British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

duckysauce

astonaidan wrote: »

Am I the only one who wouldnt be in the least bit surprised to see Visser tour

Aussies would destroy him , he is like Forest Gump with the ball , anything else-- thinking, defending and its curtains for the chap.

Swiwi

duckysauce wrote: »

Aussies would destroy him , he is like Forest Gump with the ball , anything else-- thinking, defending and its curtains for the chap.

Totally agree. If it was me selecting I would plump for Bowe, Zebo (I've changed my opinion on his readiness), the 2 Welsh flyers, and Maitland. The FG (that's Forrest Gump, not Fine Gael...) analogy is a good one, he's fine with ball in hand and a straight sprint to the line, but he doesn't read the game that well, at least not when I've seen him play. If WG chooses Visser, I 'd definitely expect he'd be targeted.

Only 7 more sleeps until the Lions squad announcement!

Swiwi

Swiwi wrote: »

I have finally given in, and will add my Lions XV to the multitude on the forum...however, I will justify my choices...and look back in a few months and see how I did! Backs tonight!

15. Stuart Hogg
I'm a huge fan of Leigh Halfpenny, and he makes my team on the wing. However, his only "flaw", if you can call it that, is maybe a lack of a running game, and that's where Stuart Hogg has been most impressive this season, carrying on from the standards set by Rob Kearney last season. He also seems safe under the high ball, generally positionally sound, and has a reasonable boot. However, I won't be surprised to see Halfpenny at 15.

14. Alex Cuthbert
It's been a bit hard to judge the Welsh wings of late, given the Welsh team performances, but I find Cuthbert to run better lines than North. I don't rate Visser, who would be targeted by the Aussies positionally I feel, and the English wings have hardly set the world on fire. However, this is by no means certain for me, and both Tommy Bowe and Craig Gilroy are considerations. I reckon Gilroy could be a definite bolter for the squad. In my opinion, Zebo needs more time to refine his game. I haven't considered Maitland, I mean come on, the guy's more Kiwi than me!

13. Manu Tualagi => BOD
I thought about keeping BOD at 13, and once again I won't be surprised if WG chooses BOD or even Jonathan Davies at 13, but there's nothing like raw Polynesian power in the backline (especially running at Quade Cooper) to get over the advantage line. He's not the finished product, has no kicking game of note (so definitely wouldn't put at 12), but he's my preferred battering ram to the more limited Jamie Roberts.

12. BOD => Roberts
I guess a bit of a risk, but there are currently no standout 12s for the Lions (if only Fofana was available...). I'm not a fan of Roberts, Barritt is solid but hardly dynamic and a bit of a Tualagi clone, Twelvetrees has only been seen once, the Scottish midfield can't tackle, and Luke Marshall is just too new to the scene to risk in a first Lions test, where forward passes such as seen on Saturday could be very costly. BOD is one of the greatest players ever, still has a range of skills, and his loss of pace is less important at 12. Definitely open for debate, though.

11. Leigh Halfpenny
With Hogg taking the 15 spot, Leigh moves to wing. He would also be my goalkicker ahead of Sexton, he's metronomic. Modern wings generally need to be secure under the high ball, defensively sound, and have a cultured boot, and Leigh ticks all the boxes. Obviously also covers 15 in case of injury.

10. Jonny Sexton
I think JS is more WGs style of 10, he would definitely be preferred in NZ to Farrell. I wasn't impressed by the non-playing sides of Farrell's game in the weekend. Stroppy petulance could be costly for the Lions. With Halfpenny taking the kicks at goal, Johnny is free to concentrate on running the backline.

9. Ben Youngs
Rounding out the backs is the English scrumhalf. It's weird to see England sporting 2 dynamic running scrumhalves, but Youngs & Care look the business. Phillips is turgid these days (Wales' answer to Jimmy Cowan), don't get me started on the Scottish halfbacks, and I don't think Murray has met their standard, definitely not in the weekend where he was relatively poor.

Swiwi wrote: »

As requested, English Lurker.

1. Cian Healy
To my mind, Cian Healy is strangely under-rated outside of Ireland. He had a fantastic tour to NZ, and has pretty much continued that form. I think the other nations see him as a bit of a bonehead, and his recent mindless stamp & citing will only have reinforced that view. He scrums well, defends well, is mobile round the field, and is good value for a short-range try.

2. Tom Youngs
Heart says Rory Best, head says Tom Youngs. Had a great game v NZ in November, and has pretty much kicked on from there. Not flashy, but does the basics well. Best had a shocker at the lineouts in the weekend, to the point where a repeat performance could cost a Lions series. These are my first 2 picks though at hooker, so whoever starts, the other is on the bench.

3. Adam Jones
This could also go to Dan Cole TBH. However, Domingo definitely got the better of Cole in the weekend, and to everyone's surprise the Aussie pack held their own at scrumtime v England in the AIs, they might even have edged it, although Eng had a sub-par Marler at LH that day. All the test matches are on a Saturday, so that also brings Scotland's Murray into consideration, but I haven't seen enough of him. I have a feeling the warmup matches will be crucial in deciding the TH berth.

4. Richie Gray => AWJ
This is one of those "class is permanent, form is temporary selections". I dont think Gray has been at the top of his game this 6N, but I reckon with better company around him, and good coaching he could become a star of the tour. He's a player I would back myself to bring the best out of. With my inevitable NZ comparison (!), it's a bit like the multitude of Blues players who spent a season with the Crusaders and became ABs eg Ron Cribb.

5. Geoff Parling => POC
England have 2 very good locks, but I think Parling edges Launchbury at present. There are other good candidates, including Ireland's Donncha Ryan, but the English pack has been purring along nicely, and Parling is a big part of that.

6. Sean O'Brien => Warburton
I get to indulge my preference, and put SOB at 6. To be honest, no matter which combination of loose forwards I choose, someone on boards will disagree, as it's very competitive. SOB has to be in the loose forward mix, and may be preferred on the bench where he would certainly add impact (note to PSA). It really comes down to which style of 6 WG wants - he could go with the bullocking style of SOB/Ferris etc, or the more rangy lineout options like Tom Wood/Tom Croft or the hardworking Lydiate.

7. Chris Robshaw => Tipuric
There are no out and out 7s in the style of the Aussie 7s (Pocock, Gill, Hooper) so rather than trying to match Australia in this department, I would try and outmuscle them. Robshaw gives his all, is pretty immaculate in his play, and most importantly seems to lack the Farrell/Ashton petulance. And he's a lineout option.

8. Johnnie Beattie => Faletau
The best No 8s in Europe are not eligible for the Lions (Parisse, Picamoles), but Beattie is another player who I think would go well in a better team. Pretty sure Faletau will get this spot though, and I wouldn't have a problem with it either.

My captain is Robshaw, my vice-captain is BOD (either at 12 or 13).

I expect there would be a fair amount of disagreement with my forwards selection, in particular some of the Welsh loosies have a strong following on this forum (Tipuric, Lydiate etc).

Time to update the picks pre squad announcement...and the forwards are totally revamped. The front row stays the same (Jones definitely the best TH), but otherwise it's all change. Richie Grey's injury, ad the return from injury and to form of AWJ & POC see them combine as the new locking pair. I wouldn't have an issue with Parling getting a start though. The Welsh loosies were outstanding v England, and with Warburton seemingly to be named captain, SOB moves to the bench where he covers all 3 positions, and definitely offers impact. I'd have Tom Croft as my other loosie on the bench, covering lock & 6, or else Parling.

Backs pretty much unchanged, except BOD moves to 13 and Roberts comes in. I'd also consider moving Halfpenny back to 15, and putting Zebo on the wing, the Munsterman is quite growing on me, I must say.

Edit: I meant Tipuric, not Lydiate. That'll learn me for drinking beer at midday...am on holiday in fairness.

.ak

That's pretty much the team I'd select. I'd love Halfpenny to be moved to the wing so we could get some more exciting players onto the field like Hogg.

Still not entirely sure on an all Welsh backrow, especially with Warburton at 6. It worked against England but lightning doesn't strike twice. As much of a fan of Tipuric I am atleast with SOB you offer a significant carrier threat. Lydiate doesn't look likely to get back to the levels he was at in time. If Warburton is captain then I'd like to see SOB or Croft at 6, Warb at 7 and Faletau/Heaslip at 8.

Swiwi

.ak wrote: »

That's pretty much the team I'd select. I'd love Halfpenny to be moved to the wing so we could get some more exciting players onto the field like Hogg.

Still not entirely sure on an all Welsh backrow, especially with Warburton at 6. It worked against England but lightning doesn't strike twice. As much of a fan of Tipuric I am atleast with SOB you offer a significant carrier threat. Lydiate doesn't look likely to get back to the levels he was at in time. If Warburton is captain then I'd like to see SOB or Croft at 6, Warb at 7 and Faletau/Heaslip at 8.

I'd go with that too, except as Leinster fans know (with a nod to Danthefan) I'm not Heaslip's greatest admirer. I thought Warburton was a 7, but he played well v England at 6. The great thing about Croft is his lineout work, whereas SOB offers more go-forward. Having both in the 22/23 allows WG to change the team to suit how the game is going.

Hype710

Also, as much as I am a fan of Tipuric he's a cracking option of the bench when the game opens up. Two years in a row he's come on against us and had a huge impact.

Warburton was at 6 v England to accommodate Tipuric, who has been sensational at openside.

Lydiate hasn't had many miles this year, looks to be a fair bit bigger than he was last year, and not in the good way.

SOB is the ideal bench option as can play 6,7,8 comfortably and also vs tired legs could be a massive battering ram.

trouttrout

15 Halfpenny
14 Cuthbert
13 Tualagi
12 Roberts
11 Zebo
10 Sexton
9 Youngs
8 Falatau
7 Tipuric
6 SOB
5 POC (c)
4 AWJ
3 Jones
2 Youngs
1 Healy

Is what I'd go for atm

.ak

Croft seriously impressed me in the Toulon game. He was everywhere. His work rate is immense and in a way his carrying is up there with SOBs, as he can usually run around players rather than go through them.

Faletau is defo the front runner at 8, and rightly so, but having said that Heaslip's just after putting in a few immense shifts for Leinster since the 6N. Maybe it's the captain's thing, but he's certainly putting his hand up and aside from Faletau I can't think of any 8 that's playing as well. If he gets on the plane he'll have a huge chance to impress in the midweek games.

Swiwi

trouttrout wrote: »

15 Halfpenny
14 Cuthbert
13 Tualagi
12 Roberts
11 Zebo
10 Sexton
9 Youngs
8 Falatau
7 Tipuric
6 SOB
5 POC (c)
4 AWJ
3 Jones
2 Youngs
1 Healy

Is what I'd go for atm

No BOD?

trouttrout

Swiwi wrote: »

No BOD?

No, I had him in all my teams up until now but I've been watching Tigers these lasst few weeks and Leinster and atm I'd have Manu in there. Could easily change again after the weekend though!

Swiwi

trouttrout wrote: »

No, I had him in all my teams up until now but I've been watching Tigers these lasst few weeks and Leinster and atm I'd have Manu in there. Could easily change again after the weekend though!

I just think BOD has proven pedigree at Lions level. Form is temporary, class is permanent and all that. In any case, I doubt Cooper will feature at 10 for Aussie, making Tualagi a little less imperative.

sting60

BOD was poor in the 6 Nations overall and cannot be considered a starter.

Glass Prison 1214

15. Halfpenny
14. North
13. Tuilagi
12. D'Arcy....... yes thats right, Gordon D'Arcy, he has had a brilliant and underrated season imo.
11. Zebo
10. Sexton
9. Youngs
8. Faletau
7. O'Brien
6. Croft
5. AWJ
4. O'Connell
3. Jones
2. Youngs
1. Healy

16.Best 17.Grant 18.Cole 19.Parling 20.Tipuric 21.Murray 22.Madigan 23.Hogg

That's my matchday squad at the moment.

Grimebox

Madigan and Murray... interesting

Swiwi

sting60 wrote: »

BOD was poor in the 6 Nations overall and cannot be considered a starter.

Scottish midfield fairly ordinary, Tualagi up & down, Davies so-so, BOD went OK, aside from his mindless stamp v Italy.

jamiedav2011

Heaslip v. Hairydonkey will be a big battle this weekend, could be the making of his Lions tour.

Also, anyone read the piece in this ST last weekend about Heaslip?
Anyone who ever doubted his professionalism or commitment should read, very good insight.

Swiwi

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

15. Halfpenny
14. North
13. Tuilagi
12. D'Arcy....... yes thats right, Gordon D'Arcy, he has had a brilliant and underrated season imo.
11. Zebo
10. Sexton
9. Youngs
8. Faletau
7. O'Brien
6. Croft
5. AWJ
4. O'Connell
3. Jones
2. Youngs
1. Healy

16.Best 17.Grant 18.Cole 19.Parling 20.Tipuric 21.Murray 22.Madigan 23.Hogg

That's my matchday squad at the moment.

Yemen eh? Fairplay to you. But there is absolutely no way D'Arcy will make the Lions squad, he's at the tail-end of his career. He's been an honest toiler for Ireland, but I don't envisage him as a Lions 12.

jamiedav2011

Swiwi wrote: »

Yemen eh? Fairplay to you. But there is absolutely no way D'Arcy will make the Lions squad, he's at the tail-end of his career. He's been an honest toiler for Ireland, but I don't envisage him as a Lions 12.

Don't think so either, but he has been very good at times this season, and would be a great reserve. Can't see him getting ahead of Tuilagi, Barritt, Davies and Roberts though.

Glass Prison 1214

Grimebox wrote: »

Madigan and Murray... interesting

Yep, I don't like a lot of the halfback options that we have floating around(Phillips, Care, Farrell, Biggar etc), I actually think Murray is very good and I think he gets criticized based on last seasons performances. After every Ireland game this season I have found my self thinking he was one of our better players, playing beside an awful ROG for Munster this season actually may have helped him because he was forced to take on more responsibility.

And for Madigan I think he is so exciting when on the ball, could be great off the bench for the Lions and I am a bit of an anyone but Farrell guy, I just can't see what he offers whatsoever.

P.Walnuts

Don't really think Maitland should tour to be honest, on the basis of the 6N he did very little for me, even though Scotland gives their backs very little to work with most of the time Hogg still managed to stand out. Neither him or Visser are ahead of North/Cuthbert/Bowe/Ashton/Zebo imo and would be disappointed to see either of them tour.

As an aside, the idea of a kiwi playing one season of 6N rugby and immediatley getting on the Lions tour doesn't really appeal to me either, just doesn't seem right since the draw of the Lions is mainly the North v South angle.

andrewdcs

If its 20 forwards and 16 backs... or will it be less/more?

I get something along lines of:
12 welsh
6 Scottish
9 Irish
9 English

would be pretty balanced / reflect strengths in teams.


20 Forwards:
6 Welsh
4 Scottish
5 Irish
5 English

16 Backs:
6 Welsh
2 Scottish
4 Irish
4 English

Glass Prison 1214

Swiwi wrote: »

Yemen eh? Fairplay to you. But there is absolutely no way D'Arcy will make the Lions squad, he's at the tail-end of his career. He's been an honest toiler for Ireland, but I don't envisage him as a Lions 12.

I know its likely he won't be touring unfortunately, but if I was picking the squad he sure would.

yimrsg

What I think Gatland will pick:

Healy
Hibbard
Jones
AWJ
POC
SOB
Warburton
Faletau
Philips
Sexton
North
Roberts
Tuilagi
Cuthbert
Halfpenny

Best, Vunipola, Cole, Parling, Robshaw, Laidlaw, Farrell, Hogg

What I'd like:

Grant
Hibbard
Jones
AWJ
Hamilton
SOB
Tipuric
Heaslip
Youngs
Sexton
Zebo
Roberts
BOD
North
Halfpenny

Healy, Best, Cole, POC, Lydiate/Ferris, Care, Farrell, Wade.

Grant, Hibbard and Jones are there to offer a very strong front row who do the basics and Hamilton adds a great deal to the scrums and lineouts. AWJ is captain. Hopefully the tight 5 will put the Austrailan scrum under pressure and we can go from there. The first 50 minutes is based on trying to squeeze the life out of their pack and then up the tempo with impact from the bench.

SOB, Tipuric and Heaslip are selected due to their mobility and breakdown work and will need to be at their best as I could see 2 of Smith, Hooper and Gill making up the Australian backrow.

Youngs and Sexton pick themselves. Roberts and BOD to rekindle their partnership where they caused havoc and look for the wingers/backrow to trail them looking for offloads. For all their attacking strength in the backs, I think there could be frailties in the Australian centres. North & Zebo are too good to leave out, I've my doubts about Cuthbert defensively whilst Visser & Ashton aren't on brilliant form. Maitland unlucky to miss out. Halfpenny is the standout fullback.

Healy, Best and Cole are all very powerful in the breakdown, so could really change the course of the game, slowing down Australian ball and speeding up Lions possession. POC comes in to add experience and drive to close out the game. Ferris/Lydiate provides an additional ball carrier in the backrow is versatile enough. Heaslip over Faletau as we need a 3rd option in the lineouts plus I thing he's better in the breakdown. Care comes on against tired legs and can be a terror whilst Farrell covers 10/12. Zebo moves to fullback if Halfpenny's injured. Wade is probably a better winger than Hogg so just gets the nod and would be a nightmare to face with tired legs.

Tox56

Swiwi wrote: »

Yemen eh? Fairplay to you. But there is absolutely no way D'Arcy will make the Lions squad, he's at the tail-end of his career. He's been an honest toiler for Ireland, but I don't envisage him as a Lions 12.

D'Arcy won't and shouldn't tour, but as a general point I think he is very underrated, so much so that "honest toiler" doesn't do him justice. He more than played his part in the midfield partnership with BOD, but I think the fact he was alongside BOD means people don't realise just how good he was.

He was 6N player of the tournament and nominated for IRB player of the year 2004.. playing at 13 because O'Driscoll was injured.. in a BOD-less world he could have been a real star. Even at 12 I think he was one of the best around for most of his career

Swiwi

Tox56 wrote: »

D'Arcy won't and shouldn't tour, but as a general point I think he is very underrated, so much so that "honest toiler" doesn't do him justice. He more than played his part in the midfield partnership with BOD, but I think the fact he was alongside BOD means people don't realise just how good he was.

He was 6N player of the tournament and nominated for IRB player of the year 2004.. playing at 13 because O'Driscoll was injured.. in a BOD-less world he could have been a real star. Even at 12 I think he was one of the best around for most of his career

Nicely argued!

schools rugby

Howley and Roundtree in Dublin , Gatland and Farrell in Montpellier and all at Twickers on Sunday - Last chance saloon

ssaye

Des Berry friend of a friend story in tonights herald pg 80 has a Dublin driver picking up Gatland last week at the Airport and and bringing him to BOD's house and on returning Gatland to the airport the driver betting on BOD as captain right after.

Hilarious

bilston

ssaye wrote: »

Des Berry friend of a friend story in tonights herald pg 80 has a Dublin driver picking up Gatland last week at the Airport and and bringing him to BOD's house and on returning Gatland to the airport the driver betting on BOD as captain right after.

Hilarious

Or maybe Gatty felt that such was BODs standing in the game that at the very least he deserved to hear the bad news in person.

danthefan

Tox56 wrote: »

D'Arcy won't and shouldn't tour, but as a general point I think he is very underrated, so much so that "honest toiler" doesn't do him justice. He more than played his part in the midfield partnership with BOD, but I think the fact he was alongside BOD means people don't realise just how good he was.

He was 6N player of the tournament and nominated for IRB player of the year 2004.. playing at 13 because O'Driscoll was injured.. in a BOD-less world he could have been a real star. Even at 12 I think he was one of the best around for most of his career

It'll be a long long long time before we see a centre combo as good again in Ireland. I think he had a dip in form in 2012 for Ireland in particular but he's back playing well again and he's been an unbelievable servant to Ireland and Leinster

Having said that if he can managed to stop getting knocked out in every game I think it's time to give Marshall a run in the team.

Edit - just to make it relevant to the thread, I wouldn't bring him on the Lions tour.