Nice guys finish last?

HalloweenJack

Thomas, I can tell you're in a lot of pain.

Although my sexual history isn't the same as yours, I too have spent a lot of my life thinking I'd never meet anyone. It is tied into depression and once I got out of it, I shook that mentality and have met a few girls in that time. It can change.

I sincerely hope you get better, I've been where you are and it's a horrible place. All the best with your treatment. It can get better, trust me.

When you talk about genetics and social Darwinism, are you referring to your depression?

TeddyTedson

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I`m 26 and I`ve never had a girlfriend, but I`ve accepted the reasons why and its called social darwinism.

I`ve never even asked a girl out either, never kissed one simply because I believe my genes are too weak and no girl would ever want me anyway, I`m doing them a favour by having them avoiding me. I have considered suicide many times in the past, I believe suicide is the justification for social darwinism and erradicating freaks and weak people like me previously. I`m ok now though on anti depressants and getting therapy shortly.

But the realisation that I will never get a girlfriend due to natural selection performing in its most ruthless form does hurt like hell.:(

Heck I`ve never had a friends before in my adult life because I believe nobody wants me and its incredibly painful. I walk around town and see loads of couples holding hands and know I can never be like that and its incredibley painful like I say. I`m simply a social freak of nature, damn right it hurts me.

That's a very unhealthy state of mind you have.
I think you should get some counseling asap.
You might be extremely shy, but that doesn't make you a freak.
You just need to take baby step to overcome it. A little more every day and you'll be fine.
There is no god and there is no afterlife. You only get one shot in life so make sure you do your best to enjoy it.

Jamie Starr

What about being a slighty assholey but overall good person and finishing a solid sixth?

starlit

Where To wrote: »

Is this still true? When I was a courting the young ladies it was terrible hard work for an affable easy going goodlooking general nice guy like me to woo a fair maiden. Charm and good looks were no match for court convictions and battle scars.

Emilio Estevez was my hero.

Unfortunately it is still the case in this day and age. Though it can apply to girls too, nice girls finish last as it takes time meeting the person suited to them.

Confidence and a personality goes a long way not just looks. What makes the guy special and different to the rest what has he got to offer that others don't?

Where To

I've read this thread start to finish and I've only just copped on it was me that started it, have no recollection of it at all .

Anyhoo I think the most important thing anyone can be is themselves. Some people may think I am a lovely fella, some that I am the biggest wastard that ever walked. Most have no opinion of me at all. The only person whose opinion of you matters though is your own, be the best you can be and fluck what anyone else thinks.

PS I agree with the OP that Emilio Estevez rocks.:)

floggg

If the "nice guy" schtick isn't working for you, my advice is to go gay. I was an also ran when I tried to play it straight, but have been cleaning up every since I embraced gay.

Guys love this nice guy ****!

kowloon

Agnostic Mantis wrote: »

What about being a slighty assholey but overall good person and finishing a solid sixth?

Glorious gold, so so silver, shameful bronze.

Mongfinder General

blacklilly wrote: »

IMO this is totally false, what it insinuates is that if you treat a girl like a piece of sh*t she'll love you.
I'm far from ugly and I've absolutely no time for a man that doesn't treat me the way I deserve to be treated. I once went out with a d*ckhead who treated me like a piece of crap, the only reason I stayed with him was because my confidence was shot.
I've since been in relationships with what would be considered nice guys and those relationships were more fulfilling, emotionally stable and loving due to the fact I was treated with respect.
Any girl who dismisses a nice guy is doing so because they are afraid of truely positive and loving emotions and believe they aren't worth that.
Life is far too short to waste time with a d*ckhead who is incapable of loving anyone
but himself.

Relationships. A great word, covers all manner of sins. Ask yourself the question, if the "nice guy" relationships were fulfilling, emotionally stable and loving, why did they end? More questions than answers I'd imagine.

Look at it like this. 2 guys, Mr Perfect and your d!ckhead ex boyfriend are running a race. The prize? You. Who wins? You're ex. Why? Because the other guy is a figment of your imagination.

I'd imagine the reason why the nice guy relationships did not work is because they were dull as fcuk, predictable jaunts that petered out because you think there is something better out there for you. And that's fair enough, there might be if you're lucky. The nice guy relationship is exactly what it says on tin. Nice. Ingredients - stability, monotony etc. Absolutely soul destroying stuff.

Is that what you really want?

W.Shakes-Beer

I believe I am a "nice guy" and remained unnoticed by women for about 20 years.

I remained unnoticed because I was unhappy with myself most likely. Went to college, came out of my shell a bit and became the real me. I now have a girlfriend (who I met in college) who I love dearly and who treats me with the same love.

I'm still a nice guy, haven't changed much bar being comfortable with myself. My girlfriend describes me as "genuine".

Don't be a dick for the sake of it, be nice, comfortable, easy going, friendly and generally cheery.

I'm no dry shíte either, we both joke around and tease eachother but there's no malice whatsoever in it. It's just natural interaction.

Bottom line, love who you are, dont change yourself for anyone, dont go looking for women and you'll cross paths eventually with one who comes to you for who you are, and you'll find that she may be frighteningly similar as a person.

That's what happened me anyway.

VEN

blacklilly wrote: »

Any girl who dismisses a nice guy is doing so because they are afraid of truely positive and loving emotions and believe they aren't worth that.

Yes and also what about the girl dismissing the nice guy? They're probably not nice. Well on the outside they may appear to be but...

The dismissal may also come about as they don't want a long term relationship but rather a short term fling or a one nighter as nice guys generally don't give that first impression.

I think the nice guys finish last but they are the winners when all the womanizers, alcos, gamblers and hard chaw aggressives have worn themselves out.

VEN

W.Shakes-Beer wrote: »

I believe I am a "nice guy" and remained unnoticed by women for about 20 years.

I remained unnoticed because I was unhappy with myself most likely. Went to college, came out of my shell a bit and became the real me. I now have a girlfriend (who I met in college) who I love dearly and who treats me with the same love.

I'm still a nice guy, haven't changed much bar being comfortable with myself. My girlfriend describes me as "genuine".

Don't be a dick for the sake of it, be nice, comfortable, easy going, friendly and generally cheery.

I'm no dry shíte either, we both joke around and tease eachother but there's no malice whatsoever in it. It's just natural interaction.

Bottom line, love who you are, dont change yourself for anyone, dont go looking for women and you'll cross paths eventually with one who comes to you for who you are, and you'll find that she may be frighteningly similar as a person.

That's what happened me anyway.

exactly mate, you see you did finish last, after your girlfriend probably had to go through all the dickheads to get to you. you're the winner in the end, the last man standing.

amacca

W.Shakes-Beer wrote: »

I believe I am a "nice guy" and remained unnoticed by women for about 20 years.

I remained unnoticed because I was unhappy with myself most likely. Went to college, came out of my shell a bit and became the real me. I now have a girlfriend (who I met in college) who I love dearly and who treats me with the same love.

I'm still a nice guy, haven't changed much bar being comfortable with myself. My girlfriend describes me as "genuine".

Don't be a dick for the sake of it, be nice, comfortable, easy going, friendly and generally cheery.

I'm no dry shíte either, we both joke around and tease eachother but there's no malice whatsoever in it. It's just natural interaction.

Bottom line, love who you are, dont change yourself for anyone, dont go looking for women and you'll cross paths eventually with one who comes to you for who you are, and you'll find that she may be frighteningly similar as a person.

That's what happened me anyway.

I feel strangely heartened by this genuine post....good luck to you in the future sir!

VEN

Mongfinder General wrote: »

2 guys, Mr Perfect and your d!ckhead ex boyfriend are running a race. The prize? You. Who wins? You're ex. Why? Because the other guy is a figment of your imagination.

Mr Perfect is the invisible man on the race track? How can the ex race someone who as you suggest is not there? :pac: your theory doesn't make sense.
Jeez i doubt she wants to get back with her ex, god knows what he did!

Mongfinder General

VEN wrote: »

exactly mate, you see you did finish last, after your girlfriend probably had to go through all the dickheads to get to you. you're the winner in the end, the last man standing.

Jaysus. You make it sound like he was the last kid to get picked for the football team in school! Fair play though, seems like a happy ending.

Mongfinder General

VEN wrote: »

Mr Perfect is the invisible man on the race track? How can the ex race someone who as you suggest is not there? :pac: your theory doesn't make sense.
Jeez i doubt she wants to get back with her ex, god knows what he did!

Christ, not much of an imagination have we. This guy might be able to explain reality a little better than me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTKTh2MRm-w

I didn't say she should get back with her ex. However, knowing what you really want and don't want helps somewhat. Finding it is the tricky part.

VEN

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Jaysus. You make it sound like he was the last kid to get picked for the football team in school! Fair play though, seems like a happy ending.

and you know, he probably was. introverts extroverts, theres a place for everyone and someone for everyone. my own dad i don't mind saying was a dickhead, my mam re-married a nice, quiet, shy and very intelligent man, he's lasted. i find this whole 'confidence' thing very broad, seems like theres all levels of confidence. i've known a guy who was described as confident hit it off with this girl yet could never hold a conversation or speak much when sober ever.

SharpshooterTom

HalloweenJack wrote: »

When you talk about genetics and social Darwinism, are you referring to your depression?

I'm refering the fact that I think I'm a failure and that I'm the slow antelope that gets eaten by the lion, that wont procreate that must be removed from society because I'm so poor at socialising and getting a girlfriend and I feel I'm no one likes me. Its embarrasing. I very little quality of life social wise and the worst of depression a few months back I didn't see any point living any more, as I offer nothing but misery to the human race.

I even started reading crap like Mein Kampf :eek:, (not that I agree with his views I´m a lefty :pac:) but Adolf Hitler talks about inferior peoples and weak members of society that need to be eradicated from the gene pool, he reminds me people of people I met at school who spoke of me in the same way "I'm a loser" "go away you freak" etc and the way he talks down about certain members of humans feels the same way people I believe percieve me, a waster. He talks about how social darwinism is natural and the members of society are eradicated, sadly I believe some of that might be true for me. I told this sh!t to me dad and he told me that I'm fvcking crazy :pac: (well it is getting that way isn't? Perhaps I'm becoming borderline insane).

I've become very pragmatic in my beliefs in that social darwinism is responsible for all my problems in life, and its the reason why I'm a failure first place. It can't be any other way surely. I believe that science explains everything.

I had a dream that I was taken away by men in uniform and sent to the gas chambers to get rid of my genes. I've now idea why I'm thinking so f*cked up right now, but I'm looking for an explantion of why I suck so much life lol and pragmatic reasons I need to be killed or crap?

Well anyway I'm holiday in Spain right now ALONE, (in Seville) and when I was Cordoba yesturday I dreamt about jumping off the main bridge here and I was almost suicidal at times walking through the La Alhambra in Granada, I see all these couples walking around holding hands and it depresses me that I will potentially never be that way as I´m too freakish.

I'm trying to enjoy Spain right now, I'm in Seville for 4 days and then in Madrid for 5 days (then home to begin therapy FINALLY on 20th august with a CBT therapist). I booked it ages ago so I had to go to this holiday, whether it was a good idea for me or not.

I'm not suicidal currently or anything but severely depressed trying to get through my holiday, I hope the mods don't treat my post as a suicidal post (as they are strict about suicidal posts understandably), its just a bit of ranting getting things off my chest, I'm just so lonely over here right now and its tough as f*ck at the moment.

Thanks to 1ZRed and everyone else for replying to me, I really really appreciate it. I have no one to speak to over here so its really comforting and it reassures me and allows me to get on with my holiday.

Millicent

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I've become very pragmatic in my beliefs in that social darwinism is responsible for all my problems in life, and its the reason why I'm a failure first place. It can't be any other way surely. I believe that science explains everything.

It's not. Trust me. Depression's a fucker of an illness and it messes with your self perception. I used to think I was destined to have life kick me in the arse time and time again. Like your social Darwinism but with mysticism. I've since learned it's not true following counselling, am in a nice relationship, and have knocked all those untrue thoughts on the head.

Try to enjoy your break. I hear Seville is beautiful so try to make the most of it, enjoy the sun and just kick back and relax. Take care of yourself. Good luck with the therapy.

SharpshooterTom

Thanks for the post Millicent.

Guys just ignore my previous post, fvcking load of old jibberish. :pac: I'm just ranting and raving getting my crazy posessed thoughts out in the internet, its all bollocks and I apologise for wasting so much bandwidth with so much crap that I post. :pac: But it is borderline sometimes what I think about myself and why I'm a social failure. I look for reasons and feels that it.

Anyway that CBT therapy can´t come quick enough eh? Boy I'm in need of it. My dad (who is an old age psychiatrist) says my thought processes are completely f*cked up, I think so to. Hopefully it will bloody change!

Where To

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

HalloweenJack wrote: »

When you talk about genetics and social Darwinism, are you referring to your depression?

I'm refering the fact that I think I'm a failure and that I'm the slow antelope that gets eaten by the lion, that wont procreate that must be removed from society because I'm so poor at socialising and getting a girlfriend and I feel I'm no one likes me. Its embarrasing. I very little quality of life social wise and the worst of depression a few months back I didn't see any point living any more, as I offer nothing but misery to the human race.

I even started reading crap like Mein Kampf :eek:, (not that I agree with his views I´m a lefty :pac:) but Adolf Hitler talks about inferior peoples and weak members of society that need to be eradicated from the gene pool, he reminds me people of people I met at school who spoke of me in the same way "I'm a loser" "go away you freak" etc and the way he talks down about certain members of humans feels the same way people I believe percieve me, a waster. He talks about how social darwinism is natural and the members of society are eradicated, sadly I believe some of that might be true for me. I told this sh!t to me dad and he told me that I'm fvcking crazy :pac: (well it is getting that way isn't? Perhaps I'm becoming borderline insane).

I've become very pragmatic in my beliefs in that social darwinism is responsible for all my problems in life, and its the reason why I'm a failure first place. It can't be any other way surely. I believe that science explains everything.

I had a dream that I was taken away by men in uniform and sent to the gas chambers to get rid of my genes. I've now idea why I'm thinking so f*cked up right now, but I'm looking for an explantion of why I suck so much life lol and pragmatic reasons I need to be killed or crap?

Well anyway I'm holiday in Spain right now ALONE, (in Seville) and when I was Cordoba yesturday I dreamt about jumping off the main bridge here and I was almost suicidal at times walking through the La Alhambra in Granada, I see all these couples walking around holding hands and it depresses me that I will potentially never be that way as I´m too freakish.

I'm trying to enjoy Spain right now, I'm in Seville for 4 days and then in Madrid for 5 days (then home to begin therapy FINALLY on 20th august with a CBT therapist). I booked it ages ago so I had to go to this holiday, whether it was a good idea for me or not.

I'm not suicidal currently or anything but severely depressed trying to get through my holiday, I hope the mods don't treat my post as a suicidal post (as they are strict about suicidal posts understandably), its just a bit of ranting getting things off my chest, I'm just so lonely over here right now and its tough as f*ck at the moment.

Thanks to 1ZRed and everyone else for replying to me, I really really appreciate it. I have no one to speak to over here so its really comforting and it reassures me and allows me to get on with my holiday.

Never ever refer to yourself as a 'failure'.

Every day you're alive is a success, and it's flipping great to be alive. There's more to life than relationships and there's more ways to enjoy life other than by being 'popular'.

Im heading to Vegas for a week in October on my own and you know what?

I'm going to make damn sure I enjoy everylast minute of it.

Icyseanfitz

damn it man, life is a success as long as your living, relationships arnt everything go take up some hobbies (cycling, surfing etc.) meet some new people and just go with the flow

Millicent

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Thanks for the post Millicent.

Guys just ignore my previous post, fvcking load of old jibberish. :pac: I'm just ranting and raving getting my crazy posessed thoughts out in the internet, its all bollocks and I apologise for wasting so much bandwidth with so much crap that I post. :pac: But it is borderline sometimes what I think about myself and why I'm a social failure. I look for reasons and feels that it.

Anyway that CBT therapy can´t come quick enough eh? Boy I'm in need of it. My dad (who is an old age psychiatrist) says my thought processes are completely f*cked up, I think so to. Hopefully it will bloody change!

You're welcome. It's not gibberish either, just you working on some stuff and getting it out of your system. Perfectly healthy. Be nice to yourself.

Think of it this way. Some strangers on the internet, who had no obligation to, thought you seemed like a nice enough person to want to reach out to you when you were feeling bad. They wouldn't do that for a failure, someone crazy, or someone who was just wasting their bandwidth.x

mackg

I used to be a nice guy then I saw this.

Grayson

@ThomasFlynn Think of relationships like maths. (I'm going somewhere with this). No-one is goot at maths. Well, there are a few who are naturally good, the the rest of humanity have to work at it. If you ask most people what percentage 5 in 1000 is, they'll pause, screw up their eyes and eventually come up with an answer. If you ask someone who works with numbers you'll get the answer a lot faster. You ask Rainman and you'll get the answer really fast.

It's the same with relationships. There are a few lucky guys who are born naturals. They can interact with women perfectly. For the rest of us, it's a struggle from our teens to try and figure it out. The thing is, with maths, there are rulebooks and teachers. With this, there's nothing. Just friends and family.

You may think that there's something wrong with you. But the simple fact is that you, like everyone else, don't have an innate ability for it. The only way to gain this ability is through practice and perhaps browsing the internet (Everything is online now). Like maths, the more you practice, the better you'll get at it and the easier it'll become.

blacklilly wrote: »

IMO this is totally false, what it insinuates is that if you treat a girl like a piece of sh*t she'll love you.
I'm far from ugly and I've absolutely no time for a man that doesn't treat me the way I deserve to be treated. I once went out with a d*ckhead who treated me like a piece of crap, the only reason I stayed with him was because my confidence was shot.
I've since been in relationships with what would be considered nice guys and those relationships were more fulfilling, emotionally stable and loving due to the fact I was treated with respect.
Any girl who dismisses a nice guy is doing so because they are afraid of truely positive and loving emotions and believe they aren't worth that.
Life is far too short to waste time with a d*ckhead who is incapable of loving anyone
but himself.

It doesn't insuinate that if you treat a woman like **** she'll love you. It means that you don't reward behaviour unless there's something to reward. You can be perfectly nice and polite, but don't go any further unless the girl does something to deserve it. And if she doesn't, then she doesn't deserve your time.
If you start doing stuff like buying drinks etc without her deserving it, she'll think you're a doormat. There are two different ends of a scale. Doormat on one side, dickhead on the other. A guy should be somewhere inbetween.

fakearms123

I would consider myself a nice guy but not in the sense of being too passive to chat to a girl, I can still be a nice guy while being playful and by playful I mean light-hearted slagging. I think some people might consider that being an arsehole but it all depends on their sense of humour and your delivery of those type of jokes.

miamee

At the risk of going off-topic - ThomasFlynn you are clearly an intelligent guy who thinks a lot about things. You are brave enough to go on holidays by yourself (most adults I know are not), you have been strong enough to talk to someone about how you are feeling and to take the first step to getting yourself the help you know you need (organising therapy). You are on the right track and I hope you keep going with it. Good luck

Nice guys
I think some people see 'nice' as an insult, a lack of personality but some people are genuinely nice (likeable, affable, decent) while still managing to be themselves. I would assume that men and women alike just want someone with a personality who is comfortable being themselves - nice when they feel like it, grumpy as f&ck when they feel like it too It gives you the confidence to then also be yourself and not be worried about not being in top form 24/7. We're all only human.

starlit

It counts when you are being yourself even if it means having a sense of humour some people will get it others won't. If someone you can have a laugh with then its worth being yourself and being able to relate to that person. I think if you on a par with them ye click but if not then it might be harder to get on.

If you can click with someone its half the battle just a matter of being friendly and striking up a conversation what's the worst that could happen. Though talking out your behind won't do you any favours though.

Some people may not always tell you into them without you saying something or at least giving off some kind of sign they like to go with said person.

W.Shakes-Beer

VEN wrote: »

exactly mate, you see you did finish last, after your girlfriend probably had to go through all the dickheads to get to you. you're the winner in the end, the last man standing.

Funnily enough, she was the same as me in a way. She's a good judge of character and never actually let herself get involved with arseholes so I feel lucky to be the one that she opened her arms to.

Its a good feeling

Joey the lips

Nice guys might finish last but choosy women and those who make mistakes usually end up in personel issues wondering why they cant find a nice chap.

Dont worry. Always be nice. You will have the pick of the bunch soon enough. They might be used cars but a least they come with the guarantee of experience

starlit

Joey the lips wrote: »

Nice guys might finish last but choosy women and those who make mistakes usually end up in personel issues wondering why they cant find a nice chap.

Dont worry. Always be nice. You will have the pick of the bunch soon enough. They might be used cars but a least they come with the guarantee of experience

Why do you think women are fussy? Some women aren't and they still end up with the 'bad boys'!? Is it because they are open to going out with anyone is there much of a difference or is there a major difference in women's tastes then?

People aren't always attracted to or click with everyone or the same type of people. Some are just genuinely friendly and be friends with everyone but some are just fussy who they mix with too.

Which is better someone who is open to going out with anyone or someone who is fussy if it means having certain standards met?

You can't control who you fall for!? There still has to be something there some kind of spark and gel with that person!

marshbaboon

I'm starting to think OP was being sexist, and trying to push every single woman into the same bracket :P.

You can't put everyone into the same demographic. It's very much a case of different strokes for different folks. I always find it's more a question of compatibility. I'd definitely consider myself a nice guy, I'd genuinely rather be single than act like a dick to attract a girl with probable low self confidence.

I've turned down the advances of girls, and they've turned me down. I couldn't possibly claim I know what's going on in their brains, or they mine, so it simply comes down to compatibility & personal circumstances at the time. I don't know about anyone else, but I rarely meet two girls with the same personality.

kfallon

marshbaboon wrote: »

I'm starting to think OP was being sexist, and trying to push every single woman into the same bracket :P.

You can't put everyone into the same demographic. It's very much a case of different strokes for different folks. I always find it's more a question of compatibility. I'd definitely consider myself a nice guy, I'd genuinely rather be single than act like a dick to attract a girl with probable low self confidence.

I've turned down the advances of girls, and they've turned me down. I couldn't possibly claim I know what's going on in their brains, or they mine, so it simply comes down to compatibility & personal circumstances at the time. I don't know about anyone else, but I rarely meet two girls with the same personality.

*snigger*

Grayson

W.Shakes-Beer wrote: »

Funnily enough, she was the same as me in a way. She's a good judge of character and never actually let herself get involved with arseholes so I feel lucky to be the one that she opened her arms to.

Its a good feeling

Yeah. Her arms

marshbaboon

kfallon wrote: »

*snigger*

GOD... you're so immature... I was being cereal.

Defiler Of The Coffin

doovdela wrote: »

Why do you think women are fussy? Some women aren't and they still end up with the 'bad boys'!? Is it because they are open to going out with anyone is there much of a difference or is there a major difference in women's tastes then?

People aren't always attracted to or click with everyone or the same type of people. Some are just genuinely friendly and be friends with everyone but some are just fussy who they mix with too.

Which is better someone who is open to going out with anyone or someone who is fussy if it means having certain standards met?

You can't control who you fall for!? There still has to be something there some kind of spark and gel with that person!

Maybe some women are too fussy and pass-up the opportunity to go out with someone just because they don't fit the ideal they have in their mind about what they want in a partner? We've all heard of people who didn't have a huge attraction to their partners at the start but got to know them better and are happy now.

True you cannot control who you fall for but you can open about meeting people you might! It can all come down to a numbers game. There is a lot of variables, two people who on the face of it are similar personality and looks-wise mightn't attract the same kind of people at all.

'Tis hard to know...

Wibbs

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

Maybe some women are too fussy and pass-up the opportunity to go out with someone just because they don't fit the ideal they have in their mind about what they want in a partner?

Maybe, I've known a couple of women like this in my time and I'd add in personal experience of some men with faces like a baboons arse and a personality to match who were holding out for swimwear models.

marshbaboon

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe, I've known a couple of women like this in my time and I'd add in personal experience of some men with faces like a baboons arse and a personality to match who were holding out for swimwear models.

What's wrong with my arse

Borat_Sagdiyev

Nice guys definitely finish last.

You need to have cojones and be able to stand up for yourself before women ( before ANYONE ) will have respect for you.

I was at a party a while back and I was kissing this girl. We went upstairs in to bed and she stopped it and said "I can't do this". I asked why - her response was "You're too nice."

So I pulled away from her and said "Oh for f***s sake don't give me that f***ing sh*t."

Guess what ? We then had sex.

I was too nice in her head, I told her to cop on, showing her that I was able to stand up for myself and not just go along with whatever it was she had decided.

Like the snickers ad, GET SOME NUTS !

St.Spodo

Being nice and being assertive/bold aren't mutually exclusive. Anyone who isn't and can't be both won't really get anywhere in the long run.

starlit

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

There is a lot of variables, two people who on the face of it are similar personality and looks-wise mightn't attract the same kind of people at all.

'Tis hard to know...

Ok, interesting point there!

Dwellingdweller

Personally, I've always been a nice/passive guy. As lots of people have said being that type of person is usually a symptom of low self-esteem/self worth which nobody is obliged to find attractive. Looking back, I never became infatuated with girls who had low self-esteem ( although I did become infatuated a lot, sadly :P ), so why should the reverse apply to women? I don't worry about what others think of me now. I just work on developing myself and my own self confidence. You can't love someone if you don't love yourself first

Also, I'm at an interesting dilemma right now. I recently converted to Buddhism and it emphasis that there is no "self" - that our notion of a self or ego is constructed based on our experiences. However, becoming "egoless" entails, at first glance, a loss of self-confidence (although, with the cessation of the ego, one also becomes fully confident because their past experiences don't hold them back). The challenge I'm facing is integrating the noble qualities of kindness, goodwill, acceptance, and support with the qualities of the confident and successful person I'd like to be. They seem to be at conflict sometimes, but I hope to combine them and become a great person

miamee

marshbaboon wrote: »

I'm starting to think OP was being sexist, and trying to push every single woman into the same bracket :P.

You can't put everyone into the same demographic. It's very much a case of different strokes for different folks. I always find it's more a question of compatibility. I'd definitely consider myself a nice guy, I'd genuinely rather be single than act like a dick to attract a girl with probable low self confidence.

I've turned down the advances of girls, and they've turned me down. I couldn't possibly claim I know what's going on in their brains, or they mine, so it simply comes down to compatibility & personal circumstances at the time. I don't know about anyone else, but I rarely meet two girls with the same personality.

Ditto to this - some women would also rather stay single than go out with a string of guys who they have little or no interest in just to see what/who is out there.

Mr Benevolent

I've always been 'nice' and I don't find it a problem at all. The women still come.

pablohoney87

Confab wrote: »

I've always been 'nice' and I don't find it a problem at all. The women still come.

Giggity

Feisar

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

Personally, I've always been a nice/passive guy. As lots of people have said being that type of person is usually a symptom of low self-esteem/self worth which nobody is obliged to find attractive. Looking back, I never became infatuated with girls who had low self-esteem ( although I did become infatuated a lot, sadly :P ), so why should the reverse apply to women? I don't worry about what others think of me now. I just work on developing myself and my own self confidence. You can't love someone if you don't love yourself first

Also, I'm at an interesting dilemma right now. I recently converted to Buddhism and it emphasis that there is no "self" - that our notion of a self or ego is constructed based on our experiences. However, becoming "egoless" entails, at first glance, a loss of self-confidence (although, with the cessation of the ego, one also becomes fully confident because their past experiences don't hold them back). The challenge I'm facing is integrating the noble qualities of kindness, goodwill, acceptance, and support with the qualities of the confident and successful person I'd like to be. They seem to be at conflict sometimes, but I hope to combine them and become a great person

I know nothing about Buddhism. However on the ego issue. I used to practice Karate at a high level. So as a black belt sparring/fighting junior grades used to mess me up as the ego got in the way. I'd think I had to win anything else was embarrassing. Solution? I let myself loose loads, for months. Now while doing this I worked on specific elements of my game so I was learning but nevertheless I was loosing repeatedly. No one thought I was any good. The pressure to perform and the ego and crap that goes with it melted away.

Ego is a bad thing but confidence is different. If you know yourself inside out then saying you'll look after whatever be it in work or wherever isn't an ego trip it's simply a statement of fact.

Feisar

OK, what have all these nice people got going for them? Like if someone is described as nice I think it's fair to say they're probably fairly bland. Or at least are not showing their qualities.

marshbaboon

Feisar wrote: »

OK, what have all these nice people got going for them? Like if someone is described as nice I think it's fair to say they're probably fairly bland. Or at least are not showing their qualities.

Or possibly, just maybe, they're a nice individual.

L.Jenkins

Just a quick one though, define nice. Every time I think of nice, I think of Prince Charles or Phillip and it makes me shudder.

Dwellingdweller

Feisar wrote: »

I know nothing about Buddhism. However on the ego issue. I used to practice Karate at a high level. So as a black belt sparring/fighting junior grades used to mess me up as the ego got in the way. I'd think I had to win anything else was embarrassing. Solution? I let myself loose loads, for months. Now while doing this I worked on specific elements of my game so I was learning but nevertheless I was loosing repeatedly. No one thought I was any good. The pressure to perform and the ego and crap that goes with it melted away.

Ego is a bad thing but confidence is different. If you know yourself inside out then saying you'll look after whatever be it in work or wherever isn't an ego trip it's simply a statement of fact.

Oh definitely Discipline is one of the greatest traits I think someone can have. As you said having no ego simply allows the body and mind to do what it has to do without undue psychological pressure And other things besides. I think/hope that my confidence will continue to fluorish as I work on minimizing the influence of my ego, as I won't have any psychological b.s getting in the way of me doing a good job whatever I'm doing

Sea Filly

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Just find a woman who appreciates a nice man. There are some out there. You shouldn't have to change yourself to appear more attractive to the opposite sex. Feck that! Life's too short. There's nothing worse than a nice guy trying to be a cocky arsehole after reading some PUA material, thinking it will impress the birds. It's too fake.

Exactly, trying to pull of the alpha male thing when you're clearly not one is cringeworthy. Just be relaxed and happy in yourself, many of us are turned off by the alpha male types. Gimme a beta type any day. :pac: