British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

bamboozle

Quint2010 wrote: »

Actually if there is a shock Irish exclusion it could well be Heaslip. He's not the player he was 4 years ago and he can only play one position. Big competition at 8 with Denton, Morgan and Feletau

Completely disagree, Heaslip has won 3 HC medels in the last 4 seasons, he must be doing something right, he didnt play in the 2rd NZ test and we get wallopped 60 nil...he must be doing something right.

Morgan is far to heavy and cumbersome for dry Oz ground, Felatau has benefited from playing alongside Lydiate and Warburton - both of them look after tackling and ruck time allowing Feletau plenty of time to roam the park...Kidney seems to think having POC carry ineffectually off rucks is a wiser option than having POC clearing out rucks freeing up Heaslip & Co to carry effectivelly)

POC and BOD need 6 months of consistently good rugby to be on the plane...not a chance either will be captain in my book.

Irish certs now would be Healy, Best, Heaslip, Kearney, Sexton, SOB and Ferris if he can stay fit.

bilston

bamboozle wrote: »

Completely disagree, Heaslip has won 3 HC medels in the last 4 seasons, he must be doing something right, he didnt play in the 2rd NZ test and we get wallopped 60 nil...he must be doing something right.

Morgan is far to heavy and cumbersome for dry Oz ground, Felatau has benefited from playing alongside Lydiate and Warburton - both of them look after tackling and ruck time allowing Feletau plenty of time to roam the park...Kidney seems to think having POC carry ineffectually off rucks is a wiser option than having POC clearing out rucks freeing up Heaslip & Co to carry effectivelly)

POC and BOD need 6 months of consistently good rugby to be on the plane...not a chance either will be captain in my book.

Irish certs now would be Healy, Best, Heaslip, Kearney, Sexton, SOB and Ferris if he can stay fit.

I'd add Tommy Bowe to that as well.

.ak

bamboozle wrote: »

Completely disagree, Heaslip has won 3 HC medels in the last 4 seasons, he must be doing something right, he didnt play in the 2rd NZ test and we get wallopped 60 nil...he must be doing something right.

To be fair, this means nothing - there hasn't been a decent specialist 8 at Leinster for years so no one's there to usurp him.

Morgan is far to heavy and cumbersome for dry Oz ground, Felatau has benefited from playing alongside Lydiate and Warburton - both of them look after tackling and ruck time allowing Feletau plenty of time to roam the park...Kidney seems to think having POC carry ineffectually off rucks is a wiser option than having POC clearing out rucks freeing up Heaslip & Co to carry effectivelly)

POC and BOD need 6 months of consistently good rugby to be on the plane...not a chance either will be captain in my book.

Irish certs now would be Healy, Best, Heaslip, Kearney, Sexton, SOB and Ferris if he can stay fit.

Agreed. For me, Heaslip is the best 8 in the British Isles... But I'm not sure if he'll fit into Gatlands gameplan. Feletau suits Wales because of his mobility and his hands. When he plays for the Dragons it's like having an extra large centre on the field at times. I think Gatland will look into that.

.ak

bilston wrote: »

I'd add Tommy Bowe to that as well.

I think we have a very romantic notion of Bowe sometimes. We like him because he's big and fast, and is good under high ball... but I don't think he has the x-factor the likes of Halfpenny and (an inform) Fitzgerald have. Gatland would probably look at Bowe as a poor man's North.

That's not my view, btw, I think Bowe is class, but I'm not so sure that view is slightly shaded green....

irishbucsfan

George North will start ahead of Bowe if he's fit. I love Tommy Bowe but he realistically isn't as good as North.

As for the other wing spot, it's completely up in the air. Ashton, Earls, maybe Bowe might switch across, maybe Halfpenny will play there, maybe Tim Visser... who knows?

Tox56

.ak wrote: »

I think we have a very romantic notion of Bowe sometimes. We like him because he's big and fast, and is good under high ball... but I don't think he has the x-factor the likes of Halfpenny and (an inform) Fitzgerald have. Gatland would probably look at Bowe as a poor man's North.

That's not my view, btw, I think Bowe is class, but I'm not so sure that view is slightly shaded green....

He was the top try scorer in the last 6 nations even with Kidney in charge, and he scored 2 tries on his Ulster debut (the most recent one anyway) despite playing a largely unfamiliar team. 24 tries in 49 caps is an excellent international return.

He's not the fastest or biggest winger in the world but the phrase "nose for the tryline" surely doesn't apply more accurately to anyone else?

Not saying he is a dead cert to start (especially given the talent available on the wing), but he will have a great chance. He's also going to be highly rated in Wales too given his time with the Ospreys.

shuffol

I dont really see much X factor in Halfpenny, take away his goalkicking(which may not be needed if Sexton is outhalf) and he's not near as impressive IMO.

Think Heaslips the type of player that you only really appreciate when he's in your side due to his workrate and defense, wouldnt stand out as much to casual observers as the big plays in attack that you expect from an 8 are a lot rarer these days. Personally if the other 2 backrows are going to be Lydiate(if Ferris is injured) and Warburton/Tipuric then I'd prefer to see another ball carrier in there at 8.

.ak

Tox56 wrote: »

He was the top try scorer in the last 6 nations even with Kidney in charge, and he scored 2 tries on his Ulster debut (the most recent one anyway) despite playing a largely unfamiliar team. 24 tries in 49 caps is an excellent international return.

He's not the fastest or biggest winger in the world but the phrase "nose for the tryline" surely doesn't apply more accurately to anyone else?

Not saying he is a dead cert to start (especially given the talent available on the wing), but he will have a great chance. He's also going to be highly rated in Wales too given his time with the Ospreys.

You're dead right. He does have a great strike rate, and that's probably down to the skills I've listed above. But, there's a slight Fionn Carr-ism there. I think his strike rate is also very high because the ball gets shoveled out to him most of the time.

shuffol wrote: »

I dont really see much X factor in Halfpenny, take away his goalkicking(which may not be needed if Sexton is outhalf) and he's not near as impressive IMO.

I think he has a vicious step and lovely hands. Thought he was particularly good in this years 6N... The Scottish game was a great example of his abilities, aside from goal kicking.

bamboozle

irishbucsfan wrote: »

George North will start ahead of Bowe if he's fit. I love Tommy Bowe but he realistically isn't as good as North.

As for the other wing spot, it's completely up in the air. Ashton, Earls, maybe Bowe might switch across, maybe Halfpenny will play there, maybe Tim Visser... who knows?

Earls?

Cant see him making the squad. He'd be behind Ashton, Foden, Visser, Bowe, North for a wing spot....and behind 3 welsh centre, Tuilagi, Hogg for center.

bilston

Sure I'd take North over Tommy, but there's no other winger in European rugby I'd rank over him at the minute.

Edit - Just to explain that, Tommy is quicker than people give him credit for but I'm sure that debate has been had on here before. He has an excellent skillset now, he has a great offloading game and his support lines are up there with the best. I think he's a powerful winger as well.

shuffol

North plays left wing for Wales anyway.

GerM

I'd be surprised if Earls isn't named. He has international experience at centre, wing and full back and, when playing thus far this season, has looked very sharp. He has shown a willingness to learn and take on board new things. All things you look for in a potential tourist. There's not many backs from these islands that ticks so many boxes.

Fishooks12

GerM wrote: »

I'd be surprised if Earls isn't named. He has international experience at centre, wing and full back and, when playing thus far this season, has looked very sharp. He has shown a willingness to learn and take on board new things. All things you look for in a potential tourist. There's not many backs from these islands that ticks so many boxes.

I think Earls will more than likely travel. Especially given how short we are at 12 and 13

Tox56

I don't think Earls will be the best option in a single position, but the versatility that so often hurts him will probably get him on the plane. It's amazing how naturally talented he is, you'd struggle to find a position in the backline that he wouldn't play well in.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Tox56 wrote: »

I don't think Earls will be the best option in a single position, but the versatility that so often hurts him will probably get him on the plane. It's amazing how naturally talented he is, you'd struggle to find a position in the backline that he wouldn't play well in.

He could easily make the plane and take the 23 shirt for the Test team

Clegg

Heaslips best performance from last season was against New Zealand and he's been Leinsters best performer this season too. He's hitting good form and from an Irish perspective I hope he can keep up the good work for the rest of the season.

BTW Dan Lydiate broke his ankle last month and will most likely miss the 6 Nations. I'm not sure if he will have played enough rugby to be considered for a place in the Lions squad.

bamboozle

GerM wrote: »

I'd be surprised if Earls isn't named. He has international experience at centre, wing and full back and, when playing thus far this season, has looked very sharp. He has shown a willingness to learn and take on board new things. All things you look for in a potential tourist. There's not many backs from these islands that ticks so many boxes.

i'd be surprised if he is, i think he'll be vying with Foden, Hogg & Halfpenny for the utility back role. Unless BOD is injured i cant see him playing centre for Ireland in the 6N's and the three above are better wing/15 utility players.

Hope to be proven wrong though, i think the players at Gatland's disposal will see our strongest squad since '97.

Gatland is a huge fan of Lydiate, if fit he'll travel, he's a quality player.

Higher

Irish potential bolter candidates:

Henderson, Zebo or Madigan...

Neither that likely. Although of the 3 you'd have to go with Madigan considering the dearth of outhalfs playing well.

*bolter generally means an uncapped, young, gamble player. Usually one is brought on every tour*

Fishooks12

Higher wrote: »

Irish potential bolter candidates:

Henderson, Zebo or Madigan...

Neither that likely. Although of the 3 you'd have to go with Madigan considering the dearth of outhalfs playing well.

*bolter generally means an uncapped, young, gamble player. Usually one is brought on every tour*

Can't see Madigan being considered when he's not even starting for Leinster at 10

.ak

Lions squads are generally based on international form. I can't see anyone that's currently killing it at club level making the trip unless they impress this november or in the 6n. So, that for me means there'll be no Irish bolters as they won't get game time.

GerM

bamboozle wrote: »

i'd be surprised if he is, i think he'll be vying with Foden, Hogg & Halfpenny for the utility back role. Unless BOD is injured i cant see him playing centre for Ireland in the 6N's and the three above are better wing/15 utility players.

Hope to be proven wrong though, i think the players at Gatland's disposal will see our strongest squad since '97.

Gatland is a huge fan of Lydiate, if fit he'll travel, he's a quality player.

I think Halfpenny will travel. He can play wing and 15 comfortably and offers a strong kicking option. I think Foden is in with a decent chance but far from certain. He's had some iffy form over the past year punctuated by some eye catching performances and is now injured for the remainder of the year. He'll need to come back strongly to be in the frame. He also doesn't have much experience outside of full back at international level (2 starts on the wing). Hogg is someone that has talent but is in poor teams and will suffer as a result. He's also only ever played 15 internationally which will count against him.

I'd say Earls has more in the locker than any of them right now. He has played across the back line and has looked decent in all of the roles. I think we'll see him in the centre at some point in the 6N whether it's 12 or 13.

I fully agree on Lydiate. He's a class act and reminds me of a more dynamic Simon Easterby. If he's fit and can get even a handful of Pro12 games under his belt, I'd say Gatland will bring him.

bilston

In the past uncapped players might have toured but that was before countries played 10/11 games a year. I'd be surprised if any uncapped players tour. There may be tourists who are currently uncapped now but come April I think they'll all be capped.

shuffol

Earls travelled in 09 on the back of 1 cap against Canada in the AI's. Quinlan was selected also despite being not being near the international side, admittedly there was a fairly unique set of circumstances that year.

bilston

shuffol wrote: »

Earls travelled in 09 on the back of 1 cap against Canada in the AI's. Quinlan was selected also despite being not being near the international side, admittedly there was a fairly unique set of circumstances that year.

I suppose you could say that Earls and Halfpenny were the two bolters in 2009.

Swiwi

GerM wrote: »

I think Halfpenny will travel. He can play wing and 15 comfortably and offers a strong kicking option. I think Foden is in with a decent chance but far from certain. He's had some iffy form over the past year punctuated by some eye catching performances and is now injured for the remainder of the year. He'll need to come back strongly to be in the frame. He also doesn't have much experience outside of full back at international level (2 starts on the wing). Hogg is someone that has talent but is in poor teams and will suffer as a result. He's also only ever played 15 internationally which will count against him.

I'd say Earls has more in the locker than any of them right now. He has played across the back line and has looked decent in all of the roles. I think we'll see him in the centre at some point in the 6N whether it's 12 or 13.

I fully agree on Lydiate. He's a class act and reminds me of a more dynamic Simon Easterby. If he's fit and can get even a handful of Pro12 games under his belt, I'd say Gatland will bring him.

I would definitely take Halfpenny - his accurate long distance goalkicking could be a series winner. I would have both Kearney & Halfpenny in the match day 22, and depending on weather conditions, how the series is panning out etc make a decision on who starts nearer match day.

Swiwi

Higher wrote: »

Irish potential bolter candidates:

Henderson, Zebo or Madigan...

Neither that likely. Although of the 3 you'd have to go with Madigan considering the dearth of outhalfs playing well.

*bolter generally means an uncapped, young, gamble player. Usually one is brought on every tour*

I wouldn't have Zebo near a Lions squad - he's about 2 seasons too inexperienced at present, and you need players with impeccable positional sense, rock solidity under the high ball, and a good kicking game. My views might change if he has a good 6N though.

Swiwi

.ak wrote: »

To be fair, this means nothing - there hasn't been a decent specialist 8 at Leinster for years so no one's there to usurp him.



Agreed. For me, Heaslip is the best 8 in the British Isles... But I'm not sure if he'll fit into Gatlands gameplan. Feletau suits Wales because of his mobility and his hands. When he plays for the Dragons it's like having an extra large centre on the field at times. I think Gatland will look into that.

Scottish loosies tend to get overlooked because of the general mire of the Scottish team performace as a whole. Denton in a proper team would go well.

Swiwi

Podge_irl wrote: »

SOB was absolutely exceptional at 7 down in NZ. He will presumably slot in at 7 again for Leinster - he is really beginning to demonstrate the skills of being a great 7 as opposed to just a barnstorming general backrow player. I think he'll travel, but he'll struggle to get ahead of Warburton/Tipuric for the test shirt. He's no better off at 6 either - he has Ferris and Lydiate to compete with there. I think he could be an excellent bench option though.

SOB made a good fist of 7, but he's a 6>8 for me. My match day squad would have 2 out of Ferris, SOB & Croft. Ferris & SOB for grunt, but Croft is an excellent line out option, and if 4&5 aren't securing reliable ball, Croft is your man. Lineouts generally more important than scrums these days. I guess Lydiate would need to be considered too. Ferris needs to have an injury-free 6N I would think.

Swiwi

.ak wrote: »

I think we have a very romantic notion of Bowe sometimes. We like him because he's big and fast, and is good under high ball... but I don't think he has the x-factor the likes of Halfpenny and (an inform) Fitzgerald have. Gatland would probably look at Bowe as a poor man's North.

That's not my view, btw, I think Bowe is class, but I'm not so sure that view is slightly shaded green....

Who is the AB top try-scorer? No, it's not Cullen nor Rococoko nor Lomu etc. It's Howlett. Remember any of Doug's tries? Cos, I don't. But he is the best player at being in the right place at the right time that I can recall. Reads a game with ease. Bowe is similar - reads the game well. Would definitely make my squad, but I agree may not be automatic first 15 player.

Swiwi

GerM wrote: »

I'd be surprised if Earls isn't named. He has international experience at centre, wing and full back and, when playing thus far this season, has looked very sharp. He has shown a willingness to learn and take on board new things. All things you look for in a potential tourist. There's not many backs from these islands that ticks so many boxes.

Needs to get thru a 6N without gifting a try through missing a gimme tackle (England, build up to RWC. Wales, RWC 1/4 final). Lions series can be decided on such moments. If he can tick that box, could well travel.