Samantha Brick & Aborting Down's Syndrome babies...

Latchy

Stereomaniac wrote: »

I think also that anyone with a decent head on their shoulders isn't going to be swayed by something some "celebrity" says on such an important issue. I'd be very concerned if they were.

That's the problem ,like that dreadful Loose women programme which is supposed to be a debate about the important issues of the day ,as if they "the celebritys" have some greater insight or knowledge of them when the haven't and it all does is bring it back to them talking about themselves ,their husbands , their holidays , their homes , their divorces ,their likes/dislikes etc .

hatrickpatrick

Samantha Brick must be one of the world's first "professional trolls".
Seriously, she belongs on 4chan, not in the newspaper...

EDIT: I deeply apologize to my fellow Boardsies for libeling the Daily Mail by bestowing the status of "newspaper" unto it.

cocoshovel

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Samantha Brick must be one of the world's first "professional trolls".
Seriously, she belongs on 4chan, not in the newspaper...

EDIT: I deeply apologize to my fellow Boardsies for libeling the Daily Mail by bestowing the status of "newspaper" unto it.

I dont think she is trolling.

hatrickpatrick

cocoshovel wrote: »

I dont think she is trolling.

You obviously missed the whole "Women hate me because I'm hot and they're jealous" debacle then? Her grand journalistic debut, indeed.

Einhard

I wish someone had aborted Samantha Brick.

She's a troll. Nothing more.

And she has in her arse discussed whether they'd abort a hypothetical Down Syndrome child.

iguana

syndeyfife wrote: »

Normally in Dublin you'll have a scan for dating/measurements around the 20 week mark. That would normally be when it is detected.
Amnios are best done between 15-22 weeks.

In most western countries the strong possibility of DS is detected through a Nuchal Fold test by 12 weeks. If the NF measurements suggest DS, a CVS is then ordered. DS can be detected by the start of the 2nd trimester.

Personally I would consider an abortion if my child was likely to have any lifelong disability. I have plenty of experience of people with DS and would be lying to say that raising such a child is something I would have any confidence I would do well. I would certainly never be willing to have a 2nd child if I already had one who needed special care. I don't know if I would actually go through with the abortion or if I would come to terms with the situation but I would be looking at all my options.

the groutch

wtf? she's married???
her husband should have gone to Specsavers.

Min

I grew up with a relation who had Down Syndrome, the amount of prejudice they receive from some people shows it is not the person with DS who has the problem but the people who look down on people with DS.

It is sad the discrimination that exists towards people who simply have a medical condition, which is no excuse to not allow them to live.

RaRaRasputin

I wonder when Irish people will ever learn to keep their noses out of other peoples' business. It's the decision of each couple and not yours, and if they have to make a difficult decision like that it would surely rather help them to be understood/ left uncriticised rather than having a whole lot of people judging them.


I especially like the people here who claim that they are completely against abortions but wish that the parents of others, who disagree with them, should have been aborted. You made my day!

mauzo

RaRaRasputin wrote: »

I especially like the people here who claim that they are completely against abortions but wish that the parents of others, who disagree with them, should have been aborted. You made my day!

Aw, shucks....

genericguy

I would expect my partner to agree with me that an abortion would be necessary in the case a disability was detected if she were pregnant. I just wouldn't be prepared to deal with the lifelong care required. Selfish? Yeah, probably, but to be honest i feel that if more people who weren't heppy with the prospect of raising a child they didn't really want had an abortion the world would be a better place.

and no, god squad, i'm not trolling. I'm just honest.

Medusa22

It depends on the condition really, I don't have any interest in having children but I do think that people with down syndrome can have relatively normal lives and more importantly they are usually happy. However, it really annoys me when people assume that a person is selfish for aborting a child with a disease, I think that they are often thinking of how the child will suffer and not about how they will cope taking care of it. I have a genetic condition and I think it is selfish when parents continue to have children with this disease after having one, they always say ''oh I know that it will be hard work but we are so willing to do it''....not thinking of how the child will suffer at all.

mauzo

genericguy wrote: »

god squad

Love it

steddyeddy

davet82 wrote: »

Does she have a point? Would you abort a child because it was diagnosed with Downs?

I think this women is delusional attention grabbing idiot anyways...

I dont agree with abortion so this wouldnt be an issue for me but for those that do, would you consider aborting a child with Downs Syndrome?

She is an attention seeker but she brings up an interesting question. Im on the fence as regards abortion. If the parents of the foetus want to abort I wouldnt have strong feelings about it either way unless its for a stupid reason like I dont like a child with brown eyes ect. Im not pro life but I would be offended at someone who aborted for something as trivial as the above reason. Even so I think it would be very difficult to legislate for abortion that excludes the right to abort for any reason. The couple in question could just lie.

As regards the people who use the arguement that the foetus is just a collection of cells (which it is in fairness) they should have no qualms about people aborting for whatever reason.

hatrickpatrick

the groutch wrote: »

wtf? she's married???
her husband should have gone to Specsavers.

Forget her looks, even the hottest appearance in the world couldn't possibly make up for her personality. I felt really sorry for the poor lad when she published that article justifying the fact that she reads all his texts and emails, and quizzes him on any girl's name she doesn't know - she's literally a parody of that "Overly Attached Girlfriend" meme and her husband is either incredibly whipped, or has a higher more patience than our Savior himself.

davet82

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

That´s a ridiculous comparison.

admitedly

NIMAN

... and this woman's opinion on abortion and Down's makes the news because?

Why not mine? Or yours? Or a consultants?

Has she even had to make the choice? Or is it just an random opinion that popped into her head?

Christ the media are so useless these days, they will talk to absolute idiots to fill column inches or internet websites.

Why not ask her what she thinks of the Syrian situation too while you're at it.

Smeggy

We may not all agree on abortion but we all agree this woman is a tit!

NIMAN

She's had her 15mins, please let her go back to her mundane life now. Please.

fitzYOLO

There is no discussion here ,it is the mother's choice no matter what. If she wants to abort then let her, why should she live with something she does not love because of the hang ups a group of people that don't even know her have.

You self righteous pro-lifers wanna save some kids? Then go do some charity work in Africa instead of wasting your lives dictating what others should do with theirs.

Wildlife Actor

fitzYOLO wrote: »

You self righteous pro-lifers wanna save some kids? Then go do some charity work in Africa instead of wasting your lives dictating what others should do with theirs.

But you see, this is the point that the self righteous pro-lifers are making. It's just that the "other" life they're concerned about is that of the foetus/child.

Personally, I think there comes a point after X weeks (in my head 12-16) where it becomes a child. Before that, I'm happy it does not know or experience anything, is therefore not a human being, and abortion needs no moral justification. After that, it needs the same moral justification as euthanasia (e.g. is Samantha Brick).

There has to be a point where we all agree that it is human. It really can't be as late as birth.

Aaaagh I've posted in an abortion thread! Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo........

Wacker The Attacker

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Very true but as a general rule of thumb they take of themselves. Parents having to dedicate their lives to taking care of someone who literally cannot survive without their care (and the assistance of the state) and then after the parent(s) dies going into care with another family member or more likely again the state is nothing but a burden.

But is that a worthy enough reason to terminate the live of a human before it has even begun its life

grindle

Love nor Money wrote: »

Personally, I think there comes a point after X weeks (in my head 12-16) where it becomes a child. Before that, I'm happy it does not know or experience anything, is therefore not a human being, and abortion needs no moral justification. After that, it needs the same moral justification as euthanasia (e.g. is Samantha Brick).

Those letters in bold tell the tale.

Different people share different distinctions, and whoever thinks they're the moral compass (which is usually the populist moral compass - Lowest Common Denominator) and shouts the loudest gets to "win".

If somebody has an abortion after the arbitrary 12-16 week figure given, the child knows nothing about it, you know nothing about it, and the potential parent has flung the albatross from their neck.

If somebody can't have an abortion because of the arbitrary 12-16 week figure given, the child is unwanted, potentially unloved, the parent's unhappy, potentially suicidal, and the nosey moralists get to feel great about themselves for having a say in a situation that doesn't concern them.

Yay! You've saved a potential child from death and delivered them into a potentially tortuous life as their resentful, embittered parent takes out "what could have been" on them. Hurrah!
Can you put a price on such love?

Colmustard

People make this decision all the time in private. She just wrote about publically what she would decide. I wouldn't judge anyone for getting an abortion for whatever reasons.

im invisible

g'em wrote: »

....

In related news a Down Syndrome baby has just become a model for a Spanish swimwear company. She's only flipping gorgeous
http://aww.ninemsn.com.au/style/fashion/8504787/down-syndrome-baby-becomes-swimwear-model

missed the word 'baby' in that, had my belt unbuckled and all...
i'd be into weird ****, but thats just too far

Canis Lupus

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

But is that a worthy enough reason to terminate the live of a human before it has even begun its life

For me, being blunt, yes. But I'm a man and never intend to have children anyway so I hope it's not an opinion I ever have to put to the test.

Ms.M

Having a baby with DS is no tragedy. There's no point trying to change peoples' minds that would abort in this scenario but I would worry what would happen if their kids became difficult for other reasons. Children can get seriously injured, get sexually abused, become drug addicts, turn out to be serial killers with frontal lobe damage, be paralysed, be very impressionable and join a far-right Nazi group, whatever. If you genuinely couldn't cope with a child with DS maybe you should consider whether having kids at all is a good idea. You might be young though OP, I certainly wouldn't have been able to cope with becoming a parent until I reached a certain age. I mean a DS baby isn't going to become a crack whore, and probably isn't going to be an arsehole. And they're quite likely to break our heart no matter what condition they come to us in. If you have a perfect idea of family life in mind, you might end up disheartened and miserable. Just a thought.
p.s That's a really depressing conversation to have with your missus.

pickarooney

Is the disproportionately high number of children born with Down Syndrome in Ireland more to do with the smaller genetic pool or the unavailability of abortion?

If you could tell me with certainty, in utero, that my child would turn out to be a crack whore or have a paralyzing accident at age 5 then I would most likely want to end it there and then. Trying to account for all the what ifs is just silly.

Ms.M

Fair enough, to each their own but nobody can tell you that with certainty. I'm not implying that everybody who'd consider aborting a DS baby would do it for "I just couldn't cope" reasons, but for those that do, for those that think they wouldn't be able to cope with anything but a high-functioning perfect bambino, they should consider whether conceiving in the fist place is worth the risk. They're very likely to be disappointed.

DS isn't genetic at all. It's just a chromosomal abnormality. There is the lack of family-planning in old Catholic Ireland; people having kids when they were probably too old to. The risk increases with the age of the mother.

OldNotWIse

fitzYOLO wrote: »

There is no discussion here ,it is the mother's choice no matter what. If she wants to abort then let her, why should she live with something she does not love because of the hang ups a group of people that don't even know her have.

You self righteous pro-lifers wanna save some kids? Then go do some charity work in Africa instead of wasting your lives dictating what others should do with theirs.

Indeed....and while we are on the subject, I assume all those bleating on about the rights of the woman are busy fighting against the oppression and violence that so many women experience in our world.

You ask if I am in Africa doing charity work? Where were all of you when an innocent woman was shot dead in front of a mob of men in Afghanistan because her husband accused her of cheating?