rare and spontaneous it sometimes can be special in the sense that the Spirit is at work - it's like the people are moved and sang with their palms for just a moment - even if they never moved their lips to sing. They should though - they should sing imo...and not be shy.

Chucken

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_the_Dance_(hymn)

In writing the lyrics to "Lord Of The Dance" in 1963, Sydney Carter was inspired partly by Jesus.......Whether Jesus ever leaped in Galilee to the rhythm of a pipe or drum I do not know. We are told that David danced (and as an act of worship too), so it is not impossible. The fact that many Christians have regarded dancing as a bit ungodly (in a church, at any rate) does not mean that Jesus did.

I danced on the sabbath when I cured the lame,
The holy people said it was a shame;
They whipped and they stripped and they hung me high;
And they left me there on a cross to die.

Snappy Smurf

lmaopml wrote: »

I take your point Snappy, it's not like as if in Ireland we go around back slapping and jumping over seats in order to take away from the Mass and the focal point of quietness..lol...Irish people are rather more demure at Mass, even to the point of keeping quiet and not singing praise sometimes, keeping quiet, and to ourselves is impressed on us for some very weird reason - but maybe one would have to have been there too Snappy to understand? I'm only relating a moment in time..

We 'collectively' were united in praise, and maybe did notice the few who ran...lol...but there is nothing wrong with that - it's a beautiful song no? - and we weren't clapping a 'person' but everybody I think was moved by well 'Holy God' and those lovely words of praise, especially after receiving the Eucharist - the Eucharist...beautiful!

I do agree however that sometimes when applaud is expected of the crowd it's probably not a good thing - but when it is rare and spontaneous it sometimes can be special in the sense that the Spirit is at work - it's like the people are moved and sang with their palms for just a moment - even if they never moved their lips to sing. They should though - they should sing imo...and not be shy.

Oh I've been there - I've been at many Masses and witnessed clapping for the choir on many occasions and I've always thought the same thing.

You know what's even sadder than witnessing clapping for the choir? It's witnessing the choir members themselves applauding themselves to stir up the congregation to applaud them! Now that is sad.

lmaopml

Oh Jesus did sing!! It was part of worship in the Temple - Jesus 'sang'!!

Imagine the 'singing' Jesus I'm sure he smiled often too, what a smile that would have been to encounter..? We understand the 'Cross' and understand it, but what about the smiling Christ, the 'Man, God' who sang in the Temple too?

Not to go on..pml...about my Parish...ha , but 'Lord of the Dance..' was sung at Mass on Christmas day by our Parish Priest, he even clapped ( but not in a blasphemous way ) - he explained how we were celebrating our 'Communion' and there is nothing wrong with celebrating that - at the proper time - there is a time for everything under the Sun.

It was lovely.

lmaopml

Snappy Smurf wrote: »

Oh I've been there - I've been at many Masses and witnessed clapping for the choir on many occasions and I've always thought the same thing.

You know what's even sadder than witnessing clapping for the choir? It's witnessing the choir members themselves applauding themselves to stir up the congregation to applaud them! Now that is sad.

Well, I guess that would be sad if that's what the people were doing - that would be sad.

However, if they weren't doing that, and celebrating the King, than it wouldn't be so sad? We say at Mass...'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord..' just like the triumphant entry into Jerusalem...If their hearts are quiet sometimes and celebratory sometimes than maybe, just maybe they are praising Christ? Just a thought..


'Clapping' doesn't happen at Mass in Ireland too much Smurf - it's not about to take over, I don't think. We're very much focused on ourselves, and gratitude, and not looking around us at all here to even attempt applaud on a weekly basis....it's very rare in my experience.

Snappy Smurf

Snappy Smurf wrote: »

Choirs should be seen and not heard.

eh, sort of defeats the purpose of a choir

jhegarty

Snappy Smurf wrote: »

Choirs should be seen and not heard.

Onesimus

Chucken wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_the_Dance_(hymn)

In writing the lyrics to "Lord Of The Dance" in 1963, Sydney Carter was inspired partly by Jesus.......Whether Jesus ever leaped in Galilee to the rhythm of a pipe or drum I do not know. We are told that David danced (and as an act of worship too), so it is not impossible. The fact that many Christians have regarded dancing as a bit ungodly (in a church, at any rate) does not mean that Jesus did.

I danced on the sabbath when I cured the lame,
The holy people said it was a shame;
They whipped and they stripped and they hung me high;
And they left me there on a cross to die.

Yes that's right, David danced before the presence of the Lord. Why shouldn't we? haha you're post brought tears to my eyes. We should as Christians consider what chucken is saying here. That King David was excited about the Lord and although I have demonstrated that one does not need to dance to be excited about the Lord, why should we deny others this expression of excitement about his presence among us?

It's not like the Pope said CANNOT dance in the presence of the Lord. But that clapping is of no use in the Liturgy unless directed towards the Lord. But the thing is, do we really need to ''applaud'' Jesus? Surely Our Lord retreated from those who applauded him and desired to crown him King of Jerusalem in the Gospel? I think that ''applause'' in the Liturgy is wrong from the Popes perspective because it can cause confusion. The confusion it can cause is that applause mainly belongs to the secular world of recreational activity. But since many Christians who live in the world associate applause with secular acitivity, it can create confusion within them about the distinction between recreational acitivity and worship. Does that make sense?

lmaopml

Onesimus wrote: »

Yes that's right, David danced before the presence of the Lord. Why shouldn't we? haha you're post brought tears to my eyes. We should as Christians consider what chucken is saying here. That King David was excited about the Lord and although I have demonstrated that one does not need to dance to be excited about the Lord, why should we deny others this expression of excitement about his presence among us?

It's not like the Pope said CANNOT dance in the presence of the Lord. But that clapping is of no use in the Liturgy unless directed towards the Lord. But the thing is, do we really need to ''applaud'' Jesus? Surely Our Lord retreated from those who applauded him and desired to crown him King of Jerusalem in the Gospel? I think that ''applause'' in the Liturgy is wrong from the Popes perspective because it can cause confusion. The confusion it can cause is that applause mainly belongs to the secular world of recreational activity. But since many Christians who live in the world associate applause with secular acitivity, it can create confusion within them about the distinction between recreational acitivity and worship. Does that make sense?

Yep, perfect sense -

I think it's important to remember that Mass is not 'X Factor' time no...it's about 'Adoration' and 'Redemption' and community etc. etc.

However, it's really cool to hear the lilting voice, sometimes off key, and sometimes on - when one is not too 'particular', or wearing their judgy pants!

It's very moving to hear people sing in praise, especially when they don't particularly worry, but just sing with all their might in worship!

Onesimus

lmaopml wrote: »

Yep, perfect sense -

I think it's important to remember that Mass is not 'X Factor' time no...it's about 'Adoration' and 'Redemption' and community etc. etc.

However, it's really cool to hear the lilting voice, sometimes off key, and sometimes on - when one is not too 'particular', or wearing their judgy pants!

It's very moving to hear people sing in praise, especially when they don't particularly worry, but just sing with all their might in worship!

Yes I know the feeling. It is nice to hear people sing out of key and give it loads. The people who sit in judgy pants are usually the type that sit up front wearing their middle class sweaters anyways :pac: oh yeah, confession for Onesimus tomorrow

lmaopml

Onesimus wrote: »

Yes I know the feeling. It is nice to hear people sing out of key and give it loads. The people who sit in judgy pants are usually the type that sit up front wearing their middle class sweaters anyways :pac: oh yeah, confession for Onesimus tomorrow

Holy God we Praise thy name Thrice Holy God - Holy Holy Holy God...

sponsoredwalk

Snappy Smurf wrote: »

Oh I've been there - I've been at many Masses and witnessed clapping for the choir on many occasions and I've always thought the same thing.

You know what's even sadder than witnessing clapping for the choir? It's witnessing the choir members themselves applauding themselves to stir up the congregation to applaud them! Now that is sad.

You could hardly be both in reverential awe & judging/begrudging those around you at the same time. I don't know why you actually care or even what business it is of yours whether or not people feel compelled to clap to the choir, shouldn't you be focused on your reverential awe & not what other people are doing? Considering the detail & attention you've paid to begrudging others inside the church it hardly seems to me like you were paying any attention to your reverential awe & instead are just as bad as those you're chastising by diverting your attention away from that which apparently matters...

Snappy Smurf wrote: »

the self-satisfied choir.

Perhaps you are wondering, What's wrong with having a choir leader,a worship leader, or a worship team to lead the church's singing? Nothing... if every member of the church is content with it. However, many Christians feel that it robs God's people of a vital function: to select and lead their own singing in the meetings - to have divine worship in their own hands - to allow Jesus Christ to direct the singing of His church rather than have it led by a human facilitator. Singing in the early church was marked by these very features.

Listen to Paul's description of a first-century church meeting: "Every one of you hath a psalm" (1 Corinthians 14:26). "Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs" (Ephesians 5:19,NIV). Consider the words "every one of you." Song leaders, choirs,and worship teams make this impossible by limiting the headship of Christ - specifically His ministry of leading His brethren into singing praise songs to His Father. Of this ministry (which is little known today), the writer of Hebrews says, "Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers. He says, 'I will declare your name to my brothers; in the presence of the congregation (ekklesia) I will sing your praises" (Hebrews 2:11-12, NIV).

When worship songs can only be announced, initiated, and led by the talented, this element of the service becomes more like entertainment than corporate worship." And only those who "make the cut" are allowed to participate in the ministry of leading songs. We would argue that according to New Testament principle, the ministry of singing belongs in the hands of all of God's people. And there should be an outlet for this ministry to be expressed.

I (Frank) am no theoretician. For almost twenty years I have gathered with churches where every member has been trained to start a song spontaneously." Imagine: Every brother and sister free to lead songs under the headship of Jesus Christ - even to write his or her own songs and bring them to the meeting for all to learn. I have met with numerous churches that have experienced this glorious dynamic. Someone starts a song and everyone joins in. Then someone else begins another song, and so worship continues without long pauses and with no visible leader present.

This is exactly how the first-century Christians worshipped, by the way. Yet it is a rare experience in the modern-day institutional church. The good news is that it is possible and available for all who wish to experience Christ's headship through song in a church meeting. The singing in such churches is intensely corporate rather than individualistic and subjective."

"By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion. We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof. For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion. How shall we sing the LORD'S song in a strange land?"... "When the LORD turned again the captivity of Zion, we were like them that dream. Then was our mouth filled with laughter, and our tongue with singing: then said they among the heathen, The Lord hath done great things for them" (Psalm 137:1-4;126:1-2).
link

Snappy Smurf

lol about the choirs should be seen and not heard. I meant it the other way around.