British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

jm08

Fishooks13 wrote: »

Sexton is a very good tactical kicker.

Yes, he is getting very good.

Thing is, are you going to have Sexton starting all games (8 or 10).

There is definately space for someone like Wilko or O'Gara for the tour.

Fishooks13

jm08 wrote: »

Yes, he is getting very good.

Thing is, are you going to have Sexton starting all games (8 or 10).

There is definately space for someone like Wilko or O'Gara for the tour.

He's been very good for 3 years now.

No there's not.

Last thing we need is someone sitting too far back from the gainline, wasting our brilliant backs

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Surely McGahan knows everything there is to know about ROG. He certainly wasn't very succesful against Sexton in his days up here.

Put O'Gara with Leinster during the same time and he probably would have been as successful (and put Contempomi* with the Munster pack of their HCup wins and they would have been as successful).

The thing about precision tactical kicking is that it does stretch a defence as they have to be prepared for it. That can take the sting out of the wing's attack.

*I'm not saying Sexton because his kicking from the tee wasn't great back then.

snow mad

i think it would be great if he was taken on tour for the bench in the midweek games

then he wont be on the summer tour and possible all 3 of the better 10's in the country will get a chance to overtake him on the summer tour;)

jm08

Fishooks13 wrote: »

He's been very good for 3 years now.

No there's not.

Last thing we need is someone sitting too far back from the gainline, wasting our brilliant backs

I disagree its 3 years. Since last 6Ns he has been excellent.

Fishooks13

Lions touring places have to be earned on merit. O Gara hasn't shown anything in the last year to suggest he even deserves to be considered to tour.

His kicking out of hand is good on occasion. But Sexton, Laidlaw, Flood all have feet too. He's a complete liability in defense, and offers nothing in attack.

ssaye

Fishooks13 wrote: »

Lions touring places have to be earned on merit. O Gara hasn't shown anything in the last year to suggest he even deserves to be considered to tour.

His kicking out of hand is good on occasion. But Sexton, Laidlaw, Flood all have feet too. He's a complete liability in defense, and offers nothing in attack.

Maybe Gatland will troll all of Ireland, pick a few Irish to tour and just play England/Wales starters for the Test Games.

irishbucsfan

ssaye wrote: »

Maybe Gatland will troll all of Ireland, pick a few Irish to tour and just play England/Wales starters for the Test Games.

Or maybe he'll troll us by picking ROG

CIARAN_BOYLE

Maybe if Rog gets to start a Lions test he will do all of Ireland a favour and retire

Higher

jm08 wrote: »

I don't think its as mad as some of you are trying to make out. For instance, in the win over Australia in the world cup, I think O'Gara's presence in the end kept the Australians honest in that their wings couldn't come too far forward because of the chances that he would exploit the space they would leave.

As well as that there are more than 3 test matches.

Theres a video of O'Gara's entire contribution in the Oz game, perhaps someone could post it up to remind you. Kicking out on the full repeatedly and kicking straight into Oz players hands wasn't keeping them honest.

O'Gara couldn't even keep Cardiff honest last week for god sake.

jm08

Fishooks13 wrote: »

Lions touring places have to be earned on merit. O Gara hasn't shown anything in the last year to suggest he even deserves to be considered to tour.

His kicking out of hand is good on occasion. But Sexton, Laidlaw, Flood all have feet too. He's a complete liability in defense, and offers nothing in attack.

None of them have toured with the Lions before - and being a dirt tracker can be hard going.

There seems to be a shortage of previous tourists this year. Thats why I think players like BOD, Wilko, POC (even DOC) and a few others who haven't done anything to earn a place on merit might tour.

CatFromHue

Fishooks13 wrote: »

Lions touring places have to be earned on merit. O Gara hasn't shown anything in the last year to suggest he even deserves to be considered to tour.

His kicking out of hand is good on occasion. But Sexton, Laidlaw, Flood all have feet too. He's a complete liability in defense, and offers nothing in attack.

They do and they don't (places on merit) when you look through the list of players who have gone on Lions tours there will be a fair few that were there due to there being no one else available. John Hayes and Tim Payne on the 09 tour are examples, granted they were injury call ups but they were on the tour none the less.

Gatland will more than likely bring 3 outhalves to Oz. Sexton is one and the rest of the spots are very much up for grabs.

I'm not a fan of Laidlaw as every criticism of ROG is equally valid for him I think. More than likely the out half ticket will be Sexton, Flood, and James Hook but if any of these can't make it I'd definitely prefer ROG over Laidlaw.

CIARAN_BOYLE

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Maybe if Rog gets to start a Lions test he will do all of Ireland a favour and retire

ugh, it's horrible that it's come to the stage where I kind of agree with this.

ROG deserves more respect from us, but equally I think he might be disrespecting his own legacy and triumphs by playing on.

In his case though, it's his livelihood, he makes money from being available, he's not going to suddenly make himself unavailable for selection (and his central contract says he doesn't even get to choose!).

Hate to see players drift to obscurity before finishing. Hayes was battered around the park for an awfully long time before we could finally let the man have a bit of peace! Is ROG going down the same route?

Higher

jm08 wrote: »

Put O'Gara with Leinster during the same time and he probably would have been as successful (and put Contempomi* with the Munster pack of their HCup wins and they would have been as successful).

The thing about precision tactical kicking is that it does stretch a defence as they have to be prepared for it. That can take the sting out of the wing's attack.

*I'm not saying Sexton because his kicking from the tee wasn't great back then.

Complete nonsense. Sexton is pivotal in the backline play. O'Gara would utterly stagnate the Leinster backline. I think you underestimate just how active Sexton is for Leinster. Hes a stalmart in defense (ROG would not be), he runs at the opposition regularly and makes serious yards (ROG has no ability to do that), he runs beautiful lines (ROG never runs a line) and varies the attack linking up with forwards and backs regularly (ROG meanwhile just throws the ball out to Downey with an occasional skip pass)

jm08

Higher wrote: »

Theres a video of O'Gara's entire contribution in the Oz game, perhaps someone could post it up to remind you. Kicking out on the full repeatedly and kicking straight into Oz players hands wasn't keeping them honest.

O'Gara couldn't even keep Glasgow honest last week for god sake.

Last time Munster played Glasgow (1 Dec) with O'Gara at 10, Munster won 31-3.

thomond2006

O'Gara won't tour. That's all folks.

jm08

Higher wrote: »

Complete nonsense. Sexton is pivotal in the backline play. O'Gara would utterly stagnate the Leinster backline. I think you underestimate just how active Sexton is for Leinster. Hes a stalmart in defense (ROG would not be), he runs at the opposition regularly and makes serious yards (ROG has no ability to do that), he runs beautiful lines (ROG never runs a line) and varies the attack linking up with forwards and backs regularly (ROG meanwhile just throws the ball out to Downey with an occasional skip pass)

You seem to have forgotten that the Leinster backline with O'Gara at 10 for Ireland scored a lot of tries over the years.

Higher

The three outhalfs will clearly be Sexton, and whoever starts for England and Wales.

Right now O'Gara wouldn't even be in the top 3 outhalfs playing in Ireland let alone in GB! Jackson and Madigan are miles better than him currently.

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

Hate to see players drift to obscurity before finishing. Hayes was battered around the park for an awfully long time before we could finally let the man have a bit of peace! Is ROG going down the same route?

Hayes seems to be still held in very high regard by most people even though there were many claims that he was 'ruining his legacy'. I'd say he is quite happy to be a couple of 100ks better off than if he had worried about his 'legacy' and just retired.

Higher

jm08 wrote: »

Last time Munster played Glasgow (1 Dec) with O'Gara at 10, Munster won 31-3.

Sorry mean't Cardiff blues.

Higher

jm08 wrote: »

You seem to have forgotten that the Leinster backline with O'Gara at 10 for Ireland scored a lot of tries over the years.

O.K give me an example in the last 12 months (so its relevant) of a game where Ireland scored lots of tries with ROG starting at 10 against a decent team.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

Hayes seems to be still held in very high regard by most people even though there were many claims that he was 'ruining his legacy'. I'd say he is quite happy to be a couple of 100ks better off than if he had worried about his 'legacy' and just retired.

you are the ultimate contrarian. I have no idea what type of world you live in.

Posters on here were genuinely concerned for his health during some of the games he was 'trotted' out to play when Buckley and Ross were both younger, fitter and available.

It was lucky that he didn't get hurt. ROG may be just as lucky, but if he's not, does that make the decision to play either of them worse than the other? (hint: No. it's the same decision)

CIARAN_BOYLE

Higher wrote: »

O.K give me an example in the last 12 months (so its relevant) of a game where Ireland scored lots of tries with ROG starting at 10 against a decent team.

O'Gara hasn't started at 10 for Ireland in the last 12 months

jm08

Higher wrote: »

O.K give me an example in the last 12 months (so its relevant) of a game where Ireland scored lots of tries with ROG starting at 10 against a decent team.

O'Gara hasn't started an international match in the last 12 months.

He has played 95 minutes of international rugby, 13 minutes of that for the AIs.

jamiedav2011

jm08 wrote: »

I don't think its as mad as some of you are trying to make out. For instance, in the win over Australia in the world cup, I think O'Gara's presence in the end kept the Australians honest in that their wings couldn't come too far forward because of the chances that he would exploit the space they would leave.

As well as that there are more than 3 test matches.

Yep the mere presence of the great ROG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciQoPK7pK0c

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

you are the ultimate contrarian. I have no idea what type of world you live in.

Posters on here were genuinely concerned for his health during some of the games he was 'trotted' out to play when Buckley and Ross were both younger, fitter and available.

It was lucky that he didn't get hurt. ROG may be just as lucky, but if he's not, does that make the decision to play either of them worse than the other? (hint: No. it's the same decision)

Really? If he was a 21 year old you might have reason to worry. Not Hayes with his experience.

Anyway, the assessment was wrong about his health bearing in mind one of his last games for Munster against Leinster (PRO 12 final) finished with a Penalty Try for Munster with Hayes having played the full 80 mins.

jamiedav2011

jm08 wrote: »

Really? If he was a 21 year old you might have reason to worry. Not Hayes with his experience.

Anyway, the assessment was wrong about his health bearing in mind his one of his last games for Munster against Leinster (PRO 12 final) finished with a Penalty Try for Munster with Hayes having played the full 80 mins.

Yup, there were no other factors to take into account in that scrum either were there?

JM08 are you by any chance Conor George and in disguise?!

Fishooks13

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Yep the mere presence of the great ROG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciQoPK7pK0c

I really hate that video. That was probably the last time I was happy to see ROG come on for Ireland. The few kicks he made from the tee were very important and Sexton wasn't having a great day with the boot.

jamiedav2011

Fishooks13 wrote: »

I really hate that video. That was probably the last time I was happy to see ROG come on for Ireland. The few kicks he made from the tee were very important and Sexton wasn't having a great day with the boot.

I agree, but it shows very illustratively how he didn't actually play well that day, when it's a game that's constantly trotted out as an example of why he started against Wales.

totallegend

Jesus lads, can we all let it go? ROG has about as much chance of going on the tour as any of us do. Let's move on with our lives.