British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Inspector Coptoor

Bridge93 wrote: »

Full Backs: Kearney, Halfpenny, Hogg
Wings: North, Bowe, Ashton, Visser, Cuthbert
Centres: O Driscoll, Tuilagi, Davies, Barritt/Roberts
Fly Halves: Sexton, Farrell, Flood
Scrum Halves: Phillips, Youngs, Care
8s: Heaslip, Falateau
Flankers: O Brien, Ferris (if fit)/wood, robshaw, lydiate, Tipuric
Locks: Gray, Launchbery, Lawes, Wyn Jones
Hookers: Best, Ford, Rees
Props: Healy, Corbisiero, Jones, Cole

My 38/39 personally, maybe need another prop

Full backs - yes
Wingers - all very similar really - big, powerful guys. I'd drop North & bring Zebo or Gilroy
Centres - yes
Fly halves - dunno about flood. I reckon biggar will play himself in as flood isn't playing enough
Scrum halves - Philips mightn't travel, Murray might get the nod. Other two - yes
8s - yes
Flankers - lydiate & ferris probably won't return.
I'd bring SOB, Tipuric, Robshaw, Wood. Warburton will more than likely travel
Locks - Lawes is a liability. I agree about Gray, Launchbury. Evans is playing himself in & I'd leave a spot blank for a bolter
Hookers - Best, Youngs & Strauss
Props - Healy, Cole, Jones, Ross
Probably unbalanced with LHs & THs though

P.Walnuts

I think if there is going to be one giant winger out of North/Visser/Cuthbert its going to be North.

jamiedav2011

Visser shouldn't travel unless he shows a lot more for Scotland. One trick pony with little more to his game than finishing. That's not good enough for an international winger. Would definitely bring Zebo ahead of him at this stage.

Fishooks13

Full Backs: Kearney, Halfpenny, Hogg
Wings: North, Zebo, Ashton, Fitzgerald, Visser
Centres: O Driscoll, Tuilagi, Davies, Barritt
Fly Halves: Sexton, Farrell, Laidlaw
Scrum Halves: Murray, Youngs, Care
8s: Heaslip, Falateau
Flankers: O Brien, Ferris, Armitage, Lydiate, robshaw, Tipuric
Locks: Hines, Gray, Evans, D Ryan
Hookers: Best, Strauss, Youngs
Props: Healy, Corbisiero, Jones, Cole

danthefan

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Visser shouldn't travel unless he shows a lot more for Scotland. One trick pony with little more to his game than finishing. That's not good enough for an international winger. Would definitely bring Zebo ahead of him at this stage.

What has Zebo done that puts him ahead of Visser exactly (in international terms)?

jamiedav2011

danthefan wrote: »

What has Zebo done that puts him ahead of Visser exactly (in international terms)?

What has Visser done internationally to say he's Lions quality? He's hugely overrated. Zebo has a kicking game and can play full back, while adding far more all round spark than Visser. Visser's defense is very suspect too. Don't get the hype personally. Zebo has had a fantastic season too.

Fishooks13

Zebo is far more dynamic than Visser.

Both lethal finishers though

danthefan

Fishooks13 wrote: »

Zebo is far more dynamic than Visser.

Both lethal finishers though

What does that mean?

This is an example of how we overrate our own players and underrate others imo. Against Wales Zebo had one crazy cameo that we'll never see again and ran in a try made by BOD, and being honest he didn't do a whole lot else. That's not to say he played badly, he made his tackles and did nothing wrong, but he wasn't very involved.

Visser had a fairly similar game today for example (minus the flick), finished a try well, and we dismiss him. All the while playing in a much weaker side that Zebo.

And just for the record I've no issue with Zebo being in the Ireland team nor would I have an issue if he goes on the Lions tour. This is about something else really.

jamiedav2011

danthefan wrote: »

What does that mean?

I would say it's fairly obvious, he's got many more strings to his bow than Visser. Would you not agree?

LeftBase

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Locks - Lawes is a liability. I agree about Gray, Launchbury. Evans is playing himself in & I'd leave a spot blank for a bolter

Agree on Lawes. 15 men is a bonus in a test match!

I think Donnacha Ryan could be in with a shout. He does his work well and can cover the back row in a fix.

Fishooks13

Lawes won't travel on current form.

Grey is having an awful season too, really ineffective around the park in defense.

D Ryan will travel

jamiedav2011

Don't see how you could have Lawes or Gray travelling. If Gray had short dark hair he'd be a nobody.

Hines, Ryan, Launchbury, Parling, Evans, AWJ all better options.

Hines has to travel for me.

jamiedav2011

danthefan wrote: »

What does that mean?

This is an example of how we overrate our own players and underrate others imo. Against Wales Zebo had one crazy cameo that we'll never see again and ran in a try made by BOD, and being honest he didn't do a whole lot else. That's not to say he played badly, he made his tackles and did nothing wrong, but he wasn't very involved.

Visser had a fairly similar game today for example (minus the flick), finished a try well, and we dismiss him. All the while playing in a much weaker side that Zebo.

And just for the record I've no issue with Zebo being in the Ireland team nor would I have an issue if he goes on the Lions tour. This is about something else really.

Should the fact that he's playing in a much weaker side be held up as a positive for him? Many ways you oculd look at that.

Think you're trying to get us to say that Zebo had a great game against Wales, merely because you think that flick is being blown out of all proportion. He was solid against Wales, finished a try and yes the flick was good. However, as I say, he's having a great all round season, and has far more about his game than Visser.

If you're mentioning over-rating players, then look no further than Visser!

Inspector Coptoor

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Don't see how you could have Lawes or Gray travelling. If Gray had short dark hair he'd be a nobody.

Hines, Ryan, Launchbury, Parling, Evans, AWJ all better options.

Hines has to travel for me.

Why pick out his hair.
Is it because we wouldn't have noticed his marauding try last year if it wasnt for his hair?

AWJ isn't playing enough.

Hines is a good option.
People forget about him, myself included.

I dunno about Parling, would need to see more of him tbh.

Anyway, Lawes & Hartley can't travel in my mind.
No discipline at all.

Fishooks13

danthefan wrote: »

What does that mean?

This is an example of how we overrate our own players and underrate others imo. Against Wales Zebo had one crazy cameo that we'll never see again and ran in a try made by BOD, and being honest he didn't do a whole lot else. That's not to say he played badly, he made his tackles and did nothing wrong, but he wasn't very involved.

Visser had a fairly similar game today for example (minus the flick), finished a try well, and we dismiss him. All the while playing in a much weaker side that Zebo.

I'm basing my opinion on more than one game, I think that much should be obvious.

By dynamic I mean:

Zebo is a better footballer, plain and simple. Huge left boot, the ability to adapt his attacking game to suit broken play (standing at first receiver and in the center as he's done for Munster and Ireland).

He's got more of an ability to create something from nothing than Visser imo. Better fielder too.

Not Visser is a big strong guy with a serious ability to finish. I'd take them both, but I think it's fair to say that Zebo has a bit more all round footballing ability.

corny

I'd be very surprised if Gatland doesn't pick certain Welsh players.

Wynn Jones, Warbutton, Phillips and Roberts will tour. Personally i'd only bring Roberts of the 4.

jamiedav2011

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Why pick out his hair.
Is it because we wouldn't have noticed his marauding try last year if it wasnt for his hair?

AWJ isn't playing enough.

Hines is a good option.
People forget about him, myself included.

I dunno about Parling, would need to see more of him tbh.

Anyway, Lawes & Hartley can't travel in my mind.
No discipline at all.

I pick out his hair because it seems to set him apart as some sort of demi god, when he's not. He's young and talented and can run, but give me a Ryan, Hines or a Parling anyday. A second rows primary job should be the nuts and bolts, marauding runs should come as an added bonus.
Gray doesn't stand out for either Glasgow or Scotland for the most part.

It's the Chabal beard syndrome.

corny

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

I pick out his hair because it seems to set him apart as some sort of demi god, when he's not. He's young and talented and can run, but give me a Ryan, Hines or a Parling anyday. A second rows primary job should be the nuts and bolts, marauding runs should come as an added bonus.
Gray doesn't stand out for either Glasgow or Scotland for the most part.

It's the Chabal beard syndrome.

jamiedav2011

corny wrote: »

Didn't stand out for Glasgow then. Ask Devin Toner.

He certainly isn't setting the world alight in Stockport either.

Vastly overrated imo.

thomond2006

Hines might have release issues, then again he did ditch Perpignan in 2009...

Fishooks13

I don't know what people are basing this notion that Gatland is going to favor Welsh players on. He really doesn't strike me as that kind of coach. In fact he's quiet ruthless

jimjamcos

One thing Gatland has shown throughout his time in management is an unwavering disregard for sentiment (this is due in part to his own arrogance IMO) evident since he gave the guts of the golden generation their chances in 1999. His ruthlessness is also highlighted by his choice of Andy Farrell as his defence coach over his own sidekick Shaun Edwards.

He will pick on form regardless of names.

tolosenc

thomond2006 wrote: »

Hines might have release issues, then again he did ditch Perpignan in 2009...

It could open a door to a return to Leinster...

tolosenc

jimjamcos wrote: »

He will pick on form regardless of names.

Politics will come into it.

I reckon Gray, Beattie, Laidlaw and Hogg will travel, because there needs to be a smattering of Scots in the squad, and all play in relatively weak areas (well, except Hogg and Beattie, who're actually decent).

Likewise, there won't be fewer than 5 Englishmen in the test 23. Similarly, if it's a toss up between Kearney and Halfpenny for FB, and Ireland already have Healy, Best, O'Brien, Heaslip, Sexton and O'Driscoll in the starting XV, Halfpenny will get the nod.

At present, I'd guess the matchday 23 is shaping up like this:

Healy, Best, Cole, Gray, Launchbury, O'Brien, Tipuric, Heaslip, Youngs, Sexton, North, Tuilagi, O'Driscoll, Ashton, Halfpenny

ENG: 5; IRL: 6; WAL: 3; SCO: 1

Strauss, Corbisiero, Jones, Ryan, Beattie, Care, Farrell, Kearney

ENG: 3; IRL: 3; WAL: 1; SCO: 1

danthefan

tolosenc wrote: »

It could open a door to a return to Leinster...

The IRFU wouldn't let Leinster offer Hines a new contract then, there's no chance now.

jm08

Fishooks13 wrote: »

I'm basing my opinion on more than one game, I think that much should be obvious.

By dynamic I mean:

Zebo is a better footballer, plain and simple. Huge left boot, the ability to adapt his attacking game to suit broken play (standing at first receiver and in the center as he's done for Munster and Ireland).

He's got more of an ability to create something from nothing than Visser imo. Better fielder too.

Not Visser is a big strong guy with a serious ability to finish. I'd take them both, but I think it's fair to say that Zebo has a bit more all round footballing ability.

Zebo is superb at reclaiming restarts. Munster scored about 3 tries against Northampton that came from Zebo reclaims. Has to be said ROG is pretty good at putting them up there as well!

Dublin Red Devil

Based on the 6 nations so far

1 Healy
2 Best
3 Cole
4 Gray
5 Launchbury
6 O'Brian
7 Robshaw
8 Heaslip
9 Youngs
10 Farrell
11 North
12 Roberts
13 O' Driscoll
14 Ashton
15 Halfpenny

.ak

Just for fun, based on this week's performances...

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Cole
4. Gray
5. Launchbury
6. POM
7. Robshaw
8. Beattie
9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. Maitland
12. D'Arcy
13. Scott
14. North
15. Halfpenny

Hype710

Sam Warburton's captaincy odds have lengthened massively, knew I should have backed against him! Bookies indicating a two horse race between Robshaw and BOD, with Robshaw now the favourite after the weekend. Rory Best's odds have shortened slightly, fifth favourite after Heaslip and Warburton.

Leslie91

Parling > Launchbury even before Lenihan slobbered all over him yesterday. Gray not looking like a 2nd row started for me yet but he has all the tools.

Best might be the best option for captain ironically in that he is the only one of the prospective captains looking like he is guaranteed his place. While he seems like a much quieter version of a captain than most, he is extremely well respected as a leader of men.