billion barrel oil find confirmed off Cork coast, we got nothing?

zing zong

According to http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/barryroe-billion-barrel-oil-find-confirmed-off-cork-coast-3179875.html

Billions of barrels of oil found, where the company were originally expecting only millions. The article says that the state, i.e. us, will get corporate tax rate of 25% and "investment".

This strikes me as BS as all big companies pay corporate tax (regardless of the rate), the question is, what do we get for them selling OUR resources? does anyone know if we get a % of the profit or what is the arrangement?

a % of the sale of billions of barrels ain't exactly peanuts!

Sleepy

25% of the corporate profit is our cut. The company don't just wave a wand and fill the barrels without any cost to themselves, tbh, 25% of the profit for 0% of the risk sounds like a reasonable enough deal to me...

Of course we'll also get more tax from them for on every person they hire (and those people's PAYE and PRSI), VAT on their purchases, increased corporate and employment related taxes from companies that supply to them and their workers and of course, this should lead to a few people coming off the live register.

Im sure we'll find a way to get 0% from it,
were guaranteed to **** ourselves over

KindOfIrish

We are rich again!!!!:D

zing zong

nonsense

even google pay 25% corporate tax, but they don't use *OUR* resources to make said profit

is it any wonder Norway think we are hilarious fools!

everdead.ie

25% is the minimum tax rate that will be charged however there are a two things to be noted.

1. They can write off any exploration costs against tax.
2. 25% can increase to 40% depending on the profitability of the field.

Also they won't recover a billion barrells of Oil as some ofit won't be recoverable.

If we take back our fishing rights and nationalize this new-found oil wealth we could be the kings of the sardine industry. Power to the people!



:rolleyes:

zing zong

all the same, does any one know any of the actual details of whatever arrangements we have with this company?

zing zong

everdead.ie wrote: »

25% is the minimum tax rate that will be charged however there are a two things to be noted.

1. They can write off any exploration costs against tax.
2. 25% can increase to 40% depending on the profitability of the field.

Also they won't recover a billion barrells of Oil as some ofit won't be recoverable.

can you point me to where I can read more on this increase to 40%? thanks

smcgiff

zing zong wrote: »

nonsense

even google pay 25% corporate tax

You might want to keep that quiet, I'd say Google themselves would be of the belief they pay a lot less.

everdead.ie

I found a bit from Reuters where they think about 160m barrels are recoverable and this could be revised upwards after further tests or tech advancements.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/25/providence-resources-idUSL6E8IOID820120725

brianb10

why not let them explore and get as much oil as possible and then if it turns out we have a decent supply we could seize and nationalize it like argentina did with Repsol

everdead.ie

zing zong wrote: »

can you point me to where I can read more on this increase to 40%? thanks

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/raise-taxes-on-oil-companies-profits-report-3103834.html

Here it's called a PRRT tax of up to 15% but naturally now we have proved we have oil everyone wants to increase the tax take but that wouldn't count for this find only on future licences handed out.

itzme

zing zong wrote: »

can you point me to where I can read more on this increase to 40%? thanks

A quick search found this siptu document talking mentioning it, didn't see a more official document here
This was a decent debate between Fintan O'Toole, Rabbitte and another labour councillor
here

ardmacha

The point about this oil find was that it was somewhat unexpected. You can't get people to prospect for oil where finding it is unexpected if you are going to seize all of the profits from finding such oil. In the future you may be able to propose different arrangements and still have people willing to search for oil.

zing zong

smcgiff wrote: »

You might want to keep that quiet, I'd say Google themselves would be of the belief they pay a lot less.

correction, they pay 20%

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2011/mar/24/google-ireland-tax-reasons-bermuda?CMP=twt_gu

zing zong

brianb10 wrote: »

why not let them explore and get as much oil as possible and then if it turns out we have a decent supply we could seize and nationalize it like argentina did with Repsol

because this nation is run by clowns I would imagine even though I reckon thats a great idea

I am pie

I look forward to the crusty brigade decamping to Cork and demanding we get 100% of the revenue for 0% of the cost.

bbam

Didn't this company announce at the time of the oil find that they would employ NO Irish workers when oil extraction starts.
Also I think the deal is similar to the shell corroborate deal where yes they pay tax but only after every single cost for the set up and extraction has been recovered from profits. I read that it could take five years after full production has been achieved before a cent is paid to the state.

We must be a laughing stock. Right we can't afford to develop the fields ourselves at the moment, surely this means we leave them sit until we get organised rather than essentially give them away.

We have a choice. Give away these resources and hope to sell sandwiches to the workers or get our **** together and start developing an energy sector. Wind, gas and oil. We could build a decent economy. But we won't because the country is ran by a bunch of failed teachers and local parish pump politics.

Surely the money from the pension reserve would be better spent on this rather than on more roads and better garda stations.

LeinsterDub

brianb10 wrote: »

why not let them explore and get as much oil as possible and then if it turns out we have a decent supply we could seize and nationalize it like argentina did with Repsol

So that works maybe the once and everyone else says don't do business is Ireland especially don't prospect for resources

everdead.ie

bbam wrote: »

Didn't this company announce at the time of the oil find that they would employ NO Irish workers when oil extraction starts.
Also I think the deal is similar to the shell corroborate deal where yes they pay tax but only after every single cost for the set up and extraction has been recovered from profits. I read that it could take five years after full production has been achieved before a cent is paid to the state.

We must be a laughing stock. Right we can't afford to develop the fields ourselves at the moment, surely this means we leave them sit until we get organised rather than essentially give them away.

We have a choice. Give away these resources and hope to sell sandwiches to the workers or get our **** together and start developing an energy sector. Wind, gas and oil. We could build a decent economy. But we won't because the country is ran by a bunch of failed teachers and local parish pump politics.

Surely the money from the pension reserve would be better spent on this rather than on more roads and better garda stations.

It is the same situation in Norway and other countries exploration costs can be written off against tax but I don't know if your five year timeframe is correct.

We also don't have people with the skills needed to maintain oil wells.

zing zong

ardmacha wrote: »

The point about this oil find was that it was somewhat unexpected. You can't get people to prospect for oil where finding it is unexpected if you are going to seize all of the profits from finding such oil. In the future you may be able to propose different arrangements and still have people willing to search for oil.

the trouble I have with that is its a bit like saying to somebody to come to your house, have a look about, if you find anything you get to keep it, after all you did look around

the point is, no matter how the resource was found or sought, there was already a reasonable expectation to find some amount of oil, regardless of how much.

so they put in the risk and expense of searching for the oil, all well and good, what do they get for it? well they get to sell it for profit.

they get the privilege of selling *our* oil, if anything they should get 25% and we get the rest, it is ours after all

again, the Norwegians are having a great laugh at how we manage our resources you can be sure of that

bbam

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So that works maybe the once and everyone else says don't do business is Ireland especially don't prospect for resources

Do you think.
It's funny but when you
Start pumping that black gold out of a hole in the ground everyone wants to be your friend. Do you think all the energy companies want to do business in the middle east just to clock up their air miles. The man with oil is king, and considering this country hasn't a cent in the pisss pot we should grow a pair and start exploiting it.
A bit of wheeling and dealing is needed. The oil conglomerate who pays off our debt mountain gets to drill free for ten years tax free. Bet they'd be queuing up for it.

Sleepy

bbam wrote: »

they pay tax but only after every single cost for the set up and extraction has been recovered from profits. I read that it could take five years after full production has been achieved before a cent is paid to the state

Income - Costs = Profits.

Some of those costs may be large initial ones which will have been financed. Once all those costs are covered the company starts to make profits. Prior to that, they're just making payments against their financing.

everdead.ie

zing zong wrote: »

the trouble I have with that is its a bit like saying to somebody to come to your house, have a look about, if you find anything you get to keep it, after all you did look around

the point is, no matter how the resource was found or sought, there was already a reasonable expectation to find some amount of oil, regardless of how much.

so they put in the risk and expense of searching for the oil, all well and good, what do they get for it? well they get to sell it for profit.

they get the privilege of selling *our* oil, if anything they should get 25% and we get the rest, it is ours after all

again, the Norwegians are having a great laugh at how we manage our resources you can be sure of that

Sure if when you come into my house you pay me a licence fee to look around and then spend Millions trying to find something

everdead.ie

bbam wrote: »

Do you think.
It's funny but when you
Start pumping that black gold out of a hole in the ground everyone wants to be your friend. Do you think all the energy companies want to do business in the middle east just to clock up their air miles. The man with oil is king, and considering this country hasn't a cent in the pisss pot we should grow a pair and start exploiting it.
A bit of wheeling and dealing is needed. The oil conglomerate who pays off our debt mountain gets to drill free for ten years tax free. Bet they'd be queuing up for it.

No where in the middle east has ever nationalised an oil company though they play by the rules set at the beginning.

You come in take the oil we take 50% it's all set out at the begining not to mention they also bend over backwards to let the oil companies explore wherever they want.

touts

Even if we nationalised the find and took 100% in tax it would all go on the bank reparations to repay German investors gambling losses. Long term the profits from this oil will build more schools in Germany than in Ireland so I say **** them and let corporations take it all.

I am pie

zing zong wrote: »

the trouble I have with that is its a bit like saying to somebody to come to your house, have a look about, if you find anything you get to keep it, after all you did look around

the point is, no matter how the resource was found or sought, there was already a reasonable expectation to find some amount of oil, regardless of how much.

so they put in the risk and expense of searching for the oil, all well and good, what do they get for it? well they get to sell it for profit.

they get the privilege of selling *our* oil, if anything they should get 25% and we get the rest, it is ours after all

again, the Norwegians are having a great laugh at how we manage our resources you can be sure of that

1. Oil Companies pay a fortune to explore our oil fields. They don't turn up and have a look around.

2. If we followed your pricing model, there would be €0.00 tax from oil in this country, because it would not be commercially viable. Oil companies need profit as an incentive to operate. What's better 0% or 25% of profit

3. If they had bothered reading it, the Norwegians would be laughing at your simplistic example. They have abundant resources, discovery is less of a risk, hence a higher premium is paid. Discovery in ireland is comes with the risk of discovering nothing, therefore an incentive is required to get companies to come look for the oil at their expense on the basis that they will make a decent profit from it, as will we.

Talk of 75% tax would simply mean we would never get the oil out of the ground.

PS....no, we don't have the money to set up our own exploration company nor would it be wise to take the risk of wasting money on not discovering oil onto the national balance sheet.

Dose of reality required here.

bbam

Sleepy wrote: »

Income - Costs = Profits.

Some of those costs may be large initial ones which will have been financed. Once all those costs are covered the company starts to make profits. Prior to that, they're just making payments against their financing.

It's a bad deal.
This is a one off gig for ireland and these companies need access to ye reserves. They should pay a dividend on every barrel pumped right from the first. We need the money now. By the time they cover their asses it will take years and by then well be broke (or just more broke). And they could claim the well is finishe and not viable to pump further, cap it off and then strike another golden deal with yet another idiot minister who's only qualification is as a teacher or an agricultural green cert.

ardmacha

the Norwegians are having a great laugh at how we manage our resources you can be sure of that

So if Ireland is such a great deal, compared to Norway, why is Norway full of producing oil fields while Ireland has none?

ArmaniJeanss

zing zong wrote: »

there was already a reasonable expectation to find some amount of oil, regardless of how much.

~140 fields explored in 40 years, 5 commercial hits.

Your definition of 'reasonable expectation' may differ to mine.

everdead.ie

bbam wrote: »

It's a bad deal.
This is a one off gig for ireland and these companies need access to ye reserves. They should pay a dividend on every barrel pumped right from the first. We need the money now. By the time they cover their asses it will take years and by then well be broke (or just more broke). And they could claim the well is finishe and not viable to pump further, cap it off and then strike another golden deal with yet another idiot minister who's only qualification is as a teacher or an agricultural green cert.

Why would they do that they would only recover their exploration costs and make no money for them selves that's ridiculous.

Tipp Man

bbam wrote: »

It's a bad deal.
This is a one off gig for ireland and these companies need access to ye reserves. They should pay a dividend on every barrel pumped right from the first. We need the money now. By the time they cover their asses it will take years and by then well be broke (or just more broke). And they could claim the well is finishe and not viable to pump further, cap it off and then strike another golden deal with yet another idiot minister who's only qualification is as a teacher or an agricultural green cert.

This oil find (or any for that matter) should have nothing to do with the state of the country's finances

And the terms by which we sell the licences should not be determined by how broke we are - this should only be seen as a potential bonus which might help in getting us sorted a little quicker. If we start thinking we are the new middle east then we'll be back to 2001-2007 before we know it

I'm a long way from being an expert on exploration but as far as i am aware finding large reserves in Ireland is like finding a needle in a haystack - finding large reserves in Norway is like finding a needle in a sowing basket. This surely puts the Norwegians in a much much stronger bargaining position when they are sellings licences

golden lane

teachers etc......you get experts for advice, when it comes to something like oil exploration you have to pay for the best advisors.....ie. consultants.....

there has to be an exploration department in the government.....

Tipp Man

I have also never understood why people get so hot and bothered by "OUR" reserves being "given" away

Has anything of any kind of note been found in the last 40 years which has been worth getting bothered about? I can't think of anything or any find which i have thought wow this country has lost 100 billion by giving away its oil cheap

Also haven't we actually only sold something like 10% of the licences that we could sell? 90 out of 900 or something?

Dirk Gently

Is this real oil or the increase my share price kind of oil.

ArmaniJeanss

Tipp Man wrote: »

Also haven't we actually only sold something like 10% of the licences that we could sell? 90 out of 900 or something?

I believe just 15 of the 996 fields on offer were licensed for exploration in the last alleged 'giveaway' auction, so 981 remaining.

antoobrien

zing zong wrote: »

even google pay 25% corporate tax, but they don't use *OUR* resources to make said profit

Google pay the 12.5% CT rate, the 25% is a special rate for exploration.

zing zong wrote: »

can you point me to where I can read more on this increase to 40%? thanks

This should be licensed under the new terms published in 2007.

There will be 25% paid on operational profits, which will include a portion of the capital cost (the capital costs of programmes are not written off instantly because that would scare the crap out of shareholders - and is not tax efficient at any rate).

The new licensing terms include a profit resource rent tax. This new tax will be in addition to the 25% corporate tax rate currently employed. It will operate on a graded basis of profitability as follows:

an additional 15% tax in respect of fields where the profit ratio* exceeds 4.5
an additional 10% where the profit ratio is between 3.0 and 4.5
an additional 5% where the profit ratio is between 1.5 and 3.0
no change where the profit ratio is less than 1.5
On our most profitable fields, therefore, the return to the State will increase from 25% to 40%.


* Profit ratio is defined as rate of profits less 25% corporate tax divided by the accumulated level of capital investment.

Ireland’s new fiscal regime is a model of tax-take based on two separate taxes and is a common model used in many other countries in the petroleum production sector. It is similar to that used by the UK, Denmark, Norway and in German Länder

Scofflaw

Dirk Gently wrote: »

Is this real oil or the increase my share price kind of oil.

Providence's record for finding providential oil is impressive when you consider just their announcements of the reserves they've determined - rather more impressive, perhaps, than their record for actually pumping oil.

The sceptical might consider the fact that Tony O'Reilly owns both Providence oil, who are announcing this "full-bodied claret" of a field, and the Indo, where this impressive find is being touted - and where, indeed, many other impressive estimates of oil have been announced by Providence.

cordially,
Scofflaw

antoobrien

Scofflaw wrote: »

Providence's record for finding providential oil is impressive when you consider just their announcements of the reserves they've determined - rather more impressive, perhaps, than their record for actually pumping oil.

The sceptical might consider the fact that Tony O'Reilly owns both Providence oil, who are announcing this "full-bodied claret" of a field, and the Indo, where this impressive find is being touted - and where, indeed, many other impressive estimates of oil have been announced by Providence.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Sorry to burst the conspiracy theory but the IT have something similar.

Irish exploration group Providence Resources said today its Barryroe oilfield off the south coast of Ireland may be four times bigger than originally anticipated.

In a statement to the Stock Exchange, the company said it now estimated the oilfield contained between 1 and 1.6 billion barrels of oil.

The latest assessment is based on data from six oil wells drilled on Barryroe together with 3D seismic data alongside other regional data.

Drilling at Barryroe, off the Cork coast, had indicated that it contains commercial quantities of both crude oil and natural gas, the company said.

Providence, which is listed on the Dublin's ESM and the AIM in London, owns 80 per cent of the field and intends bringing in a partner to develop it.

Chief executive Tony O’Reilly said: “We are delighted to be in a position to provide such a significant increase in the Barryroe oil in place resources.”

“It is clear that Barryroe is a substantial oil accumulation across multiple stacked horizons with much running room for further resource growth.”

Providence also expects to begin exploratory drilling in its Dalkey Island licence area in the Irish Sea later this year. It has already applied for a foreshore permit.

Besides isn't Dennis O'Brien in the middle of a power struggle with O'Reilly's over INM?

Scofflaw

antoobrien wrote: »

Sorry to burst the conspiracy theory but the IT have something similar.



Besides isn't Dennis O'Brien in the middle of a power struggle with O'Reilly's over INM?

Sure - my point is that O'Reilly is adept at using his media clout to boost Providence's share price, and that the estimate by Providence shouldn't be taken uncritically in any sense, because Providence are a small operator whose m.o. is selling on fields to oil majors with the expertise and resources to develop them, and who aim to boost their share price on buzz rather than production. The article in the Indo reads like a puff piece because it is a puff piece - the company's claims are treated pretty much as facts, as compared to the IT's piece, where they are treated very much as claims.

As such, I'd wait until I saw an estimate from one of the oil majors before I viewed it as anything like firm (although they too have an interest in puffing their finds).

cordially,
Scofflaw

antoobrien

Scofflaw wrote: »

Sure - my point is that O'Reilly is adept at using his media clout to boost Providence's share price, and that the estimate by Providence shouldn't be taken uncritically in any sense, because Providence are a small operator whose m.o. is selling on fields to oil majors with the expertise and resources to develop them, and who aim to boost their share price on buzz rather than production. The article in the Indo reads like a puff piece because it is a puff piece - the company's claims are treated pretty much as facts, as compared to the IT's piece, where they are treated very much as claims.

As such, I'd wait until I saw an estimate from one of the oil majors before I viewed it as anything like firm (although they too have an interest in puffing their finds).

cordially,
Scofflaw

Not for a second saying to take it at face value (who besides the organisers actually believes Galway had 900,000 people passing through the race village for the volvo ocean race) but the amount of scepticism is a bit...Irish (i.e. f**k it, it can't be that good he must be lying).

Reuters have a bit on it, mentioning an analyst not included in the Irish articles

Analysts at brokerage Liberum had estimated that the flagship Barryroe project could contain around 1 billion barrels oil in place and more than 160 mmb in recoverable oil.

"If developed at $15/bbl with Irish fiscal terms, (this) would be worth around 1,500p per share," said the analysts in a note ahead of Wednesday's announcement.

It also mentions the fact that

Providence will have to partner with a larger player at some stage to fund further developments at Barryroe, one of its six drilling programmes.

smcgiff

zing zong wrote: »

correction, they pay 20%

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2011/mar/24/google-ireland-tax-reasons-bermuda?CMP=twt_gu

The technically term for the rate of tax Google pay in Ireland I think is "buttons"

I hope the journalist that wrote that article isn't qualified in finance. How he came up with a 20% figure is secondary school level.

Google pay 12.5% on profit under deferred tax rules. In the year the journalist is looking at it's 20% of that year's profit, next year it could be 10%.

Btw, bad example. Google paid less than 10m on profits of more than 5 billion!

zing zong

I am pie wrote: »

1. Oil Companies pay a fortune to explore our oil fields. They don't turn up and have a look around.

2. If we followed your pricing model, there would be €0.00 tax from oil in this country, because it would not be commercially viable. Oil companies need profit as an incentive to operate. What's better 0% or 25% of profit

3. If they had bothered reading it, the Norwegians would be laughing at your simplistic example. They have abundant resources, discovery is less of a risk, hence a higher premium is paid. Discovery in ireland is comes with the risk of discovering nothing, therefore an incentive is required to get companies to come look for the oil at their expense on the basis that they will make a decent profit from it, as will we.

Talk of 75% tax would simply mean we would never get the oil out of the ground.

PS....no, we don't have the money to set up our own exploration company nor would it be wise to take the risk of wasting money on not discovering oil onto the national balance sheet.

Dose of reality required here.

1. that is a risk *they* take, if they spend a fortune searching and find nothing that is *their* problem, the reason they take the risk is the potential of finding and selling oil, thats business. if you don't put in, you don't get out, simple.

2. If I were to propose a pricing model, it would be that we get 75% of the profits, the resource is ours after all. as you say correctly, profit is the incentive, so *they* get 25%, which of course is better than nothing.

3. again, any risk is the companies risk, not our problem, not yours and not mine. our problem is getting shafted on the price we get for something which already belongs to us.

you seem to think that we are being done a favour, and that type of attitude seems to be everywhere in Ireland theses days its sad to say

we got a bad deal (as usual) and we are taking it (as usual)

zing zong

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

~140 fields explored in 40 years, 5 commercial hits.

Your definition of 'reasonable expectation' may differ to mine.

they would have gone in with a reasonable expectation, *how* reasonable is up to them, its their money, if they loose out, not our problem, but that doesn't justify us getting a bad deal if that is what you are implying?

Dave!

zing zong wrote: »

1. that is a risk *they* take, if they spend a fortune searching and find nothing that is *their* problem, the reason they take the risk is the potential of finding and selling oil, thats business. if you don't put in, you don't get out, simple.

2. If I were to propose a pricing model, it would be that we get 75% of the profits, the resource is ours after all. as you say correctly, profit is the incentive, so *they* get 25%, which of course is better than nothing.

3. again, any risk is the companies risk, not our problem, not yours and not mine. our problem is getting shafted on the price we get for something which already belongs to us.

you seem to think that we are being done a favour, and that type of attitude seems to be everywhere in Ireland theses days its sad to say

we got a bad deal (as usual) and we are taking it (as usual)

The risk is "our" problem, because if we used your insane model nobody would bother exploring in Ireland, and "our" oil would remain "ours", deep under "our" sea!

Scofflaw

antoobrien wrote: »

Not for a second saying to take it at face value (who besides the organisers actually believes Galway had 900,000 people passing through the race village for the volvo ocean race) but the amount of scepticism is a bit...Irish (i.e. f**k it, it can't be that good he must be lying).

Heh - well, it doesn't do me any harm to be sceptical, I think, nor does it do Providence any harm! But, yes, I'm very sceptical about small Irish exploration company announcements, because having been close to the industry I'm aware how many of them are essentially puff aimed at boosting share prices. That's not to say there's nothing behind them at all (which would be fraudulent) but that timing and estimates are malleable, and are generally positioned with rather more attention paid to their stock market effects than to the technical reliability of the estimates.

antoobrien wrote: »

Reuters have a bit on it, mentioning an analyst not included in the Irish articles

It also mentions the fact that

That'll be Liberum who are Providence's joint broker?

http://www.lse.co.uk/share-regulatory-news.asp?shareprice=PVR&ArticleCode=i4g931ya&ArticleHeadline=Providence_Resources_plc__Appointment_of_Liberum

cordially,
Scofflaw

zing zong

antoobrien wrote: »

Google pay the 12.5% CT rate, the 25% is a special rate for exploration.

I already corrected that in an earlier post, they pay 20% rather than 25%, still much higher than 12.5%

antoobrien

Scofflaw wrote: »

Heh - well, it doesn't do me any harm to be sceptical, I think, nor does it do Providence any harm! But, yes, I'm very sceptical about small Irish exploration company announcements, because having been close to the industry I'm aware how many of them are essentially puff aimed at boosting share prices. That's not to say there's nothing behind them at all (which would be fraudulent) but that timing and estimates are malleable, and are generally positioned with rather more attention paid to their stock market effects than to the technical reliability of the estimates.



That'll be Liberum who are Providence's joint broker?

http://www.lse.co.uk/share-regulatory-news.asp?shareprice=PVR&ArticleCode=i4g931ya&ArticleHeadline=Providence_Resources_plc__Appointment_of_Liberum

cordially,
Scofflaw

Well I'll just have to buy some of their stock then;)

zing zong

Scofflaw wrote: »

Providence's record for finding providential oil is impressive when you consider just their announcements of the reserves they've determined - rather more impressive, perhaps, than their record for actually pumping oil.

The sceptical might consider the fact that Tony O'Reilly owns both Providence oil, who are announcing this "full-bodied claret" of a field, and the Indo, where this impressive find is being touted - and where, indeed, many other impressive estimates of oil have been announced by Providence.

cordially,
Scofflaw

great point actually

itzme

zing zong wrote: »

1. that is a risk *they* take, if they spend a fortune searching and find nothing that is *their* problem, the reason they take the risk is the potential of finding and selling oil, thats business. if you don't put in, you don't get out, simple.

2. If I were to propose a pricing model, it would be that we get 75% of the profits, the resource is ours after all. as you say correctly, profit is the incentive, so *they* get 25%, which of course is better than nothing.

3. again, any risk is the companies risk, not our problem, not yours and not mine. our problem is getting shafted on the price we get for something which already belongs to us.

you seem to think that we are being done a favour, and that type of attitude seems to be everywhere in Ireland theses days its sad to say

we got a bad deal (as usual) and we are taking it (as usual)

Right now there has not been a barrel of Irish oil sold (I'm open to correction here) anywhere. All the talk about billions or trillions of barrels right now is just that talk.
To put it simply, until someone actually pumps oil and enough of it out of irish waters to make that company some profit then the tax rate should be, as it is, lower than average to incentivise companies to explore the oceans for oil. Remember all those companies that haven't found oil have done us a favour, we haven't spent a penny and now know where not to look in future! Once oil is pumped then we can (and should) start increasing the tax rate and seeing how we can make more money off the oil.