British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Donald Coyle

funtime93 wrote: »

I recall people destroying me in this thread a few months back for saying Zebo has a better chance of starting than Visser and look at him now.

Sounding a bit like Ted accepting the golden cleric award there

.ak

funtime93 wrote: »

I recall people destroying me in this thread a few months back for saying Zebo has a better chance of starting than Visser and look at him now.

In fairness he [Visser] would've been ahead of him at the time in terms of pecking order.

There's still a lot of 6N left to play, and the back three of Visser, Hogg and Maitland looked fantastic yesterday. If they had the pack to go with it they'd be dangerous.

.ak

Anyhow, my pick based on the weekend - ignoring the fact there's still plenty of rugby left to play.

15. Kearney
14. Maitland
13. BOD
12. Davies (2nd half!)
11. Halfpenny
10. Sexton
09. Youngs
08. Faletau
07. Tipuric
06. O'Brien
05. Gray
04. Ryan
03. Cole
02. Best
01. Healy

---

16. Youngs
17. Marler
18. Jones
19. Parling
20. Robshaw/Beattie
21. Murray/Care
22. Farrell
23. Hogg/Zebo


Few there I couldn't make up my mind on...

In the front row I thought they pick themselves, Healy was immense and scrummaged well too, Best was by far the most influential hooker on the weekend - aside from a few stray darts and a (unfair) YC. Cole leads the TH race imo. The bench options were more difficult to call - Marler because of his handling, Youngs was decent in the loose too, and Jones because there simply was no other stand out options.

Second row hasn't changed in regards to previous predictions. Ryan I thought was fantastic in the tight, and Gray saved Scotland's bacon from time to time. Honourable mentions go to the other Scottish locks - Hamilton and Kellock warriors as always. Parling seem to be a decent athletic lock, but can't see him touring imo.

Backrow... Robshaw was great, but maybe not as a bench option, but Tipuric was just too good to not be in the starting XV - single handedly dragged the Welsh back into the game. One of the best 7's in Europe imo. Beattie was also immense for a losing team, and is a handy player across the backrow. SOB is SOB, even when he's not fully on the boil he's MoTM material. Faletau won the contact battle, but I see Heaslip winning the war. Far too much skill and leadership not to tour.

Halfbacks I think Murray had a massive game, and even as a critic I have to say he was one of the best SH's on the weekend - Youngs pips him though, just his speed and all round game is what England are all about at the moment, although Care's cameo really will give them a headache as he's vicious in attack.

Sexton was imperious. Kicked far too much when he didn't need to in the second half but that seemed like team orders. Farrell in a close second, but wasn't really tested.

Centres... Whilst the Darce/BOD center pairing has already staked a claim as the best partnership in the tournament, we didn't see a lot from Darce in attack, and whilst Davies was woeful for the first 35 min of the game I thought he really came through in the second half. He can play on inside or outside, and I'd love to see what the two of them could do together. Honourable mentions to Twelvetrees and Matt Scott.

Back three. For me the stand out players were Halfpenny and Maitland, the latter especially impressed me. His work rate was the best out of all the outside backs on the weekend, he was consistently involved in every facet of play. If you watch the replay of the game you'll see him stalking every ruck, breakdown, and loose ball. Scotland have landed themselves a gem, and I wonder if NZ have missed a trick there. Halfpenny and Kearney were almost evens, with Halfpenny knicking it as his varied game won out. Having said that, I just can't see a Lions team without Kearney, and seeing as Halfpenny has had some of greatest moments on the wing, I'd go with both please! Hogg for me on the bench, his display on a losing team was incredible, although Zebo's announced himself as another bolter.

Swiwi

.ak wrote: »

Anyhow, my pick based on the weekend - ignoring the fact there's still plenty of rugby left to play.

15. Kearney
14. Maitland
13. BOD
12. Davies (2nd half!)
11. Halfpenny
10. Sexton
09. Youngs
08. Faletau
07. Tipuric
06. O'Brien
05. Gray
04. Ryan
03. Cole
02. Best
01. Healy

---

16. Youngs
17. Marler
18. Jones
19. Parling
20. Robshaw/Beattie
21. Murray/Care
22. Farrell
23. Hogg/Zebo


Few there I couldn't make up my mind on...

In the front row I thought they pick themselves, Healy was immense and scrummaged well too, Best was by far the most influential hooker on the weekend - aside from a few stray darts and a (unfair) YC. Cole leads the TH race imo. The bench options were more difficult to call - Marler because of his handling, Youngs was decent in the loose too, and Jones because there simply was no other stand out options.

Second row hasn't changed in regards to previous predictions. Ryan I thought was fantastic in the tight, and Gray saved Scotland's bacon from time to time. Honourable mentions go to the other Scottish locks - Hamilton and Kellock warriors as always. Parling seem to be a decent athletic lock, but can't see him touring imo.

Backrow... Robshaw was great, but maybe not as a bench option, but Tipuric was just too good to not be in the starting XV - single handedly dragged the Welsh back into the game. One of the best 7's in Europe imo. Beattie was also immense for a losing team, and is a handy player across the backrow. SOB is SOB, even when he's not fully on the boil he's MoTM material. Faletau won the contact battle, but I see Heaslip winning the war. Far too much skill and leadership not to tour.

Halfbacks I think Murray had a massive game, and even as a critic I have to say he was one of the best SH's on the weekend - Youngs pips him though, just his speed and all round game is what England are all about at the moment, although Care's cameo really will give them a headache as he's vicious in attack.

Sexton was imperious. Kicked far too much when he didn't need to in the second half but that seemed like team orders. Farrell in a close second, but wasn't really tested.

Centres... Whilst the Darce/BOD center pairing has already staked a claim as the best partnership in the tournament, we didn't see a lot from Darce in attack, and whilst Davies was woeful for the first 35 min of the game I thought he really came through in the second half. He can play on inside or outside, and I'd love to see what the two of them could do together. Honourable mentions to Twelvetrees and Matt Scott.

Back three. For me the stand out players were Halfpenny and Maitland, the latter especially impressed me. His work rate was the best out of all the outside backs on the weekend, he was consistently involved in every facet of play. If you watch the replay of the game you'll see him stalking every ruck, breakdown, and loose ball. Scotland have landed themselves a gem, and I wonder if NZ have missed a trick there. Halfpenny and Kearney were almost evens, with Halfpenny knicking it as his varied game won out. Having said that, I just can't see a Lions team without Kearney, and seeing as Halfpenny has had some of greatest moments on the wing, I'd go with both please! Hogg for me on the bench, his display on a losing team was incredible, although Zebo's announced himself as another bolter.

Interesting, but methinks too much of an unashamedly Irish bias, not that I blame you. The English pack, much like they did v the ABs, dominated the forward battle, and I can't possibly see how 3 Scottish locks could be mentioned. As much as it pains me to say it, if Eng keep producing dominating forward performances like these, then they are going to have to make up a lot of the Lions forwards. The 2 English scrumhalves were above Murray, albeit with a dominant pack. But Murray should be in as the 3rd pick. Darcy is decent enough for Ireland, but I dont think he's remotely in the Lions frame, not enough attacking strings to his bow. Sexton was imperious in the first half, but steady at best in the second - Sexton v Farrell is reason enough to get a ticket for this weeks match.

Last but not least, NZ did not miss a trick with Maitland. He was considered as an outside chance for the 2011 squad, but wing/fullback is one position NZ doesn't generally have in short supply, and he was actually let go by the Crusaders after last season.

As much as anyone else, I hope Ireland has a decent representation on the Lions team, but in terms of starting XV, I think Healy and BOD (if he stays fit) are probably the 2 most definite to start. Obviously Sexton, SOB, Best etc are right up there, but loose forward is very competitive, and if Gatland went with Farrell to start I wouldn't see it as a complete shock.

I guess all will be a lot lot clearer after this coming weekend, all 3 games look like mouthwatering clashes, even Scotland v Italy which would usually be a dead cert cure for insomnia.

Tox56

I think Sexton is more in the 'definite to start' category than Healy or BOD. Although I don't think you really can be definite to start this far out, in the Lions special on Sky they asked who they would wrap in cotton wool for the tour, and Sexton was the overwhelming choice. Hard to see him not starting barring injury, might be a year too soon for Farrell

CatFromHue

I'd view Halfpenny as a full back now as that's where he plays the vast majority of the time. I think he also matched Kearney in the areas that Kearney is strong in and was excellent in the rest of his play e.g. the tackle on SOB and his finish for his try. So Halfpenny at 15 for me.

I think Gilroy offered more and was involved more than Zebo yesterday. When you look back at the Irish tries Gilroy pops up in two of them and plays pretty smart in them. So Gilroy ahead of Zebo for me.

Twelvetrees looked good but I suppose Davies has credit in the bank which helps him.

totallegend

.ak wrote: »

Anyhow, my pick based on the weekend - ignoring the fact there's still plenty of rugby left to play.

15. Kearney
14. Maitland
13. BOD
12. Davies (2nd half!)
11. Halfpenny
10. Sexton
09. Youngs
08. Faletau
07. Tipuric
06. O'Brien
05. Gray
04. Ryan
03. Cole
02. Best
01. Healy

---

16. Youngs
17. Marler
18. Jones
19. Parling
20. Robshaw/Beattie
21. Murray/Care
22. Farrell
23. Hogg/Zebo

I think based on this weekend alone, Hogg would have to be in the 15 jersey, I thought he was just excellent. Agree with you on Tipuric, he was phenomenal and he has to start next weekend, which could be the final nail in Warburton's Lions coffin.

If we're lacking a quality option at 12 (Roberts was pants, Barritt is limited), then I wouldn't be surprised to see Farrell shifted there.

Hagz

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best
3. Dan Cole
4. Joe Launchbury
5. Donnacha Ryan
6. Sean O'Brien
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Toby Faletau
9. Ben Youngs
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. George North
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Tom Youngs
17. Joe Marler
18. Adam Jones
19. Richie Gray
20. Chris Robshaw
21. Danny Care
22. Owen Farrell
23. Stuart Hogg

Swiwi

Tox56 wrote: »

I think Sexton is more in the 'definite to start' category than Healy or BOD. Although I don't think you really can be definite to start this far out, in the Lions special on Sky they asked who they would wrap in cotton wool for the tour, and Sexton was the overwhelming choice. Hard to see him not starting barring injury, might be a year too soon for Farrell

Yeah, you could be right. Healy barely got a mention in those never-ending Lions squads that the English papers released a month or two back, although I genuinely think he's the best on display at present, whatever happened to Gethin Jenkins he's gone back at a rate of knots. I think if BOD keeps producing vintage rugby like the weekend, he'd be pretty damn hard to ignore, and he has the points on the board so as to speak. But you just know the English media will keep fighting Farrells corner, and if England pull off a grand slam in this years 6N, I reckon Sexton will be in for a real bunfight.

Swiwi

totallegend wrote: »

I think based on this weekend alone, Hogg would have to be in the 15 jersey, I thought he was just excellent. Agree with you on Tipuric, he was phenomenal and he has to start next weekend, which could be the final nail in Warburton's Lions coffin.

If we're lacking a quality option at 12 (Roberts was pants, Barritt is limited), then I wouldn't be surprised to see Farrell shifted there.

Please no! I hate seeing 10s moved to 12, it never works (Carter, Sexton, etc etc)

irishbucsfan

Swiwi wrote: »

Please no! I hate seeing 10s moved to 12, it never works (Carter, Sexton, etc etc)

Farrell is pretty good right across midfield in fairness to him. I'd still prefer him at 10 tough

Swiwi

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Farrell is pretty good right across midfield in fairness to him. I'd still prefer him at 10 tough

For what it's worth (nothing!) I thought twelvetrees looked quite good, but that was the first time I had ever see him play, and Scotland were so passive on defence, it's a bit hard to read too much into it. But if I was Lancaster I would stick with 12trees at 12, with Tualiagi at centre, and relegate barrit to the bench. Playing Barrit & Tualagi is a bit like Nonu & SBW together, too much brawn and not enough brain, you need a Conrad Smith like player to bring balance.

.ak

Swiwi wrote: »

Interesting, but methinks too much of an unashamedly Irish bias, not that I blame you. The English pack, much like they did v the ABs, dominated the forward battle, and I can't possibly see how 3 Scottish locks could be mentioned. As much as it pains me to say it, if Eng keep producing dominating forward performances like these, then they are going to have to make up a lot of the Lions forwards. The 2 English scrumhalves were above Murray, albeit with a dominant pack. But Murray should be in as the 3rd pick. Darcy is decent enough for Ireland, but I dont think he's remotely in the Lions frame, not enough attacking strings to his bow. Sexton was imperious in the first half, but steady at best in the second - Sexton v Farrell is reason enough to get a ticket for this weeks match.

Last but not least, NZ did not miss a trick with Maitland. He was considered as an outside chance for the 2011 squad, but wing/fullback is one position NZ doesn't generally have in short supply, and he was actually let go by the Crusaders after last season.

As much as anyone else, I hope Ireland has a decent representation on the Lions team, but in terms of starting XV, I think Healy and BOD (if he stays fit) are probably the 2 most definite to start. Obviously Sexton, SOB, Best etc are right up there, but loose forward is very competitive, and if Gatland went with Farrell to start I wouldn't see it as a complete shock.

I guess all will be a lot lot clearer after this coming weekend, all 3 games look like mouthwatering clashes, even Scotland v Italy which would usually be a dead cert cure for insomnia.

Agree with everything here, however the squad I picked isn't the one I reckon would travel, just one based on this weekends performances. I'd have more English players in the pack if it wasn't for the level of opposition being so poor.

trackguy

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'd view Halfpenny as a full back now as that's where he plays the vast majority of the time. I think he also matched Kearney in the areas that Kearney is strong in and was excellent in the rest of his play e.g. the tackle on SOB and his finish for his try. So Halfpenny at 15 for me.

I think Gilroy offered more and was involved more than Zebo yesterday. When you look back at the Irish tries Gilroy pops up in two of them and plays pretty smart in them. So Gilroy ahead of Zebo for me.

Twelvetrees looked good but I suppose Davies has credit in the bank which helps him.

Halfpenny shaded Kearney yesterday. To borrow your expression though, Kearney has plenty of credit in the bank. The tackle on SOB was incredible btw.

Billy '36' could well be back on the bench next week and would struggle to make an impression on Lions selectors.

Both Gilroy and Zebo will be firmly on the radar. What you say about Gilroy is probably right but a brief glimpse at the sports pages today will tell you who made the greater impression of the two, rightly or wrongly.

Jon Davies took a few giant steps backward yesterday and BOD the same forward.

Murray did his chances the world of good yesterday.

CatFromHue

The thing is Halfpenny also has alot of credit in the bank. He can and has matched Kearney in the areas Kearney is strong but also offers more in the other areas of his game.

Annabella1

Interesting talk
My 2 cents is that I thought Coombs was the best forward on display yesterday in Cardiff on his debut.A big lad with great mobility.
Wish we had him..

Swiwi

CatFromHue wrote: »

The thing is Halfpenny also has alot of credit in the bank. He can and has matched Kearney in the areas Kearney is strong but also offers more in the other areas of his game.

I think Halfpenny has incontrovertibly got the Lions 15 nailed down, barring injury, or Gatland deciding to move him to the wing. A shining light among Welsh mediocrity over the last 12 months. I would only move him to the wing if someone else was clearly playing better at 15, or there were no decent wing options, neither of which is the case. I think the real debate is Kearney taking the backup 15 vs others such as Hogg, and that is where the next few weeks come into play.

Fishooks13

Annabella1 wrote: »

Interesting talk
My 2 cents is that I thought Coombs was the best forward on display yesterday in Cardiff on his debut.A big lad with great mobility.
Wish we had him..

Jesus, can't agree with that. I thought Coombs was ok, not near the level of McCarthy or Ryan.

trackguy

If Kearney shows any form at all he will tour. His success 4 years ago probably counts for more than it should. Gatland is familiar with him too.

trackguy

Fishooks13 wrote: »

Jesus, can't agree with that. I thought Coombs was ok, not near the level of McCarthy or Ryan.

Put himself about quite a lot. Spent quite a bit of time battering rucks that were already lost, including the one BOD picked from for his try.

CatFromHue

Fishooks13 wrote: »

Jesus, can't agree with that. I thought Coombs was ok, not near the level of McCarthy or Ryan.

His stats on ESPN are impressive enough but yeah Ryan and McCarthy, Ryan in particular, really worked hard in defence yesterday.

I've heard a few people mention, Donal Lenihan being one, that Combs was brought in as a ball carrier as the Welsh were missing a few and in that aspect he did very well for Wales.

rrpc

trackguy wrote: »

Put himself about quite a lot. Spent quite a bit of time battering rucks that were already lost, including the one BOD picked from for his try.

That one looked particularly idiotic. No idea what he was doing bouncing Zebo out, who was just standing as pillar. Meanwhile BOD picks and dots down and Coombs is completely out of position.

Fishooks13

It's very hard to pick a starting 15 after this week. Instead I'll just say who i felt did their chances of touring/starting good and bad

Improved their chances:

Zebo
D Ryan
Murray
Falatau
Youngs x2
SOB
Halfpenny
Ashton
Healy
Marler

Didn't do themselves any favors:

Warburton
Kearney
Jenkins
Visser
Denton
Davies
Roberts

thomond2006

Tipuric definitely improved his chances.

Swiwi

thomond2006 wrote: »

Tipuric definitely improved his chances.

Parisse did too! Oh wait...

Fishooks13

thomond2006 wrote: »

Tipuric definitely improved his chances.

Don't know how I forgot him considering the amount of times I've called for him at 7 on this thread before!

trackguy

How do ppl see Mike Ross's chances of making the squad? A good performance against England could go a long way towards getting him there I think.Or does he offer too little in the loose?

Swiwi

trackguy wrote: »

How do ppl see Mike Ross's chances of making the squad? A good performance against England could go a long way towards getting him there I think.Or does he offer too little in the loose?

There are not a lot of quality THs going round, so I think he's definitely in with a shout. Cole is head & shoulders above the rest. I think he'd struggle to make a starting XV, but he could well make the touring squad.

Glass Prison 1214

Peoples opinion on the starting 15 will be changing like wildfire for the next few weeks, here is mine currently:

15.Halfpenny 14.Ashton 13.BOD 12.D'Arcy 11.North 10.Sexton 9.Murray 8.Faletau 7.Tipuric 6.SOB 5.Parling 4.Ryan 3.Cole 2.Best 1.Healy.

I have no idea that my team will be unrecognisable next week in comparison

CatFromHue

trackguy wrote: »

How do ppl see Mike Ross's chances of making the squad? A good performance against England could go a long way towards getting him there I think.Or does he offer too little in the loose?

He offers a fair bit, for a TH prop, in the loose. The options at TH are:

Ross (Ire)
Jones, Craig Mitchell (Wal)
Cole, Wilson (Eng)
Murray (Scot)

On the last tour Jones, Murray, and Vickery were all originally selected so from looking at the list above Ross is definitely in the top 3 TH's around at the moment. I'd be surprised if Ross doesn't go or is a string candidate to be in the Test 23.