Foetus stem cell research

RaRaRasputin

Meanwhile in Russia...

http://en.ria.ru/crime/20120725/174778464.html






Ok, jokes aside. This is a bit of a dodgy story alright. Though I personally don't see any problem with abortion but understand why other people disagree with it in some cases, this case is just outright bizarre and creepy.

Fair enough to have an abortion, it's your own choice. I also don't see a problem with research with the tissue because I do not consider an embryo to comparable to a baby because to me it is just a heap of cells. But there are obviously limits, both time wise as well as ethical.

I don't want another pro- or contra abortion discussion to start here, because it will never go anywhere anyway. But I guess some people here might agree that the disposal of foetuses just down a ditch is a bit off limits for any person. The fact that it wasn't only one foetus but 250 and that some of them were up to 6 months old (other sources) just makes it sicker.
Anyway, feel free to disagree but please try to refrain from discussions on the nature of abortions. They are legal in Russia so the legal basis shouldn't be an issue here.

jhegarty

So killing them fine , but dumping them in a forest bad form ?

Chuck Stone

Pro life versus pro choice in

3

2

1...

Hande hoche!

Abortions for some etc. etc.

jumpguy

jhegarty wrote: »

So killing them fine , but dumping them in a forest bad form ?

Just because you support abortion doesn't mean you support dumping a load of biohazards around the place.

OP, if you don't want discussion of abortion here...then what do you want discussed? Embryonic stem cell research? Because it ultimately boils down to the same concepts...

RaRaRasputin

Yes, the abortion and stem cell research part is legal, but what is described in the article is clearly beyond it.

RaRaRasputin

jumpguy wrote: »

Just because you support abortion doesn't mean you support dumping a load of biohazards around the place.

OP, if you don't want discussion of abortion here...then what do you want discussed? Embryonic stem cell research? Because it ultimately boils down to the same concepts...

I just found it quite creepy and tried to make clear that it is not the abortion itself that I have a problem with, but the way the whole thing was obviously carried out. It's just disgusting

Kylo Ren

If hundreds of human fetuses fall in a forest, and no one is around, does it make a sound?

Sauve

I don't understand why they would just dump them there. Surely research facilities like this would have access to incinerators to dispose of all waste (needles/biohazard etc.).
Especially if it's something else of a criminal nature, surely the perpetrators would want to destroy the evidence properly?

Just doesn't make sense.

Atomicjuicer

When people ask for the limits to be pushed this is the consequence.

And people think euthanasia wouldn't be abused!

steddyeddy

Well I agree with stem cell research but they could have been more careful dumping the bodies.

RaRaRasputin

Sauve wrote: »

I don't understand why they would just dump them there. Surely research facilities like this would have access to incinerators to dispose of all waste (needles/biohazard etc.).
Especially if it's something else of a criminal nature, surely the perpetrators would want to destroy the evidence properly?

Just doesn't make sense.

Also that the barrels still contained the stickers with the mothers' names and room numbers. It really seems like someone unprofessional was told to quickly dispose of the stuff in a hurry

Chucken

RaRaRasputin wrote: »

Meanwhile in Russia...

http://en.ria.ru/crime/20120725/174778464.html








I don't want another pro- or contra abortion discussion to start here, because it will never go anywhere .

What do you want discussed then??

Sauve

Atomicjuicer wrote: »

When people ask for the limits to be pushed this is the consequence.

And people think euthanasia wouldn't be abused!

Not necessarily.
I think you're being a tad sensationalist here.
No matter what laws/guidlines we're asked to live by, people are always going to go overboard.
Should we ban steak knives while we're at it?

eth0

Even this fella had a better system for disposing of bodies

http://www.iceboating.net/files/images/chipper.jpg

blacklilly

I may be wrong but I though abortion in Russia was permitted up until the 12th week of pregnancy.
Abortion debate to the side, I think most people will be disgusted by this story

steddyeddy

If abortion was legalised here would stem cell testing be allowed?

Sauve

steddyeddy wrote: »

If abortion was legalised here would stem cell testing be allowed?

Is your question relating to the possible use of aborted foetuses or embryos in stem cell research? I don't think that's possible.
Embryonic stem cells are taken at the blastocyst stage which is, I think 4-5 days after fertilisation. This stage itself lasts only a few days as far as I can remember.

steddyeddy

Sauve wrote: »

Is your question relating to the possible use of aborted foetuses or embryos in stem cell research? I don't think that's possible.
Embryonic stem cells are taken at the blastocyst stage which is, I think 4-5 days after fertilisation. This stage itself lasts only a few days as far as I can remember.

Aborted foetuses. Would there be a law preventing experimentation? New techniques can induce potency in all degrees of cell specialization.

Sauve

steddyeddy wrote: »

Aborted foetuses. Would there be a law preventing experimentation? New techniques can induce potency in all degrees of cell specialization.

For a start there'd have to be permission from the mother, surely?

I don't agree with abortion, have quite strong feelings towards it.
That aside because this isn't a moral debate, that issue would have to be legislated for. Hospitals/clinics couldn't just hand over foetuses to research facilities, there'd be uproar.

Giselle

Sauve wrote: »

For a start there'd have to be permission from the mother, surely?

I don't agree with abortion, have quite strong feelings towards it.
That aside because this isn't a moral debate, that issue would have to be legislated for. Hospitals/clinics couldn't just hand over foetuses to research facilities, there'd be uproar.

And unfortunately history has shown that similar has happened as with the hospital in the UK that removed dead babies organs for research and never told, never mind asked, the families. The uproar only happened after they were found out.
http://society.guardian.co.uk/alderhey/

If some medical professionals don't feel the need to gain familial permission after the death of a baby, there'll be more who consider the product of abortion to be nothing more than human waste and less in need of permission to work on.

Sauve

Giselle wrote: »

And unfortunately history has shown that similar has happened as with the hospital in the UK that removed dead babies organs for research and never told, never mind asked, the families. The uproar only happened after they were found out.
http://society.guardian.co.uk/alderhey/

If some medical professionals don't feel the need to gain familial permission after the death of a baby, there'll be more who consider the product of abortion to be nothing more than human waste and less in need of permission to work on.

Yeah I have to agree with you there, but I don't know if I'd disagree on stem cell research on that basis alone.
There are always going to be people out there looking for a quick buck, irregardless of the immorality/consequences of their actions.

Giselle

I feel the same way about stem cell research as I do about gynaecological check ups.

Uncomfortable. But necessary in the long term.

I think very strictly policed regulation should be a given.