British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

eltonio

matTNT wrote: »

I reckon Tuilagi might have done it, that's the only other one I could think of though. Your right in that sense, tbh I think O Driscoll's vision is great and his mind and ball skills are impeccable he has lost some of his pace though, funnily enough I think it is the former we will need with the other backs that are there.

I wouldn't be Tuilagi's greatest fan as an outside centre but it could well be worth trying him inside O'Driscoll for a game or 2, they could be amazing together.

matTNT

Buer wrote: »

It's just not in his nature. 3 starts and 1 sub appearance in the 6N and he passed the ball 6 times. BOD passed 9 times against Scotland alone. Tuilagi doesn't have a creative aspect to his repertoire.

Your not being fair to Tuilagi if you judge him on the England games think about the amount of times he touched the ball. How many of these were with passes that gave him time to move. He has Farrell and Barritt inside him. Farrell is not one dimensional and could play creatively but there game plan was not really about playing a 13/11/14/15 game it was about shipping it to Barritt or Farrell and hitting big runners for mediocre gains.
On the times Farrell did opt to move it Barritt's passing decidedly average.

Buer

You're right, it is possibly unfair. He's more likely to pass when lining out for the Tigers but, with that said, the pass that BOD threw for Zebo was an extremely precise. I don't think Tuilagi has that sort of distribution in his arsenal.

its_phil

Buer wrote: »

You're right, it is possibly unfair. He's more likely to pass when lining out for the Tigers but, with that said, the pass that BOD threw for Zebo was an extremely precise. I don't think Tuilagi has that sort of distribution in his arsenal.

There are very few players in world rugby who have that pass in their repertoire. I'd like to see a 12-13 combo of Tuilagi and BOD together in the warm up games for the sake of experiment

shuffol

Its probably worth noting that Tuilagi can do a lot of things BOD cant, he'd a poor moment in the Wales match though where he butchered a certain try by refusing to pass.

PhatPiggins

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Completely disagree. He's put in some incredible performances over the past 18 months. Today was just a different kind of performance.

I would be massively massively surprised if he doesn't travel. Not just because he's so good but also because outside of Faletau there isn't anyone else worth taking over him.

Open to interpretation there.

For Leinster:

Lowest number of turnovers of any Irish backrower who's played over 65% of games this season.

Fewest number of tackles of any tier 1/2/3 number 8 in the HC against all the other tier 1/2/3 teams this season.

Most ineffectual forward ball carrier in the pool 5 this season, based on metres per carry.

For Ireland:

Most ineffectual back row ball carrier in the 6N's, based on metres per carry.

Highest number of missed tackles of any number 8 who started more then 3 games for their country in the 6N's.

Heaslip is all over the pitch, he's very fit and is one of the first to every situation. My question is how much impact is he having against teams of note?

You make a good point about the lack of specialised options.

awec

I honestly think that Heaslip is both overhyped and understated at the same time on this forum.

The reality is that he's somewhere in between what the two groups think of him IMO.

Podge_irl

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Fewest number of tackles of any tier 1/2/3 number 8 in the HC against all the other tier 1/2/3 teams this season.

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/statistics/heineken_cup_top_tens.php

This has Heaslip making the 9th most tackles of anyone in the Heineken Cup with several of those ahead of him playing more games.

He also has the four most carries of anyone, though he is regularly used to clean up crap ball by Leinster.

Where did you get your stats? Genuinely curious as I have great difficulty in believing Heaslip had the fewest turnovers when that is one of the strong points of his game.

dtpc191991

matTNT wrote: »

Your not being fair to Tuilagi if you judge him on the England games think about the amount of times he touched the ball. How many of these were with passes that gave him time to move. He has Farrell and Barritt inside him. Farrell is not one dimensional and could play creatively but there game plan was not really about playing a 13/11/14/15 game it was about shipping it to Barritt or Farrell and hitting big runners for mediocre gains.
On the times Farrell did opt to move it Barritt's passing decidedly average.

I agree on Baritt I cant undestand why he is ahead of Twelvetrees he just offers much more creativity at 12 and could make much more use of Tuilagi outside him.

its_phil

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Open to interpretation there.

For Leinster:

Lowest number of turnovers of any Irish backrower who's played over 65% of games this season.

Fewest number of tackles of any tier 1/2/3 number 8 in the HC against all the other tier 1/2/3 teams this season.

Most ineffectual forward ball carrier in the pool 5 this season, based on metres per carry.

For Ireland:

Most ineffectual back row ball carrier in the 6N's, based on metres per carry.

Highest number of missed tackles of any number 8 who started more then 3 games for their country in the 6N's.

Heaslip is all over the pitch, he's very fit and is one of the first to every situation. My question is how much impact is he having against teams of note?

You make a good point about the lack of specialised options.

If the turnovers is from Scrum.com then that means how many times he gave possession to the opposition ie. knock ons, forward passes etc

Almaviva

awec wrote: »

I honestly think that Heaslip is both overhyped and understated at the same time on this forum.

The reality is that he's somewhere in between what the two groups think of him IMO.

A productive show pony then ?

bilston

dtpc191991 wrote: »

I agree on Baritt I cant undestand why he is ahead of Twelvetrees he just offers much more creativity at 12 and could make much more use of Tuilagi outside him.

Well if you subscribe to the theory that defence wins matches then Baritt over 36 is understandable. Also if you have Tuilagi bashing his way over the gainline (which he does pretty well) then provided you secure quick ball you don't necessarily need a creative 12.

CIARAN_BOYLE

dtpc191991 wrote: »

I agree on Baritt I cant undestand why he is ahead of Twelvetrees he just offers much more creativity at 12 and could make much more use of Tuilagi outside him.

Goode steps into the line and plays for England like a third centre and does the creative stuff, it allows England to select a pair of bashers in the centre and keep creativity up.

JustinDee

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Open to interpretation there.

For Leinster:

Lowest number of turnovers of any Irish backrower who's played over 65% of games this season.

Fewest number of tackles of any tier 1/2/3 number 8 in the HC against all the other tier 1/2/3 teams this season.

Most ineffectual forward ball carrier in the pool 5 this season, based on metres per carry.

For Ireland:

Most ineffectual back row ball carrier in the 6N's, based on metres per carry.

Highest number of missed tackles of any number 8 who started more then 3 games for their country in the 6N's.

Heaslip is all over the pitch, he's very fit and is one of the first to every situation. My question is how much impact is he having against teams of note?

You make a good point about the lack of specialised options.

If these are anything other than official stats, you are repeating the jottings of someone probably in their transition year, giving it a go for some work experience and enjoying free access to the media gantry.
The backrows that Heaslip have been playing in are all about interchangeable roles at each phase of play between players with multiple skillsets. He is regularly one of highest fetchers, and always up there in tackle count. As well as the work he does around the contact area, he is also a top class international defensive operator/marshall/organiser.

Fits Morris

My revised Test XV (and first replacements) as of 29/4/13

15. Halfpenny - Wales (Hogg - Scotland)
14. Cuthbert - Wales (Bowe - Ireland)
13. Tuilagi - England (Davies - Wales)
12. Roberts - Wales (O'Driscoll - Ireland)
11. North - Wales (Zebo - Ireland)
10. Wilkinson - England (Sexton - Ireland)
9. Phillips - Wales (Youngs - England)
8. Faletau - Wales (Beattie - Scotland)
7. Tipuric - Wales (O'Brien - Ireland)
6. Croft - England (Lydiate - Wales)
5. Wyn-Jones - Wales (Parling - England)
4. O'Connell - Ireland (Hamilton - Scotland)
3. Jones - Wales (Cole - England)
2. Hibbard - Wales (Youngs - England)
1. Sheridan - England (Jenkins - Wales)

Other squad members:
Kearney (Ireland)
Trimble (Ireland)
Farrell (England)
Care (England)
Warburton (Wales)
Evans (Wales)
Murray (Scotland)
Best (Ireland)

15 Wales
10 England
9 Ireland
4 Scotland

Captain: Phillips (Wales)

trouttrout

Fits Morris wrote: »

My revised Test XV (and first replacements) as of 29/4/13

15. Halfpenny - Wales (Hogg - Scotland)
14. Cuthbert - Wales (Bowe - Ireland)
13. Tuilagi - England (Davies - Wales)
12. Roberts - Wales (O'Driscoll - Ireland)
11. North - Wales (Zebo - Ireland)
10. Wilkinson - England (Sexton - Ireland)
9. Phillips - Wales (Youngs - England)
8. Faletau - Wales (Beattie - Scotland)
7. Tipuric - Wales (O'Brien - Ireland)
6. Croft - England (Lydiate - Wales)
5. Wyn-Jones - Wales (Parling - England)
4. O'Connell - Ireland (Hamilton - Scotland)
3. Jones - Wales (Cole - England)
2. Hibbard - Wales (Youngs - England)
1. Sheridan - England (Jenkins - Wales)

Other squad members:
Kearney (Ireland)
Trimble (Ireland)
Farrell (England)
Care (England)
Warburton (Wales)
Evans (Wales)
Murray (Scotland)
Best (Ireland)

15 Wales
10 England
9 Ireland
4 Scotland

Captain: Phillips (Wales)

God I hope that isn't anywhere near the test team

Healy 3rd choice loosehead!?

Rightwing

Fits Morris wrote: »

My revised Test XV (and first replacements) as of 29/4/13

15. Halfpenny - Wales (Hogg - Scotland)
14. Cuthbert - Wales (Bowe - Ireland)
13. Tuilagi - England (Davies - Wales)
12. Roberts - Wales (O'Driscoll - Ireland)
11. North - Wales (Zebo - Ireland)
10. Wilkinson - England (Sexton - Ireland)
9. Phillips - Wales (Youngs - England)
8. Faletau - Wales (Beattie - Scotland)
7. Tipuric - Wales (O'Brien - Ireland)
6. Croft - England (Lydiate - Wales)
5. Wyn-Jones - Wales (Parling - England)
4. O'Connell - Ireland (Hamilton - Scotland)
3. Jones - Wales (Cole - England)
2. Hibbard - Wales (Youngs - England)
1. Sheridan - England (Jenkins - Wales)

Other squad members:
Kearney (Ireland)
Trimble (Ireland)
Farrell (England)
Care (England)
Warburton (Wales)
Evans (Wales)
Murray (Scotland)
Best (Ireland)

15 Wales
10 England
9 Ireland
4 Scotland

Captain: Phillips (Wales)

Good test team, I'd have Sexton in ahead of Wilko, but I'd hope he's brought. Captain certainly won't be correct.

awec

Wilkinson ahead of Sexton says it all :pac:

Phillips as captain!?

:eek:

sydthebeat

Trimble hasnt a hope of travelling

Liveforrugby

Fits Morris wrote: »

My revised Test XV (and first replacements) as of 29/4/13

15. Halfpenny - Wales (Hogg - Scotland)
14. Cuthbert - Wales (Bowe - Ireland)
13. Tuilagi - England (Davies - Wales)
12. Roberts - Wales (O'Driscoll - Ireland)
11. North - Wales (Zebo - Ireland)
10. Wilkinson - England (Sexton - Ireland)
9. Phillips - Wales (Youngs - England)
8. Faletau - Wales (Beattie - Scotland)
7. Tipuric - Wales (O'Brien - Ireland)
6. Croft - England (Lydiate - Wales)
5. Wyn-Jones - Wales (Parling - England)
4. O'Connell - Ireland (Hamilton - Scotland)
3. Jones - Wales (Cole - England)
2. Hibbard - Wales (Youngs - England)
1. Sheridan - England (Jenkins - Wales)

Other squad members:
Kearney (Ireland)
Trimble (Ireland)
Farrell (England)
Care (England)
Warburton (Wales)
Evans (Wales)
Murray (Scotland)
Best (Ireland)

15 Wales
10 England
9 Ireland
4 Scotland

Captain: Phillips (Wales)

Fits Morris

sydthebeat wrote: »

Trimble hasnt a hope of travelling

I thought he really put his hand up for the Lions with an outstanding Man of the Match performance against Leinster at the RDS a few weeks ago.

desertcircus

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Open to interpretation there.

For Leinster:

Lowest number of turnovers of any Irish backrower who's played over 65% of games this season.

Fewest number of tackles of any tier 1/2/3 number 8 in the HC against all the other tier 1/2/3 teams this season.

Most ineffectual forward ball carrier in the pool 5 this season, based on metres per carry.

For Ireland:

Most ineffectual back row ball carrier in the 6N's, based on metres per carry.

Highest number of missed tackles of any number 8 who started more then 3 games for their country in the 6N's.

Heaslip is all over the pitch, he's very fit and is one of the first to every situation. My question is how much impact is he having against teams of note?

You make a good point about the lack of specialised options.

Thai is just meaningless cherrypicking. Who were the other number eights? How far off their numbers was Heaslip? What were Leinster's possession stats in HC games and how does that impact on Heaslip's figures? Do Leinster play for turnovers on the deck? What are his tackle figures like when adjusted for time on thefield given that he played all 400 minutes of the Six Nations? Is he really a bad player because he made 41 tackles and missed six, compared to SOB's 43/7 and POM's 28/3? Is a missed tackle count of less than one an hour really notable?

JustinDee

Somebody asked me for a team selection so here's my stab at it:

1 Healy
2 Hibbard
3 Jones (Adam)
4 Wynn Jones
5 O'Connell
6 O'Brien
7 Warburton
8 Heaslip

9 Youngs
10 Sexton
11 North
12 Hook
13 O'Driscoll (c)
14 Bowe
15 Halfpenny

16 Best, 17 Cole, 18 Jenkins, 19 Gray, 20 Jones (Ryan), 21 Philips, 22 Farrell, 23 Hogg

Not sure about nr23 as Tuilagi would be a tight call in also. Hogg is a cracking back-three player and has more to his bow than just running back at defenses. I wouldn't have Jamie Roberts in as distribution would be limited to (defendable) offloads. I don't see what he offers as part of their gameplan. A bit more ingenuity is required.
I think Youngs and Philips will go as I have it above at halfback. I don't see anyone but Sexton starting.
Choice for 12 I find a little limited and I like what Hook has to offer in attack, with boot and all on top of his defensive game. He needs an authoritative skipper though and O'Driscoll on his outside could reap rewards.
The backrow mix against Hooper and most likely Smith will be busy on the deck and also be facing some serious pick-and-go from the Aussie pack. That's a good blend of tacklers with serious names to have on your shoulder as second man in. Not sure of the locks' replacement. Or even Hines, who not only has form but Lions experience. Healy and Adam Jones are the two first players I'd write down in a team list to start. Hibbard and Best is 50/50 in my opinion.

Having said all that, I think Australia will win series 2-1 with Lions keeping traditions and winning the Brissie test at Lang Pk.

Bogota

desertcircus wrote: »

Thai is just meaningless cherrypicking. Who were the other number eights? How far off their numbers was Heaslip? What were Leinster's possession stats in HC games and how does that impact on Heaslip's figures? Do Leinster play for turnovers on the deck? What are his tackle figures like when adjusted for time on thefield given that he played all 400 minutes of the Six Nations? Is he really a bad player because he made 41 tackles and missed six, compared to SOB's 43/7 and POM's 28/3? Is a missed tackle count of less than one an hour really notable?

A poster here has already found a number of errors in those stats.

bilston

I'll have a go...again I'm sure it will all change in a matter of weeks, if not days...!

15 Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues/Wales)
14 Tommy Bowe (Ulster/Ireland)
13 Brian O'Driscoll (Leinster/Ireland) capt
12 Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers/England)
11 George North (Scarlets/Wales)
10 Jonathan Sexton (Leinster/Ireland)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester/England)
1 Cian Healy (Leinster/Ireland)
2 Rory Best (Ulster/Ireland)
3 Adam Jones (Ospreys/Wales)
4 Jim Hamilton (Gloucester/Scotland)
5 Paul O'Connell (Munster/Ireland)
6 Tom Croft (Leicester/England)
7 Justin Tipiruc (Ospreys/Wales)
8 Toby Felatau (Dragons/Wales)

Bench
16 Richard Hibbard (Ospreys/Wales)
17 Gethin Jenkins (Toulon/Wales)
18 Dan Cole (Leicester/England)
19 Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys/Wales)
20 Sean O'Brien (Leinster/Ireland)
21 Mike Phillips (Bayonne/Wales)
22 Jonny Wilkinson (Toulon/England)
23 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow/Scotland)

trouttrout

Ya I did a selection last week but here's my last crack at it before the announcement

15 0.5 penny
14 Cuthbert
13 BOD
12 Roberts
11 Zebo
10 Sexton
9 Youngs
8 Heaslip
7 Tipuric
6 SOB
5 POC
4 AWJ
3 Jones
2 Hibbard
1 Healy

16 Best
17 Jenkins
18 Cole
19 Evans
20 Croft
21 Phillips
22 Wilkinson
23 Hogg

Tox56

Halfpenny
Bowe
BOD
Tuilagi
North
Sexton
Youngs
Faletau
Tipuric
SOB
POC
AWJ
Jones
Hibbard
Healy

My one and only prediction so far, would be surprised if there is a massive deviation from that, plenty of spots up for grabs in the warm-ups as always though

Bogota

1.Healy
2.Hibbard
3.Jones
4.O'Connell
5.Wyn-Jones
6.Robshaw
7.Warburton (I'd have Tipuric personally)
8.Heaslip
9.Youngs
10.Sexton
11.Wade
12.Tuilagi
13.BOD
14.North
15.Halfpenny

sydthebeat

Fits Morris wrote: »

I thought he really put his hand up for the Lions with an outstanding Man of the Match performance against Leinster at the RDS a few weeks ago.

he would be fighting for a place in an area the lions are probably best equipped, apart from flankers.

I like trimble, and think he has been slightly hard done by ireland-wise over the past few seasons... but the lions is definitely a step too far. He should be focusing on trying to impress on the NA tour.