British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Teferi

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

Yeah I wouldn't be so dismissive.

I wasn't being dismissive, Zebo is simply a step ahead of Gilroy at the moment.

wingnut

Deleted User wrote: »

Course he is.

+1 Who would you have ahead of him?

Artful_Badger

Deleted User wrote: »

Course he is.

He will probably start but noting is set in stone at this stage is what I mean. Ya just dont know what way the mid week games will go and what way Gatland will be going about the first test.

Artful_Badger

Teferi wrote: »

I wasn't being dismissive, Zebo is simply a step ahead of Gilroy at the moment.

Havent seen it myself. Gilroy should have went to NZ ahead of him and since they have both played well for club, played well for Ireland with Gilroy playing out the 6 nations pretty well which imo put him ahead of Zebo.

the baby bull elephant

Teferi wrote: »

I wasn't being dismissive, Zebo is simply a step ahead of Gilroy at the moment.

The nah was fairly dismissive imo. Don't think Zebo is as clearly ahead as you think or at all ahead. He's certainly not as good as the hype. He's a better kicker and fielder. While Gilroy is far better at beating a man and has better defense. Also is actually a left winger so a bit disadvantaged on the right. He'd be perfect for playing in Australia. Before people say Zebo be more suited I don't think he would. There's plenty of lightning wingers in Aus but they're generally delt with alright it's the ones who can really beat a man that excell.

Teferi

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Havent seen it myself. Gilroy should have went to NZ ahead of him and since they have both played well for club, played well for Ireland with Gilroy playing out the 6 nations pretty well which imo put him ahead of Zebo.

Agreed that Gilroy should have travelled but Zebo has come on something fierce this season, really upped his game in all areas and seems to have that ethereal x-factor that can create something out of nothing.

Artful_Badger

Teferi wrote: »

Agreed that Gilroy should have travelled but Zebo has come on something fierce this season, really upped his game in all areas and seems to have that ethereal x-factor that can create something out of nothing.

Yeah he seems to have it but thats not something you can bank on, Gilroy seemed to have it too, dont forget his try scoring when he got his chance for the wolfhounds and Ireland IX but you soon realise that its the more basic roles that are most important at the top level. From what I see Gilroy has proven himself a good defender with Ireland while retaining his attacking threat. Now maybe Zebo would have came out looking better if he didnt get injured I dont know. But he did get injured and while he was out I think Gilroy closed the gap Zebo opened up when he was selected ahead of him the year before.

Tox56

Artful_Badger wrote: »

He hasnt lost the ability to kick though and Halfpenny isnt nailed on test starter either. Sexton missed a lot of the 6 nations through injury too which doesnt help him and before that he wasnt setting the world of rugby alight either. Sexton is a better OH imo with or without the kicking. But he's not that much better as to leave Farrell looking like a school boy. Sexton's position in NH international rugby is largely due to lack of competition. Dont forget how short a time ago he was struggling to fend off ROG for the Irish spot, with ROG at the time being little different in regards ability when he dropped out of the Irish side behind Madigand and Jackson.

Farrell has emerged as his closest rival over the last few years and he's not just a kicker with nothing else to back it up. He might not be as good as Sexton as a running OH but he's a physical lad and he hasnt seemed out of his depth to me in running the ball. It just works best for England to let the pack grind out the kicking opportunities. Something Kidney would have sold his soul for too if it got us within a game of a grandslam. H's a world class kicker and a decent all rounder. Sexton is a great all rounder and a decent kicker. As OH options Sexton probably edges it but to say he's leaps and bounds ahead of every other NH OH is stretching it. Madigan has even stepped up with him injured to leave me as a Leinster fan not too pushed about losing this so called greatest OH in the NH. He's a fantastic player but he wont be competing with Dan Carter for world player of the year any time soon.....unlike Farrell

Few points:

- 1/2p is nailed on, even if Hogg somehow starts at 15 Halfpenny will be on wing
-ROG was a far better player pre-WC than the last few months, he's been comically bad recently, he was nowhere near that bad when competing with Sexton
- Farrell's world class kicking has no relevance if Halfpenny starts, my point is that he is only a "decent all rounder" as you put it. This is the Lions we're talking about, I think we need a lot more than that
- Madigan is a good player but I'm a Leinster fan who us very pushed Sexton is leaving, we will definitely miss him, possibly more than we realise
- "so called best OH in Europe".. You pretty much agreed with this opinion and now you're ridiculing it?!

Artful_Badger

Tox56 wrote: »

Few points:

- 1/2p is nailed on, even if Hogg somehow starts at 15 Halfpenny will be on wing

Why would be be on the wing out of interest ? Just for his goal kicking ? If Farrell starts would Halfpenny still start on the wing ?

-ROG was a far better player pre-WC than the last few months, he's been comically bad recently, he was nowhere near that bad when competing with Sexton

He was better but he was still relying on the same set of attributes he always had. If Sexton then had trouble fending off such a limited player then I dont understand how now he's all of a sudden leaps and bounds ahead of a player like Farrell. He's better yes but he's not making Farrell look bad. Farrell has done very well for himself over the last couple years.

- Farrell's world class kicking has no relevance if Halfpenny starts, my point is that he is only a "decent all rounder" as you put it. This is the Lions we're talking about, I think we need a lot more than that

Perhaps but as I said above the dynamic of the team isnt set in stone. Gatland might chose Farrell for his kicking and drop Halfpenny. As outrageous as that sounds to us now who knows whether Farrell, Kearney or Hogg might establish themselves as must starts in the mid week games. Or their counterparts blow cold for the warm up games.

- Madigan is a good player but I'm a Leinster fan who us very pushed Sexton is leaving, we will definitely miss him, possibly more than we realise
- "so called best OH in Europe".. You pretty much agreed with this opinion and now you're ridiculing it?!

I'm not ridiculing it I'm saying its not as well established as people think. Poor wording perhaps but I meant he's not the Dan Carter of NH rugby. He's the best in the NH but not by putting every other OH to shame. His reputation has benefited hugely from lack of competition. And although the best current NH OH that title might be be an accurate reflection of his ability as an OH in the way saying Dan Carter is the best OH in the SH is.

Sexton will be starting at 10.

http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/lions-tour/british-and-irish-lions-tour/start-at-fly-half

Gordon Gecko

Deleted User wrote: »

Sexton will be starting at 10.

http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/lions-tour/british-and-irish-lions-tour/start-at-fly-half

Looks like it's not just Leinster fans who fancy Madigan as a bolter...

Buer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Course he is.

So if Hogg goes out and lights up the world in Australia and Halfpenny is completely mediocre it means nothing?

Nobody is nailed on at this point. The Shane Williams example of 2009 is full proof that the test team will be selected on the basis of how people get on out there. Nobody ever would have thought Monye would start ahead of the world player of the year going out there but he did and deservedly.

FellasFellas

Buer wrote: »

So if Hogg goes out and lights up the world in Australia and Halfpenny is completely mediocre it means nothing?

Nobody is nailed on at this point. The Shane Williams example of 2009 is full proof that the test team will be selected on the basis of how people get on out there. Nobody ever would have thought Monye would start ahead of the world player of the year going out there but he did and deservedly.

Then showed his mediocrity in the first test.

Chabals Beard

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Havent seen it myself. Gilroy should have went to NZ ahead of him and since they have both played well for club, played well for Ireland with Gilroy playing out the 6 nations pretty well which imo put him ahead of Zebo.

I think Zebo is miles ahead of Gilroy in terms of being a complete player .. Gilroy is suspect under the high ball while Zebo is as safe as a house, Zebo is a fantastic kicker, Gilroy is poor .. The fact Zebo was not 100% fit last Sunday and still had a impact on the game despite Munster playing ten man rugby shows his class .. Zebo to travel

trouttrout

I don't think Gilroy has the same impackt on games that Zebo does tbh. Zebo has a much better chance of touring based on what he's shown for Munster and to a lesser extent Ireland all season

Chabals Beard

Just read there Zebo has 8 trys out of 12 Hcup games , some strike record

bilston

Chabals Beard wrote: »

I think Zebo is miles ahead of Gilroy in terms of being a complete player .. Gilroy is suspect under the high ball while Zebo is as safe as a house, Zebo is a fantastic kicker, Gilroy is poor .. The fact Zebo was not 100% fit last Sunday and still had a impact on the game despite Munster playing ten man rugby shows his class .. Zebo to travel

Zebo probably is marginally ahead of Gilroy, but why do people always turn it into a competition between the two. They are two exciting young Irish wingers. Lets rejoice at that.

And since you pointed it out I'd say Gilroy is perfectly fine under the high ball

Hottowel

I don't think anyone is a nailed on starter. Lions tests don't work like that.

At the moment leigh halfpenny is in prime position for full back as was lee byrne when they went to south Africa. Kearney hit the best form of his life and was starting the first test. At the moment all you can do is select a squad. Sexton is possibly the no 1 out half but that could change out there.

So all this talk of so and so been nailed on test starter is nonsense. Mike philips is ahead in scrum halfs but I don't/hope he doesn't start. Ball coming out is too damm slow.

jimjamcos

bilston wrote: »

Gilroy is perfectly fine under the high ball

Yea but he's not as cool as Zebo is he!

I'm obviously joking but the fact that Zebo comes across as such a cool-operator and a real likable fella probably draws people to arguing his case that small bit more than Gilroy's. I know nobody will admit it, but I'd bet that it does.

Podge_irl

Hottowel wrote: »

I don't think anyone is a nailed on starter. Lions tests don't work like that.

At the moment leigh halfpenny is in prime position for full back as was lee byrne when they went to south Africa. Kearney hit the best form of his life and was starting the first test. At the moment all you can do is select a squad. Sexton is possibly the no 1 out half but that could change out there.

So all this talk of so and so been nailed on test starter is nonsense. Mike philips is ahead in scrum halfs but I don't/hope he doesn't start. Ball coming out is too damm slow.

Lee Byrne started the first test but got injured.

Fireball07

I really hope Zebo goes, I think he's definitely good enough...the improvement in his game in the last 12 months has been simply phenomenal, because early last year he was exciting, but now he seems a fully-rounded player with the capability to perform in big games.


I like Gilroy too, and Gilroy does have probably an extra ability to beat players which can be very useful. And he's probably a better defender, although that is one of the areas Zebo has improved in. I think Zebo is better in other parts of the game.

I just think Zebo has been in slightly better form this season though, and is more likely to travel. Once Gilroy seals his place in the Ulster and Ireland backline permanently, he will be a special player though.

Podge_irl

I don't think either will travel ultimately, though I don't think it would be undeserved of either. Which is impressive on Zebo's behalf considering I don't think he should have been next or near the Irish tour to NZ last summer. He really has come on a huge amount.

awec

Chabals Beard wrote: »

I think Zebo is miles ahead of Gilroy in terms of being a complete player .. Gilroy is suspect under the high ball while Zebo is as safe as a house, Zebo is a fantastic kicker, Gilroy is poor .. The fact Zebo was not 100% fit last Sunday and still had a impact on the game despite Munster playing ten man rugby shows his class .. Zebo to travel

I disagree entirely, there is little to separate the two. Either could travel (though I suspect neither will).

Zebo is getting a lot of hype off the back of his little flick against Wales. Zebo has improved immensely from last season, but miles ahead I think not.

Chabals Beard

awec wrote: »

I disagree entirely, there is little to separate the two. Either could travel (though I suspect neither will).

Zebo is getting a lot of hype off the back of his little flick against Wales. Zebo has improved immensely from last season, but miles ahead I think not.

I disagree with you disagreeing !! Ok maybe miles ahead is too much but he is still closer to the finished article, Gilroy not being solid catching and kicking is huge abd could be found out big time down under, and the fact Gilroy struggles to start for Ulster with Bowe fit says something. Take away Zebos first 6N game and still has had a excellent year, better than Gilroys.

Chabals Beard

bilston wrote: »

Zebo probably is marginally ahead of Gilroy, but why do people always turn it into a competition between the two. They are two exciting young Irish wingers. Lets rejoice at that.

And since you pointed it out I'd say Gilroy is perfectly fine under the high ball

The reason Gilroy and Zebo is made into a competition is because it is. They are both competing for Lions spots

irishbucsfan

Is Gilroy not very good under the high ball?

I thought he was much better than Zebo tbh. It's his decision making at times that I don't like. But he is certainly much tougher to bring down than Zebo.

Buer

FellasFellas wrote: »

Then showed his mediocrity in the first test.

Which doesn't matter a jot to the point I was making.

pickarooney

Chabals Beard wrote: »

Just read there Zebo has 8 trys out of 12 Hcup games , some strike record

Three of them against an atrocious Racing side but I suppose you still have to score them.


For a bit of a laugh, who would people bring if French and Italian players were allowed?

I'd definitely bring Fofana and Parra and almost certainly bring both Parisse and Picamoles, probably Castrogiovanni and/or Mas, Clerc and Zanni, maybe mcClean, Debaty, Dusautoir and Maestri.

I think Masi would get a shot at 13.

pickarooney

Yeah, I still think of him as a 15 despite him moving up to centre for his club.