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Samantha Brick & Aborting Down's Syndrome babies...

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13567…15

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    #62
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    g'em wrote: »
    Alright so. If that's the highly defensive way you choose to interpret it, work away. I believe in choices and respect other people's right to them. I was merely offering another Opinion and pointed out it was a thoughtline I'd experienced myself.

    ?You said people on the thread (otherwise who is it your talking to?) were saying that they would abort a DS feotus. I didnt see anyone saying that.


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    #63
    xeiramnnax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22 ✭xeiramnnax


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    So you're saying that the solution to this is to force people into carrying a foetus full term even if it's against their will?

    Look, people can do what they want in life. Make it public and people will have opinions. I would never consider forcing anyone into anything, but it's a sad state of affairs when a woman who can go out and spend what €10,000 minimum (I don't know figures) and who has obviously wanted and been unable to have children can end a pregnancy because of DS.


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    #64
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    splashthecash wrote: »
    I don't understand you comment? Its the parents decision whether they want to have a child - they go through the process (whether it be the natural way or IVF or whatever), that is a decision they make.....and then after, decide "nah its not what I was thinking of to be honest?"

    You asked who were the parents to decide for the baby, who were they to decide the baby should exist ? If the decision to create a child is valid then so must be the decision to abort it.


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    #65
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Corkfeen wrote: »
    Why exactly do we keep drawing attention to Samantha Brick articles? I couldn't care less what her opinion is on any subject.

    The DS angle is irrelevant. It boils down to the standard abortion debate and peopels right to choose. The reasons they have are their own.


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    #66
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    xeiramnnax wrote: »
    Look, people can do what they want in life.

    Except abortion among other things.


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    #67
    g'em
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,819 ✭✭✭✭g'em


    SocSocPol wrote: »
    Its as good a reason as any to terminate a pregnancy, and probably a better reason than most. No issue with it really.

    I'm reading that as someone stating its a good reason to terminate, am I wrong? (Not a go at SocSocPol), GuyI is playing the pedant game.


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    #68
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    syndeyfife wrote: »
    I didnt think Id 'want' a child with cerebral palsy, but i have one now and i wouldnt change him for the world.
    Well of course, that's biology. Once a mother see's her child she's hooked, there's a big difference between the possibilities of an unborn child and a child that's actually in your arms.

    I think a person is in the mind, so I don't hold anything against anyone who'd choose to abort. Disabilities aren't that much of a problem in this day and age but if your at a disadvantage mentally life is going to be very difficult and probably heartbreaking when realisations that some of life's experiences may be out of their reach.

    I don't believe that there's a magical soul so stopping those kind of problems before they can happen makes logical sense to me and I think people should have the right to make that decision for themselves.


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    #69
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    No I probably wouldn't but I don't think I would harsh anyone too harshly if they did especially if they had lots of children.


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    #70
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    Ah this is such a controversial subject. I'm pro-choice but I would never go through with one myself unless either myself or my baby were in danger...but if someone decided to have one for whatever reason, then that's their decision.


    My uncle has Down Syndrome and I love him to pieces. Couldn't imagine my life without him in it. He brings us a huge amount of joy. I couldn't go through with this myself personally but I still don't believe I've the right to prevent anyone from making that choice. It's not black and white.


    Does anyone know at what stage this can be detected?


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    #71
    jay-me
    Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭jay-me


    The fact that I can write this means I wasn't aborted.. Same to everyone else.. But if life had taken a different course none of us would be here.. So I disagree with abortion period.. I know a guy who is the result of his mother being raped by her father.. He is a great guy with a sad past but he is alive!! If he had been aborted he would be no more.. My Gf has a cousin with severe DS and he is a lovely kid as others said always smiling and happy and literally the centre of his family!

    Had he been aborted he would never have been a part of any of the many lives he touches and this to me is the stark reality of abortion..


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    #72
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    Why do people continue to discuss this womans opinions?

    P.S isnt aborting a baby with downs syndrome a selfish act on behalf of the parents.


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    #73
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    g'em wrote: »
    I'm reading that as someone stating its a good reason to terminate, am I wrong? (Not a go at SocSocPol), GuyI is playing the pedant game.

    Nothing pedantic. You stated that people were saying they would abort a DS feotus of their own. I said supporting someone elses right to choose is not the same as doing it themselves. I dont see what your finding hard in that.

    I'm sure there are many people in Ireland that would vote to legalise abortion but wouldnt ever use that option themselves.


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    #74
    mauzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭mauzo


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    Ah this is such a controversial subject. I'm pro-choice but I would never go through with one myself unless either myself or my baby were in danger...but if someone decided to have one for whatever reason, then that's their decision.


    My uncle has Down Syndrome and I love him to pieces. Couldn't imagine my life without him in it. He brings us a huge amount of joy. I couldn't go through with this myself personally but I still don't believe I've the right to prevent anyone from making that choice. It's not black and white.


    Does anyone know at what stage this can be detected?

    Normally in Dublin you'll have a scan for dating/measurements around the 20 week mark. That would normally be when it is detected.
    Amnios are best done between 15-22 weeks.


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    #75
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    jay-me wrote: »
    The fact that I can write this means I wasn't aborted.. Same to everyone else.. But if life had taken a different course none of us would be here.. So I disagree with abortion period.. I know a guy who is the result of his mother being raped by her father.. He is a great guy with a sad past but he is alive!! If he had been aborted he would be no more.. My Gf has a cousin with severe DS and he is a lovely kid as others said always smiling and happy and literally the centre of his family!

    Had he been aborted he would never have been a part of any of the many lives he touches and this to me is the stark reality of abortion..

    Do you disagree with contraception on the same grounds ? Thinking drinking should be compulsory cos your da was hammered when you were conceived ?


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    #76
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    jay-me wrote: »

    Had he been aborted he would never have been a part of any of the many lives he touches and this to me is the stark reality of abortion..

    And none of those people would know or care because of the fact they never existed. Someone else would have been in their lives.


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    #77
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    It's one of my 'unpopular opinions' although never said it in that long running thread. I think mentally disabled people as a whole contribute nothing to society and if detected in time should be aborted...

    Ahem...

    /controversial opinion.


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    #78
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    syndeyfife wrote: »
    Normally in Dublin you'll have a scan for dating/measurements around the 20 week mark. That would normally be when it is detected.
    Amnios are best done between 15-22 weeks.

    It's very late in the pregnancy.


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    #79
    MistyCheese
    Registered Users Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭MistyCheese


    I don't care about anything this woman says. Even if she were to say "I think MistyCheese should be awarded a trophy and €10,000 cash" because she is only saying these to get attention. She makes contraversial statements so that people will talk about what she has said which gives her an ego boost. She can fool herself into thinking that she has said something important, because people are talking about it.

    She is that person who will do anything for attention and it doesn't matter to her whether the attention is positive, eg praise, or negative, eg people calling her a supercilious moron. In school she undoubtedly told ridiculous far-fetched stories that people listened to (perhaps out of curiosity, wondering what nonsense she'd come out with next) because she liked to have people listen to her. Later, when everyone was talking about how stupid Sam's tall tales were she would still revel in the fact that people were still talking about her. I imagine any negative comments were rejected instantly with self-assurances that "they're just jealous".

    The best way to deal with her is to completely ignore her. She has no skills to keep her in ther media other than her opinions. She is undoubtedly basking in all the attention her opinions are generting. She soaks up even the negative attention so leaving comments such as "she has a face like a bulldog chewing a wasp" or "if only she'd been aborted when she was a fetus" only gives this woman fodder on which she will happily exist for a while until she requires further attention at which point she will say something else contraversial to the media.


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    #80
    g'em
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,819 ✭✭✭✭g'em


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Nothing pedantic. You stated that people were saying they would abort a DS feotus of their own. I said supporting someone elses right to choose is not the same as doing it themselves. I dont see what your finding hard in that.
    I never said I wouldnt support someone's else's choice. You're reading an inference that does not exist. I think you're missing the point of my post by a country mile.

    I agree with choice.
    I respect others choices.
    I merely offer an opinion directed at posters who - it reads to me - are discussing DS as a horrific existence for a child. I don't see it that way and that's all I was trying to say.

    ok?


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    #81
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    It's one of my 'unpopular opinions' although never said it in that long running thread. I think mentally disabled people as a whole contribute nothing to society and if detected in time should be aborted...

    Ahem...

    /controversial opinion.


    Neither do a large percentage of mentally capable people


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    #82
    coffee_cake
    Registered Users Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    jay-me wrote: »
    The fact that I can write this means I wasn't aborted.. Same to everyone else.. But if life had taken a different course none of us would be here.. So I disagree with abortion period

    I have no idea how the first part leads to the last sentence
    if your mother had given your father a blowjob instead on that particular day you wouldn't be here
    if she'd fallen off a bike or tripped up you wouldn't be here
    if she hadn't met him by chance in the first place you wouldn't be here

    you wouldn't exist, nobody would know, end of


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    #83
    mauzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭mauzo


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    It's very late in the pregnancy.

    Pregnancy lasts 40 weeks so no not really.

    If youre private, you'd get a scan at 14 weeks maybe for dating purposes, it may be detected then, but thats a maybe.


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    #84
    jay-me
    Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭jay-me


    LordSmeg wrote: »
    Do you disagree with contraception on the same grounds ? Thinking drinking should be compulsory cos your da was hammered when you were conceived ?

    On both counts yes!


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    #85
    Napper Hawkins
    Registered Users Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭Napper Hawkins


    jay-me wrote: »
    The fact that I can write this means I wasn't aborted.. Same to everyone else.. But if life had taken a different course none of us would be here.. So I disagree with abortion period.. I know a guy who is the result of his mother being raped by her father.. He is a great guy with a sad past but he is alive!! If he had been aborted he would be no more.. My Gf has a cousin with severe DS and he is a lovely kid as others said always smiling and happy and literally the centre of his family!

    Had he been aborted he would never have been a part of any of the many lives he touches and this to me is the stark reality of abortion..

    It's a good thing Hitler was aborted so! Oh wait..


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    #86
    coffee_cake
    Registered Users Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    syndeyfife wrote: »
    Pregnancy lasts 40 weeks so no not really.

    If youre private, you'd get a scan at 14 weeks maybe for dating purposes, it may be detected then, but thats a maybe.

    very late for considering an abortion though


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    #87
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    g'em wrote: »
    I never said I wouldnt support someone's else's choice. You're reading an inference that does not exist. I think you're missing the point of my post by a country mile.

    I agree with choice.
    I respect others choices.
    I merely offer an opinion directed at posters who - it reads to me - are discussing DS as a horrific existence for a child. I don't see it that way and that's all I was trying to say.

    ok?

    No, you made a fairly definate statement that posters in this thread said they would abort their own DS Feotus.
    g'em wrote: »
    Genuine question for the people who have (fairly bravely and amazingly) said that they would abort a Down's Syndrome baby:


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    #88
    g'em
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,819 ✭✭✭✭g'em


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    No, you made a fairly definate statement that posters in this thread said they would abort their own DS Feotus.

    I give up.

    you win the internet.


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    #89
    mauzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭mauzo


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    It's very late in the pregnancy.

    Sorry should have said, it also depends on other factors. Age of the mother, if shes high risk, previous miscarriages, if she has had healthy pregnancies before, public or private etc.

    Your first scan will be in the first trimester, but thats for nothing more than dating really.


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    #90
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    jay-me wrote: »
    The fact that I can write this means I wasn't aborted.. Same to everyone else.. But if life had taken a different course none of us would be here.. So I disagree with abortion period.. I know a guy who is the result of his mother being raped by her father.. He is a great guy with a sad past but he is alive!! If he had been aborted he would be no more.. My Gf has a cousin with severe DS and he is a lovely kid as others said always smiling and happy and literally the centre of his family!

    Had he been aborted he would never have been a part of any of the many lives he touches and this to me is the stark reality of abortion..
    I don't really get this line of reasoning. People being nice and having a good effect on others isn't really much of an arguments against abortion. If it's going to be used then I may as well say that if Hitler or (insert evil person's here) was aborted then they wouldn't have been able to inflict the pain that they did.


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    #91
    jay-me
    Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭jay-me


    bluewolf wrote: »
    I have no idea how the first part leads to the last sentence
    if your mother had given your father a blowjob instead on that particular day you wouldn't be here
    if she'd fallen off a bike or tripped up you wouldn't be here
    if she hadn't met him by chance in the first place you wouldn't be here

    you wouldn't exist, nobody would know, end of

    My point is if she had made a conscious choice to abort me I wouldn't be here!


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