British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

ongarite

This could be a blessing in disguise for Irish provinces next season.
The poor international performances will likely mean many will get a proper pre-season now.

thomond2006

It definitely hurts the national teams anyway, France have won the championship in the Six Nations after the last four Lions Tours.

Swiwi

...and the Australian view for this week...no Irish in the team this week

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/manu-mountain-tuilagi-is-trouble-for-wallabies-20130225-2f1jb.html

Tox56

Swiwi wrote: »

...and the Australian view for this week...no Irish in the team this week

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/manu-mountain-tuilagi-is-trouble-for-wallabies-20130225-2f1jb.html

It's not all bad in BBC's Lions report:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21578537

Then again, Luke Marshall's introduction to Test rugby could swiftly see him elevated to a potential 'bolter'. If the 21-year-old Irish centre's mis-timed pass after the second of his two line breaks cost a try, the footwork and acceleration which took him between Scotland's Ruaridh Jackson and Matt Scott for his first marked him out as a player of genuine talent.

Luke Marshall for the Lions!

Swiwi

Tox56 wrote: »

It's not all bad in BBC's Lions report:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21578537



Luke Marshall for the Lions!

Well there are no standout 2nd fives, unless you count solid Barritt and battering ram Roberts, so if Marshall can string another 2 good games together, especially v Fofana, then he could well be a bolter, with tour warm-up games given to see if he can press his claims for the 1st test.

captbarnacles

Swiwi wrote: »

...and the Australian view for this week...no Irish in the team this week

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/manu-mountain-tuilagi-is-trouble-for-wallabies-20130225-2f1jb.html

I will be astonished if Halfpenny isn't the Lions 15.

Swiwi

captbarnacles wrote: »

I will be astonished if Halfpenny isn't the Lions 15.

Me too, it's the writer's form XV each week, not the team he would actually choose if he could. Still, I would probably have had 1/2P ahead of Goode, but then Goode did all that was asked of him v France, he certainly is excellent at positional play.

danthefan

Swiwi wrote: »

Me too, it's the writer's form XV each week, not the team he would actually choose if he could. Still, I would probably have had 1/2P ahead of Goode, but then Goode did all that was asked of him v France, he certainly is excellent at positional play.

Swiwi - we discussed Heaslip before the 6N, I insisted he'd be going on tour. I think there are huge doubts over that now, will hold my hands up here.

thomond2006

Jim Hamilton wrecked Ireland's lineout, could be an option if he continues in that vein of form.

Tox56

Swiwi wrote: »

Well there are no standout 2nd fives, unless you count solid Barritt and battering ram Roberts, so if Marshall can string another 2 good games together, especially v Fofana, then he could well be a bolter, with tour warm-up games given to see if he can press his claims for the 1st test.

Fofana will be a great test for him now that you mention it. Shame one of Jackson or Madigan didn't play last week and really make a big statement, outhalf is wide open for a bolter, too late now for an Irish one though

Swiwi

danthefan wrote: »

Swiwi - we discussed Heaslip before the 6N, I insisted he'd be going on tour. I think there are huge doubts over that now, will hold my hands up here.

Cheers Dan. I try and keep and open mind, but it's been a disappointing 6N for him to date. I thought his general play wasn't too bad in the weekend, but obviously any thoughts of Lions captaincy have gone. His main problem is that players such as Foletau, Beattie, and the English loosies are all starting to find form. I think he needs a massive game v Picamoles to keep himself in the mix, especially as he is unlikely to face-off v Parisse in Rome.

I was a bit depressed on Sunday, after such a promising start to the 6N, Irish players seem to be falling off the radar, either thru form, injury, or suspension at a rate of knots.

One good thing is that I think WG will have the ability to pick the right players, irrespective of national team form, so even if Ireland doesn't impress in the last 2 games, hopefully a decent number of Irish players will be on the plane. I hope WG takes Tommy Bowe, despite his recent injury; on the other hand, I think Stephen Ferris is too much of a risk.

phog

If any Irish player was playing for Lions selection yesterday instead of playing international rugby then they probably just played themselves out of first team selection, I didn't see anyone hold their hand up for selection, too many poor decisions or unforced errors.

RobbieRuns

I still think that Rob Kearney makes the team ahead of halfpence, even if the eejit ran into the back of Mike Ross!!!!!

danthefan

So here's my thoughts at the moment, will take most of the Irish players in/around the international side. Feel free to disagree.

Healy - will tour, may start
Best - will tour, may start
Ross - won't tour, may be called up in case of injury
DOC - just no
McCarthy - no
Ryan - will make a shortlist but may be edged out and miss out on touring
POC - won't make it back in time, would have toured if fit
SOB - should tour, possibly bench for tests
POM - no
Heaslip - doing himself no favours in this 6N, possibly will miss out on tour
Ferris - would have toured if fit, won't now
Henderson - potential bolter if he puts in a strong showing between now and April
Murray - doubt he'll tour, not impossible though
Sexton - will tour, fighting with Farrell for starting spot, is the better player
BOD - think he might tour on reputation, not having a great 6N
Marshall - potential bolter but I think the competition in centre will be too strong
D'Arcy - no
Gilroy - potential bolter, will just miss out
Zebo - injury has probably ruined his chances considering how competitive the wing spots are
Kearney - I think he'll tour but 1/2p in pole position for tests
Earls - no
Fitz - not enough time to play himself into the tour
ROG - :pac:

jamiedav2011

Based on the 6N so far, my team would be something like:

Healy, Best, Cole, Parling, Hamilton/Ryan, SOB, Robshaw (c), Faletau, Youngs, Sexton, Zebo/Cuthbert, Davies, Tuilagi, North, Halfpenny

Lot of change there to what I would have forecasted at the start of the tournament.

Hype710

On your point about the wing slots Dan I don't think they're as competitive as you make out. Ashton is playing himself out of contention and he, like Visser, have serious defensive deficiencies. Cuthbert and North will both likely tour but are too similar for the test team IMO. I'd say Gatland will be very intrigued by Bowe's fitness in the knowledge that he has the warm up games to get properly match fit. I think Gilroy's chances are quite good at the minute.

danthefan

Hype710 wrote: »

On your point about the wing slots Dan I don't think they're as competitive as you make out. Ashton is playing himself out of contention and he, like Visser, have serious defensive deficiencies. Cuthbert and North will both likely tour but are too similar for the test team IMO. I'd say Gatland will be very intrigued by Bowe's fitness in the knowledge that he has the warm up games to get properly match fit. I think Gilroy's chances are quite good at the minute.

Yeah possibly. I haven't really thought about how the squad will be made up but is there room for three guys who can only play wing? He might opt for someone like Mike Brown who is a pretty decent player and can play wing and fullback to a high enough standard.

Hype710

On Marshall, I think the Lions are missing a trick if they don't bring a ball playing 12 like him, Twelvetrees or Beck if he was fit. I don't know how many centres they plan on taking but there isn't a huge amount of variety in the games that Roberts and Barritt, especially, play. Roberts has been nullified time and time again by the Australian defence so I hope Gatland and co. are keeping their options open.

Hype710

danthefan wrote: »

Yeah possibly. I haven't really thought about how the squad will be made up but is there room for three guys who can only play wing? He might opt for someone like Mike Brown who is a pretty decent player and can play wing and fullback to a high enough standard.

In 2009 you had Bowe, Monye, Williams, Halfpenny and Fitzgerald. Versatility is important as you say, Fitz played a game at 12 and Bowe played the final test at 13 on that tour. Personally I'd take 3 full backs where Halfpenny would cover wing and 4 wingers. North and Bowe are relatively versatile.

danthefan

You've Hogg as well who's a damn good player, could be really effective on a quick dry pitch.

Coburger

danthefan wrote: »

You've Hogg as well who's a damn good player, could be really effective on a quick dry pitch.

Hey, what about O'Connell, Ferris, Bowe - does anyone think these currently injured players will be taken along? I wonder if Wilkinson will get a seat for the plane as well

CIARAN_BOYLE

Coburger wrote: »

Hey, what about O'Connell, Ferris, Bowe - does anyone think these currently injured players will be taken along? I wonder if Wilkinson will get a seat for the plane as well

I'd say Ferris won't play again this season so definitely not. Bowe and POC would be maybes imo depending on fitness and form and others.

Swiwi

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I'd say Ferris won't play again this season so definitely not. Bowe and POC would be maybes imo depending on fitness and form and others.

Out of interest, when was the last time POC played? I would think he must be just about out of the running by now?

Deano7788

Swiwi wrote: »

Out of interest, when was the last time POC played? I would think he must be just about out of the running by now?

Edinburgh in October (his only matches this season are that and Racing Metro the week before). I don't think he has a chance, there's a good few 2nd rows playing well at the moment.

penybont exile

RobbieRuns wrote: »

I still think that Rob Kearney makes the team ahead of halfpence, even if the eejit ran into the back of Mike Ross!!!!!

At the moment Rob Kearney will struggle to make the tour never mind the test team.

Halfpenny & Hogg as FB.

I see Mike Brown as winger & and cover for 15.

Then 4 more wingers Cuthbert, North, Zebo and Bowe if proven fit.

Dublin Red Devil

The could be an All-Scottish 2nd Row, Hamilton and Gray.

Swiwi

I have finally given in, and will add my Lions XV to the multitude on the forum...however, I will justify my choices...and look back in a few months and see how I did! Backs tonight!

15. Stuart Hogg
I'm a huge fan of Leigh Halfpenny, and he makes my team on the wing. However, his only "flaw", if you can call it that, is maybe a lack of a running game, and that's where Stuart Hogg has been most impressive this season, carrying on from the standards set by Rob Kearney last season. He also seems safe under the high ball, generally positionally sound, and has a reasonable boot. However, I won't be surprised to see Halfpenny at 15.

14. Alex Cuthbert
It's been a bit hard to judge the Welsh wings of late, given the Welsh team performances, but I find Cuthbert to run better lines than North. I don't rate Visser, who would be targeted by the Aussies positionally I feel, and the English wings have hardly set the world on fire. However, this is by no means certain for me, and both Tommy Bowe and Craig Gilroy are considerations. I reckon Gilroy could be a definite bolter for the squad. In my opinion, Zebo needs more time to refine his game. I haven't considered Maitland, I mean come on, the guy's more Kiwi than me!

13. Manu Tualagi
I thought about keeping BOD at 13, and once again I won't be surprised if WG chooses BOD or even Jonathan Davies at 13, but there's nothing like raw Polynesian power in the backline (especially running at Quade Cooper) to get over the advantage line. He's not the finished product, has no kicking game of note (so definitely wouldn't put at 12), but he's my preferred battering ram to the more limited Jamie Roberts.

12. BOD
I guess a bit of a risk, but there are currently no standout 12s for the Lions (if only Fofana was available...). I'm not a fan of Roberts, Barritt is solid but hardly dynamic and a bit of a Tualagi clone, Twelvetrees has only been seen once, the Scottish midfield can't tackle, and Luke Marshall is just too new to the scene to risk in a first Lions test, where forward passes such as seen on Saturday could be very costly. BOD is one of the greatest players ever, still has a range of skills, and his loss of pace is less important at 12. Definitely open for debate, though.

11. Leigh Halfpenny
With Hogg taking the 15 spot, Leigh moves to wing. He would also be my goalkicker ahead of Sexton, he's metronomic. Modern wings generally need to be secure under the high ball, defensively sound, and have a cultured boot, and Leigh ticks all the boxes. Obviously also covers 15 in case of injury.

10. Jonny Sexton
I think JS is more WGs style of 10, he would definitely be preferred in NZ to Farrell. I wasn't impressed by the non-playing sides of Farrell's game in the weekend. Stroppy petulance could be costly for the Lions. With Halfpenny taking the kicks at goal, Johnny is free to concentrate on running the backline.

9. Ben Youngs
Rounding out the backs is the English scrumhalf. It's weird to see England sporting 2 dynamic running scrumhalves, but Youngs & Care look the business. Phillips is turgid these days (Wales' answer to Jimmy Cowan), don't get me started on the Scottish halfbacks, and I don't think Murray has met their standard, definitely not in the weekend where he was relatively poor.

Tox56

Not a bad effort Swiwi but I think you've got your centres the wrong way round. While you might worry for BOD's pace at 13, I'd worry about Tuilagi's distribution and overall creativity. Tuilagi can't kick but neither could Roberts (D'Arcy isn't famed for it either), and I think he'd be a good 12 with BOD outside him. Roberts-BOD worked very well in 2009, and Tuilagi could be just as effective if not more so.

Swiwi

Tox56 wrote: »

Not a bad effort Swiwi but I think you've got your centres the wrong way round. While you might worry for BOD's pace at 13, I'd worry about Tuilagi's distribution and overall creativity. Tuilagi can't kick but neither could Roberts (D'Arcy isn't famed for it either), and I think he'd be a good 12 with BOD outside him. Roberts-BOD worked very well in 2009, and Tuilagi could be just as effective if not more so.

Fair point! I think BOD made Roberts look good, running his beautiful lines off Roberts charge-ups. It also depends on what style WG wants to play. If he goes for the Eng/SA style of a big forward pack strangling the life out of a game, with a 10 kicking penalties, a solid midfield and wings putting up a succession of up and unders then he might go with Barritt et al in the midfield...

...however if he plays that style of game, he can kiss goodbye to an AB coaching job, and I wouldn't put it past a NZ crowd booing him

I'm confident he'll go with the running game that all Kiwis know & love, bolstered by a forward pack that will have the measure of the Aussies.

P.Walnuts

Swiwi wrote: »

I have finally given in, and will add my Lions XV to the multitude on the forum...however, I will justify my choices...and look back in a few months and see how I did! Backs tonight!

15. Stuart Hogg
I'm a huge fan of Leigh Halfpenny, and he makes my team on the wing. However, his only "flaw", if you can call it that, is maybe a lack of a running game, and that's where Stuart Hogg has been most impressive this season, carrying on from the standards set by Rob Kearney last season. He also seems safe under the high ball, generally positionally sound, and has a reasonable boot. However, I won't be surprised to see Halfpenny at 15.

14. Alex Cuthbert
It's been a bit hard to judge the Welsh wings of late, given the Welsh team performances, but I find Cuthbert to run better lines than North. I don't rate Visser, who would be targeted by the Aussies positionally I feel, and the English wings have hardly set the world on fire. However, this is by no means certain for me, and both Tommy Bowe and Craig Gilroy are considerations. I reckon Gilroy could be a definite bolter for the squad. In my opinion, Zebo needs more time to refine his game. I haven't considered Maitland, I mean come on, the guy's more Kiwi than me!

13. Manu Tualagi
I thought about keeping BOD at 13, and once again I won't be surprised if WG chooses BOD or even Jonathan Davies at 13, but there's nothing like raw Polynesian power in the backline (especially running at Quade Cooper) to get over the advantage line. He's not the finished product, has no kicking game of note (so definitely wouldn't put at 12), but he's my preferred battering ram to the more limited Jamie Roberts.

12. BOD
I guess a bit of a risk, but there are currently no standout 12s for the Lions (if only Fofana was available...). I'm not a fan of Roberts, Barritt is solid but hardly dynamic and a bit of a Tualagi clone, Twelvetrees has only been seen once, the Scottish midfield can't tackle, and Luke Marshall is just too new to the scene to risk in a first Lions test, where forward passes such as seen on Saturday could be very costly. BOD is one of the greatest players ever, still has a range of skills, and his loss of pace is less important at 12. Definitely open for debate, though.

11. Leigh Halfpenny
With Hogg taking the 15 spot, Leigh moves to wing. He would also be my goalkicker ahead of Sexton, he's metronomic. Modern wings generally need to be secure under the high ball, defensively sound, and have a cultured boot, and Leigh ticks all the boxes. Obviously also covers 15 in case of injury.

10. Jonny Sexton
I think JS is more WGs style of 10, he would definitely be preferred in NZ to Farrell. I wasn't impressed by the non-playing sides of Farrell's game in the weekend. Stroppy petulance could be costly for the Lions. With Halfpenny taking the kicks at goal, Johnny is free to concentrate on running the backline.

9. Ben Youngs
Rounding out the backs is the English scrumhalf. It's weird to see England sporting 2 dynamic running scrumhalves, but Youngs & Care look the business. Phillips is turgid these days (Wales' answer to Jimmy Cowan), don't get me started on the Scottish halfbacks, and I don't think Murray has met their standard, definitely not in the weekend where he was relatively poor.

Halfpenny's flaw is a lack of a running game so you put him on the wing? Hmmm.....

He's nailed on as starting 15 IMO.

Tuilagi will be 13

12 between Roberts and Barritt I think

Wings too tough to call right now but I would say maybe North, Cuthbert, Ashton and Bowe.