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British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

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    #482
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    Swiwi wrote: »
    SOB made a good fist of 7, but he's a 6>8 for me. My match day squad would have 2 out of Ferris, SOB & Croft. Ferris & SOB for grunt, but Croft is an excellent line out option, and if 4&5 aren't securing reliable ball, Croft is your man. Lineouts generally more important than scrums these days. I guess Lydiate would need to be considered too. Ferris needs to have an injury-free 6N I would think.

    SOB was really stepping up as a 7 before his injury, he seemed to improve with every game, and even though he was carrying that injury in NZ he was excellent. Outplayed a certain Richie McCaw once or twice in that series, and although the great man wasn't at his best that is no mean feat in his own backyard.

    It took him a while to adapt to a more complex role than he was used to, but he was starting to learn how to make best use of his size as an openside, and it was reaping rewards. You try moving him off the ball when he gets in that jackal position. Hopefully he comes back playing his best, if he does he has a great chance of traveling (at the very least).


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    #483
    Cpt_Blackbeard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Cpt_Blackbeard


    Swiwi wrote: »
    I wouldn't have Zebo near a Lions squad - he's about 2 seasons too inexperienced at present, and you need players with impeccable positional sense, rock solidity under the high ball, and a good kicking game. My views might change if he has a good 6N though.

    Two out of three ain't bad considering that you're ignoring the most important string to a wingers bow: an ability to score from anywhere.


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    #484
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Zebo has been very strong so far. Looking forward to seeing him again. He could put pressure on Earls if he keeps the 11 jersey and Earls returns to the center.


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    #485
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    Swiwi wrote: »
    Needs to get thru a 6N without gifting a try through missing a gimme tackle (England, build up to RWC. Wales, RWC 1/4 final). Lions series can be decided on such moments. If he can tick that box, could well travel.

    Earls did exactly that in this years six nations


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    #486
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    Swiwi wrote: »
    I wouldn't have Zebo near a Lions squad - he's about 2 seasons too inexperienced at present, and you need players with impeccable positional sense, rock solidity under the high ball, and a good kicking game. My views might change if he has a good 6N though.

    These are actually some of Zebo's biggest strengths


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    #487
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    Yeah, defence is the problem with Zebo, he's got a cannon of a left boot


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    #488
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    Tox56 wrote: »
    Yeah, defence is the problem with Zebo, he's got a cannon of a left boot

    And very composed under the high ball


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    #489
    Fireball07
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    Yeah I'd be very surprised if he was picked for the Lions, because there are a lot of good back 3 players, but Zebo is as good as anyone under a high ball and has a monster of a left foot. Defence is still a concern admittedly.


    Earls is a tough one...very talented, very versatile. I'd pick him as a utility back myself but Hogg is very good too. And then you've got Bowe, North, Foden, Cuthbert, Brown, Halfpenny, Ashton, Kearney, etc. all battling for back 3 positions too.

    All depends on form I suppose.


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    #490
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    These are actually some of Zebo's biggest strengths

    I would say the AB coaches licked their lips when Zebo was selected. I just think he needs a solid 6N to show provincial form can translate to internatoinal.


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    #491
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    Earls did exactly that in this years six nations

    Well I hope for his sake he can repeat. I can easily see Digby Ioane running at him, over him, around him - but I guess George North or Tuilagi will make good practice.


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    #492
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    Tox56 wrote: »
    SOB was really stepping up as a 7 before his injury, he seemed to improve with every game, and even though he was carrying that injury in NZ he was excellent. Outplayed a certain Richie McCaw once or twice in that series, and although the great man wasn't at his best that is no mean feat in his own backyard.

    It took him a while to adapt to a more complex role than he was used to, but he was starting to learn how to make best use of his size as an openside, and it was reaping rewards. You try moving him off the ball when he gets in that jackal position. Hopefully he comes back playing his best, if he does he has a great chance of traveling (at the very least).

    I think SOB is excellent. Along with Cian Healy he was routinely mentioned in the NZ press during the Irish tour, which given how inward looking the NZ press is, speaks volumes. I see him as more of a Jerry Collins/Jerome Kaino/Liam Messam style of player, rather than a Michael Jones/Josh Cronfeld/Richie McCaw.

    Nullifying Pocock & Genia will be key, and even as a Kiwi I freely admit that Pocock is the breakdown king at present - so Gatland needs to decide if SOB at 7 is the man for the job. Personally I think he will go with Warburton.


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    #493
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »
    Two out of three ain't bad considering that you're ignoring the most important string to a wingers bow: an ability to score from anywhere.

    Not sure anymore about that. More of an added bonus than a must. NZ deliberately moved away from Rococoko & Sivivatu (who could score from anywhere) to Cory Jane & Richard Kahui etc.


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    #494
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Swiwi wrote: »

    I think SOB is excellent. Along with Cian Healy he was routinely mentioned in the NZ press during the Irish tour, which given how inward looking the NZ press is, speaks volumes. I see him as more of a Jerry Collins/Jerome Kaino/Liam Messam style of player, rather than a Michael Jones/Josh Cronfeld/Richie McCaw.

    Nullifying Pocock & Genia will be key, and even as a Kiwi I freely admit that Pocock is the breakdown king at present - so Gatland needs to decide if SOB at 7 is the man for the job. Personally I think he will go with Warburton.

    Warburton is a cert. I don't care what Gatland says in public, there is no way he won't pick his own national captain in the team and while that may or may not be the right call for the Lions I could completely understand it from Gatlands position. But that's the downside of selecting a current national coach as Lions head coach.


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    #495
    Ciaran-Irl
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭Ciaran-Irl


    I don't think either of Ferris of Warburton have much of a chance of getting through the tour without injuring themselves. They're too intense, and both of them are made of glass. I would expect Lydiate, O'Brien and Heaslip to end up as the test back row because they'll be the last men standing.

    Tipuric is the most likely 'bolter' for me. Hogg & Gray will travel, but I don't see either making the test 22. They'll be glad to have some Scottish representation.


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    #496
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    Ciaran-Irl wrote: »
    I don't think either of Ferris of Warburton have much of a chance of getting through the tour without injuring themselves. They're too intense, and both of them are made of glass. I would expect Lydiate, O'Brien and Heaslip to end up as the test back row because they'll be the last men standing.

    Tipuric is the most likely 'bolter' for me. Hogg & Gray will travel, but I don't see either making the test 22. They'll be glad to have some Scottish representation.

    Out of interest, does anyone else rate some of the Scottish loosies, or I am being eccentric/going out on a limb?


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    #497
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Swiwi wrote: »
    Out of interest, does anyone else rate some of the Scottish loosies, or I am being eccentric/going out on a limb?

    Denton's a good player.


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    #498
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Swiwi wrote: »
    Not sure anymore about that. More of an added bonus than a must. NZ deliberately moved away from Rococoko & Sivivatu (who could score from anywhere) to Cory Jane & Richard Kahui etc.

    I'd say the very first trait any international player has to have in any position these days is be able to defend.


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    #499
    Fireball07
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    Ciaran-Irl wrote: »
    Tipuric is the most likely 'bolter' for me. Hogg & Gray will travel, but I don't see either making the test 22. They'll be glad to have some Scottish representation.

    I like Tipuric...superb player. But Steffon Armitage could also be in with a shout.


    I would be surprised if Gray didn't start tbh, who do you think will start ahead of him?

    And the Scots rate Hogg really really highly...might be because they haven't had a very talented outside back in years, of course.

    I reckon Laidlaw should go too.
    Swiwi wrote: »
    Out of interest, does anyone else rate some of the Scottish loosies, or I am being eccentric/going out on a limb?

    I was impressed with Denton, but does he maybe have a touch of Powell about him? Flatters to deceive a bit...

    I think Rennie is better tbh, but not in the same class as some of the other back row options available.


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    #500
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    Steffon Armitage surely has the most obvious potential for a "bolter" in Lions history. Top 14 player of the year in what will be a vital position v the Aussies. Hope England call him up, although they seem to have built up a love-affair with Robshaw at 7, so Lancaster has a big decision to make. In such a competitive area I can't see Armitage getting a Lions call up without recent international rugby.


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    #501
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Rennie is a good player, as is Barclay. Beattie had one great season a while back but seems to have fallen back from there. Not sure any will challenge for a starting spot in the Lions team though tbh.


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    #502
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    danthefan wrote: »
    Rennie is a good player, as is Barclay. Beattie had one great season a while back but seems to have fallen back from there. Not sure any will challenge for a starting spot in the Lions team though tbh.

    I just hope Gatland can avoid judging a player by his team, and consider all players on their merits. There have been some very very ordinary ABs selected in the past, because they had the good fortune to play with the Crusaders, and some very good players who struggled to get chosen because they were with the Chiefs for example (Chiefs pre this season)


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    #503
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Swiwi wrote: »
    Out of interest, does anyone else rate some of the Scottish loosies, or I am being eccentric/going out on a limb?

    No, they're good, but they tend to have a great season or two and then disappear off the radar somewhat or at least see their form tail off significantly. Scottish rugby has had Kelly Brown, Ally Hogg, Alisdair Strokosch, Johnny Beattie, Simon Taylor, Simon Gray, John Barclay, Nathan Hines, Richie Vernon, Ross Rennie and David Denton all start 6N games in just the past four 6N tournaments in the back row.

    If Scotland ever had some consistency to establish a solid trio in the back row, they could have a world class unit.


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    #504
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Swiwi wrote: »
    Well I hope for his sake he can repeat. I can easily see Digby Ioane running at him, over him, around him - but I guess George North or Tuilagi will make good practice.

    Ioane didn't run over him in Croke Park (and that was very early in Earls career when there were question marks over his defence).


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    #505
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    jm08 wrote: »
    Ioane didn't run over him in Croke Park (and that was very early in Earls career when there were question marks over his defence).

    OK, I will just have to agree to disagree with most of ye on boards. I wouldn't risk Earls in my 15, I think he is a defensive liability. There, I have stuck my colours to the mast, but it would be great if he proved me wrong!


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    #506
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    jm08 wrote: »
    Ioane didn't run over him in Croke Park (and that was very early in Earls career when there were question marks over his defence).

    Ioane would have been doing well considering he was playing centre and Earls only came on at 11 for 25 minutes!


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    #507
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Swiwi wrote: »
    OK, I will just have to agree to disagree with most of ye on boards. I wouldn't risk Earls in my 15, I think he is a defensive liability. There, I have stuck my colours to the mast, but it would be great if he proved me wrong!

    Earls' defence has improved hugely over the last twelve months, including at international level.


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    #508
    jamiedav2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Earls' defence has improved hugely over the last twelve months, including at international level.

    15 is a very different ballgame though, particularly at Lions level.


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    #509
    cgpg5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,656 ✭✭✭cgpg5


    Fireball07 wrote: »
    I like Tipuric...superb player. But Steffon Armitage could also be in with a shout.


    I would be surprised if Gray didn't start tbh, who do you think will start ahead of him?

    Tipuric is a great talent alright. Steffon has been immense for a superb Toulon team, I still rate Robshaw that bit higher though. great leader too tbf better than I originally thought.

    Gray will surely start indeed. On current form though Lawes must start aswell. Been top notch in the premiership so far. Always rated him very highly but been plagued by injuries. A big six nations and he's in the team imo


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    #510
    shuffol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭shuffol


    I'm still not convinced SOB has the game at openside to compete with the best in the world, his displays against NZ were heartening but he has a monstrous workrate in defence and was always likely to stand out in games where the opposition had so much possession. he remains the most natural ball carrier in the country and it'd be nice to see him able to focus more on that part of his game.


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    #511
    MLC61
    Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭MLC61


    Higher wrote: »
    Irish potential bolter candidates:

    Henderson, Zebo or Madigan...

    Neither that likely. Although of the 3 you'd have to go with Madigan considering the dearth of outhalfs playing well.

    *bolter generally means an uncapped, young, gamble player. Usually one is brought on every tour*

    Was Zebo not capped in the first test in the summer tour to NZ?


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