British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

P.Walnuts

Podge_irl wrote: »

I assume you mean Scarlets. He was only picked at 6 for those games because McLaughlin was out.

Sorry Scarlets ye.

I might have had an impact, but pretty hypothetical. Not saying he doesn't regularly play 7, of course he does, but he is clearly still thought of a 6 aswell, hence why calling him a specialist 7 is a bit off imo.

Podge_irl

P.Walnuts wrote: »

I might have had an impact, but pretty hypothetical.

Of course it had an impact. Leinster's first choice backrow is undeniably McLaughlin/O'Brien/Heaslip. For the Clermont game the options were either start O'Brien at 6 with Jennings at 7 or starting O'Brien at 7 with Jordi Murphy at 6. There was only ever going to be one winner there.

I would say he can cover 6 but is primarily a 7. It is where he plays be far his most rugby.

shuffol

Podge_irl wrote: »

Of course it had an impact. Leinster's first choice backrow is undeniably McLaughlin/O'Brien/Heaslip. For the Clermont game the options were either start O'Brien at 6 with Jennings at 7 or starting O'Brien at 7 with Jordi Murphy at 6. There was only ever going to be one winner there.

I would say he can cover 6 but is primarily a 7. It is where he plays be far his most rugby.

He can do a lot more than just cover 6, he was ERC player of the year playing primarily at 6.

P.Walnuts

Podge_irl wrote: »

Of course it had an impact. Leinster's first choice backrow is undeniably McLaughlin/O'Brien/Heaslip. For the Clermont game the options were either start O'Brien at 6 with Jennings at 7 or starting O'Brien at 7 with Jordi Murphy at 6. There was only ever going to be one winner there.

I would say he can cover 6 but is primarily a 7. It is where he plays be far his most rugby.

So SOB has never played 6, Jennings at 7 with McLaughlin on the bench?

Did SOB ever play for Ireland at 7 before Wallace's injury?

Podge_irl

shuffol wrote: »

He can do a lot more than just cover 6, he was ERC player of the year playing primarily at 6.

He started 4 games at 6, 2 games at 8 and 3 games (every single knock-out) at 7.

danthefan

SOB is easily as good at 6 as at 7.

shuffol

Podge_irl wrote: »

He started 4 games at 6, 2 games at 8 and 3 games (every single knock-out) at 7.

He was relatively quiet in the knockouts, breakdown work wasnt near where it is now and he was always moved to 6 after an hr or so, him moving to 6 in the final at HT changed the game. He definately looked more like a 6 playing 7 then. He's a world class openside now.

Podge_irl

shuffol wrote: »

He definately looked more like a 6 playing 7 then. He's a world class openside now.

I agree with both these things. He is indeed easily as good at 6 as 7, but he has become a significantly better 7 over the last two seasons and now plays most of his rugby there for Leinster and Ireland.

I'm not suggesting he should only be considered at 7 for the Lions. Simply that there is no reason not to consider him at 7. His ability to cover 6 and 8 is a benefit, not a hindrance. He does everything you would want your 7 to do.

For Paws

In the traditional view, a Blind Side flanker wore Number 6, and had 3 main tasks.

(1) At the scrum to push forwards and inwards to assist the Tight Head prop to remain tight to his hooker.

(2) At the lineout, to provide a further (after the Locks 4, 5 & 8) jumper.

(3) In defense, to regain the ball at the breakdown.

In recent times, 2 further tasks have been added.

(1) To defend opposition back-row moves, and

(2) In attack, to act as midfield ball carriers.

Traditionally the 6 was taller and stronger than the 7, whose speed towards the opposition 10 was his most prized asset.

It has to be said that nowadays the differences between what 6s & 7s duties & skill sets are less obvious, and that any truly talented international standard should BE ABLE to play on either side.

Imo SOB will find it easier to start on a Lions side at 6, given the (hopefully) decent choices available of those who usually play at 7.

irishbucsfan

You've missed the single most important aspect that 6s have assumed in the modern game. Offensive rucking.

6 Is a great position to squeeze a guy like Lydiate or Ferris into the side. I'd much prefer to see a player like that at 6 in Australia. So long as we have one of them fit that is. SOB should play at 7 if he's going to start.

WorldRugby99

picking lions teams are fun but you should also remember-
everyone has an ingrained national bias whatever their nationality- and everyone is guilty of overhyping their own players
there will inevitably be some more injured between now and end of season
there will be 2 or 3 shock selections/omissions in squad
some will get injured as tour progresses,others who expected to be midweekers end up in test team due to ontour performances-always happens to a few players.
therefore whatever teams people come up with now will come the first test probably be wrong!

In fairness its probably the most open-ended debate for a lions team in a while due to there being very few 'definites'-which is why peoples teams keep chopping and changing after each group of internationals. Take this weekend-people on here all putting 6,7 or 8 irish-and only 1 or 2 english-what happens if england win -does that suddenly turn around the other way? if wales win in paris-do people start putting welsh in again?
I could name a xv now but come the weekend would probably be changing it-it really is that open this year.

.ak

The thing with SOB is he's extremely committed to whatever work he's assigned. When people were doubting his skill as an out and out groundhog he put in a master class performance in NZ of all places. When Leinster were in trouble he was asked to shift to blindside where he tore up trees and then some. He's your Ronald Speirs.

I can see him wearing any number on his back and complimenting any backrow you can conjure up. He could poach and run all day with Tipuric adding a bit more mobility and link, or he could carry and smash it up with Robshaw. It won't really matter. People talk about the balance of the backrow being important, what's more important is a players ability to adapt to that balance. That's where SOBs skills lie, and that's why I think it'll be very hard for Gatland not to put him on a a starting team sheet.

Swiwi

.ak wrote: »

The thing with SOB is he's extremely committed to whatever work he's assigned. When people were doubting his skill as an out and out groundhog he put in a master class performance in NZ of all places. When Leinster were in trouble he was asked to shift to blindside where he tore up trees and then some. He's your Ronald Speirs.

I can see him wearing any number on his back and complimenting any backrow you can conjure up. He could poach and run all day with Tipuric adding a bit more mobility and link, or he could carry and smash it up with Robshaw. It won't really matter. People talk about the balance of the backrow being important, what's more important is a players ability to adapt to that balance. That's where SOBs skills lie, and that's why I think it'll be very hard for Gatland not to put him on a a starting team sheet.

Make up of the bench will intrigue me. If we assume 4 forward reserves, and 2 of these are prop/hooker, then does Gatland go with a specialist lock and a utility loose forward (eg SOB, if not in starting lineup), or a blindside who can cover lock (eg Tom Croft) and more of a specialist 7 reserve (eg Tipuric).

As the poster above said though, all is (mindless) conjecture, and I guess you just have to wait & see. 'tis mighty fun guessing though...

TheGoldenAges

Watching The Rugby Club, Skysports did their Lions index for the first week of the 6 Nations, I know it's not really realistic but the videos here: http://www.skysports.com/video/inline/0,,27452_8478488,00.html#

Mentioned the winners of week one were Farrell, Bod, Hogg and Sean O'Brien
The losers included Davies, Warburton and most of the welsh team :P

part time punk

6 Lydiate/Ferris - both expected back during 6 Nations, whoever regains form most
7 Tipuric
8 Heaslip
20 SOB - to come on at 50/60 mins

LeftBase

part time punk wrote: »

6 Lydiate/Ferris - both expected back during 6 Nations, whoever regains form most
7 Tipuric
8 Heaslip
20 SOB - to come on at 50/60 mins

Rob89

part time punk wrote: »

6 Lydiate/Ferris - both expected back during 6 Nations, whoever regains form most
7 Tipuric
8 Heaslip
20 SOB - to come on at 50/60 mins

I'm shocked at the amount of people picking Tupuric over SO'B at 7, I mean he didn't even start for Wales in the first game, don't get me wrong he's a very good player and should have started against Ireland but I wouldn't have him in a team over SO'B or Robshaw for that matter.

.ak

Tipuric is one of the best 7's in Europe, he's criminally underated. Ofcourse I'd like SOB to start ahead of him, but I wouldn't be too disappointed if the 7 shirt was given to Tipuric.

ssaye

.ak wrote: »

Tipuric is one of the best 7's in Europe, he's criminally underated. Ofcourse I'd like SOB to start ahead of him, but I wouldn't be too disappointed if the 7 shirt was given to Tipuric.

If Wales have a terrible 6N, and Ireland have a decent one SOB will get the jersey but for an out and out 7 Tupuric is class imo very little between them.

Warburton should be worried about even touring the way his form has been.

Robshaw is certainly in with a shout if England do well.

thomond2006

A big performance from Tipuric in Paris would be massive for him, he's up against some big names in French backrow.

RobbieRuns

Tipuric leads the way for me at the moment. Class player and always makes a difference.

Rob89

Warburton reminds me a lot of Ryan Jones, in that both were captains of grand slam winning teams and favourites to be Lions test captains in the build up to the tours, the drop off in form from Warburton has been unbelievable for a guy who has been compared to McCaw by some people. Injuries have obviously played a part but I don't think that can be used as an excuse tbh, at the moment he certainly won't be in the test team and unless he can put in some good performances he might not even make the squad, just like Jones did in 2009. At the moment assuming three 7's are going it would have to be SO'B, Robshaw and one of Warburton and Tupuric, Rennie in my opinion just isn't good enough. I know I'll probably be crucified for have Tupuric and Warburton on level terms but in the AI's Tupuric didn't exactly set the world on fire but I'm really looking forward to see how he gets on in the rest of the 6N's and if he plays every game he should get a spot on the plane if he continues his Ospreys form of late... I also think Chris Henry could have an outside chance of a place if he and Ulster keep up their levels of performance in the Rabo and Henieken Cup.

Dublin Red Devil

The Opposition

WorldRugby99

I dont quite get all the tipuric love yet.He started v samoa and was pretty ineffective.Its always easy to look good coming on as a sub against tiring defenders on the backfoot(which ireland was last week). For him to be talked up as a lions starter-hes got to start proving it for the full 80 against the top sides-starting today v france.For me hes nowhere near a lions XV yet. will be watching today though to see how he goes and will be happy to be proved wrong!

Glass Prison 1214

WorldRugby99 wrote: »

I dont quite get all the tipuric love yet.He started v samoa and was pretty ineffective.Its always easy to look good coming on as a sub against tiring defenders on the backfoot(which ireland was last week). For him to be talked up as a lions starter-hes got to start proving it for the full 80 against the top sides-starting today v france.For me hes nowhere near a lions XV yet. will be watching today though to see how he goes and will be happy to be proved wrong!

Gatland has spoken about playing with an out and out 7 to counter Pocock, and as SOB and Robshaw aren't really considered true groundhog 7s it means one of Warburton or Tipuric is likely to be in the team, and proven or not its Tipuric every day of the week for me.

Fishooks13

WorldRugby99 wrote: »

I dont quite get all the tipuric love yet.He started v samoa and was pretty ineffective.Its always easy to look good coming on as a sub against tiring defenders on the backfoot(which ireland was last week). For him to be talked up as a lions starter-hes got to start proving it for the full 80 against the top sides-starting today v france.For me hes nowhere near a lions XV yet. will be watching today though to see how he goes and will be happy to be proved wrong!

He's been fantastic all season. A top quality 7

WorldRugby99

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

Gatland has spoken about playing with an out and out 7 to counter Pocock, and as SOB and Robshaw aren't really considered true groundhog 7s it means one of Warburton or Tipuric is likely to be in the team, and proven or not its Tipuric every day of the week for me.

Im not sure you always need an out and out 7,regardless of what gatland thinks-and given his poor record against australia,im not going to put too much on what he says. NZ have mccaw the best,but provided all your back row do what is needed,as england proved in autumn,not having an out and out 7 doesnt matter.Both england,ireland and safrica have won plenty of big games without a sepecialist 7. And personally I would prefer a top class 6.5 then an inferior 'specialist' 7.
Yes warburton isnt good at moment but tipuric is unproven so i dont see why he then goes straight in.

WorldRugby99

Fishooks13 wrote: »

He's been fantastic all season. A top quality 7

name a wales game he has played the full 80 whens he been brilliant?

Ospreys form isnt international quality.

Fishooks13

WorldRugby99 wrote: »

name a wales game he has played the full 80 whens he been brilliant?

Ospreys form isnt international quality.

He only has 11 caps. But he deserves his shot to start for Wales and has been far better than Warburton this season elsewhere.

.ak

WorldRugby99 wrote: »

name a wales game he has played the full 80 whens he been brilliant?

Ospreys form isnt international quality.

You can see a players form without them playing on an international side; parisse, Hogg, Domingo, lobbe etc