Nice guys finish last?

Millicent

Gongoozler wrote: »

I had a conversation a little while back about what's attractive about ambition, and we concluded that ambition actually equates to money. If you keep asking why to all the answers someone gives when they say 'it's not money, it's drive/passion/security etc'.

Ambition, to me, means the will to better yourself or indulging your passion. It doesn't have to do with money at all.

blacklilly

You could also say the same about women. For instance I'm a nice girl yet I'm single over a yr and a half and in that time I've only really come across "bad boys" whom I've no interest in. I haven't met one nice guy (apart from friends etc) in this time.

tan11ie

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

Something is unrealistic about the statistics in this thread, or we all got different interpretations of what is nice.

Some seem to mistake nice as a doormat.

Wee Willy Harris

"Bastards" finish last.

The guys who are cautious, yet ultimately nice just she never went that far because she took tentative for the cold shoulder!!

..the price of a society that has become too easy.

Bipolar Joe

blacklilly wrote: »

You could also say the same about women. For instance I'm a nice girl yet I'm single over a yr and a half and in that time I've only really come across "bad boys" whom I've no interest in. I haven't met one nice guy (apart from friends etc) in this time.

Why only friends?

I'm at two and a half. I've had plenty of chicks tell me they want a nice guy. Guess who they don't go out with?

I'm not bitter, a little honesty / consistency would be cool, though.










All right, I'm a little bitter.

Shryke

Wompa1 wrote: »

blacklilly wrote: »

Of course attraction is important however in the past I've found myself attracted to men that I wouldn't have originally found attractive. I think its silly to put too much emphasis on looks. I'd hate for someone to consider me as a potential partner on the basis of my looks so I keep an open mind

You're obviously a girl. I have a question for you. Just by my perception girls in their mid 20's and later still seem to be into famous guys to the point where the level of attraction seems obsessive. Posters of guys, having all of an actors movies, watching shows just because of a guy they find attractive etc. Where as with the guys my age that I know. I don't know any of them that would still have posters of women or really give a second thought to any actress, singer etc. Is it all girls that have their crushes on famous guys or just some that still want to be young?

Johnny Depp syndrome. Posters though? I know very few adults of any age that would put a poster on a wall.

Gongoozler

Millicent wrote: »

Ambition, to me, means the will to better yourself or indulging your passion. It doesn't have to do with money at all.

Well, yes that would probably be the definition of ambition to anybody. But what I'm saying is, look at the reason this is important to you. Why does it make a difference to you if your boyfriend indulges his passions/betters himself?

blacklilly

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

blacklilly wrote: »

You could also say the same about women. For instance I'm a nice girl yet I'm single over a yr and a half and in that time I've only really come across "bad boys" whom I've no interest in. I haven't met one nice guy (apart from friends etc) in this time.

Why only friends?

I'm at two and a half. I've had plenty of chicks tell me they want a nice guy. Guess who they don't go out with?

I'm not bitter, a little honesty / consistency would be cool, though.










All right, I'm a little bitter.

Well I could be bitter too but what's the point? Hopefully someday I'll meet my nice guy but it is difficult for women of my age to meet a genuine, nice guy.
Guys my age tend to want to just have fun and are not into relationships, from my experience guys seem to only get serious about relationships when they hit 30+. This may be a generalisation but it is just my experience

tan11ie

Wee Willy Harris wrote: »

"Bastards" finish last.

The guys who are cautious, yet ultimately nice just she never went that far because she took tentative for the cold shoulder!!

..the price of a society that has become too easy.

Nah that's just a wuss!

Bipolar Joe

blacklilly wrote: »

Well I could be bitter too but what's the point? Hopefully someday I'll meet my nice guy but it is difficult for women of my age to meet a genuine, nice guy.
Guys my age tend to want to just have fun and are not into relationships, from my experience guys seem to only get serious about relationships when they hit 30+. This may be a generalisation but it is just my experience

Ditto with chicks. Let's get married.

The Idyll Race

Lads, ask yourself the following questions.

1. Is she hot? The obvious one.

2. Is she a mouth breather? If yes, leave her to the petty crims and spazs that fill this town. You can do better.

3. Is she a clingon? If yes, you wil learn how not to be a nice guy and assert yourself pretty fast and get out of Dodge. That is the secret.

blacklilly

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

blacklilly wrote: »

Well I could be bitter too but what's the point? Hopefully someday I'll meet my nice guy but it is difficult for women of my age to meet a genuine, nice guy.
Guys my age tend to want to just have fun and are not into relationships, from my experience guys seem to only get serious about relationships when they hit 30+. This may be a generalisation but it is just my experience

Ditto with chicks. Let's get married.

On a scale of one to ten how good looking are you?

Bipolar Joe

blacklilly wrote: »

On a scale of one to ten how good looking are you?

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

I hate it when people describe themselves as a "Nice, good looking [gender]". You see it in almost all of the threads in PI. "I am good looking why won't any one love me?" It's OK to say you're ugly, you feckin' munters.

Also, nice guys are usually just another brand of bastard. At least normal bastards will be up front, Nice Guys are sly and often use guilt as a way to get laid.

I'm not nice. I'm not a bastard. I'm just a guy.








And I still can't get a fuckin' girlfriend because I'm ugly as balls.

.

blacklilly

Why do you think you're ugly? Are you comparing yourself with generic popular types?
No one should ever think they're ugly, seriously.

Millicent

Gongoozler wrote: »

Well, yes that would probably be the definition of ambition to anybody. But what I'm saying is, look at the reason this is important to you. Why does it make a difference to you if your boyfriend indulges his passions/betters himself?

Because I have a lot of interests myself and would be bored shitless with someone who didn't. I've gone out with guys that have no interests/ambitions/ideals and we don't relate well. My current boyfriend has ambition at the moment and is studying to achieve his goals. I don't share his interest but I love to listen to him talk about it as it's when he's at his most vivid and animated. That for me is really attractive.

Gongoozler

Millicent wrote: »

Because I have a lot of interests myself and would be bored shitless with someone who didn't. I've gone out with guys that have no interests/ambitions/ideals and we don't relate well. My current boyfriend has ambition at the moment and is studying to achieve his goals. I don't share his interest but I love to listen to him talk about it as it's when he's at his most vivid and animated. That for me is really attractive.

I'm not talking about having interests. You can have interests but not be ambitious.

Why is it a requirement for your boyfriend to be dedicated to achieving goals?

Bipolar Joe

blacklilly wrote: »

Why do you think you're ugly? Are you comparing yourself with generic popular types?
No one should ever think they're ugly, seriously.

It's not so bad knowing you're unattractive. At least I can be honest. I'm not gonna go into detail about the hows of my being a goofy looking chump, but more people should be honest. The world would be a much less depressing place.

blacklilly

Yes but what you may consider to be unattractive may be very attractive to someone else.
I no super model but I'd consider myself attractive, not everyone is going to agree with my self description of being attractive.....but does it sound wrong that I think I'm attractive, crap I've just realised I fancy myself

Bipolar Joe

blacklilly wrote: »

Yes buy what you may consider to be unattractive may be very attractive to someone else.
I no super model but I'd consider myself attractive, not everyone is going to agree with my self description of being attractive.....but does it sound wrong that I think I'm attractive, crap I've just realised I fancy myself

It's the bell curve. Some stuff is considered attractive, some isn't. I got the short end of the stick, I guess?

Millicent

Gongoozler wrote: »

I'm not talking about having interests. You can have interests but not be ambitious.

Why is it a requirement for your boyfriend to be dedicated to achieving goals?

It's not necessarily a requirement but interests are often tied with ambition. I relate to that. My ambitions all relate to my interests in life.

I know that you may be trying to drive at money being the root of that appeal but it's honestly not. I've been the higher earner for the majority of our six-year relationship (including now while my boyfriend's on the Back to Education allowance.)

The King of Moo

Thinking about things as a "nice/not nice" dichotomy is all wrong. It's mostly about confidence, and people mistakenly assume there's a binary opposition between extremes of confident bastards and meek quiet guys, when there's plenty of possibilities in between.
I'd imagine lots of people would prefer a confident partner who still demonstrates kind qualities, and those two are not mutually exclusive.
Just be yourself and have a reasonable amount of self-confidence and whether you're a man or woman, gay or straight, you won't have too many problems.

As long as you're not very ugly.

EdenHazard wrote: »

Some girls give me such a big head 'oh he's so hot' but they are all older, my sisters friends etc. But girls I know don't give me a look, 'he's so cute' ugh

How awful, being described as two different types of good-looking!!

I've never had a girlfriend and have often assumed it to be the "women love bastards" bit, but it's probably that I've feck all confidence.

tan11ie

Karsini wrote: »

I've never had a girlfriend and have often assumed it to be the "women love bastards" bit, but it's probably that I've feck all confidence.

That's more likely it.

EdenHazard

The King of Moo wrote: »

Thinking about things as a "nice/not nice" dichotomy is all wrong. It's mostly about confidence, and people mistakenly assume there's a binary opposition between extremes of confident bastards and meek quiet guys, when there's plenty of possibilities in between.
I'd imagine lots of people would prefer a confident partner who still demonstrates kind qualities, and those two are not mutually exclusive.
Just be yourself and have a reasonable amount of self-confidence and whether you're a man or woman, gay or straight, you won't have too many problems.

As long as you're not very ugly.



How awful, being described as two different types of good-looking!!

Cute is a death sentence! More chance of pulling a girl your crushing on whose called you ugly, than whose called you cute. 'Cute' is like you're their little puppy or plaything. Its the girl being dominant over you.

Red Hand

EdenHazard wrote: »

Cute is a death sentence! More chance of pulling a girl your crushing on whose called you ugly, than whose called you cute. 'Cute' is like you're there little puppy.

Yeah, but sometimes they put puppies on their laps and pet them.

Just don't drool.

Wee Willy Harris

Nice guys don't even get to finish the competition organizers have long since upped sticks and left them in the wilderness, where they discover a monastary. and later wild mushrooms

The King of Moo

EdenHazard wrote: »

Cute is a death sentence! More chance of pulling a girl your crushing on whose called you ugly, than whose called you cute. 'Cute' is like you're their little puppy or plaything. Its the girl being dominant over you.

And there's absolutely nothing you can do about that, which is the greatest tragedy. Worse than poena damni.

It must be awful when people point and stare, and even laugh! in the street, and young children ask "Mummy, what's wrong with that man's face!? He's so... cute!"

starlit

There is nothing wrong with a 'cute' lad or being called 'cute'. I know its the usual for me, nice girl, cute but not much else.

As a girl I rather a fella who is cute than drop dead gorgeous hunk like. As its not realistic. The good looking ones aren't always the nice ones! Cute/above average in looks/average is enough for me, I don't need a good looking fella or a fella that has money and overly confident, if he oozes confidence in a good way and genuine and honest and being himself is enough for me though immaturity is a huge turn off for me, I don't need a good looking lad to make me happy. Sense of humour and a personality is what I prefer. Though even the nicer lads are slow to approach me when I suppose I do go for a rebel types and its hard not too but finding it more difficult to find a nice lad though.

Sala

In think this rubbish. My partner and most of my friends boyfriends are "nice guys". There may be an age issue here as some of the girls went out with arrogant prats when they were young but mid 20s almost everyone found their nice guy. Nice guys aren't doormats nor do they lack ambition - in my opinion a nice guy is caring, treats family and friends like he cares about them and supports them and treats his partner like she extra special, and is an all round good guy. Nice guys are winners!!

Aidric

doovdela wrote: »

I don't need a good looking lad to make me happy.

I need a good looking girl to make me happy. I can't lie. Always suspicious of people who say otherwise.

starlit

Aidric wrote: »

I need a good looking girl to make me happy. I can't lie. Always suspicious of people who say otherwise.

I know what you mean but a good looking lad for me be totally unrealistic but perhaps someone cuter than me yes but on the same wave length but I do have to be attracted/fancy that person and they do the same with me but they don't necessary have to have dashing good looks, cute or handsome is good enough for me! A balance in looks is enough he don't have to be ugly but not drop dead gorgeous, in between is good enough for me cause it be unrealistic for me to end up with someone who is good looking.

Not saying I couldn't score someone out of my league which is possible, I do try to be more open I suppose despite being fussy.

Daveysil15

EdenHazard wrote: »

Cute is a death sentence! More chance of pulling a girl your crushing on whose called you ugly, than whose called you cute. 'Cute' is like you're their little puppy or plaything. Its the girl being dominant over you.

I don't agree with this. A guy could be cute and still have confidence and charisma and be very attractive to women. The pretty boy may not be for everyone, but I'd imagine the pretty boys would do better than the ugly guys.

In Ireland cute has 2 meanings though. You could be just a cute whore, i.e a sly fecker.

Mr Benevolent

doovdela wrote: »

I suppose I do go for a rebel types

There's your problem. Having sex with a Cork man will only end in tears and banjos.

starlit

Confab wrote: »

There's your problem. Having sex with a Cork man will only end in tears and banjos.

lol how did you know I were from Kerry lol! No not cork men. I mean the 'bad boys/ladies men' that type. Tears and banjo's I don't think cork men be like that....banjo's ha ha ha ha. Sex is over-rated.

Millicent

doovdela wrote: »

Sex is over-rated.

Lies!

Mr Benevolent

doovdela wrote: »

Sex is over-rated.

I assume you meant to say 'sex is under-rated'. Sex is many things, but over-rated is not one of them.

Bipolar Joe

If the amount of chicks in this thread did like they said they did, and as a result were representative of the demographic, this thread would not exist.

EDIT: Also, sex is way over rated. It's the cuddling that's the best bit.

Daveysil15

doovdela wrote: »

Sex is over-rated.

It depends on who you're doing it with. If you think its over-rated you're not doing it with the right person.

Zascar

This: http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/lax/483318927.html

starlit

It doesn't matter to me, its not the be it and end all all the time for everyone. Yes suppose having the right person counts.

I have my reasons why its not important to me cause its not an area that matters to me.

Zascar

Zascar wrote: »

This: http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/lax/483318927.html

http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2007/12/16/the-internet-nice-guy-rears-his-ugly-head-once-more/

Daveysil15

Maybe its not the guys been nice that is the problem, maybe they're just meeting too many women who are not nice.

starlit

What about the nice girls? Just as hard for her to find herself a nice lad!? Have to weed them out!?

Daveysil15

Well there seems to be plenty of nice lads who get left on the shelf so maybe the ratios are quite different. I know a few very nice girls who are with complete arseholes.

The King of Moo

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Maybe its not the guys been nice that is the problem, maybe they're just meeting too many women who are not nice.

So would you say a higher proportion of women are not nice than men?

I don't think niceness per se is the problem either, or indeed an unequal distribution of niceness between men and women. There are nice people everywhere.
The problem is that a minority of men think being nice should be enough for women to approach them or accept their clumsy approaches, without taking into account that few people of either gender see niceness in itself as a desirable property.

Most people like a nice person, they often just like that nice person to be reasonably self-confident and perhaps a little charming.

Of course, there's an even smaller minority of men who proclaim themselves to be nice as they don't actively do unkind things to women, but are in fact bitter and angry at women.

1ZRed

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Maybe its not the guys been nice that is the problem, maybe they're just meeting too many women who are not nice.

Nope. That's bullshit.
I notice a lot of guys who are single and spend every waking moment talking about how nice they are and how they should be getting all these girls are the ones who don't put themselves out there, constantly blame girls for being the problem (too bitchy, not nice enough, too intimidating) and are shy and reserved when out and don't seem to try hard enough.

Fair enough you can be a nice guy and not have much luck but feck me, most guys who say that from my experience are lads who need to grow a pair and get on with it instead of whining. But no, they'd rather not put themselves out there with women and stay quiet, but then bitch in my ear about what a catch they are and that women are bitches. Drives me fucking mental.

Daveysil15

I think location plays a part in it. Tbh out of all the places I've been to I've never witnessed the level of contempt towards men that I see in Irish bars and clubs. Our dating/social scene is a joke and I think that makes it difficult for a lot of people to meet someone.

The King of Moo

Daveysil15 wrote: »

I think location plays a part in it. Tbh out of all the places I've been to I've never witnessed the level of contempt towards men that I see in Irish bars and clubs. Our dating/social scene is a joke and I think that makes it difficult for a lot of people to meet someone.

If you include self-loathing in that, I wholeheartedly agree.

shopaholic01

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Maybe its not the guys been nice that is the problem, maybe they're just meeting too many women who are not nice.

Daveysil15, from some of your previous posts it's obvious you have had a bad experience with women. You think we all want a tall, exceptionally good-looking, wealthy man with his own house. You have also stated that you only want a non-Irish national girlfriend.

Going out with that chip on your shoulder is probably the real reason you have difficulty attracting women.

Yes, you will always meet arseholes - male and female, Irish and non-Irish nationals - but don't tar everyone with the same brush.

I had an absolute dickhead of an ex, but I don't belittle and demean all Irish men as a result.

If you approach women with the attitude that she'll never fall for you, you will always be right.

1ZRed is correct, go out and make the effort, but for christ sake, be positive!

Daveysil15

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Daveysil15, from some of your previous posts it's obvious you have had a bad experience with women. You think we all want a tall, exceptionally good-looking, wealthy man with his own house. You have also stated that you only want a non-Irish national girlfriend.

Going out with that chip on your shoulder is probably the real reason you have difficulty attracting women.

Yes, you will always meet arseholes - male and female, Irish and non-Irish nationals - but don't tar everyone with the same brush.

I had an absolute dickhead of an ex, but I don't belittle and demean all Irish men as a result.

If you approach women with the attitude that she'll never fall for you, you will always be right.

1ZRed is correct, go out and make the effort, but for christ sake, be positive!

What makes you think I have difficulty attracting women? Yes I may have a preference for foreign women, (whom I have had success attracting I might add) but I'm not saying I wouldn't date an Irish girl, and I'm not tring to belittle anyone. I'm just saying the dating/social scene here in not great compared to other places I've been to. Location does come into it. I know from experience.