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British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

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    #722
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    Deano7788 wrote: »
    Hodgson's retired from internationals.

    Bugger...


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    #723
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Hodgson is playing for Saracens now. Retired from international rugby. I'd say he's definitely tightened up his defense these days. He hasn't started many games in the Premiership but in that competition Saracens' defense has been very tight and I'd imagine he's learned a lot under that structure.


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    #724
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    Swiwi wrote: »
    Heaslip previously got red-carded for stamping in NZ. The one thing a Lions Captain can't do is get himself sent-off: it sends a bad message to the team + inevitably costs his side the match. I am also not sure Heaslip will be the first choice No 8 either.

    O'Driscoll or O'Connell would seem the best Irish choices for captain, although Best has his merits: but would Welsh/Scottish/English players give Best the same respect that O'Driscoll & O'Connell would have? He is less well-established than those two.
    totallegend wrote: »
    the sending off criteria rules out O'Connell and Warburton by the way. That's a silly comment, particularly for someone like Heaslip who has an otherwise impeccable record. I don't think he will or should be captain but still...

    Edit: beaten to it by Scioch

    Memo to self: must not have an opinion. Must meekly follow the masses like a lamb. Do come from a country of sheep after all...


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    #725
    bamboozle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    some of the odds on PP are interesting

    to be Captain
    Warburton 4/11, Robshaw 4/1, POC 12/1, BOD 14/1, Best & Hartley 25/1, Heaslip 80/1 - it warburton's form continues to suffer and Tupiric continues to rise it might be between Best, Hartley & Heaslip as i just cant see Robshaw travelling ahead of Warburton, Tipuric or SOB.

    1st Test Starter
    Heaslip 2/1, Lydiate 5/1, Tipuric 18/1 (warburton 2/7, SOB 4/6, Robshaw 6/4, Ferris 7/4)


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    #726
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    Amazing odds on Robshaw for someone who will be lucky to travel, let alone start.


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    #727
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Swiwi wrote: »
    Memo to self: must not have an opinion. Must meekly follow the masses like a lamb. Do come from a country of sheep after all...

    You're entitled to all the opinions you want, just expect to be pulled up on it when you say something that you haven't fully thought through.


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    #728
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    I think if someone has a poor disciplinary record, like Jamie Cudmore for example, that would rule them out.

    Heaslip kneeing McCaw was a very stupid, and dangerous, thing to do. Since then he has only picked up 1 yellow card, he'd 8 before that for Leinster :eek: , so I think it's safe to say that he learned alot from losing his cool that day. Not just from the scoreline!!


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    #729
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Tox56 wrote: »
    Amazing odds on Robshaw for someone who will be lucky to travel, let alone start.
    I don't think that's an opinion shared outside Ireland.

    I don't think there's much chance he won't travel.


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    #730
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    totallegend wrote: »
    You're entitled to all the opinions you want, just expect to be pulled up on it when you say something that you haven't fully thought through.

    But pull me up with evidence, not off-handed dismissive comments. I can be persuaded with reasoning...


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    #731
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    I think if someone has a poor disciplinary record, like Jamie Cudmore for example, that would rule them out.

    Heaslip kneeing McCaw was a very stupid, and dangerous, thing to do. Since then he has only picked up 1 yellow card, he'd 8 before that for Leinster :eek: , so I think it's safe to say that he learned alot from losing his cool that day. Not just from the scoreline!!

    Yeah, the match went flat just like that, as Ireland with 14 was never going to beat NZ in NZ with 15. From what you've written, looks like he has improved his discipline no end. English fans in particular would never let him forget it, if a red card cost the Lions a series victory.


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    #732
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I don't think that's an opinion shared outside Ireland.

    I don't think there's much chance he won't travel.

    I'd say it's probably shared in Wales given who they have at 7!

    Maybe travel is a bit of an exaggeration, but he'll be doing very well to start for the test team. I think he'd make a very good midweek captain.

    I guess it depends if SOB gets back fit and who starts for Wales in the 6 Nations. Even if SOB doesn't start he is an ideal bench option (can cover all 3 backrow positions very well), so it's either start or nothing for Robshaw I think. If you want a certain starter as your captain, I wouldn't think Robshaw would be it.

    Then again, if you believe Barnes he's Richie McCaw Mark II...


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    #733
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Swiwi wrote: »
    But pull me up with evidence, not off-handed dismissive comments. I can be persuaded with reasoning...

    I did. I pointed out that two of the other candidates, Warburton and O'Connell, had previously been red-carded. I pointed out that Heaslip's disciplinary record is otherwise immaculate, not something you can say about many back-rowers. I could have gone on to say that the greatest rugby captain of recent years for any side, Martin Johnson, would also have been ruled out under your criteria.If we're going on the basis that a single incident can be used to rule someone out, then no-one with any level of experience would qualify. If I said Richie McCaw shouldn't be NZ captain because he gives away so many penalties, what would you say? You'd say yes, he gives away penaties but he gets away with a lot more infringements and he's a great all-round player so he's a great captain. You'd make your judgement based on the overall contribution of the player, not on one tiny aspect of it. I'm just saying you should do the same re Heaslip.Finally; I also said that I didn't think Heaslip would/should be Lions captain, just your reasoning was flawed.


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    #734
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    totallegend wrote: »
    I did. I pointed out that two of the other candidates, Warburton and O'Connell, had previously been red-carded. I pointed out that Heaslip's disciplinary record is otherwise immaculate, not something you can say about many back-rowers. I could have gone on to say that the greatest rugby captain of recent years for any side, Martin Johnson, would also have been ruled out under your criteria.If we're going on the basis that a single incident can be used to rule someone out, then no-one with any level of experience would qualify. If I said Richie McCaw shouldn't be NZ captain because he gives away so many penalties, what would you say? You'd say yes, he gives away penaties but he gets away with a lot more infringements and he's a great all-round player so he's a great captain. You'd make your judgement based on the overall contribution of the player, not on one tiny aspect of it. I'm just saying you should do the same re Heaslip.Finally; I also said that I didn't think Heaslip would/should be Lions captain, just your reasoning was flawed.

    Fair enough. Although, I reckon John Eales gives Martin Johnson a good run for greatest captain.


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    #735
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    The odds on Robshaw reflect the fact that he is versatile and can play across the backrow. Having him captain would mean a starting place isn't a 'closed shop' for any backrower in the squad. That's an important consideration IMO.


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    #736
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    The odds on Robshaw reflect the fact that he is versatile and can play across the backrow. Having him captain would mean a starting place isn't a 'closed shop' for any backrower in the squad. That's an important consideration IMO.

    There's also the argument that if there are few English players then an English captain would help bring the squad together.


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    #737
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    There's also the argument that if there are few English players then an English captain would help bring the squad together.

    I guess it depends how well Robshaw gets on with people outside the English team. If he's a toff from Eton or such, there could be issues, but he comes across as a decent enough fellow.


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    #738
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Hypothetically... if a leading rugby journalist in a respected Sunday paper picked a 35-man Lions squad and left out Heaslip, O'Connell, O'Brien and Bowe, how mental would the boards community go?

    Best avoid Stephen Jones in today's ST then...


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    #739
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    totallegend wrote: »
    Hypothetically... if a leading rugby journalist in a respected Sunday paper picked a 35-man Lions squad and left out Heaslip, O'Connell, O'Brien and Bowe, how mental would the boards community go?

    boards.co.uk would probably be reasonably quiet, I imagine.

    Death, taxes, Stephen Jones having no good to say of NZ or Ireland - these are life's certainties.


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    #740
    Fireball07
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    totallegend wrote: »
    Hypothetically... if a leading rugby journalist in a respected Sunday paper picked a 35-man Lions squad and left out Heaslip, O'Connell, O'Brien and Bowe, how mental would the boards community go?

    Best avoid Stephen Jones in today's ST then...


    I'd say we'd probably ignore it in general, while putting down said journalist for being an idiot who knows nothing about the sport. (Out of interest, what number 8s did he pick?)


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    #741
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Fireball07 wrote: »
    I'd say we'd probably ignore it in general, while putting down said journalist for being an idiot who knows nothing about the sport. (Out of interest, what number 8s did he pick?)

    Faletau and Denton. Hmmmm...


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    #742
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    It's Stephen Jones. He doesn't believe a word he writes.


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    #743
    LeftBase
    Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭LeftBase


    totallegend wrote: »
    Hypothetically... if a leading rugby journalist in a respected Sunday paper picked a 35-man Lions squad and left out Heaslip, O'Connell, O'Brien and Bowe, how mental would the boards community go?

    Best avoid Stephen Jones in today's ST then...

    No doubt there were may Welsh as I'm sure there will be on the tour. However the problem is that the Welsh team is good together however as individuals or in small units(as seen in the Rabo) they are pretty average - above average 80-90% of the time.

    If Leinster won the Heiniken and Ireland won a grand slam this year then I'd say the wider rugby community would go a bit nuts!

    Anyone want to hazard a starting 15 for the tests on form this minute?

    1. Healy
    2. Best
    3. Jones
    4. Gray
    5. Open to a few
    6. SOB
    7. Warburton
    8. Heaslip
    9. Phillips
    10. Sexton
    11. North
    12. Roberts
    13. BOD:D
    14. Bowe/Halfpenny
    15. Kearney


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    #744
    jamiedav2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    Healy
    Best
    Jones
    POC
    AWJ
    SOB/Lydiate
    Tipuric
    Heaslip
    Care/Youngs
    Sexton
    Ashton
    Davies
    BOD
    North
    Halfpenny/Kearney

    That'd be me at the moment.
    Personally don't think Bowe should be near the team atm, Visser, Cuthbert, North, Ashton etc would all be ahead for me.


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    #745
    cgpg5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,656 ✭✭✭cgpg5


    jamiedav2011 wrote: »
    Healy
    Best
    Jones
    POC
    AWJ
    SOB/Lydiate
    Tipuric
    Heaslip
    Care/Youngs
    Sexton
    Ashton
    Davies
    BOD
    North
    Halfpenny/Kearney

    That'd be me at the moment.
    Personally don't think Bowe should be near the team atm, Visser, Cuthbert, North, Ashton etc would all be ahead for me.

    No Lawes? Playing out of his skin for Northampton. If he keeps this form up and plays like this for England he's the first 2nd row in the teamsheet imo


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    #746
    leonard7
    Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭leonard7


    norths ahead of him hes a better player than visser just not as big and cuthberts getting better and better....ashton tho i wouldnt say is ahead of bowe


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    #747
    jamiedav2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    cgpg5 wrote: »
    No Lawes? Playing out of his skin for Northampton. If he keeps this form up and plays like this for England he's the first 2nd row in the teamsheet imo

    Yeah thought about him alright, he's a serious physical specimen, but will he play for England?


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    #748
    jamiedav2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    leonard7 wrote: »
    norths ahead of him hes a better player than visser just not as big and cuthberts getting better and better....ashton tho i wouldnt say is ahead of bowe

    Really? Ashton is in great form from what I've seen. May be a player we love to hate but he's some finisher, while I think Bowe gets away a bit with mixed performances in the Irish media. He scored tries in the last 6N, but his overall play wasn't great.

    One thing the Lions are top heavy with though is typical 14s (big strong tall wingers) over 11s imo. Christian Wade might be a bolter in that sense.


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    #749
    cgpg5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,656 ✭✭✭cgpg5


    jamiedav2011 wrote: »
    Yeah thought about him alright, he's a serious physical specimen, but will he play for England?

    Definitely. Was injured during 6n last year (awful times with injuries) and is injured for next week afaik but once he regains fitness and keeps up this form he'll definitely start with either parling or botha


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    #750
    cgpg5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,656 ✭✭✭cgpg5


    jamiedav2011 wrote: »
    Really? Ashton is in great form from what I've seen. May be a player we love to hate but he's some finisher, while I think Bowe gets away a bit with mixed performances in the Irish media. He scored tries in the last 6N, but his overall play wasn't great.

    One thing the Lions are top heavy with though is typical 14s (big strong tall wingers) over 11s imo. Christian Wade might be a bolter in that sense.

    Hope he starts in 6n. Have watched him a bit this season and he's really impressed me


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    #751
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jamiedav2011 wrote: »

    Really? Ashton is in great form from what I've seen. May be a player we love to hate but he's some finisher, while I think Bowe gets away a bit with mixed performances in the Irish media. He scored tries in the last 6N, but his overall play wasn't great.

    One thing the Lions are top heavy with though is typical 14s (big strong tall wingers) over 11s imo. Christian Wade might be a bolter in that sense.
    There's still Visser, Ashton and Earls who can play that role. I really like Wade but I'd be surprised if he travels.


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