British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Dr.Evil

pickarooney wrote: »

Three of them against an atrocious Racing side but I suppose you still have to score them.


For a bit of a laugh, who would people bring if French and Italian players were allowed?

I'd definitely bring Fofana and Parra and almost certainly bring both Parisse and Picamoles, probably Castrogiovanni and/or Mas, Clerc and Zanni, maybe mcClean, Debaty, Dusautoir and Maestri.

I actually saw some article (can't remember where) where it suggested making one position open to a French/Italian player each time round. Is a fun idea, I'd love to see Picamoles or Parisse brought at number 8, they'd be so welcome too.

buck65

That Italian kicker ... what's his name?

biscuits22

buck65 wrote: »

That Italian kicker ... what's his name?

Orquera?

irishbucsfan

The French and Italians might dominate the team!

I think a French/Italian XV could beat the Lions.

biscuits22

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The French and Italians might dominate the team!

I think a French/Italian XV could beat the Lions.

Could make a good warm up game French/Italian xv vs the lions

brinty

pickarooney wrote: »

Three of them against an atrocious Racing side but I suppose you still have to score them.


For a bit of a laugh, who would people bring if French and Italian players were allowed?

I'd definitely bring Fofana and Parra and almost certainly bring both Parisse and Picamoles, probably Castrogiovanni and/or Mas, Clerc and Zanni, maybe mcClean, Debaty, Dusautoir and Maestri.

And 3 against Northhampton away, in a pool decider..

Zeboooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny

Quade to be left out of the 30 man Oz squad named

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/wallabies/quade-cooper-in-danger-of-missing-british-irish-lions-series-after-being-left-out-of-wallabeis-camp/story-e6frf55l-1226617671186#.UWVsxpOmgwo

Pudsy33

Ah ****e, I'm a Cooper fan

ssaye

So no cooper, no pocock, who else?

Grimebox

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny wrote: »

Quade to be left out of the 30 man Oz squad named

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/wallabies/quade-cooper-in-danger-of-missing-british-irish-lions-series-after-being-left-out-of-wallabeis-camp/story-e6frf55l-1226617671186#.UWVsxpOmgwo

It's difficult to decipher that at times with all the aussie slang

"Uncapped Brumbies playmaker Christian Lealiifano is seen as the next cab off the rank"

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny

Grimebox wrote: »

It's difficult to decipher that at times with all the aussie slang

"Uncapped Brumbies playmaker Christian Lealiifano is seen as the next cab off the rank"

Lealiifano would be considered the next in line, should they over look JOC as a 10 and Beale currently suspended. Strange considering he's at 12 for all Brumbies games except for last week where he did play 10 but back at 12 now

FellasFellas

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny wrote: »

Lealiifano would be considered the next in line, should they over look JOC as a 10 and Beale currently suspended. Strange considering he's at 12 for all Brumbies games except for last week where he did play 10 but back at 12 now

I think Lealilifano is a class act.

.ak

Strange tho. I'll be disappointed if we don't see Cooper play against the Lions, could hit some real form and make a cracker of a series.

jimjamcos

.ak wrote: »

Strange tho. I'll be disappointed if we don't see Cooper play against the Lions, could hit some real form and make a cracker of a series.

Kurtley Beale will be a bigger loss.

the baby bull elephant

Chabals Beard wrote: »

I think Zebo is miles ahead of Gilroy in terms of being a complete player .. Gilroy is suspect under the high ball while Zebo is as safe as a house, Zebo is a fantastic kicker, Gilroy is poor .. The fact Zebo was not 100% fit last Sunday and still had a impact on the game despite Munster playing ten man rugby shows his class .. Zebo to travel

Whereas Zebo's defense is a lot worse than Gilroy and cannot beat a man to anywhere near the same level.

Thekidneybean

Zebo is better going forward. But Gilroy would've been a great Centre imo,good enough attacker and brilliant defender.
And lads, auld Paul o connell to make the plane ;-)

Chabals Beard

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

Whereas Zebo's defense is a lot worse than Gilroy and cannot beat a man to anywhere near the same level.

Can't believe we are still arguing this.. Give em a example of Zebo's bad defending? At the end of the day, Zebo is a regular starter for Munster, Gilroy will struggle to get a place with Bowe back with Ulster. Zebo has a better chance of travelling with the Lions

CatFromHue

It doesn't matter much, or that much, for Gilroy that Bowe is back. The Lions squad will be announced pretty soon, I've heard it'll be after the HEC SF whereas before it was before them, Ulster will only have two games before it is and neither will be top class i.e. they play the Dragons and Connacht.

trouttrout

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

Whereas Zebo's defense is a lot worse than Gilroy and cannot beat a man to anywhere near the same level.

That's a complete exaggeration. Gilroy is harder to take down but Zebo is lethal with ball in hand too, in terms of attack I'd have them fairly level with Zebo just edging it

Both have improved in defense but Gilroy now seems like a very good defender

I think Zebo reads the game a lot better and his kicking and fielding game is better

the baby bull elephant

Chabals Beard wrote: »

Can't believe we are still arguing this.. Give em a example of Zebo's bad defending? At the end of the day, Zebo is a regular starter for Munster, Gilroy will struggle to get a place with Bowe back with Ulster. Zebo has a better chance of travelling with the Lions

Zebo wouldn't be started by Anscombe either. Zebo is rarely somewhere to make a tackle but actually here's an example while also showing how great Gilroy is. :P

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JYZJuHJcfdQ&quot; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://youtu.be/JYZJuHJcfdQ

trouttrout

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

Zebo wouldn't be started by Anscombe either. Zebo is rarely somewhere to make a tackle but actually here's an example while also showing how great Gilroy is. :P

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JYZJuHJcfdQ&quot; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://youtu.be/JYZJuHJcfdQ

What exactly does that mean? Zebo has been fine in defense this year

danthefan

I would imagine Zebo is more likely to travel than Gilroy.

Last season Zebo's positioning in particular was absolutely awful at times but he's improved a lot, to the extent where I don't think he has any glaring weaknesses in his game at all.

Gilroy would imo be more likely to beat a man one-on-one because he has an amazing step that he can execute at full speed. He's less likely to impose himself on a game though I reckon, he really shines when his halfbacks bring him into the game.

Both should be ahead of Earls now for example.

the baby bull elephant

trouttrout wrote: »

That's a complete exaggeration. Gilroy is harder to take down but Zebo is lethal with ball in hand too, in terms of attack I'd have them fairly level with Zebo just edging it

Both have improved in defense but Gilroy now seems like a very good defender

I think Zebo reads the game a lot better and his kicking and fielding game is better

Yeah I'll admit I'm exaggerating to make a point. On his defense.

No I don't think Zebo is better with ball in hand. Without space he is useless. Yep great finisher but he cannot really beat a man with either footwork or strength. He also almost never passes the ball when he thinks there is the slightest hint of a gap or a try for him when others are better positioned he will go himself. This is very frustrating for me. Gilroy on the other hand gets a decent amount of assists. I remember being gobsmacked when Zebo passed to Gilroy for one of his tries against Fiji.

Mahatma Geansai

danthefan wrote: »

I would imagine Zebo is more likely to travel than Gilroy.

Last season Zebo's positioning in particular was absolutely awful at times but he's improved a lot, to the extent where I don't think he has any glaring weaknesses in his game at all.

Gilroy would imo be more likely to beat a man one-on-one because he has an amazing step that he can execute at full speed. He's less likely to impose himself on a game though I reckon, he really shines when his halfbacks bring him into the game.

Both should be ahead of Earls now for example.

Earls comes in for a very rough time, but he is still the best linebreaker in the country. Many people appear to have a confirmation bias surrounding him and only notice his mistakes. He was more dangerous than Gilroy in the 6N, whose biggest contributions were some great shooting tackles.

Artful_Badger

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Earls comes in for a very rough time, but he is still the best linebreaker in the country. Many people appear to have a confirmation bias surrounding him and only notice his mistakes. He was more dangerous than Gilroy in the 6N, whose biggest contributions were some great shooting tackles.

I like Earls but he's another player who tends to live off potential and what he might do rather than what he's actually showed he can do on a consistant basis. Trimble outclassed him for a year but couldnt get ahead of him. He was ill suited to replace BOD at 13 yet he had first dibs on the position anyway. He has had a free ride for a long time in international rugby and I dont think it did him any favours in how he is viewed.

I'd give him some leeway as he is still quite young (Same age as Fitz isnt he?) But if you get the opportunities and fail to live up to expectation then you will drop in peoples eyes and could end up losing out to the next guy in line if there is a coach capable of making the decisions based on form and ability rather than ifs buts and maybes. And Gilroy and Zebo are making strides while Earls has been stagnant for quite some time. Only a matter of time before he's pushed out entirely.

danthefan

Artful_Badger wrote: »

I like Earls but he's another player who tends to live off potential and what he might do rather than what he's actually showed he can do on a consistant basis. Trimble outclassed him for a year but couldnt get ahead of him. He was ill suited to replace BOD at 13 yet he had first dibs on the position anyway. He has had a free ride for a long time in international rugby and I dont think it did him any favours in how he is viewed.

I'd give him some leeway as he is still quite young (Same age as Fitz isnt he?) But if you get the opportunities and fail to live up to expectation then you will drop in peoples eyes and could end up losing out to the next guy in line if there is a coach capable of making the decisions based on form and ability rather than ifs buts and maybes and Gilroy and Zebo are making strides while Earls has been stagnant for quite some time. Only a matter of time before he's pushed out entirely.

He's pretty experienced at this stage, 39 caps, as with Fitz I don't think age can be any excuse at this point. The point about him being stagnant is spot on, it's a while since his game has really improved. I don't get how he still struggles with passing, surely this is something coaches should identify and work on?

CGD

Artful_Badger wrote: »

I like Earls but he's another player who tends to live off potential and what he might do rather than what he's actually showed he can do on a consistant basis. Trimble outclassed him for a year but couldnt get ahead of him. He was ill suited to replace BOD at 13 yet he had first dibs on the position anyway. He has had a free ride for a long time in international rugby and I dont think it did him any favours in how he is viewed.

I'd give him some leeway as he is still quite young (Same age as Fitz isnt he?) But if you get the opportunities and fail to live up to expectation then you will drop in peoples eyes and could end up losing out to the next guy in line if there is a coach capable of making the decisions based on form and ability rather than ifs buts and maybes. And Gilroy and Zebo are making strides while Earls has been stagnant for quite some time. Only a matter of time before he's pushed out entirely.

Fairly accurate portrail of Earls! He has had more opportunities than most and will be interesting to see what the new coach will do with him if anything

jm08

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

Yeah I'll admit I'm exaggerating to make a point. On his defense.

No I don't think Zebo is better with ball in hand. Without space he is useless. Yep great finisher but he cannot really beat a man with either footwork or strength. He also almost never passes the ball when he thinks there is the slightest hint of a gap or a try for him when others are better positioned he will go himself. This is very frustrating for me. Gilroy on the other hand gets a decent amount of assists. I remember being gobsmacked when Zebo passed to Gilroy for one of his tries against Fiji.

Not sure how you came to the conclusion that Zebo's defence isn't as good as Gilroys!

Just checked their recent defence record (for games they both played in). Tackles made/missed.
v Wales: zebo 4/2. Gilroy 5/3.
v Argentina: Zebo 2/0. Gilroy 2/3.

Internationally to date (which is a bit surprising!). Looks like Gilroy's defence isn't as good as Zebos.
Zebo 6/2.
Gilroy 7/6.

I also checked out their HCup stats this year:
Zebo 13/3.
Gilroy 7/2.


One attribute of Zebo's which hasn't been mentioned and which is superb and that his ability to claim restarts. Two tries came from restarts that he reclaimed against Northampton (when he got his hatrick).

You should watch this try!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlabQyZgkHE

Why would you not want him to pass the ball. The guy is the fastest player in Ireland and he doesn't get turned over so yes, he is right to go for it.

jm08

Artful_Badger wrote: »

I like Earls but he's another player who tends to live off potential and what he might do rather than what he's actually showed he can do on a consistant basis. Trimble outclassed him for a year but couldnt get ahead of him. He was ill suited to replace BOD at 13 yet he had first dibs on the position anyway. He has had a free ride for a long time in international rugby and I dont think it did him any favours in how he is viewed.

I'd give him some leeway as he is still quite young (Same age as Fitz isnt he?) But if you get the opportunities and fail to live up to expectation then you will drop in peoples eyes and could end up losing out to the next guy in line if there is a coach capable of making the decisions based on form and ability rather than ifs buts and maybes. And Gilroy and Zebo are making strides while Earls has been stagnant for quite some time. Only a matter of time before he's pushed out entirely.

On the otherhand, it could be said that the 'free ride' is hard earned because he is moved around the backs so much and rarely gets to play the same position two in a row. He had a very good 6Ns last season when he got to play 13 for 4 games in a row, then he was shifted to fullback for the Ba-Baas, then 12 for first All Blacks test and then 11 for 3rd Test and then shifted back to 13 when he came back to Munster.

Some free ride!

Podge_irl

There is an awful, awful lot more to good defence then a simple tackles made/missed stat could ever hope to represent.