DJs

buried

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I have no idea what you're talking about. It's probably a safe bet that I wouldnt be a fan. But again, were stuck on my opinion. Why does everyone here find it so hard to believe that someone could possibly not have the same taste in music as them.

Fair enough, I just think its a shame that you choose to ignore a form of music on the presumption that electronic music only has one specific genre which is 'dance' or 'beat orientated', I'm just saying that is not the case.

Crooked Jack

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

Because it's impossible to not find one single, solitary song made with a computer and not enjoy it. Again, you're just eating rotten beef. Go to a different butcher.

It's not. I am living proof.

Crooked Jack

Helix wrote: »

do you like this? i use it as an example because it's just a great piece of music really, and to gauge a starting point here

All those films you said he worked on had great soundtracks that worked within the context of the film. On its own however, that does nothing for me

TURRICAN

Just call it a day man.
Information has been shared with you but you have now found yourself bickering over peoples taste in music.

Every man to his own and its music to the worlds ears.:)

Helix

Crooked Jack wrote: »

All those films you said he worked on had great soundtracks that worked within the context of the film. On its own however, that does nothing for me

they are great soundtracks that work within the films. for all your anti-electronic music stuff, here's a look at zimmer's studio

flyswatter

Helix wrote: »

saw it, doesnt make sense in line with the conversation though

an open e on guitar, or a c# on piano are existing sounds. the sound on a record is an existing sound

it's the manipulation of those sounds, the structuring of them with others and the combination with other notes that creates music. what's the difference between a sustained c on a piano, and a sustained c on a record? the c on the record can be manipulated into a wide range of other notes by someone who is skilled with the instrument, just as a piano player can play a range of notes. but both start off with the same base set of sounds, that is to say a preexisting cyclical vibration of the air

In the case though of DJ's, they are mostly mixing records that have already been recorded, whereas a more conventional method is to compose from scratch.

Let me just state that I don't have much against sampling. In fact, Endtroducing by DJ Shadow is a favourite album of mine.

Crooked Jack

TURRICAN wrote: »

Just call it a day man.
Information has been shared with you but you have now found yourself bickering over peoples taste in music.

Every man to his own and its music to the worlds ears.:)

I agree with you, Im not bickering, a dozen times i've tried to get back onto the topic.

iamstop

VEN wrote: »

its interesting because in the beginning the DJ was there in the background
As for laptop DJs? Nuff said.

I agree with most of what you wrote but this is false. (insert pic of that dude from the office)

There is a book called 'Last night the DJ saved my life' all about the history of DJing from Larry Levan and to the Northern Soul era to how the Reggae DJs begat MCing and rapping. DJs have had a long history of being the main focus, hip hop is what started to put them in background, kind of ironically. Hip Hop and Turntablism is what brought a lot of DJs back to the fore.
On the 'Dance' scene DJs from Detroit and Chicago invented House and Techno off the back of the dying Disco scene, originally using drum machines and synths OVER records until eventually the drum machines and synths completely replaced the records for live sets.
http://www.amazon.com/Last-Night-DJ-Saved-Life/dp/0802136885

I'm a DJ, I only use vinyl but like anything that people do there are some that do it well, pushing the boundaries and some that are pretty bad at it and just press 'play' and 'synch'.
Unfortunately the rise of the CD deck and more recently the MP3 DJ software has made it much easier for people with very little talent to fake it.

After reading most of the posts on here I realised; this is AH after all. The place where people like to come along and make sweeping statements about things they know f%&k all about.

Helix

flyswatter wrote: »

In the case though of DJ's, they are mostly mixing records that have already been recorded, whereas a more conventional method is to compose from scratch.

Let me just state that I don't have much against sampling. In fact, Endtroducing by DJ Shadow is a favourite album of mine.

yeah but i was explicitly not talking about djs who mix records. i was talking about someone like Kid Koala who DOES compose using turntables as an instrument

that's all

dj jarvis

[QUOTE=Crooked Jack;79927709]Because I like real instruments and lyrics and songs with meaning?
Or is it because you're one of these arseholes who has his speakers thumping at 4.30am of a wednesday morning while you and your friends are pilled out?
You'll find that will get on the tits of many people of all ages.[/QUOTE]

oh come on - you go to a night club to hear music " with meaning " ???
people go to dance and drink

you want a magical experiences with your meaningful music , stay at home and put head phones on

anyway your assuming just because some people like electronic dance music, that they cant also dj hip hop , break beats or rock ???

just because you have NO understanding about music or djing , dont be making the assumption that we are all as small minded as you

i played trance and techno at last years electric picnic , and last week i played the bee gees at a gig in Helsinki , in two weeks im doing a rock based set for a wedding - is this a eclectic enough of a mix for your highness ???

your comments are just showing that you just dont know what your talking about, so your opinion means nothing

Herb Powell

DarkJager wrote: »

A real DJ will take his time planning a set and the tracks he'll play. This also involves actually doing the beatmatching yourself (which is something I dare any of you slating DJ's to try and see how **** hot you are it).

I think most people can count. :pac:

And let's be honest, there are entire GENRES of electronic music defined by BPM-yeah, the transition there is difficult!

Helix

dj jarvis wrote: »

i played trance and techno at last years electric picnic

im sure that went down well with the techno heads... you heathen

dj jarvis

Helix wrote: »

im sure that went down well with the techno heads... you heathen

it did !!! all kind go to that thing you know

Jesus Shaves

Herb Powell wrote: »

I think most people can count. :pac:

And let's be honest, there are entire GENRES of electronic music defined by BPM-yeah, the transition there is difficult!

Not sure if trolling or stupid

Helix

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

Not sure if trolling or stupid

to be fair, beatmatching is very, very easy

Jesus Shaves

Herb Powell wrote: »

And let's be honest, there are entire GENRES of electronic music defined by BPM

this

Helix wrote: »

to be fair, beatmatching is very, very easy

Ah i know that h3lx

Djing isnt easy.. Ive alot of respect for a good dj since they can make a good night out great.

Herb Powell

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

Not sure if trolling or stupid

I must be stupid, though I do admit it was worded cheekily.......................

Jesus Shaves

Herb Powell wrote: »

I must be stupid, though I do admit it was worded cheekily.......................

Don't put yourself down man:P

Herb Powell

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

Don't put yourself down man:P

BUT PLEASE EXPLAIN

I want to know which part was bollocks

Cienciano

I think when pubs or clubs get in "celebrity" dj's, it gives the public the idea that it's easy. I was in a place a while back and Jackie Degg (older page 3 model) was DJ one week, and Georgia Salpa was doing it another week. Vogue Williams is apparently a DJ. Who? Exactly.

Jesus Shaves

Herb Powell wrote: »

BUT PLEASE EXPLAIN

I want to know which part was bollocks

I don't agree with your point that genres are defined by BPM

Intensive Care Bear

Helix wrote: »

to be fair, beatmatching is very, very easy

A lot of people say that but it does take lots of skill to keep 2 or 3 vinyls perfectly in sync for a 3 or 4 minute mix.

Show Time

Any old fool can master spinning records or changing CD's.

NinjaK

70% of boards are idiots, it takes alot of skill and practice to be good on the decks

NinjaK

Show Time wrote: »

Any old fool can master spinning records or changing CD's.

you havent a clue so

dj jarvis

1210m5g wrote: »

A lot of people say that but it does take a lots of skill to keep 2 or 3 vinyls perfectly in sync for a 3 or 4 minute mix.

especially if you have taken liberties at the free bar for the dj HIC HIC

dj jarvis

Show Time wrote: »

Any old fool can master spinning records or changing CD's.

your right - any fool can , but only a few are good enough to make a living and make their name in the industry - this is where the skill comes into it,

just like the army of clowns in this country who can play a few chords on a guitar and suddenly they are the next big thing and selling their souls to appear on im a wanker get me on tv

and people are giving out about dj's ?? give me a break

anyone who states that djing is easy, and any clown can do it , ill tell ya what
you get a gig , get paid to get to this gig , entertain 500/600 people and not **** it up - this takes knowledge and skill - end of

Dramatik

flyswatter wrote: »

A pair of decks or whatever isn't an instrument

You can buy records that have tracks which have a c note which infinatly loops on them, by changing the pitch on the turntable (the speed that the record is playing at) you can change note being played.

karaokeman

Aphex Twin

Sky King

NinjaK wrote: »

70% of boards are idiots, it takes alot of skill and practice to be good on the decks

I have been playing drums for about 16 years. It took the best part of four years practicing up to an hour every day to get to what I would call a decent standard.

I have been playing piano 4 years and am nowhere near half decent on it.

I can also mix records using vinyl and CD decks and it took me about 3-4 weeks to get properly proficient at it.

Scratch trickery is a different story of course. That takes serious effort and practice. I have a lot of respect for those guys.

DubDJ

DJ'ing is not easy by far. With the latest tech out now it is becoming a lot easier for DJ's and also young lads jumping on the bandwagon. But I know some really talented DJ's. These so called Celebs like Bressie and Vogue Williams jumping on the band wagon lately arent helping things. I know the resident DJ from a club Bressie was in lately and he said he hadn't a clue. Turned up with cheap equipment, a laptop and a half working set of Beats. It makes it look like a task a simple person could do. But if you know what your doing thats another story.

Just check out A-Trak and see if anyone with half a brain could do what he does.

Helix

Sky King wrote: »

I can also mix records using vinyl and CD decks and it took me about 3-4 weeks to get properly proficient at it.

beatmatching is the equivalent to knowing how to hold your drumsticks properly - it doesnt make you proficient, or good

OctavarIan

What a ridiculous poll, a DJ can be any one of those options. It depends on the DJ in question.

flyswatter

Helix wrote: »

beatmatching is the equivalent to knowing how to hold your drumsticks properly - it doesnt make you proficient, or good

Well seeing as proper grip is a huge factor in developing good technique, you are incorrect there.

nlgbbbblth

DJing is not easy. When you've got a crowd worked up to a frenzy then it's the best feeling in the world. However it takes time, practice and a lot of musical knowledge. I remember the first time I got behind the decks. 1990. At the back of a pub in Waterford and I was sh*tting myself. I had the records but not the skills so it was a real learning curve.

Over the years I've played infrequently - usually specialist nights and avoided the wedding / party circuit (with the odd exception). House parties are generally a good buzz because you get time to build a proper set. Lay blocks and work upwards. I don't need to beat-match but keeping a relatively similar styles / tempo is important when handling a dancefloor. I don't like sudden genre shifts which can often sound jarring.

To me it's all about the music - sharing the knowledge and getting people to dance to stuff they don't know. It's a great buzz when someone comes up and asks "what's that tune?". That's why it's important to keep checking out new sounds - I've been buying records every week for over 30 years.

Laptop DJing is alien to me but it works for some. For me it's vinyl first and CDs second. Nothing else after that.

AnalogueKid

Hate them, although I've absolutely nothing against people who make electronic music. Music is music, but don't try to pretend you're a real live performer. I view people like Aphex Twin and Orbital as artists, but I don't go along with the whole "live" thing.

It's just the whole "Octually man, it's a losh harder than ish looks" bull****, and "Live DJ playing tonite" that drives me up the wall. Years ago in college me and my mate decided to call their bluff. There was some knob-twiddling moron shaping on a stage with all of these 'afficianados' applauding the clot. We poured water on our hair to make it looklike we were sweating like mad, pulled our trouser legs up and made boas out of bogroll. All of the pseuds, including the DJ thought we were the most cutting-edge, hip scenesters in the place! They were even bigger idiots than we thought!

I'm sure learning how to do a bicycle kick or a cheeky chip on your XBox takes a bit of practice too, but it doesn't mean you can play football.

Having said that, the lone acoustic troubadours which this country seems to produce with scary frequency aren't much better. Try to do something new, ffs.

DJs however, are the ultimate example of The Emperor's New Clothes.

AnalogueKid

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

To me it's all about the music - sharing the knowledge and getting people to dance to stuff they don't know. It's a great buzz when someone comes up and asks "what's that tune?". That's why it's important to keep checking out new sounds - I've been buying records every week for over 30 years.

I buy records (vinyls) too. Sometimes people ask me what I'm listening to on my ipod. I've introduced people to artists they've never heard before, as others have done for me. It doesn't make me an artist though.

Helix

flyswatter wrote: »

Well seeing as proper grip is a huge factor in developing good technique, you are incorrect there.

beatmatching is a huge factor in developing a good technique, but mastering it doesn't make you a good dj. same way knowing how to hold your drumstick doesn't make you a good drummer. so im not incorrect

it's the single most basic part of djing, and it's also the first thing that anyone needs to learn. it can be picked up very very quickly, but mastering it is about 0.1% of being a good dj

flyswatter

Helix wrote: »

beatmatching is a huge factor in developing a good technique, but mastering it doesn't make you a good dj. same way knowing how to hold your drumstick doesn't make you a good drummer. so im not incorrect

it's the single most basic part of djing, and it's also the first thing that anyone needs to learn. it can be picked up very very quickly, but mastering it is about 0.1% of being a good dj

You can't possibly compare the two, I think you'll find having superb grip and fulcrum will provide the foundation to be a very good drummer.

As a comparison to make it's a misnomer.

Helix

flyswatter wrote: »

You can't possibly compare the two, I think you'll find having superb grip and fulcrum will provide the foundation to be a very good drummer.

what if you have no rhythm or hand eye coordination? knowing how to hold your sticks wont count for much

Crooked Jack

dj jarvis wrote: »

oh come on - you go to a night club to hear music " with meaning " ???
people go to dance and drink

you want a magical experiences with your meaningful music , stay at home and put head phones on

anyway your assuming just because some people like electronic dance music, that they cant also dj hip hop , break beats or rock ???

just because you have NO understanding about music or djing , dont be making the assumption that we are all as small minded as you

i played trance and techno at last years electric picnic , and last week i played the bee gees at a gig in Helsinki , in two weeks im doing a rock based set for a wedding - is this a eclectic enough of a mix for your highness ???

your comments are just showing that you just dont know what your talking about, so your opinion means nothing

Um, no On the rare occasion i go to a night club i go for the purpose of getting drunk and fingering a 19 year old girl. The music is jsut something i put up with. However I have no idea what relevance that has to anything i have said. Essentially i said two things. Firstly i asked if people thought DJing was a real skill, inviting all opinions.
Secondly, i mentioned, in passing, that I dont like dance music. That was it.
Everything else that people think i've said, such as your comment - "your assuming just because some people like electronic dance music, that they cant also dj hip hop , break beats or rock" - people have made up themselves in some outraged defensive frenzy because they cant believe somebody would have the gall to have a different taste in music from them.

flyswatter

Helix wrote: »

what if you have no rhythm or hand eye coordination? knowing how to hold your sticks wont count for much

You said it won't make you good or proficient, it's something that needs to be developed over several years.

Crooked Jack

Dramatik wrote: »

You can buy records that have tracks which have a c note which infinatly loops on them, by changing the pitch on the turntable (the speed that the record is playing at) you can change note being played.

Is this supposed to be good, cause all i see here is some guy ruining Killing In The Name Of and looking really smug while he does it.

leggo

Another myth perpetuated by those who don't know any better is that there's only skill in playing vinyl. People who argue that are just vinyl users resisting the future or people who don't have a clue that need a big shiny prop to try and formulate some BS opinion around.

That's not to say that there's no skill to playing vinyl, before someone takes me up wrong, that's not what I'm saying at all. It's a very valuable skill to have.

I learned on vinyl back when I was a teenager. Last year, the guy who taught me called me up and asked if he could come along to some gigs so he could learn to play digital. He picked it up but is still having massive problems giving his set that extra 'edge' so to speak, because he hadn't played in years so lagged behind.

Basically, DJ-ing to him had been all about track selection, beatmatch while the track is playing, then next track. And that sufficied back when he was playing, because it was all anyone knew. Now with samples, effects and so on, you can add an extra 10% to your set because beatmatching can be taken care of via syncing (I mostly sync these days an I'm not ashamed to admit it, because it gives me more time between songs to get things perfect: add samples/effects, cue up the next song to exactly the right spot so you don't lose energy in the transition, make sure it's harmonious, get the EQ-ing perfect etc. Though you have to still be able to manually beatmatch and use jog wheels because software can still do you wrong). You can give it that bit of oomph to send the dancefloor crazy. It was interesting to contrast how DJ-ing has actually progressed by watching someone of yesteryear fall that bit behind. He'll get there, though, I'm sure of it. But he just has to grasp that extra 10%.

The fact is: anyone who says there's no skill whatsoever to it is wrong. If you haven't stood there, made mistakes in your early days and see sure-fire floorfillers fall flat, learned from them and improved, seen sets go awry and have to change plans mid-set, read a crowd and see them react exactly as you wanted etc...you're just commenting with no actual experience to base your comment. And anyone who says it's easy, after that, is waffling to make themselves sound better than they actually are. Or they've just plateaued, because the moment you find it easy, you should still be adding to your performance and improving.

No sensible DJ would claim to be an artist or rocket scientist, and if they do they're an arsehole who shouldn't be listened to as authorities on the subject. But to say there's no skill is to, simply, have no clue what you're talking about.

AnalogueKid

leggo wrote: »

No sensible DJ would claim to be an artist or rocket scientist, and if they do they're an arsehole who shouldn't be listened to as authorities on the subject. But to say there's no skill is to, simply, have no clue what you're talking about.

Well said! There's a skill to it, I'm sure ... It's the inflated egos who believe they are artists (and there's a lot of them). Barmen are skilled too, but never worshipped

BetterCallSaul

I wish I could just push play and this would happen.

Intensive Care Bear

That Jeff Mills video is a perfect example, if you think thats easy to do you obviously don't have any knowledge of djing.

Helix

flyswatter wrote: »

You said it won't make you good or proficient, it's something that needs to be developed over several years.

like djing?

flyswatter

Helix wrote: »

like djing?

No. I just don't think it's a fair comparison, as you said yourself the beatmatching (0.1%) compared, when they aren't equal in importance.