British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

danthefan

I'd be shocked if the likes of Philips doesn't have a Lions clause in his contract.

CatFromHue

thomond2006 wrote: »

Bayonne: Mike Phillips
Clermont: Lee Byrne
Perpignan: Luke Charteris, James Hook
Toulon: Andrew Sheridan, Gethin Jenkins, Steffon Armitage

I couldn't see Byrne or Charteris involved and I'm not so sure if Sheridan or Jenkins would be either.

Phillips is prob the only real contender from those guys for the tour.

thomond2006

Perhaps not Sheridan since Corsbisiero and Marler are likely to fight for the England LH jersey, but Jenkins is still a certain starter for Wales at LH. He still is a good scrummager and like Healy has a big workrate. Healy is a superior carrier though.

Charteris was excellent for Wales at RWC, but then got injured so fell out of contention. Ian Evans stepped up in the meantime so Charteris will find it hard to get back in but he's guaranteed lineout ball with his height and is good in the loose.

A Question of Class

CatFromHue wrote: »

I couldn't see Byrne or Charteris involved and I'm not so sure if Sheridan or Jenkins would be either.

Phillips is prob the only real contender from those guys for the tour.

Hes certainly not the only contender. Jenkins will tour barring injury or total loss of from. Charteris and Hook are right in the mix and will travel if they have a good 6N. Charteris offers guaranteed lineout posession while Hook can cover 4 positions from the bench.

irishbucsfan

Steffon Armitage would start if I was picking the team. Based on everyone's performances last season that is.

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Steffon Armitage would start if I was picking the team. Based on everyone's performances last season that is.

Surely has to play for England before he starts for the Lions, especially in such a competitive backrow. International rugby is another level, and although I think he'd make it, you wouldn't want to leave out the likes of Warburton or SOB for someone who wasn't proven.

stephen_n

touts wrote: »

Has the "No Irish need apply" sign gone up outside the Lions office yet?

As a matter of interest who from Ireland would you think should get to manage the lions?

Teferi

stephen_n wrote: »

As a matter of interest who from Ireland would you think should get to manage the lions?

I think he is talking more about Irish players than anything else.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Teferi wrote: »

I think he is talking more about Irish players than anything else.

Gatland has said that POC or BOD could be captain

thomond2006

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Gatland has said that POC or BOD could be captain

tbf you could easily say that's PR speak, he can't exactly say someone can't be captain.

Teferi

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Gatland has said that POC or BOD could be captain

I was only clarifying what the OP meant. It was just an offhand joke about Gatlands apparent dislike of the Irish.

As an aside, I don't think BOD has a chance of being captain. The captain needs to be guaranteed a starting position which BOD definitely isn't. I still think he will travel though. I think POC is in with a shout of getting captain although Gatland will probably prefer Warburton.

stephen_n

Teferi wrote: »

I think he is talking more about Irish players than anything else.

Oh it was a reference to Gatland, I thought he was talking about the Lions not using Irish management staff. I doubt very much Gatland will overlook form players just because they are Irish, he isn't stupid.

CatFromHue

The Independent had an article today on the finance side of the tour: http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/lions-set-sights-on-3m-tour-bonanza-3220221.html

"Under the draft player contract, which is expected to be signed off with the players' unions in the next couple of months, each player will receive a basic tour fee of €57,000, which will rise to €85,000 if the Lions win all of their matches, including three Tests against the Wallabies."

"The basic tour fee represents an 18pc increase on the fee of €48,000 that was paid for the tour of South Africa in 2009."

"The four rugby unions, meanwhile, are to receive a fee of €63,000 for each player they provide to the squad as compensation for their unavailability for each country's summer tours"

"Feehan also revealed the Lions had reached an agreement with the Australian Rugby Union to ensure there would be no repeat of the ticket fiasco during the tour of South Africa in 2009 when the midweek matches were beset by poor attendances because of exorbitant ticket prices."

With finances like that there is no chance of the Lions being disbanded!

Fishooks12

Teferi wrote: »

I was only clarifying what the OP meant. It was just an offhand joke about Gatlands apparent dislike of the Irish.

As an aside, I don't think BOD has a chance of being captain. The captain needs to be guaranteed a starting position which BOD definitely isn't. I still think he will travel though. I think POC is in with a shout of getting captain although Gatland will probably prefer Warburton.

If he keeps up his form from last year (ignoring the Kidney ball games) I can't see anyone else that will push him out of the 13 shirt

thomond2006

CatFromHue wrote: »

The Independent had an article today on the finance side of the tour: http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/lions-set-sights-on-3m-tour-bonanza-3220221.html

"Under the draft player contract, which is expected to be signed off with the players' unions in the next couple of months, each player will receive a basic tour fee of €57,000, which will rise to €85,000 if the Lions win all of their matches, including three Tests against the Wallabies."

"The basic tour fee represents an 18pc increase on the fee of €48,000 that was paid for the tour of South Africa in 2009."

"The four rugby unions, meanwhile, are to receive a fee of €63,000 for each player they provide to the squad as compensation for their unavailability for each country's summer tours"

"Feehan also revealed the Lions had reached an agreement with the Australian Rugby Union to ensure there would be no repeat of the ticket fiasco during the tour of South Africa in 2009 when the midweek matches were beset by poor attendances because of exorbitant ticket prices."

With finances like that there is no chance of the Lions being disbanded!

plus the tourists coming over boost the local economies and the local/national unions make money on attendances.

Everybody wins!

Cpt_Blackbeard

Fishooks12 wrote: »

If he keeps up his form from last year (ignoring the Kidney ball games) I can't see anyone else that will push him out of the 13 shirt

There was a huge difference between his Leinster and Irish form last year though.

bamboozle

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

There was a huge difference between his Leinster and Irish form last year though.

well he did play during the world cup with 1 shoulder and 2 tests against NZ - one which he was very good, one which he was very poor.

hard to compare his form last season. In saying that i cant see him as captain. Himself and POC need an injury free season to make the squad.

bilston

Teferi wrote: »

I was only clarifying what the OP meant. It was just an offhand joke about Gatlands apparent dislike of the Irish.

As an aside, I don't think BOD has a chance of being captain. The captain needs to be guaranteed a starting position which BOD definitely isn't. I still think he will travel though. I think POC is in with a shout of getting captain although Gatland will probably prefer Warburton.

Is anyone guarenteed a spot in the test team? I think the whole XV is wide open. That will change a bit as the season progresses but right now a lot of players are in contention not just for the squad but for the text XV. Actually with the announcement of Gatland as coach I'm quite excited about it now and it's still 9 months away.

I was thinking the other day about the three best sides in Europe at the minute and I think they are Wales, Leinster and Clermont Auvergne, there is a common denominator between the three, they're all coached by Kiwis and I'm pleased the Lions have in charge, ideally I'd like to see Schmidt and Gibbs in there as well but then I'm not a Leinster fan!

Teferi

bilston wrote: »

Is anyone guarenteed a spot in the test team?

I wasn't talking about what the starting XV will be.

I was talking in terms of any captain for any rugby team - the captain should be guaranteed their place, not because they are captain but because nobody is good enough to push them out of their position.

bilston

Teferi wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

Is anyone guarenteed a spot in the test team?

I wasn't talking about what the starting XV will be.

I was talking in terms of any captain for any rugby team - the captain should be guaranteed their place, not because they are captain but because nobody is good enough to push them out of their position.

Yeah but I'm saying nobody is guarenteed a place in the team at the minute so picking the captain will be a tough ask. I can't think of anyone who I could say is a cert for the test team.

TheKeenMachine

bilston wrote: »

Yeah but I'm saying nobody is guarenteed a place in the team at the minute so picking the captain will be a tough ask. I can't think of anyone who I could say is a cert for the test team.

Richie Gray and Rory Best are virtually certainly going to start.

val_jester

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

Richie Gray and Rory Best are virtually certainly going to start.

Gatland doesn't rate Best that highly, so I'd expect him to miss out if any of the other contenders have a good season.

On the captaincy, if POC has a good season, there will be a very good chance of him getting it, imo, especially depending on the rest of the coach make up. If it is a mainly Welsh/English backroom staff, then there will be pressure on to give the captaincy to an Irish/Scottish player to even it up. This of course depends on whether there is a player from Ireland/Scotland in enough form to warrant it.

GerM

There is nobody certain to start. Not a single player. There's a season of rugby to be played between now and then and that's what will determine the side. Reputations and careers up until this point are going to have little enough influence. To give an example the following guys got test starts in 2009: Ugo Monye, Luke Fitzgerald, Tom Croft, Joe Worsley, Riki Flutey, Jamie Roberts. None of them were established in their national sides a year out from the tests. Roberts was player of the tour. There are others like Heaslip, Bowe and Kearney that had barely broken into their nation's team a year in advance.

There are always several "guaranteed starters" that are selected. Shane Williams was the obvious one in 2009. He was the reigning IRB Player of the Year but was abysmal out there in all the midweek games. Mike Blair was another who was a shoe in a year out and stank out the place after only getting there as a replacement. Similar story with Ryan Jones who was a revelation in 2005 and nominated alongside Williams and Blair for the IRB award in 2008.

It's fun to make our selections and wonder as to who may go or who may be in the team but it's pointless this far out. For every single jersey, there are currently at least two, if not three, genuine contenders that might get the nod next year.

thomond2006

GerM wrote: »

There is nobody certain to start. Not a single player. There's a season of rugby to be played between now and then and that's what will determine the side. Reputations and careers up until this point are going to have little enough influence. To give an example the following guys got test starts in 2009: Ugo Monye, Luke Fitzgerald, Tom Croft, Joe Worsley, Riki Flutey, Jamie Roberts. None of them were established in their national sides a year out from the tests. Roberts was player of the tour. There are others like Heaslip, Bowe and Kearney that had barely broken into their nation's team a year in advance.

There are always several "guaranteed starters" that are selected. Shane Williams was the obvious one in 2009. He was the reigning IRB Player of the Year but was abysmal out there in all the midweek games. Mike Blair was another who was a shoe in a year out and stank out the place after only getting there as a replacement. Similar story with Ryan Jones who was a revelation in 2005 and nominated alongside Williams and Blair for the IRB award in 2008.

It's fun to make our selections and wonder as to who may go or who may be in the team but it's pointless this far out. For every single jersey, there are currently at least two, if not three, genuine contenders that might get the nod next year.

All very true, good post.

jm08

GerM wrote: »

There is nobody certain to start. Not a single player. There's a season of rugby to be played between now and then and that's what will determine the side. Reputations and careers up until this point are going to have little enough influence. To give an example the following guys got test starts in 2009: Ugo Monye, Luke Fitzgerald, Tom Croft, Joe Worsley, Riki Flutey, Jamie Roberts. None of them were established in their national sides a year out from the tests. Roberts was player of the tour. There are others like Heaslip, Bowe and Kearney that had barely broken into their nation's team a year in advance.

There are always several "guaranteed starters" that are selected. Shane Williams was the obvious one in 2009. He was the reigning IRB Player of the Year but was abysmal out there in all the midweek games. Mike Blair was another who was a shoe in a year out and stank out the place after only getting there as a replacement. Similar story with Ryan Jones who was a revelation in 2005 and nominated alongside Williams and Blair for the IRB award in 2008.

It's fun to make our selections and wonder as to who may go or who may be in the team but it's pointless this far out. For every single jersey, there are currently at least two, if not three, genuine contenders that might get the nod next year.

I'd suggest that the Welsh player's form fluctuates from Wooden spoon contenders to Grand Slam form in 12 month periods. Some of those English players you mention were selected to keep Sky / British media happy.

Edit: Mike Blair was the token Scot on the last tour.

irishbucsfan

Seems like some of the English media are pushing Sexton as a pretty nailed-on starter.

Of course half the Irish media will probably call for ROG!

totallegend

GerM wrote: »

There is nobody certain to start. Not a single player. There's a season of rugby to be played between now and then and that's what will determine the side. Reputations and careers up until this point are going to have little enough influence. To give an example the following guys got test starts in 2009: Ugo Monye, Luke Fitzgerald, Tom Croft, Joe Worsley, Riki Flutey, Jamie Roberts. None of them were established in their national sides a year out from the tests. Roberts was player of the tour. There are others like Heaslip, Bowe and Kearney that had barely broken into their nation's team a year in advance.

It's fun to make our selections and wonder as to who may go or who may be in the team but it's pointless this far out. For every single jersey, there are currently at least two, if not three, genuine contenders that might get the nod next year.

I still cringe when I think about Ugo Monye starting in the 2009 test.

Anyway, this time four years ago, you could have said with 100% certainty that O'Driscoll, O'Connell and Lee Byrne would be test starters for the 2009 games. This time around, it's a lot harder to call and that can only be a good thing if it means guys really have to go out there and prove themselves in training and the warm-up games. The only player close to being nailed on is Warburton and even he'll have to prove his fitness AND stay ahead of Tipuric for Wales...

totallegend

jm08 wrote: »

Edit: Mike Blair was the token Scot on the last tour.

Nathan Hines? Euan Murray?

jm08

totallegend wrote: »

Nathan Hines? Euan Murray?

should have said a token scot. (2/3 players in total).

I can't remember Murray being there - did he get injured very early in the tour? There might also have been doubt over Hines being released by his French club.

totallegend

jm08 wrote: »

should have said a token scot. (2/3 players in total).

I can't remember Murray being there - did he get injured very early in the tour? There might also have been doubt over Hines being released by his French club.

It's OK to admit to being wrong.