British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

jm08

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Yup, there were no other factors to take into account in that scrum either were there?

You mean that Healy / Wright were on for about 20 mins against 38 year old John Hayes who had played the full 80 mins?

jm08

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

I agree, but it shows very illustratively how he didn't actually play well that day, when it's a game that's constantly trotted out as an example of why he started against Wales.

The reason why he started against Wales was because Sexton's kicking was so poor. Wales would have had a field day against Ireland.

Worth bearing in mind that Ireland with Sexton starting last 6Ns also lost at home to Wales. (O'Gara had no act or part in the loss).

Teferi

You are Conor George, aren't you?

Fishooks13

Yay, another Sexton vs ROG debate.

Otacon

jm08 wrote: »

Wales would have had a field day against Ireland

CORRECTION: Wales HAD a field day against Ireland, and it had a lot to do with Sexton not starting.

Anyway, ROG will not tour with the Lions.

jm08

Otacon wrote: »

CORRECTION: Wales HAD a field day against Ireland, and it had a lot to do with Sexton not starting.

Anyway, ROG will not tour with the Lions.

So what went wrong in Round 2 in the Aviva last 6ns? Sexton did start and O'Gara was an unused sub.

Edit: and Sexton had rediscovered his kicking from the tee.

Clegg

There really isn't a debate over Sexton/ROG anymore. Sexton is one of the the best 10's in the northern hemisphere. ROG isn't even the best 10 for his province.

He was a great player once but over the last three years we've seen a very noticeable drop in his performances. ROG will probably tour with the Irish team this summer. I actually think that will be a good role for him. As a mentor to all the younger lads on tour.

CIARAN_BOYLE

jm08 wrote: »

So what went wrong in Round 2 in the Aviva last 6ns? Sexton did start and O'Gara was an unused sub.

Actually he wasn't

Ireland led when O'Gara came on for Sexton

jm08 wrote: »

Edit: and Sexton had rediscovered his kicking from the tee.

To be honest he wasn't good from the tee (4/7) and I wanted McFadden (who had a better kicking record so far that season) to take the kicking duties during the match

totallegend

Clegg wrote: »

There really isn't a debate over Sexton/ROG anymore. Sexton is one of the the best 10's in the northern hemisphere. ROG isn't even the best 10 for his province.

He was a great player once but over the last three years we've seen a very noticeable drop in his performances. ROG will probably tour with the Irish team this summer. I actually think that will be a good role for him. As a mentor to all the younger lads on tour.

I think that would be a terrible idea. History has shown that ROG doesn't like being on the bench and doesn't react well to it. If he ends up starting, the whole tour will be a wasted effort in terms of player development.

jm08

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Actually he wasn't

My bad - he got all of 3 minutes.

Ireland led when O'Gara came on for Sexton

I don't think O'Gara touched the ball though. If he was Leo Cullen there would be cries about how insulting it was to bring him on for 3 minutes.

To be honest he wasn't good from the tee (4/7) and I wanted McFadden (who had a better kicking record so far that season) to take the kicking duties during the match

At least one of those kicks was a Hail Mary attempt from Ireland half. He percentage kicking in the world cup was something like 40% - at least he was up to the 60s by the 6Ns.

Higher

jm08 wrote: »

O'Gara hasn't started an international match in the last 12 months.

He has played 95 minutes of international rugby, 13 minutes of that for the AIs.

So you're point is based on what game?

How far are we going back?

Higher

jm08 wrote: »

The reason why he started against Wales was because Sexton's kicking was so poor. Wales would have had a field day against Ireland.

Worth bearing in mind that Ireland with Sexton starting last 6Ns also lost at home to Wales. (O'Gara had no act or part in the loss).

LOL Ireland were winning before O'Gara came on at 10!!!! (he was used)

Fishooks13

Higher wrote: »

[/B]LOL Ireland were winning before O'Gara came on at 10!!!! (he was used)

He was only on for a few minutes and he had nothing to do with us losing.

That game was as 50/50 as they come. The game in the WC was a Welsh destruction of Ireland, and picking ROG at 10 was a large part of why we weren't competitive

Higher

Fishooks13 wrote: »

He was only on for a few minutes and he had nothing to do with us losing.

That game was as 50/50 as they come. The game in the WC was a Welsh destruction of Ireland, and picking ROG at 10 was a large part of why we weren't competitive

Yeah but the point is neither did Sexton. We were winning with him at 10 so I've no idea why jm08 is trying to blame Sexton for the defeat.

However ROG was utterly abysmal against Wales in the QF. One of the worst 10 performances I've ever seen for Ireland. And thats not dramatics. Rewatch the game if you dont believe. A lot of players weren't great that day but O'Gara was truly awful.

jm08

totallegend wrote: »

I think that would be a terrible idea. History has shown that ROG doesn't like being on the bench and doesn't react well to it. If he ends up starting, the whole tour will be a wasted effort in terms of player development.

I must have missed the dramatics then - an average of less than 10 minutes per game in the last 12 months (10 games for Ireland - and most of that time was against England (30 minutes) when Ireland were getting hammered in the scrum).

ROG won't be touring this summer with Ireland.

Higher

jm08 wrote: »

I must have missed the dramatics then - an average of less t
han 10 minutes per game in the last 12 months (10 games for Ireland - and most of that time was against England (30 minutes) when Ireland were getting hammered in the scrum).

ROG won't be touring this summer with Ireland.

Really, did you not see his interview after the Oz game and articles in the papers after?

ROG can consider himself a VERY lucky boy to even have been involved with Ireland for the last 24 months to be honest.

Fishooks13

Higher wrote: »

Yeah but the point is neither did Sexton. We were winning with him at 10 so I've no idea why jm08 is trying to blame Sexton for the defeat.

However ROG was utterly abysmal against Wales in the QF. One of the worst 10 performances I've ever seen for Ireland. And thats not dramatics. Rewatch the game if you dont believe. A lot of players weren't great that day but O'Gara was truly awful.

He was bad, but you mustn't be watching Ireland for too long if you think it was one of the worst performances by an Irish ten.

Even if O'Gara had played well it wouldn't have mattered because of the way Wales were set up in defense. He shouldn't have started.

Now I don't think we would have won with Sexton playing either. But we would have been more competitive I think.

Higher

Fishooks13 wrote: »

He was bad, but you mustn't be watching Ireland for too long if you think it was one of the worst performances by an Irish ten.

Fishooks, would really appreciate if you would stop addressing me with comments like this implying im less knowledgeable than you. It adds nothing and its unneccessary in my opinion. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I haven't been watching rugby long

Even if O'Gara had played well it wouldn't have mattered because of the way Wales were set up in defense. He shouldn't have started.

They were able to set up that way BECAUSE O'Gara was starting imo.

Now I don't think we would have won with Sexton playing either. But we would have been more competitive I think.

I reckon we could have won.

jm08

Higher wrote: »

Yeah but the point is neither did Sexton. We were winning with him at 10 so I've no idea why jm08 is trying to blame Sexton for the defeat.

However ROG was utterly abysmal against Wales in the QF. One of the worst 10 performances I've ever seen for Ireland. And thats not dramatics. Rewatch the game if you dont believe. A lot of players weren't great that day but O'Gara was truly awful.

eh, I'm not blaming Sexton for the defeat. I'm just wondering why Ireland with Sexton starting at outhalf didn't hammer Wales at home in the Aviva?

However, it should also be noted that Sexton got 25 minutes at the world cup with Reddan beside him and Ireland didn't even win as much as a penalty.

Fishooks13

Higher wrote: »

Fishooks, would really appreciate if you would stop addressing me with comments like this implying im less knowledgeable than you. It adds nothing and its unneccessary in my opinion. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I haven't been watching rugby long

Not what I was getting at higher, but I can see how it reads that way.

I simply meant to imply that there was some seriously bad performances put in by other Irish tens down trough the years. 90's especially. And I don't think ROG was as awful that day as you're making out IMO. Bad alright but in the grand scheme of things there's been much worse performances (even by ROG himself for Ireland).

They were able to set up that way BECAUSE O'Gara was starting imo.

They would have blitzed us in defense with Sexton starting too. They completely nullified our big ball carriers with what was one of the best defensive displays I've ever seen in test rugby. Wales were sublime that day and I don't think we would have won with Sexton at ten because we had no go forward ball.

Now none of this overlooks the fact that I think Sexton should have started. But Wales were phenomenal that day

Higher

jm08 wrote: »

eh, I'm not blaming Sexton for the defeat. I'm just wondering why Ireland with Sexton starting at outhalf didn't hammer Wales at home in the Aviva?

However, it should also be noted that Sexton got 25 minutes at the world cup with Reddan beside him and Ireland didn't even win as much as a penalty.

Sexton starting with Reddan beat OZ. Greatest Irish victory ever

Is Sexton responsible for winning penalties now??

Sexton had Ireland winning against Wales before ROG was put 10. Now I'm not saying ROG was at fault but with Sexton at 10 WE WERE winning. Maybe if Sexton had remained and ROG didn't kick posession away we would have held on.

jm08, heres an exercise. When was the last time Ireland beat a top 8 country with O'Gara starting at outhalf. The team and the year please?

jm08

Higher wrote: »

Really, did you not see his interview after the Oz game and articles in the papers after?

That was not in the last 12 months. The period we are talking about is since the last 6 Nations where O'Gara sat patiently on the bench for the last 10 games for Ireland getting very little gametime and as a consquence, Munster have suffered from that as he was decidedly undercooked after the 6Ns last year - but what can you expect with less than 80 mins of rugby for 6/7 weeks.

One of the main reasons that neither Ulster or Leinster should want any of their young 10s involved in the 6 nations because all they are going to do is sit on the bench.

Fishooks13

Fishooks13 wrote: »

They would have blitzed us in defense with Sexton starting too. They completely nullified our big ball carriers with what was one of the best defensive displays I've ever seen in test rugby. Wales were sublime that day and I don't think we would have won with Sexton at ten because we had no go forward ball.

Now none of this overlooks the fact that I think Sexton should have started. But Wales were phenomenal that day

Sexton has played against blitz defences plenty of times. He's a strong ball carrier and can make ground if he's under pressure.

His running threat would have meant that the wingers could not have taken 15 steps back and cover the corner flags, whereas they had (and have done for 3 years!) free reign to do so with O'Gara running the show as they know that they can force him into that kick far before he exposes their fragility out wide.

I might try dig out my post from the pre match nonsense in which I said this, which was then expanded upon by 3/4 posters. It was evident to all and sundry what Wales would be able to do, and we walked into their trap so easily.

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

I'm just wondering why Ireland with Sexton starting at outhalf didn't hammer Wales at home in the Aviva?

Indeed, I've also been wondering why Italy with Castrogiovanni starting at tighthead didn't hammer England at home in the Stadio Olimpico?

Sweet jesus jm

jm08

Higher wrote: »

Sexton starting with Reddan beat OZ. Greatest Irish victory ever

Is Sexton responsible for winning penalties now??

Sexton had Ireland winning against Wales before ROG was put 10. Now I'm not saying ROG was at fault but with Sexton at 10 WE WERE winning. Maybe if Sexton had remained and ROG didn't kick posession away we would have held on.

jm08, heres an exercise. When was the last time Ireland beat a top 8 country with O'Gara starting at outhalf. The team and the year please?

2009 I'd say Higher which is about the last time that O'Gara was starting regularly for Ireland. O'Gara has only been starting against the no-hopers like NZ since then when Sexton has been injured or in tricky places like Paris.

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

Sexton has played against blitz defences plenty of times. He's a strong ball carrier and can make ground if he's under pressure.

Leinster with Sexton at outhalf, have not fared well against the blitz defence of the Ospreys.

GerM

jm08 wrote: »

Leinster with Sexton at outhalf, have not fared well against the blitz defence of the Ospreys.

That's probably because Leinster don't have enough big ball carriers to beat the blitz defence.

Teferi

For the love of god please stop quoting. I use the filter for a reason.

Higher

jm08 wrote: »

2009 I'd say Higher which is about the last time that O'Gara was starting regularly for Ireland. O'Gara has only been starting against the no-hopers like NZ since then when Sexton has been injured or in tricky places like Paris.

So we're going back 3 years???

thomond2006

Apparently Lydiate is making an earlier than expected return from injury, so it looks like he'll be in contention for a spot.

The lack of news on Ferris is worrying...

Jesus lads, can we all let it go? ROG has about as much chance of going on the tour as any of us do. Let's move on with our lives.

What totallegend says.