To become a successful commercial photographer

AnCatDubh

My short answer on what you need to become a successful commercial photographer:

In no particular order...

Talent
Hustle
Luck
Patience
Marketing Savy
Social Media Savy
Money management skills
Drive
Focus
Persistance
The desire to become better than yesterday

And most importantly, an extremely unique vision for both your work and your career.

via Jeremy Cowart on facebook;

He also posed a question as to what did he leave out.

In your opinion, do you agree and does that reflect generally in the great photographers (not limiting to commercial) that you come across?

Actually it might be a recipe for success generally now that I think of it.

smash

AnCatDubh wrote: »

Actually it might be a recipe for success generally now that I think of it.

Not really. A lot of the richest people in the world don't have these skills. Look a Zuckerberg, Gates etc.

magicbastarder

i would have thought that zuckerberg and gates do have most of those.

smash

magicbastarder wrote: »

i would have thought that zuckerberg and gates do have most of those.

They have massive teams behind them. On their own, they just had an idea.

magicbastarder

they didn't always.

anyway, being a successful commercial photographer does not necessarily involve being a phenomenal photographer. the first skill is giving the customer what they want.

smash

Is there a particular grade of commercial photographer being discussed here, i.e. events photographer, fashion photographer etc. or do you mean anyone who gets paid to take photos for a living?

OldGoat

The entire list (with the possible exception of talant) is why you hire/marry a good business manager.

Anyone got a link to an eBay shop selling that stuff?

I don't mind having some third-party or generic Patience, Talent or Luck, but I'd rather stick with a reputable UK seller for the rest of the stuff.



:P

AnCatDubh

smash wrote: »

Is there a particular grade of commercial photographer being discussed here, i.e. events photographer, fashion photographer etc. or do you mean anyone who gets paid to take photos for a living?

It just talks commercial photographer - by that I was taking it to be product shoots - cars, models, expensive jewellery, advertorial kinda stuff, advertisements, airplanes, travel, etc.,

OldGoat wrote: »

The entire list (with the possible exception of talant) is why you hire/marry a good business manager.

Yeah, that was the angle on what I was suggesting in terms of general recipe for success.

I would have thought that if you were heading the commercial world the following were necessary to have but not necessary to possess or be personally capable of;

Marketing Savy
Social Media Savy
Money management skills

Hire in the above and concentrate on the remainder attributes.

AnCatDubh

magicbastarder wrote: »

they didn't always.

anyway, being a successful commercial photographer does not necessarily involve being a phenomenal photographer. the first skill is giving the customer what they want.

This is interesting angle. When the lowest common denominator today is a poorly composed facebook uploaded photo taken on a phone with size zero sensor in a dimply lit pub oozing unattractive noise and with the subject off their rocks on drink, I think there is an argument that as the technology is getting more advanced of the kind which goes with you everywhere, that the accepted standard in photography is lessened/lowered.

So, I think you may be right. If the customer thinks the facebook upload is a great photo, then they may be entirely happy a resulting image which in reality doesn't make the grade (of a knowledgeable eye cast over it).

To contradict myself, this probably only 'works' at an individual level and doesn't really translate what i'm gathering is defined as commercial work (works which would have dealings with art directors, project managers, project accountants, etc.)

Hugh_C

Haven't seen mention of social skills - you can't be a plank and expect to have repeat customers - in my line of work (corporate, beauty & fashion) you have to be able to cajole subjects into giving a decent shot and very very often, you have to grit your teeth when clients ask for the impossible by yesterday. This all take s a deal of social skill and confidence in yourself and your abilities.

lisatiffany

Going to dissect it and see if any of that applies to myself ..probably will be a bit off but it looks like a good list


Talent - 10yrs behind cameras? I'd bloody hope so
Hustle - Getting more and more aggressive at securing good gigs etc
Luck - Yay and nay, you can only be lucky for so long and eventually it runs out
Patience - I fall down here, not big on patience I'd rather be getting things done in the now
Marketing Savy - This bleeds into social media because 90% of my work comes through those channels
Social Media Savy - Networking with people is something I excel at so its a great thing to have
Money management skills - Zero, I'm terrible at managing money. My boyfriend does all my invoices
Drive - More and more each day especially if its a quiet month
Focus - Again its a lot like patience, you just need to keep an eye on what you are doing and keep heading in that direction
Persistence - Very important, I never take a "maybe" from clients if they want the work done and are taking too much time confirming it I look into what else is going on the same day so as not to waste time.
The desire to become better than yesterday - Hugely important, I know a lot of photographers think this means buy better gear and glass to get better results but its more about seeing where your weaknesses are and trying to improve on them.

And most importantly, an extremely unique vision for both your work and your career. - It really depends on the type of subject you are working on but it definitely helps seeing things in your own unique way. I've heard many photographers say they have no particular style but that's no reason to limit yourself when it comes to concepts and getting something different out there.

At the end of the day the money management and marketing aspect of the business can be done by someone else and I know very few successful photographers who do their own taxes/paper work etc. It's something that is too much of a distraction and depending on the workload can take away from getting more important work done. Realistically it costs time and money to get all of that work done but if you have to do it yourself then good time management is a huge requirement to really make it big in the business.

lisatiffany

Figured I might expand a little on something that is directly related and drives me a little crazy.

I've had a few bad experiences working for record labels that remind me why some of the above skills are really needed. I love covering gigs and music festivals, not the usual Oxygen and the like, I mean metal and rock festivals like ozzfest and wacken in Germany. It's the most fun gig photography to shoot because you can feel the energy and power of the music not just there and then but in the pictures afterwards. It's also my favorite music genre and I find the bands are some of the most open minded and sound people you'll ever meet. But all that aside there are a number of problems I keep running into and a lot of those skills mentioned come into play. If you are in the pit for 3 songs and want to keep going you have to be damn good with people or security will just haul you out of there, I've been on the 3 song rule with a lot of bands but had a chat with security and got back in for more songs.

Often the pit is full of other photographers who are blood thirsty for shots but only some have the cop on to move and let you shoot from there, they don't want the same angle for the duration of their stay either so having cop on and respect comes into play. When you actually have the pictures and are leaving the pit a lot of the promoters expect you to do a magic act that involves going through them all and not only processing them but sending them off in the space of an hour or so. That means while everyone else is partying and coming down off a great days gigging you are stuck in a room working frantically, often to find out they don't do anything with the pictures until days later. I've worked with some diva models over the years where most of those skills above mentioned were required but I find gig photography requires the most. Even getting to do it in the first place means being good with people and selling yourself as someone who knows what they are doing and can deliver what they say they can deliver. I know you can apply the rules to almost any type of photography but that's where I find they come in most useful.

AnCatDubh

lisatiffany wrote: »

Talent - 10yrs behind cameras? I'd bloody hope so

I'm sure I should not take you literally here, but wouldn't Talent be the natural inbuilt capacity, capability, and instinct that someone has (or lack of).

The other day, I was viewing a photo stream on another Internet site - Some really nice photos, technically incredibly competent, sharpness, nicely processed, but I found I was flicking through them - pausing for a second, yeah nice, and moving on. Until I hit a single photo within the entire stream which was by Sally Mann. Flip it but there was Talent (capital T) which put everything else I had viewed in the ha'penny place.

Perhaps I'm being unfair to the other photographers images which ended up in the same stream as Sally Mann as she is iconic and rightly so. Or maybe not (being unfair). The bar is set for aspiring photographs. Combine it with "The desire to become better than yesterday" and "an extremely unique vision for both your work and your career" and perhaps that brings you to a place near Sally Mann (only using her as it is the example i used earlier)

I think the time factor brings technical capability but talent is the difference between being able to produce nice photos and great photographs.

lisatiffany

I think the time factor brings technical capability but talent is the difference between being able to produce nice photos and great photographs.

I totally agree with that I just mean I wouldn't stay with it if I didn't think somewhere down the line I had talent for what I was doing. Again I think the luck factory feeds off of this, you can get lucky and have some good shoots fall into your lap but if you mess them up and don't deliver then the chances are you won't be working in the same circles again because word travels fast. In digital photography time is really a key element because even with the likes of weddings you have to deliver the finished shots in a adequate time frame. I don't know how many photographers will do a shoot or an event that lasts all day long then go home and stay up all night processing the images so they are ready as soon as possible for the client. I found I can't do it any other way, part of it is wanting to see the finished results on screen and another part of it is wanting to satisfy the client without getting buried under and existing workflow.

A friend who works full time in the IT sector was telling me the other day about how his involvement with shoots has affected his full time job and his employers are not happy about it, that's really something I never factored into it. I'd love to say that talent alone will propel you to greatness but realistically there has to be a blend of so many other requirements. You still have to be able to produce interesting and fresh photos to get ahead but having the time to get all of that done can be a bit of a sacrifice in its own right.

lisatiffany

I think the time factor brings technical capability but talent is the difference between being able to produce nice photos and great photographs.

I totally agree with that I just mean I wouldn't stay with it if I didn't think somewhere down the line I had talent for what I was doing. Again I think the luck factory feeds off of this, you can get lucky and have some good shoots fall into your lap but if you mess them up and don't deliver then the chances are you won't be working in the same circles again because word travels fast. In digital photography time is really a key element because even with the likes of weddings you have to deliver the finished shots in a adequate time frame. I don't know how many photographers will do a shoot or an event that lasts all day long then go home and stay up all night processing the images so they are ready as soon as possible for the client. I found I can't do it any other way, part of it is wanting to see the finished results on screen and another part of it is wanting to satisfy the client without getting buried under and existing workflow.

A friend who works full time in the IT sector was telling me the other day about how his involvement with shoots has affected his full time job and his employers are not happy about it, that's really something I never factored into it. I'd love to say that talent alone will propel you to greatness but realistically there has to be a blend of so many other requirements. You still have to be able to produce interesting and fresh photos to get ahead but having the time to get all of that done can be a bit of a sacrifice in its own right.

lisatiffany

humberklog wrote: »

I'd put on a few for the more modern world but these two for now...



An on-line following of 50,000+ (on some crap like MySpace or bebo) is equal to 0.00001 in real life.

You aiming that at anyone in particular humberklog? or just making a statement about photographers in general? online followings do actually lead to work for a lot of modern photographers because by networking you expand your customer base especially if other people in the subjects line of work see it and contact you through there.

The internet is one of the best if not the best platform where a modern photographer can display and secure future work through. People who do use online sites etc to display their work or build contracts don't just limit themselves to the online world. They network with other photographers and media personal offline as well as online. I

f it wasn't then this forum wouldn't even exist because a lot of people on boards depend on the online community for tips and feedback. Are you saying that when they add another photographer or someone they worked with on a shoot then that individual is null and void?.

humberklog

lisatiffany wrote: »

You aiming that at anyone in particular humberklog??.

I haven't read any further in your post than the I bit quoted.

My post wasn't meant for anyone in particular.

challengemaster

Does talent cover knowledge, considering talent could be split into natural and acquired....


Same with everything in life, some people are just talented at something but to go the extra mile you need to have some clue what the hell you're doing. Photography especially - plenty of people might have a good eye for composition, but without the knowledge of how to work the camera, how to light scenarios, how to get the photo you want, it all means nothing.

Also Photoshop is probably one of the more important aspects. Obviously depending on how far up the chain you go, you'll eventually hit a point where the client has their own graphic design / editing guys. I'd actually say in most cases it's more important than the photography part of it.

Diesel

My tupence worth;
Missing from the list is;
Contacts....not necessarily the same as social media skills. Contacts drop buisness your direction, and sometimes with more discretion than open forums such as facebook etc. Social media is you pushing your own presence, others push it onwards. In my opinion, a subtle but important difference.
Self belief...balanced with customers needs. Get the balance right and arrogance is stayed but respect is enhanced.
A good eye... all the technical gear and photoshop won't replace an instinct and understanding of what 'makes' a good image.

Borderfox

Luck will only take you so far and by then you should know where to be whether thats on a shoot or the direction you want to go in with the business.