British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Scioch

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree so because I don't really agree with any of that

I dont expect you to, everyone will have their opinion but I just dont think its an established fact that Earls is a better winger. And with him playing centre I cant see him being able to make the Lions.

PhatPiggins

Scioch wrote: »

I dont expect you to, everyone will have their opinion but I just dont think its an established fact that Earls is a better winger. And with him playing centre I cant see him being able to make the Lions.

Earls will go for his proven versatility (his major selling point is he's actually good at all 3) and he's been reasonably decent on the last tour before which is always (quietly) factored in.

Even as a 13 only I think he's in good shape. Alternatives:
Wales Davies good but really a 12 in 13's clothing.
Scotland: Stuart Hogg, potentially excellent, think he's a better 15 but would start in my team at 13.
England:No comment required.
Ireland: BOD, will be lucky to be fit enough

Scioch

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Earls will go for his proven versatility (his major selling point is he's actually good at all 3) and he's been reasonably decent on the last tour before which is always (quietly) factored in.

Even as a 13 only I think he's in good shape. Alternatives:
Wales Davies good but really a 12 in 13's clothing.
Scotland: Stuart Hogg, potentially excellent, think he's a better 15 but would start in my team at 13.
England:No comment required.
Ireland: BOD, will be lucky to be fit enough

He's kind of in no man's land, being playing 13 but not good enough to be considered, Davies, Tuilagi, BOD, Beck possibly others all ahead of him imo for a Lions spot. Possibly make it as a winger but hasnt been playing there.

I can see Hogg travelling before Earls.

irishbucsfan

Ha Beck ahead of Earls as a 13. Not even close.

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ha Beck ahead of Earls as a 13. Not even close.

Beck is going to be one of the best centres in NH rugby I feel. However that'll be at 12. He's not an outside centre that's for sure.

.ak

I'd be very surprised if either Trimble or Earls travelled with the Lions. There's just too many ahead of both of them. There's a good selection of high quality wingers in North, Visser, Bowe, Cuthbert even Ashton are all better choices based on strike rate and form.

Unfortunately Earls 'versatility' will be a double edged sword. Had he played solidly on the wing for the last year he might have set the world alight and got on the plane, however he hasn't, and has been juggled around and had a few 'solid' showings at 13. No where near Lions quality though. At 13 he'd be behind BOD, Davies, Tuilagi, Williams, Cave (just my opinion! :P), even Hogg who I don't rate as a 13 would be picked ahead of him on current form. And that's just the 13s, never mind inside centres who can cover 13.

The double edge however is his versatility might yet see him get on the plane as injury cover. Especially as the only two world class fullbacks we have will be 1/2penny and Kearney.

funtime93

.ak wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if either Trimble or Earls travelled with the Lions. There's just too many ahead of both of them. There's a good selection of high quality wingers in North, Visser, Bowe, Cuthbert even Ashton are all better choices based on strike rate and form.

Unfortunately Earls 'versatility' will be a double edged sword. Had he played solidly on the wing for the last year he might have set the world alight and got on the plane, however he hasn't, and has been juggled around and had a few 'solid' showings at 13. No where near Lions quality though. At 13 he'd be behind BOD, Davies, Tuilagi, Williams, Cave (just my opinion! :P), even Hogg who I don't rate as a 13 would be picked ahead of him on current form. And that's just the 13s, never mind inside centres who can cover 13.

The double edge however is his versatility might yet see him get on the plane as injury cover. Especially as the only two world class fullbacks we have will be 1/2penny and Kearney.

Would you give Zebo a shot?Surely he deserves a mention as much as Visser does

jamiedav2011

funtime93 wrote: »

Would you give Zebo a shot?Surely he deserves a mention as much as Visser does

For what reason?!

Scioch

Hogg would surely be more likely to travel though given his ability at FB if cover for 15 is light.

desertcircus

funtime93 wrote: »

Would you give Zebo a shot?Surely he deserves a mention as much as Visser does

Visser is way further along than Zebo. He's been a consistent high-scoring winger for Edinburgh and has topped the Pro12 try-scoring charts for three straight years. He's averaging a try per Test and scored twice against the world champions last weekend. Zebo is promising, but it's madness to suggest he's on a par with Visser.

.ak

funtime93 wrote: »

Would you give Zebo a shot?Surely he deserves a mention as much as Visser does

Visser scoring tries for fun against the ABs? Top league try scorer? How does Zebo deserve a mention as much as Visser does? Granted Visser is a bit of a one trick pony but at the end of the day if that trick is scoring bag loads of tries he'd be on my team any day of the week.

jm08

.ak wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if either Trimble or Earls travelled with the Lions. There's just too many ahead of both of them. There's a good selection of high quality wingers in North, Visser, Bowe, Cuthbert even Ashton are all better choices based on strike rate and form.

Unfortunately Earls 'versatility' will be a double edged sword. Had he played solidly on the wing for the last year he might have set the world alight and got on the plane, however he hasn't, and has been juggled around and had a few 'solid' showings at 13. No where near Lions quality though. At 13 he'd be behind BOD, Davies, Tuilagi, Williams, Cave (just my opinion! :P), even Hogg who I don't rate as a 13 would be picked ahead of him on current form. And that's just the 13s, never mind inside centres who can cover 13.

The double edge however is his versatility might yet see him get on the plane as injury cover. Especially as the only two world class fullbacks we have will be 1/2penny and Kearney.

Earls has a pretty decent record against Australia (never lost a game against them).

It would also help that he has toured in the past (known quantity with regard to temperment by the coaches) and if BOD and Kearney makes it, an established unit.

Can't think of a better bench option come to think of it - having covered all outside back positions at an international level.

Can't see Tualagi travelling - it would be pointless bringing any wingers if he goes.

totallegend

Scioch wrote: »

Hogg would surely be more likely to travel though given his ability at FB if cover for 15 is light.

I think Hogg will be going in his own right. The guy is a stand-out player in very poor teams so he could do some serious damage with 14 decent players around him.

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

Earls has a pretty decent record against Australia (never lost a game against them).

The only record the selectors will be interested will be his strike record. That's a silly stat, I can pick a load of mediocre players who've never lost a game against Australia.

It would also help that he has toured in the past (known quantity with regard to temperment by the coaches) and if BOD and Kearney makes it, an established unit.

Aye, that may help him, although I don't know about the regard of temperment by the coaches. Who on the lions coaching ticket has he played under? He came into the squad after Gatland right?

Can't think of a better bench option come to think of it - having covered all outside back positions at an international level.

Hogg, Halfpenny.

Can't see Tualagi travelling - it would be pointless bringing any wingers if he goes.

A big 13 with a decent strike rate? I'd be very surprised if he doesn't travel, even if I don't rate him myself.

Deano7788

.ak wrote: »

Aye, that may help him, although I don't know about the regard of temperment by the coaches. Who on the lions coaching ticket has he played under? He came into the squad after Gatland right?

He played under Gatland (and a few of the likely coaches) on the last Lions tour. I'm guessing that's what he's referring to.

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

Earls has a pretty decent record against Australia (never lost a game against them).

Three days ago you mocked a poster for mentioning a statistic that Ireland have never won a game against a top 8 side that Murray started and then you try to big up Earls for the Lions tour by stating he has never lost a game against Australia. Typical double standards. :rolleyes:

bilston

jm08 wrote: »

Can't see Tualagi travelling - it would be pointless bringing any wingers if he goes.

I can't see him not travelling, he'd be a useful option at 12, he could fulfil the Roberts role of 2009, if Roberts doesn't do it himself.

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

Three days ago you mocked a poster for mentioning a statistic that Ireland have never won a game against a top 8 side that Murray started and then you try to big up Earls for the Lions tour by stating he has never lost a game against Australia. Typical double standards. :rolleyes:

I wasn't mocking anything, only pointing out that 3 of his starts were against the no. 1 team in the world.

Earls has played against Australia 3 times and they are a top 4 team.

jm08

.ak wrote: »

The only record the selectors will be interested will be his strike record. That's a silly stat, I can pick a load of mediocre players who've never lost a game against Australia.

His strike rate from the wing is pretty good. Way better than Luke Fitzgerald's international strike record and he got selected for the Lions.

Aye, that may help him, although I don't know about the regard of temperment by the coaches. Who on the lions coaching ticket has he played under? He came into the squad after Gatland right?

All of them. Shaun Edwards has blogged about what a good defender he is.

Hogg, Halfpenny.

Only place I've ever seen Hogg play is at fullback and Halfpenny on the wing or fullback.

Earls has played 11, 12, 13 & 15 at international level.

A big 13 with a decent strike rate? I'd be very surprised if he doesn't travel, even if I don't rate him myself.

Lots of big, physical backs available, so is their need for another one? Gatland brought Shane Williams the last time and even though he was in poor form kept playing him until he actually did start scoring.

Deano7788

jm08 wrote: »

Lots of big, physical backs available, so is their need for another one? Gatland brought Shane Williams the last time and even though he was in poor form kept playing him until he actually did start scoring.

That was McGeechan. Why would the forwards coach have much of a say in what winger was selected? Williams was also the reigning World Player of the Year.

jm08

Deano7788 wrote: »

That was McGeechan. Why would the forwards coach have much of a say in what winger was selected? Williams was also the reigning World Player of the Year.

Gatland was Wales (& Williams coach) - McGeechan consulted with all the national coaches about selection.

I'm not criticising them bringing Williams - they brought him even though he wasn't a monster back (though they did give him an awful lot of chances to get into form).

Deano7788

jm08 wrote: »

Gatland was Wales (& Williams coach) - McGeechan consulted with all the national coaches about selection.

I'm not criticising them bringing Williams - they brought him even though he wasn't a monster back (though they did give him an awful lot of chances to get into form).

In fairness, there weren't that many monster backs in 2009. They only one really that was brought was Roberts. Since then, Gatland has shown that he greatly favours large backs.

And re Williams, I was referring to while he was actually on tour and his form plummeted. They kept on selecting him but I would put that down to Howley and McGeechan rather than Gatland

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

Only place I've ever seen Hogg play is at fullback and Halfpenny on the wing or fullback.

Earls has played 11, 12, 13 & 15 at international level.

Do you think Hogg could only cover at fullback?

Adding inside centre to Earls' rep sheet is a joke - it was an absolute failure, one I hope we or the Lion do no repeat.

As I said, at the moment I'd reckon Earls chances are 50/50.

Deano7788

Didn't Hogg tear Munster apart at 13 last season?

irishbucsfan

.ak wrote: »

Adding inside centre to Earls' rep sheet is a joke - it was an absolute failure, one I hope we or the Lion do no repeat.

Let's clear this up. It was not an absolute failure. It just wasn't particularly successful. He didn't make any mistakes as a 12 (he was outside when him and McFadden had that mishap). He made what was, I think, our only line break of the match as well.

Not saying he should be considered a 12 (even taking into account his other games there he's not a 12), just saying this notion that he was terrible that day or that it was an awful combination is OTT. It wasn't even the worst showing from a 12 on the tour (not Wallce's fault at all of course).

I think it's a partnership that could work. Even Earls and Cave (which I think could be excellent). But it would take an excellent backs coach (Wayne Smith-esque) to make it work, who knows if we'll ever have one of them

bamboozle

jm08 wrote: »

His strike rate from the wing is pretty good. Way better than Luke Fitzgerald's international strike record and he got selected for the Lions.



All of them. Shaun Edwards has blogged about what a good defender he is.



Only place I've ever seen Hogg play is at fullback and Halfpenny on the wing or fullback.

Earls has played 11, 12, 13 & 15 at international level.



Lots of big, physical backs available, so is their need for another one? Gatland brought Shane Williams the last time and even though he was in poor form kept playing him until he actually did start scoring.

oK, so your point is Earl's strike rate from wing is better than Fitz's and fitz got selected for the lions - do you realise that Earls and Fitz were on the same lions tour and the lions selectors saw fit to select Fitz on the test team?

Deano7788

bamboozle wrote: »

oK, so your point is Earl's strike rate from wing is better than Fitz's and fitz got selected for the lions - do you realise that Earls and Fitz were on the same lions tour and the lions selectors saw fit to select Fitz on the test team?

In fairness, Earls hadn't played as a wing at that time. He had played fullback and then 13 when Tipoki got injured.

Still think it's dicey whether he makes it or not, though.

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

I wasn't mocking anything, only pointing out that 3 of his starts were against the no. 1 team in the world.

Earls has played against Australia 3 times and they are a top 4 team.

jm08 wrote: »

Bring back Tomas O'Leary - our most successful starting SH against Top 8 countries.

You mocked him by stating that using that logic on past results against specific sides TOL would be classed as our best SH. The poster wasn't even trying to say that Murray shouldnt start, just that it was "an interesting fact". You on the other hand are clearly using Earl's record against Oz as a key reason for why he should travel. It's expected from your posts though.

Higher

I wish the stike rate = better winger nonsense would stop.

I suppose Ian Madigan is a better winger than Tommy Bowe on that basis?

PhatPiggins

.ak wrote: »

Visser scoring tries for fun against the ABs? Top league try scorer? How does Zebo deserve a mention as much as Visser does? Granted Visser is a bit of a one trick pony but at the end of the day if that trick is scoring bag loads of tries he'd be on my team any day of the week.

Visser is no different to Cuthbert or North both of whom have been out thought by the Australian wingers the last 4(soon to be 5) times they've played them. He has a great strike rate but awful in defence, has the turning circle of a double decker bus, has no kicking game and is a sucker for an inside out sidestep. If the two taff ogres are playing well I'd see Visser missing out.