British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Fishooks12

jm08 wrote: »

So who is at international level - can't remember any outstanding carries from anyone in the last 5 internationals that he wasn't playing in.

Jesus man, do you really believe that?

Basically the entire pack bar Ross can get better front foot ball than POC

He rarely gets turned over but his ball carrying is so ineffective that it borders on the ridiculous how much Kidney uses it

yimrsg

Phog (I think) did a spreadsheet of the Irish players stats at the WC. Here's the carrys and metres made from it.

POC carried 36 times and totalled 37m.
Cullen carried 3 times and totalled 6m.
DOC carried 12 times and totalled 8m.
Ryan carried 10 times and totalled 28m.

Best carried 25 times and totalled 48m.
Healy carried 28 times and totalled 57m.
Ross carried 8 times and totalled 12m.
Buckley carried 7 times and totalled 17m.
Court carried 2 times and totalled 3m.
Cronin carried 9 times and totalled 12m.
Flannery carried 1 time and totalled 4m.

SOB carried 67 times and totalled 201m.
Ferris carried 38 times and totalled 112m.
Heaslip carried 35 times and totalled 130m.
Jennings carried 8 times and totalled 5m.
Leamy carried 10 times and totalled 34m.

POC has the 3rd lowest average metres gained out of 16 Irish forwards (Jennings and DOC are the lowest). He's nowhere near being a good or effective ball carrier.

totallegend

yimrsg wrote: »

POC has the 3rd lowest average metres gained out of 16 Irish forwards (Jennings and DOC are the lowest). He's nowhere near being a good or effective ball carrier.

Thanks, stats to back up what anyone who watches even a minimal amount of rugby already knew.

Can we go back to the Lions now?

jacothelad

yimrsg wrote: »

Phog (I think) did a spreadsheet of the Irish players stats at the WC. Here's the carrys and metres made from it.

POC carried 36 times and totalled 37m.
Cullen carried 3 times and totalled 6m.
DOC carried 12 times and totalled 8m.
Ryan carried 10 times and totalled 28m.

Best carried 25 times and totalled 48m.
Healy carried 28 times and totalled 57m.
Ross carried 8 times and totalled 12m.
Buckley carried 7 times and totalled 17m.
Court carried 2 times and totalled 3m.
Cronin carried 9 times and totalled 12m.
Flannery carried 1 time and totalled 4m.

SOB carried 67 times and totalled 201m.
Ferris carried 38 times and totalled 112m.
Heaslip carried 35 times and totalled 130m.
Jennings carried 8 times and totalled 5m.
Leamy carried 10 times and totalled 34m.

POC has the 3rd lowest average metres gained out of 16 Irish forwards (Jennings and DOC are the lowest). He's nowhere near being a good or effective ball carrier.

Yes but you are missing the point JM08 was making. He carried very well. Just not very far. Perhaps the best carrier in the sense of style. No one else can fall over like a telegraph pole struck by lightning. He really snaffles that ball well in to his midriff before he begins to think about moving his feet - which perhaps explains why he trips over them so easily. Sometimes it's as if he tries to move both feet forward at the same time. Pure class.:D

Otacon

I wouldn't mind seeing POC carrying the ball, as has been said, he rarely loses it and does take in more than one defender usually. However, he is no ability to break tackles, has very little pace and even when he does do it and takes in defenders, we never utilise this with quick ball.

If POC travels with the Lions, I would bet that POC rarely touches the ball besides at lineouts!

GerM

The thing is, 10 years ago, POC was a good carrier. He was mobile, quick and didn't seem to knock on nearly as much (my memory could be wrong on the knock ons). There was a video posted before of a great Munster try where POC broke through, galloping downfield before it was recycled and fed out to the wing for John Hayes to barrel over. Can't recall who it was against but you'd think it was a different player. Somewhere along the line, POC's role completely changed and that aspect of his game was entirely lost to him. Now when he gets the ball in open play the main worry is if he'll actually catch it cleanly.

bamboozle

GerM wrote: »

The thing is, 10 years ago, POC was a good carrier. He was mobile, quick and didn't seem to knock on nearly as much (my memory could be wrong on the knock ons). There was a video posted before of a great Munster try where POC broke through, galloping downfield before it was recycled and fed out to the wing for John Hayes to barrel over. Can't recall who it was against but you'd think it was a different player. Somewhere along the line, POC's role completely changed and that aspect of his game was entirely lost to him. Now when he gets the ball in open play the main worry is if he'll actually catch it cleanly.

thing is i reckon he's had to sacrafice agility and speed to bulk up...he's the type of build that when he retires the weight will drop off him.. (his golf game has also suffered)

POC is a great, inspirational player, great at many things and really valuable on the pitch...but a ball carrier he aint, 2nd rows in general (R.Gray aside) shouldnt really carry as they dont have the low center of gravity needed to facilitate quick ruck ball. POC doesnt even come on to the ball at pace he's generally standing still between the 9-10 channel.

If kidney could do 2 things to improve the irish performances they'd be to have the front 5 clearing out rucks and have Sexton playing on the gainline rather than sitting deep.

all players have their weaknesses, BOD and Darcy cant kick snow off a rope etc but this doesnt make them bad players...it just means the teams tactics should be built around each players strong points.

stephen_n

bamboozle wrote: »

thing is i reckon he's had to sacrafice agility and speed to bulk up...he's the type of build that when he retires the weight will drop off him.. (his golf game has also suffered)

POC is a great, inspirational player, great at many things and really valuable on the pitch...but a ball carrier he aint, 2nd rows in general (R.Gray aside) shouldnt really carry as they dont have the low center of gravity needed to facilitate quick ruck ball. POC doesnt even come on to the ball at pace he's generally standing still between the 9-10 channel.

If kidney could do 2 things to improve the irish performances they'd be to have the front 5 clearing out rucks and have Sexton playing on the gainline rather than sitting deep.

all players have their weaknesses, BOD and Darcy cant kick snow off a rope etc but this doesnt make them bad players...it just means the teams tactics should be built around each players strong points.

Did he not come back nearly a stone lighter after the last long injury lay off?

solid oak

interesting to see how he comes back after latest injury, rumers starting again that its now all good

GerM

Going through the odds on players for positions makes interesting reading. If we were to select a side based upon them, we'd have the following as the test side aside from winger where there was no market although I suspect North, Ashton and Bowe lead the way there (Note, I'm only selecting the top player in a position, no asking a 12 to play 13 if he has shorter odds etc unless he genuinely plays there regularly):

1. Cian Healy
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Adam Jones
4. Richie Gray
5. POC
6. SOB
7. Warburton
8. Heaslip
9. Phillips
10. Sexton
11.
12. Roberts
13. Tuilagi
14.
15. Kearney

Shortest odds on anyone is Warburton at 2/9 followed by Sexton at 1/3. Ladbrokes have a generous 5/2 on Phillips to be the man wearing 9 next summer.

bamboozle

GerM wrote: »

Going through the odds on players for positions makes interesting reading. If we were to select a side based upon them, we'd have the following as the test side aside from winger where there was no market although I suspect North, Ashton and Bowe lead the way there (Note, I'm only selecting the top player in a position, no asking a 12 to play 13 if he has shorter odds etc unless he genuinely plays there regularly):

1. Cian Healy
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Adam Jones
4. Richie Gray
5. POC
6. SOB
7. Warburton
8. Heaslip
9. Phillips
10. Sexton
11.
12. Roberts
13. Tuilagi
14.
15. Kearney

Shortest odds on anyone is Warburton at 2/9 followed by Sexton at 1/3. Ladbrokes have a generous 5/2 on Phillips to be the man wearing 9 next summer.

Hartley?? I'd have thought Best a shoe in on current form, Hartley's only another gouge/bite away from another ban and falling off the radar like his buddy armitage.

its not beyond the realms of possibility that the 3 travelling hookers are Irish internationals...

anyway if only to see how far off the mark i am next summer here's my team

Healy
Best
Jones/Cole
Grey
POC
SOB/Lydiate
Warburton
Heaslip
Phillips
Sexton
North
Roberts
Davies
Bowe
Kearney

younger lads like Joe Marler, Hogg or Denton might have big seasons ahead, while the likes of Ryan, Lawes, Visser, Hook might be bang on form by the time the tour comes around.
Great season to look ahead to.

Volvic12

Very tough to call at the moment as so much can happen in a year.

Healy
Hartley (toss of coin with Best)
Meyler (Australia cant scrummage so his weakness will not be problem; his scrumaging is quickly getting better)
Grey
Lawes (D. Ryan will be v.close)
Robshaw
Tipuric (think he will have a huge year)
O Brien
Phillips (Although he struggles against Genia - Care might be better option)
Cipriani/Sexton
North
Roberts
O Driscoll/Earls
Ashton
Kearney

4 Irish, 6 English, 4 Welsh, 1 Scot

Tour Captain - Brian O Driscoll, Richie Gray or Mike Phillips

bamboozle

Volvic12 wrote: »

Very tough to call at the moment as so much can happen in a year.

Healy
Hartley (toss of coin with Best)
Meyler (Australia cant scrummage so his weakness will not be problem; his scrumaging is quickly getting better)
Grey
Lawes (D. Ryan will be v.close)
Robshaw
Tipuric (think he will have a huge year)
O Brien
Phillips (Although he struggles against Genia - Care might be better option)
Cipriani/Sexton
North
Roberts
O Driscoll/Earls
Ashton
Kearney

4 Irish, 6 English, 4 Welsh, 1 Scot

Tour Captain - Brian O Driscoll, Richie Gray or Mike Phillips

good call on Tipuric

Best >>>>>>>>>>> Hartley

bilston

Volvic12 wrote: »

Very tough to call at the moment as so much can happen in a year.

Healy
Hartley (toss of coin with Best)
Meyler (Australia cant scrummage so his weakness will not be problem; his scrumaging is quickly getting better)
Grey
Lawes (D. Ryan will be v.close)
Robshaw
Tipuric (think he will have a huge year)
O Brien
Phillips (Although he struggles against Genia - Care might be better option)
Cipriani/Sexton
North
Roberts
O Driscoll/Earls
Ashton
Kearney

4 Irish, 6 English, 4 Welsh, 1 Scot

Tour Captain - Brian O Driscoll, Richie Gray or Mike Phillips

I don't think I'm being biased but I really don't think Hartley and Best is close at all, not on last season anyway.

Volvic12

bilston wrote: »

I don't think I'm being biased but I really don't think Hartley and Best is close at all, not on last season anyway.

I agree with you. If it was picked right now, it would be R.Best. However, there is a long season ahead. Best is a year older and if England make progress (I think they will), SKY & the media will be pushing the English players.

Brewster

Rory for captain!? We could do a hell of a lot worse... I think there is something symbolic of your hooker leading the team, from the front literally...

Tox56

Volvic12 wrote: »

I agree with you. If it was picked right now, it would be R.Best. However, there is a long season ahead. Best is a year older and if England make progress (I think they will), SKY & the media will be pushing the English players.

It's already begun with Barnes suggesting Robshaw for captain.. He'd be a great captain for the midweek team but unless he has a huge season he'll be lucky to start for the main team let alone captain it.

bamboozle

Tox56 wrote: »

It's already begun with Barnes suggesting Robshaw for captain.. He'd be a great captain for the midweek team but unless he has a huge season he'll be lucky to start for the main team let alone captain it.

right now he's behind
Warburton
Tipuric
SOB

totallegend

Volvic12 wrote: »

Very tough to call at the moment as so much can happen in a year.

Healy
Hartley (toss of coin with Best)
Meyler (Australia cant scrummage so his weakness will not be problem; his scrumaging is quickly getting better)
Grey
Lawes (D. Ryan will be v.close)
Robshaw
Tipuric (think he will have a huge year)
O Brien
Phillips (Although he struggles against Genia - Care might be better option)
Cipriani/Sexton
North
Roberts
O Driscoll/Earls
Ashton
Kearney

4 Irish, 6 English, 4 Welsh, 1 Scot

Tour Captain - Brian O Driscoll, Richie Gray or Mike Phillips

I would be very surprised if Robshaw turns out to be a test starter, ditto Cipriani and Marler. Healy's chances depend hugely on Gethin Jenkins' absence and if Earls starts a test it will be on the wing.

I don't know if Richie Gray has any captaining experience, but if Mike Phillips is named tour captain, I'll delete my boards.ie account because it would mean I know nothing about rugby. There are at least 10 people who would be captain ahead of him.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Does anyone know if the lions will be 23 man squads like this years AIs?

thomond2006

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Does anyone know if the lions will be 23 man squads like this years AIs?

I'm not sure. If yes, it'll mean they'll probably have to bring two more props on tour.

CIARAN_BOYLE

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'm not sure. If yes, it'll mean they'll probably have to bring two more props on tour.

Thats what I was thinking yeah

Fireball07

Volvic12 wrote: »

Very tough to call at the moment as so much can happen in a year.

Healy
Hartley (toss of coin with Best)
Meyler (Australia cant scrummage so his weakness will not be problem; his scrumaging is quickly getting better)
Grey
Lawes (D. Ryan will be v.close)
Robshaw
Tipuric (think he will have a huge year)
O Brien
Phillips (Although he struggles against Genia - Care might be better option)
Cipriani/Sexton
North
Roberts
O Driscoll/Earls
Ashton
Kearney

4 Irish, 6 English, 4 Welsh, 1 Scot

Tour Captain - Brian O Driscoll, Richie Gray or Mike Phillips

Disagree with that tbh....there's no way England will or should have 6 players. Robshaw isn't good enough tbqh...Lawes doesn't even start for England all the time, both Irish 2nd rows are better and probably Charteris aswell.

irishbucsfan

By Meyler does he mean Joe Marler?

Hes a LH isn't he? He won't get near Healy.

val_jester

totallegend wrote: »

I would be very surprised if Robshaw turns out to be a test starter, ditto Cipriani and Marler. Healy's chances depend hugely on Gethin Jenkins' absence and if Earls starts a test it will be on the wing.

I don't know if Richie Gray has any captaining experience, but if Mike Phillips is named tour captain, I'll delete my boards.ie account because it would mean I know nothing about rugby. There are at least 10 people who would be captain ahead of him.

Robshaw won't be the captain, not a chance in hell. He is going to be pushed to make the tour in the first place. Depending on injuries there are a number of players ahead of him in all the backrow positions.

I think Healy will do enough this season, especially if he carries on playing like he was in NZ, to be ahead of Jenkin's even if he is released by Toulon.

RoundBox11

Fireball07 wrote: »

Disagree with that tbh....there's no way England will or should have 6 players. Robshaw isn't good enough tbqh...Lawes doesn't even start for England all the time, both Irish 2nd rows are better and probably Charteris aswell.

Not to mention Cipriani. I'd question my sanity if Cipriani even makes the squad.

Here's what i would like to see and what i imagine will be the starting 15:

What i want (What i'm expecting)
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Jones
4. Gray
5. POC (A.W Jones)
6. Ferris (Lydiate)
7. SOB (Warburton)
8. Morgan

9. Phillips (Although i don't particularly WANT him to start but there's so few options.)
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Davies
13. BOD (Tuilagi)
14. Visser
15. Kearney

.ak

I'd also like to see Tipuric in a lions shirt. I think he's class.

Fishooks12

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Not to mention Cipriani. I'd question my sanity if Cipriani even makes the squad.

I wouldn't.

We're very short at 10

We all know what he's capable of doing and he could offer something different to Sexton if he has a decent year in England

backawaygo onahead

This is an hilarious thread, clearly I won't mention any individual's bizarre selections for fear of robust moderation but keep it up lads some real howlers & very very funny.

The guy who said a lot can happen in the next year gets my vote as a sage.