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Association of Body Modification Artists In Ireland (ABMAI)
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25-07-2012 4:37pmMembers of this forum should consider supporting this association. As their logo says "Your Health, Your Choice":eek:
"The Association of Body Modification Artists in Ireland is committed to the promotion, advancement, health and safety, education and dissemination of information about body modification. Its members have agreed to a code of ethics, practices and procedures and to uphold Professional Standards of the Association and duty of care towards clients.
We aim to foster and promote education, health and safety as they relate to our industry..."
http://www.ABMAI.org
http://www.facebook.com/#/ABMAIreland1
Comments
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There is no legislation in Ireland for body modifications in Ireland. Which is shocking. There doesn't seem to be any traction gained for getting it raised either!
The above is something that tattoo artists and piercers can voluntarily sign up for/to, but at the end of the day, it comes down to their own standards.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 10129
This is a great idea whether it will make any inroads to actual legislation is another thing though.
Good to see some well respected artists signed up to it though.0 -
DamoElDiablo wrote: »There is no legislation in Ireland for body modifications in Ireland. Which is shocking. There doesn't seem to be any traction gained for getting it raised either!
Personally, as a tattooer, I'm glad there's no legislation in a way.
I'm saying this because I don't particularly want a bunch of people with no tattoos and no clue about tattooing to be telling tattooers and studios what they should and shouldn't be doing.
The negatives would heavily outweigh the positives on something like this.
Internal regulation and education is the only way to go about things.0 -
Pauleeeeeeee wrote: »Personally, as a tattooer, I'm glad there's no legislation in a way.
I'm saying this because I don't particularly want a bunch of people with no tattoos and no clue about tattooing to be telling tattooers and studios what they should and shouldn't be doing.
Wait, you mean you haven't heard about the tattoo on Enda's ....:eek:
I'm joking of course but who's to say what tattoos or piercings any of them might have that they keep private for fear of how it might be perceived by their constituents. Could you not just see some of them spending their Saturday nights in gimp outfits?:D
I would hope that should they ever decide to legislate that they would have a consultation period with those in the industry, and not just bang out a law with no real discussion on it in spite of public discontent (a certain copyright law springs to mind:rolleyes:), but sadly there are no guarantees that such a sensible approach would be used.:(
TBH when I first saw that link and post I was thinking phishing/troll:o but I clicked it anyway since the url behind it matched the text, when I saw the list of artists I was pleasantly surprised:). Hopefully it will grow and all will benefit from the sharing of ideas and information.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 10129
Pauleeeeeeee wrote: »Personally, as a tattooer, I'm glad there's no legislation in a way.
I'm saying this because I don't particularly want a bunch of people with no tattoos and no clue about tattooing to be telling tattooers and studios what they should and shouldn't be doing.
The negatives would heavily outweigh the positives on something like this.
Internal regulation and education is the only way to go about things.
Im on the other side of the argument.I think the industry needs legislation with regards to health and safety/infection control and the tattooing/piercing of underage kids..
Self regulation is all well and good but there will always be the dodgy shops that wont self regulate and will stick two fingers up to the likes of what this ABMAI are trying to do.
In these cases there needs to be a law or laws to govern these dodgy shops.0 -
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Pauleeeeeeee wrote: »Personally, as a tattooer, I'm glad there's no legislation in a way.
Yes, I went there, and yes, I believe there is a need for legislation.0 -
Hi Everyone,
Glad to see that we have a few people talking about us. Just to give you some information about us. ABMAI launched at the Dublin Tattoo Convention in March 2012. We've had a very good reaction from both artists and the public. What we need now is to get you, the clients, asking your artists if they are members of ABMAI and if not, why not. So, you're asking yourself, why should I want my artist to be a member. The best way to get an answer to that question is to visit our website, www.abmai.org and see what we're about. In the meanwhile here is a little taster.
The Code of Ethics of ABMAI- Members are to maintain high professional standards consistent with sound practices.
- Members are to conduct business relationships in a manner that is fair to all.
- Members will promote professionalism in the body modification industry without discrimination against any fellow member's background.
- Members will further the interests of the Association and encourage cooperation throughout the body modification industry.
- Members will refrain from any immoral or unethical behavior in their business dealings.
- Members will strive to participate in continuing education to upgrade and improve their knowledge and skills.
- Members understand they must be in compliance with any regulations and guidelines as they apply to the body modification industry.
- Members will comply with the Professional Standards of the Association.
- Members will make no false or misleading statements to the public in their advertisements, brochures, or consultation materials regarding the process of body modifications.
- Members will ensure the integrity, safety, and security of client records. Client records will not be share except with the written consent of the client.
- Members will promote the continuing development of their industry. They will encourage membership in the Association, support research endeavors, foster educational advancement and advocate for appropriate legislative actions.
- Members will continually seek out new and effective approaches to enhance their professional abilities.
0 - Members are to maintain high professional standards consistent with sound practices.
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Because you get to tattoo young children "like their mommy" in a backstreet shack that you don't think has electricity...?
:rolleyes:
My shop takes a scanned copy of everyone's ID.
There's plenty of countries that do have government regulation. It still hasn't stopped massive amounts of underage tattooing done by scratchers and crappy studios.
And there's plenty of clean studios that check for ID and those studios still put out absolute fúckin' garbage tattoos and piercings.0 -
Pauleeeeeeee wrote: »There's plenty of countries that do have government regulation. It still hasn't stopped massive amounts of underage tattooing done by scratchers and crappy studios.
And there's plenty of clean studios that check for ID and those studios still put out absolute fúckin' garbage tattoos and piercings.
The above is true, but what regulation does do is provide legal recourse to take action against those studios/tattooers/piercers, and provide grounds to shut them down.*
*above assuming that the legislation that is formed/put in place is one that is done right0 -
We also believe that internal industry regulation is preferable to outside regulation. However, where legislation is inevitable, we will seek to co-operate with legislators to ensure that the legislation is fair, logical and enforceable.
It is our understanding that the long awaited publication of the government hepatitis C strategy is imminent. Bearing this in mind we need to show that we are capable on self regulation before we have legislation forced upon us.
Haggling among ourselves will get us nowhere. ABMAI are in a position to represent the industry but we need support from the community to show purpose and solidarity within the profession.0 -
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I don't want to give the impression that I have any opposition to ABMAI or what it's trying to do.
I just hope that people who are ignorant to what actually goes on inside the industry don't start trying to influence how (good) studios handle themselves.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 10129
Pauleeeeeeee wrote: »:rolleyes:
My shop takes a scanned copy of everyone's ID.
There's plenty of countries that do have government regulation. It still hasn't stopped massive amounts of underage tattooing done by scratchers and crappy studios.
No it hasnt.However it does give the customer a comeback under legislation if they are not happy with the service they got.And there's plenty of clean studios that check for ID and those studios still put out absolute fúckin' garbage tattoos and piercings.
But there you have it.This isnt about whether an artist is any use to be honest--Its about customer safety.
Heres an example--There was a thread a few weeks back about a customer that got tattooed in a certain shop.The shop according to this person was filthy,no new needles used etc but they still got inked there.
Now if there was a law that set a certain standard for shops then is that not a good thing??Why should we as customers have to decide if that shop meets our standards before we get tattooed?Why cant all shops have the same standards set in legislation??
Thats all me as a customer wants.I dont want to have to decide if that shop meets my standards--I dont want to have to judge that shops hygiene no matter how good the artist is.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 10129
We also believe that internal industry regulation is preferable to outside regulation.
But I dont.Self regulation doesnt work.It hasnt worked in the past and its not going to work in the future.There are places opening up all over Dublin-every day of the week I see a new shop open.Its too easy for a place to open with no legislation.However, where legislation is inevitable, we will seek to co-operate with legislators to ensure that the legislation is fair, logical and enforceable.
Fair,logical and enforceable for who??The Tattooist or the customer??The UK legislation while it may be quite harsh is working.It is our understanding that the long awaited publication of the government hepatitis C strategy is imminent. Bearing this in mind we need to show that we are capable on self regulation before we have legislation forced upon us.
Again I ask-are you really capapable of enforcing strict hygiene rules to stop the spread of Hep C?I dont think so.I think shops need strict hygiene standards that will be inspected.Haggling among ourselves will get us nowhere. ABMAI are in a position to represent the industry but we need support from the community to show purpose and solidarity within the profession.
I agree with this bit and I fully support any attempt to regulate the industry but I think that ABMAI may be taking on too much with trying to self regulate.
Why not draft a set of standards that can be controlled and try get these standards as agreed by your members set in law.Would that not be better than trying to regulate an industry where anyone can open a shop regardless of their training etc??
Just wanted to add something.
If a shop is already carrying out their service with the highest standards in hygiene etc then they have nothing to fear from legislation.Its only the dodgy ones that would have something to worry about.0 -
Pauleeeeeeee wrote: »My shop takes a scanned copy of everyone's ID.
There's plenty of countries that do have government regulation. It still hasn't stopped massive amounts of underage tattooing done by scratchers and crappy studios.
I'd support legalisation to ensure rules are followed, or the place gets shut down.
As for "self regulation"; if it's not happening now, it won't happen voluntarily!0 -
Well if an artist is very good then they are going to know what they are doing on the health and safety side of things. Hygiene, cross contamination prevention, etc is all relatively easy to learn. That's the easy part of tattooing and body modification. Would take 1 or 2 weeks makes to learn that side of things if you were taught by someone who knows what they were doing.
And regarding your last point, if an artist is very good then they are gonna be clean. The problem obviously lies in the the general populations perception of what a "good" artist is though. You could look all day on facebook at the amount of people that leave "that's aaaaammmmaaaazing" type comments under work that is complete ****e both in terms of technical application and design. Which is where you're argument would come in. So yeh, I suppose it would be nice to have that extra level of certainty about the cleanliness of a studio. It still won't stop ****e tattoos and piercings happening everywhere though.
People need to be educated on what makes a good tattoo. When they are educated in that they'll stop accepting ****e work (not everyone though, because some people will never want to spend more than €50 on a tattoo) and they can put their mind at ease.
If there's legislation that's put in place that's along the lines of:
-autoclave must be checked regularly to be working correctly
-single use needles
-proper disposal of waste
...etc
I'll have no problem with that. What I'd have a problem with is the potential for the government to be given an inch and them taking a mile resulting in more regulation, and more regulation and more taxes and more bull****, which is what they have a tendency to. In the worst case scenario that kind of thing would just result in the best tattooers in the country closing their shop and just working from home to avoid headaches.
That's probably the main reason ABMAI wanna remain self regulated too.
Anyway, I've made my point so I'll leave it there because It's kinda hard for me to make my point on this without coming across as an overly paranoid, anti government mental case on here haha.
Good luck to the ABMAI anyway. Hopefully whatever they end up doing results in something positive happening.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 10129
Pauleeeeeeee wrote: »If there's legislation that's put in place that's along the lines of:
-autoclave must be checked regularly to be working correctly
-single use needles
-proper disposal of waste
...etc
Thats all I want aswell^^^^
If thats the way the legislation went then Id support ABMAI aswell.And youre right to be completely anti government.Theyre **** out of money at the minute so could potentially tax the fook out of this if they wanted.0 -
I agree with this bit and I fully support any attempt to regulate the industry but I think that ABMAI may be taking on too much with trying to self regulate.
Why not draft a set of standards that can be controlled and try get these standards as agreed by your members set in law.Would that not be better than trying to regulate an industry where anyone can open a shop regardless of their training etc??
We spent months doing research before launching ABMAI and we have already drawn up a set of standards and an audit checklist for our members. (Refer to the code of ethics in first post) Our next job is to get artists to sign to to ABMAI and the public looking for the ABMAI logo in the studios. If you agree with our mission then it's up to you guys to help make it work.
Our website is fairly comprehensive so do take time to have a look. We welcome your feedback. Our standards can be found at:
http://www.abmai.org/standards.html0 -
We spent months doing research before launching ABMAI and we have already drawn up a set of standards and an audit checklist for our members. (Refer to the code of ethics in first post) Our next job is to get artists to sign to to ABMAI and the public looking for the ABMAI logo in the studios. If you agree with our mission then it's up to you guys to help make it work.
Our website is fairly comprehensive so do take time to have a look. We welcome your feedback. Our standards can be found at:
http://www.abmai.org/standards.html
Therein lies the problem. It's all well and good people having the seal of approval, and a nice cert on the wall. But you're relying on people doing homework, and knowing what's best for them. The majority of people that come on here are already taking these steps, or get educated pretty quickly. But you only have to look at the amount of young people queueing up at certain places that have a reputation for being notoriously bad to know that the self regulation won't work, because you don't have the power to shut down those that use shoddy practices.
And I'm sorry Pauleeeeeeee, but being a good tattoo artist and having good hygiene standards do not necessarily go hand in hand. It's just that those that value their work, and have pride in what they do will most likely adhere to best practices.
Having legislation in place will ensure that people can't just decide to open up shop anywhere, with the most basic equipment that they can buy from ebay and without any proper training in sterilization, blood bourne pathogens etc... Sure that stuff can be taught in a week or two, but are scratchers going to take that extra step to ensure that their standards are high? Not unless there are serious penalties otherwise.
Having some places/artists sign up to a self-regulatory body is not going to change anything, as these are the ones that will already have decent standards.0 -
Self regulation is not working. I'm working with disadvantaged youths atm and have seen 14 year olds with proper tattoos, can remember a friend of mine being excited about getting one with her mon at a tattoo party at her house, can even remember one piercer at a convention this year trying to sell a 2 day course in piercing!!
Also maybe its cos I'm on my phone but couldn't see a list of members on the website? Also where does the membership fees go toward? 150 a year for a cert?0 -
DamoElDiablo wrote: »
Having legislation in place will ensure that people can't just decide to open up shop anywhere, with the most basic equipment that they can buy from ebay and without any proper training in sterilization, blood bourne pathogens etc... Sure that stuff can be taught in a week or two, but are scratchers going to take that extra step to ensure that their standards are high? Not unless there are serious penalties otherwise.
Or steal, was there not a robbery at one of the studios (Snakebite I believe?) this year where they nicked the tattoo equipment?:(
Sadly, even were it a legally controlled area I suspect there'd still be some folks who'd go to a dodgy, back-alley-type if it meant that they'd get it done before they turn 18 or if it costs less. Never underestimate human stupidity...:(
It is a difficult situation, but at least with a group like ABMAI those in the industry can try to be organized in lobbying the government, whether it be on getting legislation put in place or should some TD's ambitions exceed his/her knowledge in the area and they produce some poorly thought out legislature on the matter.
Heck if some politician does decide to try which is better:- having them have to call umpteen different studios to talk to the staff and probably just going with whatever the first one tells them and not bothering to call any others
- or having an organization they could be directed to which could deliver a more considered response instead of just any one person's feelings on the matter.
Those "tattoo parties" worry me...:(
Firstly I just can't shake the sense of there being a much higher risk of cross-contamination, then there's the general hygiene problem (your kitchen may be clean enough to eat in but I don't think you'd want to have surgery there), and of course there's the question of proper disposal of the used needles. Used needles are not something you should just throw in the domestic trash.:mad:
Even if the "hireling" brings the used items with them, then how did they store them for transport? Is there a risk that those used needles are contaminating unused ones in their gear? What about the motorised unit, is that potentially contaminating stuff in their bag that they will go on to use on someone else? This all of course assumes that they even bother to deal with proper cleaning and disposal once they get back to where-ever they came from.0 -
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As a body piercer who has worked in other countries that have very strict regulations in place I can say that NO form of regulation whether it be from local authority, governmental, european or internal has worked to combat the problem of scratchers. Also just because someone owns a studio does not mean they know anything about hygiene OR are any good at tattooing/piercing/modification!!! I joined the A.B.M.A.I when I first heard about it because I think the only way to combat these concerns is by education CUSTOMERS on the risks. Take away a scratchers/incompetent studio workers income and you are getting to the root of the problem. I know that is really over simplistic but education is the only way forward. It is true that the studio's that have signed up to the Code of Ethics proposed by the A.B.M.A.I are probably the one's that are allready doing things the correct way but it's only from people seeking studio's that have signed up to these guidelines that we can try to get the rest of the industry to participate. Remember there is NO easy solution to the problems in our industry but surely doing something is better that doing nothing at all. I strongly plead with everyone reading this to go on the associations facebook page and share it around. Lets get together for once, stop bickering about whether this will or won't work and TRY to make it work. I know from talking to customers in my studio and showing them the literature we have here about the association that they are extremely positive about it and would like it to succeed. Anyway that's my rant over. Peace !!!0
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Join Date:Posts: 10129
Also where does the membership fees go toward? 150 a year for a cert?
Id like to know where they go aswell.
As arawn says--€150 for a bit paper??
Now if that bit of paper was a Tattooing/Piercing Licence worth €150.00 backed by legislation then Id agree 100% with it.
Ive a question for the user ABMAI.
Has your organisation inspected every members shop on your membership list??Have they gone in and made sure that your recommendations have been followed?
Can you verify that they are using your guidelines 100%??
Or have you just introduced yourselves to artists and taken their fees without doing any of the above??
This quote is from your website.So if you’d like to get your hands on your very own framed membership cert, or even have a chat with us to find out more about who ABMAI are and what we are all about, drop by our stand in the rugby club building (next door to the bar!) and say hi!
We’ll have application forms, new membership certificates and even some of these cool A2 posters for your studio
See the highlighted part--Does that mean any artist can walk into the Middleton convention,pay their fees and get a nice framed certificate on the spot??
If thats the case how can you sign people up without verification??0 -
What about the shops that don't use autoclaves?0
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Id like to know where they go aswell.
As arawn says--€150 for a bit paper??
Now if that bit of paper was a Tattooing/Piercing Licence worth €150.00 backed by legislation then Id agree 100% with it.
Ive a question for the user ABMAI.
Has your organisation inspected every members shop on your membership list??Have they gone in and made sure that your recommendations have been followed?
Can you verify that they are using your guidelines 100%??
Or have you just introduced yourselves to artists and taken their fees without doing any of the above??
This quote is from your website.
So if you'd like to get your hands on your very own framed membership cert, or even have a chat with us to find out more about who ABMAI are and what we are all about, drop by our stand in the rugby club building "next door to the bar!" and say hi!
We'll have application forms, new membership certificates and even some of these A2 posters for your studio
See the highlighted part--Does that mean any artist can walk into the Middleton convention,pay their fees and get a nice framed certificate on the spot??
If thats the case how can you sign people up without verification??
ABMAI is a not for profit organisation. The membership fee ranges from €25 for a temporary membership (for tattoo conventions etc) to €150 for a studio memberships including 2 artists. We are working to make this a cost neutral fee as our members will benefit from discounts which we have negotiated.
Our fees go towards the costs involved in setting up and running the organisation.
Administration- Telephone
- Website/social media upkeep
- Website hosting
- Annual returns.
- Attending conventions
- Certificates and frames
- Postage
- Cost of meetings, i.e. HSE, VEC,AGM's, board meetings, etc
- Research for education, etc
- PR
- Holding of classes and workshops
- Inspection of studios, if necessary
- Printing leaflets, posters etc
- Misc
• Website development
• Graphic design
• Setting up company
• Phone line setup
• Domain name purchase
I have also personally spent over 3 months researching the information for the website, doing the creative and technical writing and setting up the association. I don’t expect that I’ll be reimbursed for my time. However we can’t expect other professionals to work for nothing.
The association will prepare annual accounts so all members will have full disclosure of how funds are spent. AGM will be held at the Dublin Tattoo Convention in November.
Regarding the inspection of studios.
It is not intended that the Association nor it’s officers/directors will inspect the member studios. Rather the idea is that of self regulation and the signing up to a code of standards and ethics. If however we receive complaints from the public or another member or are made aware of the failure of a member studio to adhere to our standards we will take appropriate action, i.e. employ a suitably qualified person (e.g. microbiologist, occupational hygienist or other infection control specialist) to carry out an inspection.
There is also the possibility/threat that an artist who signs up to ABMAI's Code of Ethics might have to answer for any failure to uphold the said Standards in a courtroom ("So Mr. Tattooist, The Code of Ethics of your Association states that you will not tattoo persons under the age of 18. Can you tell me why my client, baby Jane, age 12 has had two tattoos in your studio"):mad:
So Hellrazor I hope this answers most of your questions. It's all very well to be cynical but, as PiercingDanny says, we have to start somewhere let's try to make this work.
And my final little thought for the day before I go back to my day job for the weekend.
"This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realised that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done ":o
Have a good weekend everyone and I'll answer any more questions you have on Monday. BTW the list of current members is on the website under "Public"0 -
Join Date:Posts: 10129
Look can you not just answer the question I asked instead of spinning it like a politician??
The question again was :
Can an artist who is working at the Middleton Convention who may own a shop elsewhere in the country call to your stand,pay a membership fee and get a cert saying they are a ABMAI member??
Im not being cynical.Im asking you if you hand out memberships without actually checking if that artist meets your criteria for membership??Regarding the inspection of studios.
It is not intended that the Association nor it’s officers/directors will inspect the member studios. Rather the idea is that of self regulation and the signing up to a code of standards and ethics. If however we receive complaints from the public or another member or are made aware of the failure of a member studio to adhere to our standards we will take appropriate action, i.e. employ a suitably qualified person (e.g. microbiologist, occupational hygienist or other infection control specialist) to carry out an inspection.
This ^^^ is ridiculous.You give a person membership (without any inspection) and then act only if a complaint is made at which stage its too late if theyve given someone Hep C or Staph.
Cmon youre asking people including users here to ask if their artist is ABMAI registered when all they have to do is pay a fee to become a member.This is whats completely wrong here.
It should work like this.
1.Inspect first.
2.Assess the artist and/or shop.
3.Grant membership.
This proves that they meet your guidelines and would put customers minds at ease and cant become a member until they do.Not tick a few boxes on an application form and expect yourselves to act if a complaint is made.So Hellrazor I hope this answers most of your questions. It's all very well to be cynical but, as PiercingDanny says, we have to start somewhere let's try to make this work.
Well you havent really answered any of them to be honest.If youre going to start somewhere then start it the right way.
Personally I wouldnt give any credence to this ABMAI membership as it currently stands.0 -
There is also the possibility/threat that an artist who signs up to ABMAI's Code of Ethics might have to answer for any failure to uphold the said Standards in a courtroom ("So Mr. Tattooist, The Code of Ethics of your Association states that you will not tattoo persons under the age of 18. Can you tell me why my client, baby Jane, age 12 has had two tattoos in your studio"):mad:
On what grounds would you be bringing them to court pray tell?
On the grounds that they bought a piece of paper from you and then didn't live up to what they said they would?
Without any kind of inspection or verification that they are living up to the standards that you're trying to promote, then the piece of paper is worthless, and the case would be thrown out of court, as you wouldn't have a case as you didn't attempt to verify the standards in the first place.
Oh, and BTW, I've gone through and removed all the unnecessary font, colour and size tags from your post, you don't need to try to make your text seem 'shouty'.0 -
The question again was :
Can an artist who is working at the Middleton Convention who may own a shop elsewhere in the country call to your stand,pay a membership fee and get a cert saying they are a ABMAI member??Hellrazer wrote:
Cmon youre asking people including users here to ask if their artist is ABMAI registered when all they have to do is pay a fee to become a member.This is whats completely wrong here.
It should work like this.
1.Inspect first.
2.Assess the artist and/or shop.
3.Grant membership.
Well you havent really answered any of them to be honest.If youre going to start somewhere then start it the right way.
Personally I wouldnt give any credence to this ABMAI membership as it currently stands.
My apologies if I haven't made myself crystal clear. In order to join ABMAI the applicant must sign a contract (the application form) and pay the annual fee.
We not do inspect studios as a matter of routine. To employ a suitably qualified person, i.e. a microbiologist, would cost in the region of €400 per premises. Given your earlier comments about our annual fee .
"Id like to know where they go aswell.
As arawn says--€150 for a bit paper??"
how many studios do you know would/could pay €550 membership fee?
I'm not saying ABMAI is perfect. I'm saying that we need to start somewhere.0 -
On what grounds would you be bringing them to court pray tell?
On the grounds that they bought a piece of paper from you and then didn't live up to what they said they would?
Without any kind of inspection or verification that they are living up to the standards that you're trying to promote, then the piece of paper is worthless, and the case would be thrown out of court, as you wouldn't have a case as you didn't attempt to verify the standards in the first place.
"A contract is an agreement entered into voluntarily by two parties or more with the intention of creating a legal obligation, which may have elements in writing, though contracts can be made orally. A contract is a legally enforceable promise or undertaking that something will or will not occurOh, and BTW, I've gone through and removed all the unnecessary font, colour and size tags from your post, you don't need to try to make your text seem 'shouty'.
I'm sorry if my use of the formatting tools provided by Boards offends you. I thought that the use of colour, italics, different size fonts, etc. made the messages easier to read. I didn't intend my messages to be "shouty" (I always thought that shouting was indicated by CAPITAL letters).0 -
Join Date:Posts: 10129
No they must also sign a contract stating that they will adhere to the Code of Ethics of the ABMAI
Ok fair enough.However you still havent answered whether they can join "on the day" so to speak?
Its this that I have a problem with.You dont know the artist,you dont know whether their shop meets your standards and you dont know whether if they sign your contract they are going to keep up their end of the deal and keep the shop to your standards.
Im a huge advocate of some form of legislation for tattooists and piercers and I always have been but it has to be done correctly and I honestly feel that this isnt the right way.We not do inspect studios as a matter of routine. To employ a suitably qualified person, i.e. a microbiologist, would cost in the region of €400 per premises. Given your earlier comments about our annual fee .
how many studios do you know would/could pay €550 membership fee?
€550.00 isnt a bad price to pay to have your studio 100% verified as hygenic to a real set of standards.I'm not saying ABMAI is perfect. I'm saying that we need to start somewhere.
I dont have any problems with what you are really trying to achieve here I really dont--I just feel that it needs "tweaking" so to speak to make it more transparent for the end user ie the customer.0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 10129
In the scenerio I described, I was envisaging "Baby Jane" or her parents bringing the tattooist to court. But if ABMAI were bringing the action it would be for breach of contract. The application form which artists must sign in order to become an ABMAI member is, in fact, an enforceable contract and not "a worthless piece of paper"
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So you are saying that ABMAI will be the ones to take an artist to court for breach of contract rather than "Baby Janes" parents??
Can you even take someone to court if you`ve basically "sold" them the contract for a fee?
Even the most dodgy shops Ive seen use some "form of consent" to basically cover their arses with regards to this so how would that stand if Baby Jane has signed a consent form and used fake Id to get tattooed or pierced.I doubt the shop could be held liable under your contract for that.
Have you had your solicitor look over your contract and confirm that it is indeed enforceable??
Again Im not being cynical-Im asking questions that maybe you havent asked yourselves that I find could genuinely help you out in the event of a case like this actually happening.0
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