DJs

Crooked Jack

So. Skillful musicians, talented artists or arseholes with an inflated ego who have learned how to push a play button?

AnonoBoy

Depends on the DJ.

Depends on the DJ.

Are we talking Steve Lawler or Uncle Paddy down the GAA club with his ghettoblaster?

Thatnastyboy

Well, this guy must have been a hoor of a dj

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJqgFHz_chU

mauzo

Tiesto lads wha??!

Rabidlamb

Never had an ounce of time for them, a playlist would do the job as well.
Acting like their mixing live on the decks when we know it's all been done months previous with expensive software.
Worse than Hitler, the lot of them.

TURRICAN

Unfortunatly none of the above:cool:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Crooked Jack wrote: »

So. Skillful musicians, talented artists or arseholes with an inflated ego who have learned how to push a play button?

20% number 2, 80% number 3. Certainly 0% number 1.

Cianos

It seems some people in this thread are confusing DJs with electronic music musicians.

Crooked Jack

To be honest, I just dont see that they do anything of any merit.
Im not saying all of them do, but any that I have met think they are absolute rockstars despite the fact that they play other people's music.
Then they show you all the buttons they have to learn, as if that's a justification for their attitude.
Next on the list is how they took two popular songs and mixed them to create a new song. Something any five year old with the right software can do but something they shouldnt do because the mixes always sound worse than the originals.
I have some very good friends who DJ (there was a massive DJ society in our uni) and despite years of listening to their explanations and arguments I still have little to no respect for it as an art or craft, from the worlds top DJs to Tommy down at the community hall. At least Tommy is only doing it for the craic.
Then there are the ones who dont even pretend that there is some skill to it, jsut show up at a bar or club with a laptop but still go the whole hog with the massive headphones and acting like they're the God of music.

DarkJager

Actual performance DJ'ing takes quite a bit of skill. You lot are confusing some guy with a laptop in a pub for being a DJ - he's not.

Where To

Wastards.

Crooked Jack

TURRICAN wrote: »

Unfortunatly none of the above:cool:

so what should be secret option 4?

RikkFlair

"Hang the DJ, hang the DJ. Hang the DJ hang the DJ hang the DJ"

DJ Shadow is pretty cool though.

VEN

depends yes. more and more today anyone can 'pretend' to be a dj, just like say digital photography, graphic design etc. the tools, software
is more accesible by everyone to try their hand at it BUT these are just tools.
dj's who learned their trade on vinyl and many who still solely use vinyl have the skills no doubt. granted some skills are required using cds, software but the job is far easier using 'buttons' and eh 'free' mp3s'???. a lot of the time i find their sets to be a mess with less thought and mashed up with all sorts of fancy effects.
its interesting because in the beginning the DJ was there in the background, then sometime around the 80s into the 90s the rise of superstar DJ arrived. Now i personally think the DJ has gone back into the background because theres so ****ing many of them trying their hand at it, nobody cares anymore, the skill has gone out of it brought upon by technology. Too many sheep and not enough shepherds.
As for laptop DJs? Nuff said.

God used to be a dj, now it's usually Anto or Deco.
Sometimes both.
No talent required.

Now producing and mastering midi on a DAW, that takes time & talent.

Crooked Jack

DarkJager wrote: »

Actual performance DJ'ing takes quite a bit of skill. You lot are confusing some guy with a laptop in a pub for being a DJ - he's not.

Can you explain it to me a bit then? What skill exactly?

HoggyRS

What really matters is this weekend i'll make the equivalent of 40 hours minimum wage work from djing for a total of 6 hours over 2 nights. Cushty

TURRICAN

This thread is going nowhere like always.
people shouldnt comment on things they are not so sure of.:)

biko

Are we talking professional DJs or Anto down the road with a homemade mixing table that played at Jancinta's wedding?

Local_Chap

DJ Carey? Legend.

leggo

People, including the OP (and many new-era DJs too, to be fair), don't understand what a DJ is.

A DJ isn't, and shouldn't try to be, selling himself as an original artist. We're middle-men, people who search and listen to music that normal people don't have the time for and present it in an entertaining way to them so that they'll appreciate it as we do. That's it. There's no particular ego to it, any egos involved are more down to the person than the profession.

People who create EDM aren't DJs, they're producers (though an EDM producer will also, likely, be or have been a DJ at some stage). That's why I feel you don't understand what a DJ is, OP, you're hearing the media calling David Guetta a DJ and you're assuming that's what he is. And producers are also musicians, just because they use a laptop doesn't mean that they don't go through the same creative process as any other musician. The laptop and accessories they use around it are just their instruments instead.

In fact, they probably do more work than a regular musician: a guitar player just plays his part of a song then leaves it to the producer to mix down into the overall track. Producing a track solo requires them to create it, perform it, mix it down and master it themselves.

But there'll always be ****ing eejits who get drunk in clubs and think, "I cud do dat!" but are too lazy to actually do it, so just settle for slagging off the DJs without having any clue what they actually do.

VEN

biko wrote: »

Are we talking professional DJs or Anto down the road with a homemade mixing table that played at Jancinta's wedding?

i'd go with both, just cos they're professional means jack all when it comes to skill.

TURRICAN

HoggyRS wrote: »

What really matters is this weekend i'll make the equivalent of 40 hours minimum wage work from djing for a total of 6 hours over 2 nights. Cushty

Now now relax.the thread is not looking for this sort of wind up gestures.
we will get plenty from the people who dont understand here what there talking about.;)

Crooked Jack

TURRICAN wrote: »

This thread is going nowhere like always.
people shouldnt comment on things they are not so sure of.:)

That's why I'm asking. Educate me.
Yer man above said something about a DAW on a midi something or other.
I heard a lot of this waffle in uni but to be honest when it came down to it at a party or club nobody ever seemed to notice any difference between the guy with the laptop who hit play and got pissed and the guy with the huge mix desk who ran about frantically fiddling with sliders and knobs all night.

leggo

leggo wrote: »

People, including the OP (and many new-era DJs too, to be fair), don't understand what a DJ is.

A DJ isn't, and shouldn't try to be, selling himself as an original artist. We're middle-men, people who search and listen to music that normal people don't have the time for and present it in an entertaining way to them so that they'll appreciate it as we do. That's it. There's no particular ego to it, any egos involved are more down to the person than the profession.

People who create EDM aren't DJs, they're producers (though an EDM producer will also, likely, be or have been a DJ at some stage). That's why I feel you don't understand what a DJ is, OP, you're hearing the media calling David Guetta a DJ and you're assuming that's what he is. And producers are also musicians, just because they use a laptop doesn't mean that they don't go through the same creative process as any other musician. The laptop and accessories they use around it are just their instruments instead.

In fact, they probably do more work than a regular musician: a guitar player just plays his part of a song then leaves it to the producer to mix down into the overall track. Producing a track solo requires them to create it, perform it, mix it down and master it themselves.

But there'll always be ****ing eejits who get drunk in clubs and think, "I cud do dat!" but are too lazy to actually do it, so just settle for slagging off the DJs without having any clue what they actually do.

So there

FatherLen

any nightclub dj = number 3
fatboy slim = number 2
????? = number 1

Crooked Jack

Crooked Jack wrote: »

That's why I'm asking. Educate me.
Yer man above said something about a DAW on a midi something or other.
I heard a lot of this waffle in uni but to be honest when it came down to it at a party or club nobody ever seemed to notice any difference between the guy with the laptop who hit play and got pissed and the guy with the huge mix desk who ran about frantically fiddling with sliders and knobs all night.

DAW = Digital Audio Workstation
Midi = digital instruments & music that can communicate with each other.

It's how you create music in the digital age, unlike DJ's who take someone else music and mix it, sometimes destroy it.:D

Festy

The Spinmaster from FR TED is the best DJ on this planet.

Nulty

Hip hop turntablists > techno disc jockeyists

TURRICAN

Crooked Jack wrote: »

That's why I'm asking. Educate me.
Yer man above said something about a DAW on a midi something or other.
I heard a lot of this waffle in uni but to be honest when it came down to it at a party or club nobody ever seemed to notice any difference between the guy with the laptop who hit play and got pissed and the guy with the huge mix desk who ran about frantically fiddling with sliders and knobs all night.

guy with the laptop and got pissed ....says it all.
guy with the huge mixing desk...think he might be what we call a sound engineer

google is your friend for the daw and midi.

DarkJager

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Can you explain it to me a bit then? What skill exactly?

A real DJ will take his time planning a set and the tracks he'll play. This also involves actually doing the beatmatching yourself (which is something I dare any of you slating DJ's to try and see how **** hot you are it). Track selection needs to be arranged by BPM, having tracks together that keep a nice pace for the dancefloor and maybe 1 or 2 depending on preference to chill it down a bit. And of course they need to blend seamlessly, which is why you'll know from a totally out of time car crash happening in the speakers that it's a poor DJ playing.

A laptop DJ in the majority of cases will have software that does all of that automatically. This is the "DJ" you are confusing with an actual DJ with skill. he presses play, the software does the DJ'ing. I should point out that manual DJ'ing can also be done with a laptop and there are plenty of "proper" DJ's that use this for the ease of having their entire collections of tracks digitally available.

To simply call DJ's talentless because Anthony down the pub is sitting there with his laptop and doing jesus christ poses, is ridiculous and completely ignorant of what DJ'ing actually involves. It's like saying a drummer is just a talentless guy who likes banging things.

HoggyRS

FatherLen wrote: »

any nightclub dj = number 3
fatboy slim = number 2
????? = number 1

hmmm

I've had a few residencies in nightclubs and mixed a large majority of the tracks. Mixing (beatmatching, EQing, bit of scratching) equals a skill, most djs in clubs would be the same(decent clubs anyway) hence most nightclub djs would be number 2 in the poll.

Fatboy Slim is number 1 i'd say, as he is a musician as well as a dj.

I am also guilty of being number 3 in the poll, a button pusher. If you are djing at a wedding or a birthday party or whatever, mixing is not important. Tune selection & reading the crowd are the most important things here, which would be the main stumbling block for the "sure I could do that" crew.

Nulty

If this isn't entertaining then you need a good seeing to

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LlrIuHmCto&feature=related

mauzo

Nulty wrote: »

If this isn't entertaining then you need a good seeing to

I definitely need a good seeing to

leggo

If I'm DJ-ing around friends or anything and have any of them start giving me the, "Sure that takes no skill, I could do that!" speeches (it happens...constantly), I usually let them stand at the decks for about 15 minutes. They'll play one big chart track that everyone loves, then do a rotten transition into a completely different genre at a completely different BPM, then have lost the room by the third or fourth track. At that stage they'll always, always sheepishly ask me to take back over.

OP can make all of the arguments he likes, but right now he's that guy.

Skylinehead

Depends on what the DJ is doing really. If he's running a laptop and using the software to sync tracks with each other, it's not really talented at all. Using CDJs or vinyl though, that's a whole different story.

syndeyfife

syndeyfife wrote: »

I definitely need a good seeing to

Who doesn't?:pac:

TURRICAN

http://youtu.be/Y92Scr1i68U
short and sweet:cool:

Crooked Jack

leggo wrote: »

If I'm DJ-ing around friends or anything and have any of them start giving me the, "Sure that takes no skill, I could do that!" speeches (it happens...constantly), I usually let them stand at the decks for about 15 minutes. They'll play one big chart track that everyone loves, then do a rotten transition into a completely different genre at a completely different BPM, then have lost the room by the third or fourth track. At that stage they'll always, always sheepishly ask me to take back over.

OP can make all of the arguments he likes, but right now he's that guy.

What on earth does that prove? you had as much time as you needed to prepare a set and then you think dropping someone in the middle of it for 15 minutes off the cuff with equipment they arent familiar with proves that not just anyone can do it. Um, no.

cometogether

There are some seriously talented DJs. Unfortunately, it's the d ickheads like David Guetta and his ilk that give the rest a bad name.

TURRICAN

Crooked Jack has a problem with djs and has taken it to the internet to let off steam:D:D:D
Go for a walk man!

VEN

DarkJager wrote: »

A laptop DJ in the majority of cases will have software that does all of that automatically. .

and a cdj, traktor, serato, final scratch my arse dj will have all that too not to mention modern mixers with all the bells and whistles

its all easy peezy nowadays. real vinyl mixing is the only true art form of the dj skillset

Crooked Jack

TURRICAN wrote: »

guy with the laptop and got pissed ....says it all.
guy with the huge mixing desk...think he might be what we call a sound engineer

google is your friend for the daw and midi.

You have yet to say anything other than "you dont understand."
At leas the dark Jager guy made an effort to present an argument.
And i wasnt specifically asking what DAW and midi are, I was using them as an example of the waffle that surrounds DJing to make it sound like something that requires a huge amount of skill.

TURRICAN

TURRICAN wrote: »

Crooked Jack has a problem with djs and has taken it to the internet to let off steam:D:D:D
Go for a walk man!

Sometimes these talented Dj's ask for it by making it seem like it's heart surgery.:pac:
BPM matching isn't that hard at all.

Crooked Jack

Crooked Jack wrote: »

And i wasnt specifically asking what DAW and midi are, I was using them as an example of the waffle that surrounds DJing to make it sound like something that requires a huge amount of skill.

DAW & Midi have nothing to do with DJ'ing whatsoever.:pac:

leggo

Also, one final point, but beatmatching isn't the main 'skill' involved in being a good DJ. Beatmatching is difficult, in that there's a learning curve of a few months, but when you get it it's a piece of piss for the most part. It's second nature.

Put it this way, beatmatching is like learning chords on a guitar: it takes time and isn't easy, but the mark of a good guitar player isn't that they can simply play certain chords. The mark of a good guitar player is that they can use those skills to compose a good hook or song.

Similarly, judging a DJ's ability by the ability to beatmatch or not is a bit short-sighted. A DJ should be judged by their ability to select songs, transition from song to song nicely (that's the only time beatmatching is relevant btw), keeping their listeners engaged, reading the room (last night's set that got the crowd crazy mightn't work on the same crowd tonight), going up-and-down in tempo, emotion and energy and giving them a good night out over the course of a 2-4 hour live set. Everyone thinks they can do it ("Shure it's just playin' a few tunes, like")...until they actually try it.

We're hardly rockstars or saving the world, but we're still doing a job. And I always say that DJ-ing is easy to do, but very difficult to do well.

leggo

leggo wrote: »

We're hardly rockstars or saving the world, but we're still doing a job. And I always say that DJ-ing is easy to do, but very difficult to do well.

That's a very good point.

Crooked Jack

TURRICAN wrote: »

Crooked Jack has a problem with djs and has taken it to the internet to let off steam:D:D:D
Go for a walk man!

I've asked you a number of times to explain it to me and you havent, you've just come out with platitudes.
Maybe there just isnt all that much to explain.

MistyCheese

Poll needs more options. Something like....

A: talented musicians - I have being DJing for years and it took a lot of practise, time and effort to gain sufficient competancy in it

B: talented musicians - I can't DJ myself but I respect those who can

C: skillfull artists - I don't consider a mixing desk to be an actual instrument but it does take a certain degree of skill to use one properly


skillfull artists - I don't know personally how to beatmatch, but I definately think it requires some skill

E: people who can push play - I am a DJ and I know for a fact that this is all DJs do


F: people who can push play - I've never tried to DJ but sure it looks like it'd be a piece of piss

VEN

RVP 11 wrote: »

Sometimes these talented Dj's ask for it by making it seem like it's heart surgery.:pac:
BPM matching isn't that hard at all.

its the serious sweaty look on their faces trying to turn those 'so difficult to turn' knobs, so damn hard :pac: