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British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

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    #3212
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    who_me wrote: »
    You'd wonder how the Lions selectors will rate HEC (maybe Amlin) form vs 6N. You'd think the Welsh & Scottish players would be at a disadvantage because of - typically - being out of the running in the Euro competitions since January.

    (Then again, the coming Euro semis could destroy the reputations of a number of English/Irish players too!)

    Welsh players are in the driving seat. The amlin is mickey mouse, no one cares about it. H Cup is probably good for just a few, POC/Wilkinson etc.


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    #3213
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    who_me wrote: »
    You'd wonder how the Lions selectors will rate HEC (maybe Amlin) form vs 6N. You'd think the Welsh & Scottish players would be at a disadvantage because of - typically - being out of the running in the Euro competitions since January.

    (Then again, the coming Euro semis could destroy the reputations of a number of English/Irish players too!)

    The domestic games are bound to count for something. Obviously the bulk of the squad will be picked on 6Ns form but for established players coming back from injury (ie O'Connell, Bowe, Zebo, Lydiate) it's a chance to show some form.

    I suppose it may also be a chance for players overlooked by their national squads to get noticed as well and that would be the hope that guys like Madigan, Wade and Trimble etc can cling to, but you'd have to think it's unlikely they'll get selected at this stage.


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    #3214
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Welsh players are in the driving seat. The amlin is mickey mouse, no one cares about it. H Cup is probably good for just a few, POC/Wilkinson etc.

    I should know better than to bother replying to you but would you care to explain why Warren Gatland, Lions head coach, was at the Wasps v Leinster game in that case?


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    #3215
    shuffol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭shuffol


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Welsh players are in the driving seat. The amlin is mickey mouse, no one cares about it. H Cup is probably good for just a few, POC/Wilkinson etc.

    All depends on the quality of the opposition and their motivation, some very average teams can get through to HEC knockouts.


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    #3216
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    danthefan wrote: »
    I should know better than to bother replying to you but would you care to explain why Warren Gatland, Lions head coach, was at the Wasps v Leinster game in that case?

    Well if you should, then don't.

    Simples.


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    #3217
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Welsh players are in the driving seat. The amlin is mickey mouse, no one cares about it. H Cup is probably good for just a few, POC/Wilkinson etc.

    Warren Gatland was at the Wasps v Leinster game so it certainly didn't do anyone any harm, but yeah, you'd have to really stand out in an Amlin (or Rabo) game to make an impression. The flip-side is that having a nightmare in the HC could write off your chances...

    All the while, the Welsh lads are at home with their feet up and ordering their Aussie dollars.


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    #3218
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    shuffol wrote: »
    All depends on the quality of the opposition and their motivation, some very average teams can get through to HEC knockouts.

    I agree, he'll base it on the 6N, that's why I think Wales will have the most players, and rightly so imo.


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    #3219
    Teferi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    shuffol wrote: »
    All depends on the quality of the opposition and their motivation, some very average teams can get through to HEC knockouts.

    Sorry shuffol, Leinster are in the Amlin therefore it is mickey mouse. Catch up will you.


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    #3220
    ssaye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭ssaye


    I have RW on ignore, can we please stop quoting him.
    Sweeping statements like some of his posts are pointless.

    Thanks


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    #3221
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    totallegend wrote: »
    Warren Gatland was at the Wasps v Leinster game so it certainly didn't do anyone any harm, but yeah, you'd have to really stand out in an Amlin (or Rabo) game to make an impression. The flip-side is that having a nightmare in the HC could write off your chances...

    All the while, the Welsh lads are at home with their feet up and ordering their Aussie dollars.

    That's exactly it, I read at the weekend he has already chosen the bulk of the squad. If you take Quins, losing so badly to Munster has damaged a few of them, none more so than the captain.


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    #3222
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Well if you should, then don't.

    Simples.

    Careful...


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    #3223
    Mahatma Geansai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭Mahatma Geansai


    Teferi wrote: »
    Sorry shuffol, Leinster are in the Amlin therefore it is mickey mouse. Catch up will you.

    The Amlin is a nothing competition for a side that was going for three HEC wins on the bounce. It would be nice to win and doing well in it will bring some more cash to the province though.

    Leinster appear to see it below themselves too considering they chose not to sully their jerseys win an Amlin badge on the sleeves; giving up a sum of money in the process afaik.


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    #3224
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Mahatma Geansai wrote: »
    The Amlin is a nothing competition for a side that was going for three HEC wins on the bounce. It would be nice to win and doing well in it will bring some more cash to the province though.

    Leinster appear to see it below themselves too considering they chose not to sully their jerseys win an Amlin badge on the sleeves; giving up a sum of money in the process afaik.

    That's how I'd see it too, I don't think for instance Toulouse were too upset about losing the last day. But it can be a nice springboard for the likes of Perpignan to get back into the top tier.


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    #3225
    who_me
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Welsh players are in the driving seat. The amlin is mickey mouse, no one cares about it. H Cup is probably good for just a few, POC/Wilkinson etc.

    At this stage, maybe. But will Quins/Tigers/Ulster players suffer slightly because of not making the semis? Given the strength of the 2 French teams remaining, it's hard to know whether it's better for Lions hopefuls to be sitting at home watching the semis, or out there playing!

    I think the Amlin is useful for assessing players coming back from injury, looking at how combinations work, keeping an eye out for bolters (where else are the Lions team going to be these days?)

    You'd wonder too about the style of play. Gatland was watching Munster in two slow, attritional games against Quins & Leinster; would he come away thinking "this tells me nothing about how these guys will play in a high-tempo game against Australia"? In that sense, the Amlin is a lot more like the Lions tests - in style/tempo, but definitely not in pressure.


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    #3226
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    Mahatma Geansai wrote: »
    The Amlin is a nothing competition for a side that was going for three HEC wins on the bounce. It would be nice to win and doing well in it will bring some more cash to the province though.

    Leinster appear to see it below themselves too considering they chose not to sully their jerseys win an Amlin badge on the sleeves; giving up a sum of money in the process afaik.

    What a laughable suggestion, Wasps had the Aviva Prem logo on their jerseys instead of the Amlin logo too.. I think I've seen enough here


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    #3227
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    who_me wrote: »
    At this stage, maybe. But will Quins/Tigers/Ulster players suffer slightly because of not making the semis? Given the strength of the 2 French teams remaining, it's hard to know whether it's better for Lions hopefuls to be sitting at home watching the semis, or out there playing!

    I think the Amlin is useful for assessing players coming back from injury, looking at how combinations work, keeping an eye out for bolters (where else are the Lions team going to be these days?)

    You'd wonder too about the style of play. Gatland was watching Munster in two slow, attritional games against Quins & Leinster; would he come away thinking "this tells me nothing about how these guys will play in a high-tempo game against Australia"? In that sense, the Amlin is a lot more like the Lions tests - in style/tempo, but definitely not in pressure.

    Gatland is 1 of the best out there. He went to watch Munster to watch POC and only a few others. The Tigers losing wouldn't have harmed any of their players, because it was a tough match and they did well, same would apply to Ulster. Sarries were always favourites to win it.
    Quins though is different, some of their players underperformed v badly in the key game v Wales, and v Munster when they were expected to win.


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    #3228
    Teferi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    Mahatma Geansai wrote: »
    The Amlin is a nothing competition for a side that was going for three HEC wins on the bounce. It would be nice to win and doing well in it will bring some more cash to the province though.

    Just because the competition is lower tier does not mean it is mickey mouse.
    Mahatma Geansai wrote: »
    Leinster appear to see it below themselves too considering they chose not to sully their jerseys win an Amlin badge on the sleeves; giving up a sum of money in the process afaik.

    That's a bunch of hyperbole anyway.

    Munster had the HC logo on the jerseys last year when they played in the Amlin - do you think they didn't want to win it? It has nothing to do with respect for the league, I'd imagine it has to do with logistics/printing etc.


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    #3229
    Coburger
    Registered Users Posts: 324 ✭✭Coburger


    Anyone know what English, Welsh, and Scottish forums are saying on the Lions team, I wonder how many Irish players they put into it.


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    #3230
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Mahatma Geansai wrote: »
    The Amlin is a nothing competition for a side that was going for three HEC wins on the bounce. It would be nice to win and doing well in it will bring some more cash to the province though.

    Leinster appear to see it below themselves too considering they chose not to sully their jerseys win an Amlin badge on the sleeves; giving up a sum of money in the process afaik.

    No team who qualifies for the Amlin through the H-Cup wear the Amlin badge on their jerseys.


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    #3231
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Rightwing wrote: »
    That's how I'd see it too, I don't think for instance Toulouse were too upset about losing the last day. But it can be a nice springboard for the likes of Perpignan to get back into the top tier.

    That's fine, that's how you see it. It's obviously not how Gatland sees it, considering the amount of international players that play in it. No offence but I'll take Gatland's interest in it over yours as a sign that the Amlin is a competition - whilst it still has Leinster in it - as a very important competition for Lions places.


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    #3232
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    .ak wrote: »
    That's fine, that's how you see it. It's obviously not how Gatland sees it, considering the amount of international players that play in it. No offence but I'll take Gatland's interest in it over yours as a sign that the Amlin is a competition - whilst it still has Leinster in it - as a very important competition for Lions places.

    Gatland will go to a friendly match to see players if needs be. But anyone who hasn't put their hands up by now, the Amlin won't save them, and neither will the H cup. Just my opinion.


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    #3233
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Gatland will go to a friendly match to see players if needs be. But anyone who hasn't put their hands up by now, the Amlin won't save them, and neither will the H cup. Just my opinion.

    Then why is he bothering going to the games? Bizarre comment tbh.


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    #3234
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    .ak wrote: »
    Then why is he bothering going to the games? Bizarre comment tbh.

    If he wasn't going to matches, he'd have accusations levelled at him, like Trap had, not bothering to go to matches. Now Trap is going to mickey mouse matches in England, just to satisfy the media.


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    #3235
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    I sometimes think people use online forums as an exercise in practicing their debating rhetoric


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    #3236
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Rightwing wrote: »
    If he wasn't going to matches, he'd have accusations levelled at him, like Trap had, not bothering to go to matches. Now Trap is going to mickey mouse matches in England, just to satisfy the media.

    What? This is once off tour. Gatland won't give a stuff if the media thinks he should attend an Amlin cup game.

    The fact of the matter is the majority of the Irish team play for Leinster, and Ireland make up one fourth of the home nations. He doesn't care what people's opinions are on the league, he's going to see them play because he wants to before making up his mind. Which brings me to this:
    Rightwing wrote: »
    Gatland will go to a friendly match to see players if needs be. But anyone who hasn't put their hands up by now, the Amlin won't save them, and neither will the H cup. Just my opinion.

    Gatland has already said he's putting off the squad announcement until the semis for the very reason so he can see players play, especially those who missed out due to injury. So whilst you're entitled to your opinion, according to Gatland, it's wrong.


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    #3237
    Swan Curry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭Swan Curry


    Grimebox wrote: »
    I sometimes think people use online forums as an exercise in practicing their debating rhetoric

    argumentum ad yore ma


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    #3238
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    ESPN B&I Team of the Week.

    http://www.espnscrum.com/lions-tour-2013/rugby/story/180532.html


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    #3239
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    .ak wrote: »
    What? This is once off tour. Gatland won't give a stuff if the media thinks he should attend an Amlin cup game.

    The fact of the matter is the majority of the Irish team play for Leinster, and Ireland make up one fourth of the home nations. He doesn't care what people's opinions are on the league, he's going to see them play because he wants to before making up his mind. Which brings me to this:



    Gatland has already said he's putting off the squad announcement until the semis for the very reason so he can see players play, especially those who missed out due to injury. So whilst you're entitled to your opinion, according to Gatland, it's wrong.

    Gatland cares, just like anyone would. His reputation is at stake here.
    If the Lions lose, no one will be able to say he didn't do the preparation. Did he need to spend a week with Wales training? I doubt it very much. But he has put the time in. The ultimate professional.


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    #3240
    William Puny Image
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ William Puny Image


    The ultimate professional does not waste time sucking up to the media.

    Your logic is absolutely baffling.

    On another note. Robshaw keeps getting mentioned in English Lions articles. Where, how and what?


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    #3241
    P.Walnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 4,768 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Gatland cares, just like anyone would. His reputation is at stake here.
    If the Lions lose, no one will be able to say he didn't do the preparation. Did he need to spend a week with Wales training? I doubt it very much. But he has put the time in. The ultimate professional.

    Do you honestly believe that if the tour is a losing one, the media will hang Gatland based on not appearing at an Amlin QF?

    I understand you have to keep the act going, but your posts are beginning (generous) to get quite embarrassing.


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