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Samantha Brick & Aborting Down's Syndrome babies...

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    #92
    Gmol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Gmol


    Why do people not take responsibilty for their actions, every one wants the 'designer' baby but the fact is all children are not the same and deciding to abort a child just because they are not perfect is an awful decision to make. Yes live becomes a lot more difficult and may not be what people envisaged but thats part of what being an adult is about, taking responsibility for your actions and not aborting a child because you don't like the outcome.


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    #93
    coffee_cake
    Registered Users Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    jay-me wrote: »
    My point is if she had made a conscious choice to abort me I wouldn't be here!

    my point is a million things could have happened to mean you wouldn't be here - i doubt you give a damn about any of those
    this is no different, you still wouldn't exist


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    #94
    jay-me
    Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭jay-me


    Napper Hawkins wrote: »
    It's a good thing Hitler was aborted so! Oh wait..

    Pity Einstein was aborted.. Oh wait...


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    #95
    mauzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭mauzo


    bluewolf wrote: »
    very late for considering an abortion though

    As far as I know you have until 24 weeks.....but Im really not sure!


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    #96
    jay-me
    Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭jay-me


    bluewolf wrote: »
    my point is a million things could have happened to mean you wouldn't be here - i doubt you give a damn about any of those
    this is no different, you still wouldn't exist

    A million things might happen to prevent brick from having a DS baby but the defining point here is her choice not to!


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    #97
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Wacker The Attacker wrote: »
    Neither do a large percentage of mentally capable people

    Very true but as a general rule of thumb they take of themselves. Parents having to dedicate their lives to taking care of someone who literally cannot survive without their care (and the assistance of the state) and then after the parent(s) dies going into care with another family member or more likely again the state is nothing but a burden.


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    #98
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    jay-me wrote: »
    Pity Einstein was aborted.. Oh wait...
    Pity Anders Brevik was aborted..... oh wait.

    This is a fun game, I like fun.


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    #99
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    g'em wrote: »
    I give up.

    you win the internet.

    You should have just said at the start you wanted to be let make inncorrect statements and not be called on it, you could have saved us all a few minutes.


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    #100
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    jay-me wrote: »
    A million things might happen to prevent brick from having a DS baby but the defining point here is her choice not to!

    No, like Bluewolf said it's JUST as defining that your parents had sex which in turn conceived you, rather than your mother needing to 'wash her hair' at that moment in time.


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    #101
    kfallon
    Registered Users Posts: 25,775 ✭✭✭✭kfallon


    I'm not into abortion tbh for the simple fact that the woman who gave birth to me prob considered it seriously. Luckily for me (and unluckily for you) she had me and gave me up but I've no doubt she either considered it or else had it suggested to her.

    Having said that if somebody was to go thru with one I'd not hold it against them. Not all circumstances are the same and who am I to judge anybody on the choices they make.

    As for Samantha Brick, why does anybody actually ask her opinion on anything???


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    #102
    jay-me
    Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭jay-me


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    No, like Bluewolf said it's JUST as defining that your parents had sex which in turn conceived you, rather than your mother needing to 'wash her hair' at that moment in time.

    The point is not whether brick washes her hair on a given day and has her IVF on a different one the point is if she see's that the result of her IVF is a DS baby then she will abort it! Not an element of chance in that it is a predefined choice by her!


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    #103
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    jay-me wrote: »
    The point is not whether brick washes her hair on a given day and has her IVF on a different one the point is if she see's that the result of her IVF is a DS baby then she will abort it! Not an element of chance in that it is a predefined choice by her!

    I haven't read the article as it's blocked in work, but did she say what her choice would be? I don't think she did.


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    #104
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    syndeyfife wrote: »
    Pregnancy lasts 40 weeks so no not really.

    If youre private, you'd get a scan at 14 weeks maybe for dating purposes, it may be detected then, but thats a maybe.

    20 weeks is late in the pregnancy. Most countries wouldn't allow an abortion at this stage.


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    #105
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    I would continue a pregnancy with a child with DS, or any other disability, as I would a pregnancy with a healthy baby.

    I can't imagine my feelings changing for my baby just cause of a disability. DS screening can only be done accurately late in pregnancy - If I had accepted my pregnancy, and wanted my baby, I don't see how it could change things so far along. It would still be the same baby I had accepted and wanted and loved all along.

    Abortion might be the right choice for other people, but it would never be the right choice for me. Each to their own, just not something I would do personally.


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    #106
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    g'em wrote: »
    Genuine question for the people who have (fairly bravely and amazingly) said that they would abort a Down's Syndrome baby:

    Have you ever known or cared for or loved a person with Down's Syndrome? A more loving, kind, full-of-life person you could not wish to meet. They have an attitude and take on life that I really don't think non-Down's individuals can have. At one time I think I would have seen a Down's baby as being a burden, a life sentence and someone that I would tie me down until my later years. But with my hand on my heart I have never experienced anything but joy with a child or adult with Down's. They have all been wonderful.

    The only 'burden' in having a child with Down's is the stigma attached to them.

    In related news a Down Syndrome baby has just become a model for a Spanish swimwear company. She's only flipping gorgeous :)

    http://aww.ninemsn.com.au/style/fashion/8504787/down-syndrome-baby-becomes-swimwear-model

    Aw so beautiful :D


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    #107
    mauzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭mauzo


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    20 weeks is late in the pregnancy. Most countries wouldn't allow an abortion at this stage.

    Well then you'll have to google it because I genuinely havent a clue. Im training to be a midwife in a country that doesnt allow abortion lol


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    #108
    kfallon
    Registered Users Posts: 25,775 ✭✭✭✭kfallon


    WhiteRoses wrote: »
    I would continue a pregnancy with a child with DS, or any other disability, as I would a pregnancy with a healthy baby.

    I can't imagine my feelings changing for my baby just cause of a disability. DS screening can only be done accurately late in pregnancy - If I had accepted my pregnancy, and wanted my baby, I don't see how it could change things so far along. It would still be the same baby I had accepted and wanted and loved all along.

    Abortion might be the right choice for other people, but it would never be the right choice for me. Each to their own, just not something I would do personally.

    Children born with a disability, they just need a bit more loving, that's all :)


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    #109
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    I would think a positive result for a profound disability is an acceptable excuse for termination.

    It would be for me anyway.

    Not so sure how I feel about abortion of healthy pregnancies myself: I don't think I could get with the termination of a healthy pregnancy (at my stage in life and with a long-term partner) but I've no problem with women exercising their own choice in the matter.


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    #110
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Wonder if my parents knew in advance that I would be bald for the first four years, have sticking out (ish) ears, one foot bigger than the other and be a big dirty lesbian would they have aborted me??? Not being funny, but where do we draw the line? When we open the door called "lets abort the baby because it has x,y or z wrong with it"...how far does it go?


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    #111
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Wonder if my parents knew in advance that I would be bald for the first four years, have sticking out (ish) ears, one foot bigger than the other and be a big dirty lesbian would they have aborted me??? Not being funny, but where do we draw the line? When we open the door called "lets abort the baby because it has x,y or z wrong with it"...how far does it go?

    As far as you want: it being your own choice.


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    #112
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    stovelid wrote: »
    As far as you want: it being your own choice.

    Even to the point of aborting based on how the child will look? I find that quite scary tbh.


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    #113
    IrishAm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭IrishAm


    Abortion is murder. Make up all the excuses and arguments you want. Still murder.


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    #114
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Even to the point of aborting based on how the child will look? I find that quite scary tbh.
    Considering you usually won't know what the child will look like until after you give birth, then I think it's unlikely.


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    #115
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    20 weeks is late in the pregnancy. Most countries wouldn't allow an abortion at this stage.

    You can get an abortion in the UK up to 24 weeks.

    Your dating scan is at 12 weeks, and your anamoly scan at 20 weeks. They can also determine the gender at the 20 week scan too, if baby is cooperating.

    Pretty sure the amino is done at about 24-25 weeks, at least in my hospital it was done around then. They give you a statistic, ie. 1/4000 chance the baby will have DS or whatever.

    The only worry if the second figure is less than 100, ie. 1/100 or 1/60, at that stage they'll offer further screening.

    This is to the best of my knowledge, I could be wrong!


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    #116
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Double post :)


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    #117
    IrishAm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭IrishAm


    kfallon wrote: »
    Children born with a disability, they just need a bit more loving, that's all :)

    That's it. Any DS kids I've come into contact with are pretty amazing kids.


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    #118
    Napper Hawkins
    Registered Users Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭Napper Hawkins


    jay-me wrote: »
    Pity Einstein was aborted.. Oh wait...

    Hooray! A Jewish scientist was alive at some point! Meanwhile, so too would 6 million Jews (probably) if Adolf hadn't made it past that vagina!
    Abortion could have prevented ww3!

    On topic, personally can't stand the sight of them though ds people can be good craic. Not for me, thanks.

    I remember doing a weeks community service in a local home for the handicapped as part of transition year, I remember wondering aloud why the vast majority of the inmates (all severely mentally disabled to various degrees, downs, other conditions etc.) never seemed to have anyone visiting them. I was told quite simply that most of the families just didn't want to know. Patients pretty much dumped there and forgotten about. Great stuff I thought. I asked why would these families go through with having a mentally challenged baby if they were just gonna dump them here? Seems pretty ****ed up imo. I got a one word answer from the member of staff, "religion" she said. From that moment on I felt a new found hatred for this country that has yet to subside.


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    #119
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,293 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    I hope for the sake of the child that the IVF doesn't work.


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    #120
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Even to the point of aborting based on how the child will look? I find that quite scary tbh.

    Quit with the emotional reductionism. You know what I mean.


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    #121
    Piste
    Registered Users Posts: 11,440 ✭✭✭✭Piste


    blacklilly wrote: »
    You either agree with abortion or you don't, regardless of circumstances of conception.

    That's just not true at all. Across the pro-choice belief there is a whole spectrum of opinions. Some people believe in abortion only if the woman's life is at risk, some believe in it if a woman has been raped, some believe in it if a woman is at risk of suicide, some believe in it if the baby has severe disabilities, some believe in it if the mother can't look after the baby, some believe in it if the baby is the "wrong" gender.

    It's not just Abortion Good-vs-Abortion Bad.


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