British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Quint2010

Personally I think O'Driscoll has a better chance than O'Connell. O'Connell does not have a great record in big games.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Teferi wrote: »

After coming back from major injury to playing a huge role in the business end of the season for Leinster which ended in him having knee surgery followed by winning a Heineken Cup less than 7 days after that surgery and competing for the Pro12 the week after that followed by 2 good games and 1 bad one against New Zealand I really don't think his chances of gone down.

I could understand why you would want them to though.

He captained us to possibly our worst defeat of the professional era, and you're trying to call me out for saying this will damage his chances of captaining the Lions? :rolleyes:

Teferi

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

He captained us to possibly our worst defeat of the professional era, and you're trying to call me out for saying this will damage his chances of captaining the Lions? :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

I don't think he will captain the lions.

I do think he will travel and the NZ defeat is meaningless in the long run.

Podge_irl

Tox56 wrote: »

That third game vs NZ was close to the worst I have seen BOD play, but he was hardly the only one. I can't see the Lions coaches focusing on that game in a years time.

Not at all, they'll be forgotten largely. He was fairly anonymous in the first test too though (again he wasn't alone in this). It certainly won't have helped his cause any.

I don't think there is any chance of him captaining. He is too old and his position in the test team far from certain. I think POC has a better chance, though don't think it will be him either. Though I don't think Phat's point is wholly without merit.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Teferi wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I don't think he will captain the lions.

I do think he will travel and the NZ defeat is meaningless in the long run.

That explains the selective quote anyway. Take a statement about captaincy out of context in order to facilitate a sly jab at my expense. Great job.

CatFromHue

It's not as meaningless as you might think as Eng, Scot, and Wales all play two or three teams from the Tri Nations (not 4 Nations) in November whereas we just play one. Recent performance against the big 3 may come into reckoning for the Lions selectors at some stage.

Though 6 Nations and form next season would still be higher for me.

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

Good interview here with POC & Brian O'Driscoll about the last Lions tour. Some interesting things to say about captaincy (and

Good interview but I missed anything about Gatland

CatFromHue

Podge_irl wrote: »

Good interview but I missed anything about Gatland

No me neither. BOD does say:

"Sometimes in modern rugby there's a cop-out with coaches, in that they say, 'You're an experienced player, you teach yourself'. That's nonsense. Players need to be taught every time they go out on to a rugby pitch. Trying new things and hearing new voices is important."

but that could be any coach he's had.

Quint2010

CatFromHue wrote: »

No me neither. BOD does say:

" Trying new things and hearing new voices is important."

Prophetic words from BOD..

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

Good interview but I missed anything about Gatland

O'Connell: Yeah, I would have been aware of him getting emotional. There was a lot of that from all the coaches. So many coaches these days are clinical and dispassionate, but that went away on this Lions tour. The way 'Geech' and Warren Gatland and Shaun Edwards spoke about the Lions was kind of cool that way. It was very old school. We went back in time.

Someone posted that the Irish lads apparently didn't like/rate Gatland - this would contradict that.

If you read that article, the captain needs to have the ability to get people to gel together very quickly and they would need to be supremely confident in themselves to do that. I doubt if the team will be captained by anyone who has not been on a Lions before, so that rules out quite a few like Warburton.

One player that everyone of the Irish lads seem to speak highly of is Mike Phillips (that may be because everyone thinks he is a right knacker on the pitch and he is surprising nice off it!) , so maybe he might have an outside shot. I think it will be an Irish captain though considering all the coaching staff, management etc. are coming from the other nations.

jm08

Quint2010 wrote: »

Personally I think O'Driscoll has a better chance than O'Connell. O'Connell does not have a great record in big games.

He captained one winning Lions Test for starters.

TheKeenMachine

jm08 wrote: »

I think it will be an Irish captain though considering all the coaching staff, management etc. are coming from the other nations.

Actually, on the topic of coaching staff, does anyone else think Joe Schmidt could be backs coach?

Quint2010

jm08 wrote: »

He captained one winning Lions Test for starters.

Yeah-a dead rubber when the Saffer's rested half their team.

Quint2010

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

Actually, on the topic of coaching staff, does anyone else think Joe Schmidt could be backs coach?

He should be but I honestly think at that stage him and his family will be on the plane back to NZ. Why would he do it? He will have bigger fish to fry

Hagz

jm08 wrote: »

He captained one winning Lions Test for starters.

On his third try, against this team, after they won the series
1. Tendai Mtawarira
2. Chiliboy Ralepelle
3. John Smit
4. Johann Muller
5. Victor Matfield
6. Heinrich Brussow
7. Juan Smith
8. Ryan Kankowski
9. Fourie du Preez
10. Morne Steyn
11. Johgikhaya Nokwe
12. Wynan Olivier
13. Jaque Fourie
14. Odwa Ndungane
15. Zane Kirchner

O'Driscoll had one test/chance, and it was against a NZ team who were still playing to win, against this team.
1. Tony Woodcock
2. Kevin Mealamu
3. Carl Hayman
4. Chris Jack
5. Ali Williams
6. Jerry Collins
7. Richie McCaw
8. Rodney So'oialo
9. Justin Marshall
10. Dan Carter
11. Sitiveni Sivivatu
12. Aaron Mauger
13. Tana Umaga
14. Doug Howlett
15. Leon MacDonald

*Disclaimer: I am NOT stating an opinion regarding anything to do with this thread. I am not saying O'Connell is/was/will be a better captain, nor am I saying O'Driscoll is/was/will be a better captain. I am just showing how bad the quoted argument is.

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

Someone posted that the Irish lads apparently didn't like/rate Gatland - this would contradict that.

Ah, apologies. Missed that.

Gatland is a good coach. Whether or not the Irish players like him I struggle to think they don't respect him.

Podge_irl

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

Actually, on the topic of coaching staff, does anyone else think Joe Schmidt could be backs coach?

Can't think of a better candidate. It depends on whether he is planning on returning to NZ at the end of this season and on whether he would need to leave the Leinster job prior to the end of the season. I can't see him doing the latter tbh.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Quint2010 wrote: »

Yeah-a dead rubber when the Saffer's rested half their team.

Still the only person playing today who can make that claim...

jm08

Hagz wrote: »

On his third try, against this team, after they won the series
1. Tendai Mtawarira
2. Chiliboy Ralepelle
3. John Smit
4. Johann Muller
5. Victor Matfield
6. Heinrich Brussow
7. Juan Smith
8. Ryan Kankowski
9. Fourie du Preez
10. Morne Steyn
11. Johgikhaya Nokwe
12. Wynan Olivier
13. Jaque Fourie
14. Odwa Ndungane
15. Zane Kirchner

O'Driscoll had one test/chance, and it was against a NZ team who were still playing to win, against this team.
1. Tony Woodcock
2. Kevin Mealamu
3. Carl Hayman
4. Chris Jack
5. Ali Williams
6. Jerry Collins
7. Richie McCaw
8. Rodney So'oialo
9. Justin Marshall
10. Dan Carter
11. Sitiveni Sivivatu
12. Aaron Mauger
13. Tana Umaga
14. Doug Howlett
15. Leon MacDonald

*Disclaimer: I am NOT stating an opinion regarding anything to do with this thread. I am not saying O'Connell is/was/will be a better captain, nor am I saying O'Driscoll is/was/will be a better captain. I am just showing how bad the quoted argument is.

I didn't realise it was a comparison to Brian o'Driscoll you were after. If you want to compare the two of them, you should take into account that invariably when Paul O'Connell was captaining the team, Brian O'Driscoll was missing. It might be fairer to compare any big games that Ireland won with Brian as captain when Paul O'Connell was injured. You also have to take into account that Brian has captained Ireland 60+ times and Paul O'Connell about 10 times - still, the draw in Paris this year wasn't bad with Brian missing, something Ireland haven't done in a long time.

Anyway, I don't think Brian will be in the running as Gatland will want a forward to captain the team and from what I can gather Brian kind of enjoyed not being captain the last time.

As for POC captaining a winning Lions test match against a poor side - the Lions were decimated by injuries - Tommy Bowe played as a centre for the first time in his career for starters so it was pretty much a level playing field.

jm08

Quint2010 wrote: »

He should be but I honestly think at that stage him and his family will be on the plane back to NZ. Why would he do it? He will have bigger fish to fry

What bigger fish? Has Schmidt got a coaching job back in New Zealand next season?

Hagz

jm08 wrote: »

I didn't realise it was a comparison to Brian o'Driscoll you were after.

I'm not after a comparison to Brian O'Driscoll, I interpreted your post as a comparison between the two in terms of their success in captaining the Lions to a victory.

bamboozle

right now,

nailed on test starters (if fit)
Best
Grey
Phillips
Roberts
Warburton

i reckon the captain will be either Warburton or Best, bearing in mind the big match up in these tests will be Warburton v's Pocock. Gatland as a former hooker might consider Best an ideal candidate for captain, i know i would.

i reckon this will be the strongest lions squad since '97 and it will be interesting how Gatland approaches it, Oz scrum is not to be feared so will we go with Jenkins Best and Jones in front row to secure scrum dominance or plump with Healy for his broken play ability on the hard ground.

i reckon BOD and POC will need big injury free seasons to make the plane. If fit i reckon we'll see Heaslip, SOB, Bowe, Best, Healy, Ross, Kearney, Ferris and POC make the plane, i reckon the tour might be 12 months too late for BOD unfortunately.

i love Lions rugby.

We're pretty disillusioned as fans if we think that BOD or POC deserve starts on merit after the season they've both had.

Injuries can't simply be "excepted" when it comes to a tour, you need players that can survive some bashing.

Luckily for both, they'll have plenty of time to prove that they're more than worth their place, but if the teams were picked tomorrow, and were playing on Wednesday, they'd both be struggling for inclusion in a starting role, let alone a captain's position.

GerM

I don't think there's a single nailed on starter for the Lions at this point which means the captaincy is very much still up in the air. The most likely candidates are probably Warburton and POC. The likes of SOB and Lydiate both playing superbly and have a stronger case as the first choice flanks than a Lydiate/Warburton or SOB/Warburton partnership. Factor in Warburton also came off second best repeatedly to Pocock recently. POC is playing well but lock is a seriously competitve area with the likes of Gray, Bradley Davies, Donnacha Ryan and AWJ all having great seasons to at least match POC.

Both POC and Warburton are extremely injury prone also. Warburton missed 2 games in this year's 6N and came off early in three more tests as well as missing a large chunk of the domestic season. POC has managed 3/8 tests this season and is getting a bit older now too.

Every likely starter has someone that provides serious competition and is capable of taking the jersey. I don't think we'll see the coaching team deciding on a captain until late in the day. I genuinely wouldn't rule out: Rory Best, POC, BOD, Rees, Warburton, Robshaw (Ciaran Fitz syndrome) and even a few club/provincial captains. If a senior player with captaincy experience emerges as a nailed on starter, it's not unthinkable that their name will come into the mix. MJ captained the Lions when Dean Richards and Phil de Glanville captained his country and club respectively.

danthefan

I'd bet the house neither BOD nor POC will captain the tour. I don't think either are even completely guaranteed to make the tour, never mind start and captain.

cgpg5

While I'd agree that there are very few nailed on starters as of now, I'd have to say Richie Gray is as nailed on as you'll get.

Quint2010

jm08 wrote: »

What bigger fish? Has Schmidt got a coaching job back in New Zealand next season?

Nothing's been announced but it wouldn't surprise me. His stock has risen hugely since 2010. I reckon this is his last year with Leinster anyway

CIARAN_BOYLE

Quint2010 wrote: »

Nothing's been announced but it wouldn't surprise me. His stock has risen hugely since 2010. I reckon this is his last year with Leinster anyway

His son is in fifth year this year isn't he. They might consider it best to allow him to finish off secondary school here.

The New Zealand system has a different curriculum for final exams and it would probably be bad for him to just attend the last year.

My guess is he will sign a one year extension with Leinster.

Fishooks12

I find it amazing how so few are willing to question the myth of Warburton. The guy is being made out to be a world beater, and while he's shown glimpses of it I think he's a lot more to do to convince me

I think Tipuric is going to be a better player

danthefan

Tipuric looks like a smashing player imo.

Warburton was talked up beyond all recognition in Ireland after the RWC QF, natural openside this, turnovers that. Most people still haven't figured out all he did was tackle. He's a very good player but definitely not standout imo.