British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Fishooks13

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

I completely disagree with you Fishooks, because from what I read, most are that petty. Though perhaps MF doesn't represent the real Munster fan base, but rather the 'ultra' loonies.

Well you're completely wrong. That's like saying most Leinster fans hate ROG because a handful of idiots dislike the guy.

Most Irish rugby fans are mature enough not to have some idiotic hatred for a person they don't know.

Anyway this has zero to do with the Lions

jamiedav2011

Fishooks13 wrote: »

Well you're completely wrong. That's like saying most Leinster fans hate ROG because a handful of idiots dislike the guy.

Most Irish rugby fans are mature enough not to have some idiotic hatred for a person they don't know.

Anyway this has zero to do with the Lions

In your opinion, not sure how you can be so factual.

As the booing portrayed, as the MF comments portray, as the Facebook group comments portray, as the ridiculous hatred for Sexton portrays, many irish rugby fans, and from a certain province in particular, are certainly not above that type of stuff.

By the way, it's nothing like the other situation you mentioned, because that wouldn't be an irrational hatred.

I agree, it has zero to do with the Lions.

phog

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

I completely disagree with you Fishooks, because from what I read, most are that petty. Though perhaps MF doesn't represent the real Munster fan base, but rather the 'ultra' loonies.

I'm with Fishooks here and I think you're completly wrong with your assertion that most of the posters on MFs hate Heaslip.

phog

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

In your opinion, not sure how you can be so factual.

as the MF comments portray, as the Facebook group comments portray, as the ridiculous hatred for Sexton portrays, many irish rugby fans, and from a certain province in particular, are certainly not above that type of stuff.

By the way, it's nothing like the other situation you mentioned, because that wouldn't be an irrational hatred.

I agree, it has zero to do with the Lions.

as I've said earlier have a read through the old Ireland and Munster threads and you'll see as many stupid comments from Leinsterfans, does that paint all Leinsterfans as hating a Munster player? Shaggy has been quoted as hating Munster, does that lessen him as a player or individual? He was one of my favourite non Munster players.

What The?

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

In your opinion, not sure how you can be so factual.

As the booing portrayed, as the MF comments portray, as the Facebook group comments portray, as the ridiculous hatred for Sexton portrays, many irish rugby fans, and from a certain province in particular, are certainly not above that type of stuff.

By the way, it's nothing like the other situation you mentioned, because that wouldn't be an irrational hatred.

I agree, it has zero to do with the Lions.

Not the booing AGAIN!!! I thought that was put to bed weeks ago? I think you need to leave it go. It was as pointless a discussion then as it is now…

Fishooks13

Have to laugh at that booing "incident". It wasn't even when Heaslip was taken off. It was the Fijian player coming back from the bin. And it was about three people sitting next to a mic. I was at the game, and there was zero atmosphere, never mind some sort of cauldron for the supposed Heaslip hate among most Munster fans.

Kiwi_knock

I would bring both Care and Youngs. I prefer Youngs to start, I think if he continues to mature and put in consistent performances he will be the England No. 9 which augurs well for him being Lions starting scrum half. I would then bring one of Murray or Phillips, I personally would bring Murray but I would be shocked if Phillips did not travel.

GerM

Fishooks13 wrote: »

He was arguably the form 14 for the AI's. Really showed his class in the South Africa game, first half in paticular. Injury is the only thing holding him back IMO. North hasn't performed anywhere near his WC form and doesn't deserve to be ahead of Bowe

Very arguably and wasn't in eye catching form up to the internationals. Cuthbert, Visser and Ashton were his competition in the autumn and all of them broke the line and scored tries against much better opposition than Bowe did also. North lines out on the left wing for Wales.

I would say Bowe is really up against it right now to make the squad. He has no further opportunity to stake a claim for a spot. Visser, Ashton, Cuthbert and others will all have the HEC and 6N to put their hands up. I'm don't think Bowe has the credit in the bank that others have had in the past to get on the plane when injured. I think he'll be given a couple of games and told he has to perform or he's out. For his sake, I hope he makes it back ahead of schedule for the HEC QF as that will be his big opportunity.

GerM

Nervous Nigel wrote: »

And with a fair wind, we could have as many as 7 to 9 (e.g. Kearney, Bowe, O'Driscoll, Sexton, Heaslip, O'Brien/Ferris, O'Connell, Best, Healy).

It can really go either way. A good number of the guys above are in the maybe camp. I'd say the likes of Zebo, Murray and Ryan are also in that group. Whatever side steps up and dominates in the 6N will get the bulk of the close calls for the touring squad. Right now, England could end up with a lot of guys on the plane, I reckon. The 6N is well set up for Ireland though with us hosting England. That will essentially be a play off for several spots, I would think.

Kiwi_knock

Bowe would not be a massive loss for the Lions, not even sure if he was a cert to tour. We have plenty of players to cover the wing position, and really do not think Bowe would be integral to the Lions' chances

Fishooks13

Beating England and Wales in the sixnations will go a long way towards ensuring a good healthy touring party for Ireland

rchendz92

It irritates me Warburton and North seem nailed on starters with most pundits. Warburton is incredibly overrated. Solid at turnovers, but not a strong carrier and definitely not a leader.

As for North...well, I'm friends with a Scarlets fan who assures me he is a skilled player with a beautiful step. But for Wales I've only ever seen him as a one trick pony crash ball and he never looked dangerous in the AI's. If they were Scottish/Irish/English they would need an exceptional 6N, but I reckon Gatland will start them no matter what. Wales have some exceptional players (Lydiate, Hairy Jones, Davies and Halfpenny come to mind) but these two get all the attention for a decent world cup over a year ago.

CatFromHue

I can't see Bowe making it with such good competition around for the wings spot.

He isn't expected back until the end of April (expected recovery of 4 months from the end of Dec http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/11041.php)

That means the games he would be available would be

19/20/21 Connacht (Rabo)
3/4/5 May Cardiff (Rabo)
Rabo and HEC SF and Final if Ulster make them.

Anscombe may not want to risk him in the knockout games as he would be lacking match fitness/sharpness so he may just have the two games that he gets to play or start in. That wouldn't be enough for me to pick him anyway.

Fishooks13

Think Bowe is being underrated here by many. Although I think the injury has put a serious dent in his chances.

We're not exactly looking as good at 11 and 14 as we were this time last year

Cuthbert and North's form has been very indifferent and while Visser is a brilliant try scorer, I'd have some reservations about other aspects of his game.

Earls could be a good call for the eleven shirt if he gets on the plane, and given his versatility he probably will. Ashton too. Luke Fitz could be a bolter!!

Also, no one really mentioning Mike Brown here. I really didn't rate him until recently but he's playing some stuff right now.

thomond2006

I think Hogg is the best shout as a utility back bolter atm. The Lions will have to pick a few Scots, only Gray is a certain tourist at the moment. Visser is a probable while Laidlaw has fallen off the radar. Rennie was very good last season but he had shoulder surgery earlier this season so maybe he's out of contention.

GerM

Fishooks13 wrote: »

Also, no one really mentioning Mike Brown here. I really didn't rate him until recently but he's playing some stuff right now.

He's a good player and covers the back three well as well as a kicking option but I think that anyone who is in and out of their national team will struggle to get into the touring party. With that in mind, Ashton, Earls, North, Cuthbert and Visser are all well placed. Brown will have to see off Foden, Sharples and Monye before he can start looking at the Lions.

I don't think people underrate Bowe; most of us think that an on form Bowe is one of the best wingers in the game. He's a quality player and is someone capable of lighting up a game and making a big impact around the pitch when on form. However, he has not shown the form he once did in some time. The Argentina game stands out as his best performance and that still isn't near the level that he was once at. He linked well with Zebo initially against S.A. but faded in the game.

I really don't think there was too much there for Gatland to think, this guy needs to get fit and we need to get him on the plane.

Kiwi_knock

It will really come down to which country does the best in the 6 nations. If England do the best but only have the 3rd best representation on the tour it will look pretty bad. I imagine the 6 nations will sort out a lot of the 50-50 calls. Can see a lot of English players getting the marginal calls and making up the squad.

Mike Brown is a good call as a utility player, so is Stuart Hogg. Would be shocked if Earls tours. Not a stand out in any position, and if he continues to be played in the centre I doubt he will be considered an option on the wing.

Nervous Nigel

Fishooks13 wrote: »

Earls could be a good call for the eleven shirt

That is an outrageous statement.

Higher

Fishooks13 wrote: »

Earls could be a good call for the eleven shirt .

CIARAN_BOYLE

Fishooks13 wrote: »

Earls could be a good call for the eleven shirt if he gets on the plane, and given his versatility he probably will.

I could see Earls wearing the 23 shirt for most of the Lions test matches. I don't think Earls is playing at 11 enough to play there for the Lions. I don't think he has worn 11 since the third NZ game.

If he starts at 11 for Ireland in the six nations then maybe but I don't think he will. He just isn't playing that position.

Nervous Nigel

I can see it now...Earls at 11, Hook and McGurk in the row, Pope at 8, O'Shea at fullback and Jackie Kyle pulling the strings at 10.

All equally likely to happen.

FFS...Earls has zero chance of starting in Brisbane. He's decent when running in a straight line but he just doesn't have the rugby intelligence or nous to be a world class player. There is no subtlety at all to his game. I accept that he's a talisman of sorts for people from the wrong side of the tracks in Limerick, but the fact of the matter is that he's just not good enough for the Lions (I don't even think that he's good enough for Ireland). And before people accuse me of Leinster bias or being anti Munster, I'm not an Ulster fan but I'd freely admit that Andrew Trimble is a far better and more gifted rugby player than Keith Earls.

If I wanted someone to run to the shops for a litre of milk, I'd happily send Keith Earls. But if I wanted somebody to start a Test for the Lions, I think that he's miles down the list.

Kiwi_knock

I think Halfpenny or Tuilagi will wear the 23 jersey if neither of them start. At the moment Halfpenny is the starting full back and it will take a series of big performances from Kearney to get ahead of him. If he does get ahead of him, I can see Halfpenny dropping to the bench, as he can cover the wings as well. I doubt Tuilagi will start, but he would offer something different off the bench.

Nervous Nigel

Kearney's the reigning European Player of the Year. He's the man in possession of the Lions No 15 jersey. He delivered what some describe as the finest performance ever by a Lions fullback in Pretoria in '09. In my view, he just needs to get fit and show a modicum of form in order to be a nailed on cert to start in Brisbane. I'd genuinely be shocked if Gatland doesn't already have him down as one of the first names on his provisional Test teamsheet.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

I think Halfpenny or Tuilagi will wear the 23 jersey if neither of them start. At the moment Halfpenny is the starting full back and it will take a series of big performances from Kearney to get ahead of him. If he does get ahead of him, I can see Halfpenny dropping to the bench, as he can cover the wings as well. I doubt Tuilagi will start, but he would offer something different off the bench.

Halfpenny could well wear 23 if he doesn't start. He does as you say cover the wings as well.

Tuilagi doesn't imo cover enough positions to justify a bench spot. He either starts or is left out imo.

Nervous Nigel wrote: »

Kearney's the reigning European Player of the Year. He's the man in possession of the Lions No 15 jersey. He delivered what some describe as the finest performance ever by a Lions fullback in Pretoria in '09. In my view, he just needs to get fit and show a modicum of form in order to be a nailed on cert to start in Brisbane. I'd genuinely be shocked if Gatland doesn't already have him down as one of the first names on his provisional Test teamsheet.

In fairness Halfpenny is a quality player. I'd start Kearney but Halfpenny could start depending on the gameplan.

Deano7788

Nervous Nigel wrote: »

I can see it now...Earls at 11, Hook and McGurk in the row, Pope at 8, O'Shea at fullback and Jackie Kyle pulling the strings at 10.

All equally likely to happen.

FFS...Earls has zero chance of starting in Brisbane. He's decent when running in a straight line but he just doesn't have the rugby intelligence or nous to be a world class player. There is no subtlety at all to his game. I accept that he's a talisman of sorts for people from the wrong side of the tracks in Limerick, but the fact of the matter is that he's just not good enough for the Lions (I don't even think that he's good enough for Ireland). And before people accuse me of Leinster bias or being anti Munster, I'm not an Ulster fan but I'd freely admit that Andrew Trimble is a far better and more gifted rugby player than Keith Earls.

If I wanted someone to run to the shops for a litre of milk, I'd happily send Keith Earls. But if I wanted somebody to start a Test for the Lions, I think that he's miles down the list.

This is completely over the top.

Higher

Adam Byrne! Covers centre, wing and full back.

semi joking

thomond2006

Kearney is by no means a guaranteed starter, fullback is one position where the Lions will have great depth.

Deano7788

Nervous Nigel wrote: »

Kearney's the reigning European Player of the Year. He's the man in possession of the Lions No 15 jersey. He delivered what some describe as the finest performance ever by a Lions fullback in Pretoria in '09. In my view, he just needs to get fit and show a modicum of form in order to be a nailed on cert to start in Brisbane. I'd genuinely be shocked if Gatland doesn't already have him down as one of the first names on his provisional Test teamsheet.

Past accomplishments mean little though. A year before the last tour Ryan Jones was favourite for the captaincy, by the time the tour came around his form had fallen off a cliff and he wasn't even selected.

Kearney has barely played this season and we don't know what form he'll be in when he comes back. Halfpenny has been Wales best player this year by a distance. It's not unreasonable to think he has a good chance of being selected. Imo there's not that much between them when they're both at their best.

Also, I don't think you can say someone is the guy in possession of a Lions jersey, there's just too long in between tours. It shouldn't count for much.

Edit: Also, Foden, Brown, Goode and Hogg are all very good players so they can't be written off either.

Deano7788

Higher wrote: »

Adam Byrne! Covers centre, wing and full back.

semi joking

For a second I thought that was .ak posting :pac:.

Nervous Nigel

Deano7788 wrote: »

This is completely over the top.

Fair enough, but I disagree.

When I watch Earls, he reminds me of a sprinter that's just pitched up on the day to play his first game of rugby. Great running in a straight line with ball in hand but pretty much zero understanding of the subtleties of the game.

He seems like a decent and honest lad. I just don't rate him...at all.